accepted, cold feet

[badasshairday]

I am having a (sort of) similar dilemma and it's really worrying me:

At the end of my freshman year (I'm now a junior), I decided I was going to pursue medicine. After volunteering for 100's of hours, keeping up a 3.7+ GPA, collecting five LORs, doing research, and scoring a 33 on the MCAT, now that application time is coming up in a month or so, I'm really starting to second guess myself.

I'm not going to lie: most of this has to with consistent opinions I've heard from current physicians/residents warning me not to go into medicine (declining salaries, lawsuit culture, bad hours, stress, 7+ years of education, debt, virtually no autonomy, etc...) Most of them mentioned that while it's not so bad right now, if current trends continue, things will not be good at all in eight years. The idealism of being a physician is starting to fade and reality is starting to settle in.

I guess I'm going to have to think this through long and hard.

Any suggestions? Advice?

Seriously, I am having the same issues. If current physicians and residents are commenting about the negative trends and how medicine sucks, it scares me that I might not like it. How do we really know we will like it? Shadowing a doctor or wheeling around patients in the ER is completely different from actually being a practicing physician. If I'm going to be practicing a profession for 30-40 years of my life and spending 60+ hours a week at it, I really hope I like it. What is life if you really don't like your job? It really is making me think about taking a second look at dentistry, considering how happy most dentists are. I just want to like my job.

Maybe I'm just falling for all these scare threads in pre-allo. They do have merit, but I think now I'm blocking myself out from the positives of being a physician.

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[deleted128318]

If this is true about yourself, congrats, but pre-med advisors have agreed with me. Getting back in after turning down an acceptance is an up-hill battle (exceptions-yes, the norm-no).

Give it a rest buddy. Do you talk with great numbers of pre-med advisors? Have they seen a blacklist or are they agreeing with the concept that it is a bad idea to turn down your only acceptance? Maybe their perspective is based on the hundreds of pre-meds they regularly deal with who aren't accepted anywhere...Your anecdotes, confined to examples where people didn't have the foresight to apply beyond their state borders, are not the word of god.

This is a decision from which you can't really deviate after the fact. You shouldn't be discouraging people from some diligent introspection about their aspirations... especially not based on an amorphous "blacklist." If an applicant is seriously considering doing this, call the AAMC regarding its implications on (possible) reapplication. Its too important to be deterred by "what ifs..".

My anecdote is of no more value than yours. I, however talked to the AAMC when I was in the position. You should be encouraging people to do the same, not fear-mongering.

 

[sciencebird]

If you want to talk to people who aren't bitter and love their jobs, talk to high school teachers. High pay, low work load, lots of respect from parents and students.

And if you want job security, boy, instead of hiring part-time faculty at about $3000 per course, community colleges love hiring full-time faculty who they pay well and give benefits to.

If I don't apply to medical school, I plan to get a Master's in Education and go on to become either a community college professor or high school teacher. However, seeing so many miserable physicians (and yes I know, there are many happy ones as well) really has me worried. I'd much rather make $60,000 and be happy rather than pursue an idealistic dream, make >$150,000 and be miserable.

 

[sciencebird]

If I wasn't going to med school, I think I'd be a librarian.

 

[Picklesali]

If you want to talk to people who aren't bitter and love their jobs, talk to high school teachers. High pay, low work load, lots of respect from parents and students.

And if you want job security, boy, instead of hiring part-time faculty at about $3000 per course, community colleges love hiring full-time faculty who they pay well and give benefits to.

Oh the satire...

 

[ComicBookDude]

If you want to talk to people who aren't bitter and love their jobs, talk to high school teachers. High pay, low work load, lots of respect from parents and students.

And if you want job security, boy, instead of hiring part-time faculty at about $3000 per course, community colleges love hiring full-time faculty who they pay well and give benefits to.

Most high school teachers I know are much happier in general than the physicians I have talked to. Yes, they take crap from parents, difficult students, and administration, but at least high school teachers have a very powerful union and ~4 months a year to rest it off. In my home state (IL), every public high school teacher's salary is listed on the internet and I was shocked at their pay. Most new teachers here make 55-60k (again, this is an 8-month contract). Those teaching a couple courses over the summer or doing other work can expect another 10-20k. Teachers in their last year were making well over 120k. Oh yes, and it's a M-F, 9-5 job with no call.

I'm not trying to glorify being a high school teacher. It's not nearly as respected or prestigious as being a physician. However, I want to keep all my options open. I appreciate your thought-out response to my obviously *****ic post.

 

[sciencebird]

No problem comicbookdude! I am around people who complain all the time. As further anecdotal evidence, all the physicians I know are much happier than the high school teachers.

Maybe a US news survey on least stressful careers can help you. According to them beign a professor is low-stress and fun! But everyone I knew aged prematurely and stressed about grants. So if you want to be dissuaded from a career, simply pick the right group of friends, which is easy, since most people like to complain.

I appreciate your thought-out response to my obviously *****ic post.

 

[annndyr]

I'm not going to lie: most of this has to with consistent opinions I've heard from current physicians/residents warning me not to go into medicine (declining salaries, lawsuit culture, bad hours, stress, 7+ years of education, debt, virtually no autonomy, etc...) Most of them mentioned that while it's not so bad right now, if current trends continue, things will not be good at all in eight years. The idealism of being a physician is starting to fade and reality is starting to settle in.

I guess I'm going to have to think this through long and hard.

Any suggestions? Advice?

My guess is that physicians have been saying this for the past 3 decades. Many people thought the advent of new technologies and pharmaceuticals would reduce the need for practicing clinicians in the 21st century, but that's obviously not the case.

I share some of the cold-feet sentiments with everyone else. To try and combat this, I do/will do a couple things:

1. Before starting school in the Fall, I will write down all of the reasons I chose a medical career and all of my anxieties. I'm hoping it will be something I can reference when times get tough and I question why I'm in medicine. Maybe like a personal journal of my path through medicine. You could even turn it into a public blog to make it interesting.

2. I remind myself that there's a life after medical school. Sure there are many years of schooling and loads of debt, but there's a light at the end of the tunnel. For me, I'd love to practice medicine, but I also want to utilize my B.S. in Engineering to design medical devices and work in business as well. I think this combination of clinical practice and engineering is where I will be most happy in the future. And if I keep my sights set on my high-level career goals, I can start to sort out and comprehend my reasons for subjectively torturing myself with 7+ more yrs of schooling.

I'm excitedly nervous to start in August...

 

[sciencebird]

Good ideas! I am also using this time to think things over. And also, life is long enough. You can get an MD and use your engineering background to design devises if you decide you don't like being a clinician. And the debt is high, but lots of people have debt, some from gambling, so in the scheme of things, it is not so bad. And there are only 2 years of classes, the rest is training.

My advice to someone with cold feet is to defer a year. It can be difficult to leave a program.

My guess is that physicians have been saying this for the past 3 decades. Many people thought the advent of new technologies and pharmaceuticals would reduce the need for practicing clinicians in the 21st century, but that's obviously not the case.

I share some of the cold-feet sentiments with everyone else. To try and combat this, I do/will do a couple things:

1. Before starting school in the Fall, I will write down all of the reasons I chose a medical career and all of my anxieties. I'm hoping it will be something I can reference when times get tough and I question why I'm in medicine. Maybe like a personal journal of my path through medicine. You could even turn it into a public blog to make it interesting.

2. I remind myself that there's a life after medical school. Sure there are many years of schooling and loads of debt, but there's a light at the end of the tunnel. For me, I'd love to practice medicine, but I also want to utilize my B.S. in Engineering to design medical devices and work in business as well. I think this combination of clinical practice and engineering is where I will be most happy in the future. And if I keep my sights set on my high-level career goals, I can start to sort out and comprehend my reasons for subjectively torturing myself with 7+ more yrs of schooling.

I'm excitedly nervous to start in August...

 

[MossPoh]

One thing to add. You can't look at the current trends as constant for the next 10 years. There WILL be a breaking point and things will get better. There are two problems that kind of magnify things. First off, the old school didn't have to deal with this. It was the glory days. Watching it happen after a 30 year span is a bitter pill. Second, while there are groups such as the AMA and what not, physicians are not a very cohesive group. They sit there and whine but they don't get together and say "ENOUGH!". There will be point when that changes. I feel we should take a note from the German doctors, who are actually unionized. If there are unacceptable conditions, pay, hours, whatever..They strke (it is a bit more complicated than that...but that is the gist). It makes it a little easier when the medicine is socialized, but you'd be surprised at how effective a cohesive group of physicians across all specialities can be. (They also make more money than americans give them credit for.) As it is now, physicians are a bunch of little splinter cells floating around. They might fight for numero uno, but when there are thousands fighting for numero uno and not for the group it all sounds like white noise.

 

[MossPoh]

Until just this past season, TMDSAS mandated only 1 acceptance/student. You submitted a rank-order list like residency. 1 acceptance is all you get. Any other ideas?

If this is true about yourself, congrats, but pre-med advisors have agreed with me. Getting back in after turning down an acceptance is an up-hill battle (exceptions-yes, the norm-no).

It is usually an acceptance and a matriculation. There isn't some magical list floating around with which schools offered acceptances to which students, or one that I heard of. The admissions process is cumbersome enough for the schools, let alone if they check to see if every applicant had a previous offer. Most people will not fault you for verifying whether you are dedicated to medicine or not. I am yet to trust ANY academic advisor, and premed advisors are the worst. They live in some world fabricated with dated information and rumors evidently. I've been told that one is forbidden to apply if they didn't finish all their pre-reqs. I've been told that a person with a 3.8+ and a 32 mcat stands no shot at getting in. I've been told a lot of things that are completely wrong by them. Texas is different with their system, but with regards to other states/schools, you are rarely going to be blacklisted. I think they might respect getting your priorities straight.

 

[annndyr]

Totally off-topic: I thought there were laws in the U.S. forbidding the creation of medical unions (or, physician 'collusion' sp?). Can anyone weigh in on this?​

One thing to add. You can't look at the current trends as constant for the next 10 years. There WILL be a breaking point and things will get better. There are two problems that kind of magnify things. First off, the old school didn't have to deal with this. It was the glory days. Watching it happen after a 30 year span is a bitter pill. Second, while there are groups such as the AMA and what not, physicians are not a very cohesive group. They sit there and whine but they don't get together and say "ENOUGH!". There will be point when that changes. I feel we should take a note from the German doctors, who are actually unionized. If there are unacceptable conditions, pay, hours, whatever..They strke (it is a bit more complicated than that...but that is the gist). It makes it a little easier when the medicine is socialized, but you'd be surprised at how effective a cohesive group of physicians across all specialities can be. (They also make more money than americans give them credit for.) As it is now, physicians are a bunch of little splinter cells floating around. They might fight for numero uno, but when there are thousands fighting for numero uno and not for the group it all sounds like white noise.

 

[TexPre-Med]

Almost all physicians have told me similar things and have added that if you're not in it to help people or you don't enjoy helping people, you need to hit the ejector button and pull out. And honestly, debt? Salaries? Come on.

For every one that hates it, there is one that loves it. For some, there is always a greener path.

 

[TexPre-Med]

Give it a rest buddy. Do you talk with great numbers of pre-med advisors? Have they seen a blacklist or are they agreeing with the concept that it is a bad idea to turn down your only acceptance? Maybe their perspective is based on the hundreds of pre-meds they regularly deal with who aren't accepted anywhere...Your anecdotes, confined to examples where people didn't have the foresight to apply beyond their state borders, are not the word of god.

This is a decision from which you can't really deviate after the fact. You shouldn't be discouraging people from some diligent introspection about their aspirations... especially not based on an amorphous "blacklist." If an applicant is seriously considering doing this, call the AAMC regarding its implications on (possible) reapplication. Its too important to be deterred by what ifs...

Now, seriously, Tex, give it a rest. My anecdote is of no more value than yours. I, however talked to the AAMC when I was in the position. You should be encouraging people to do the same, not fear-mongering.

I'm sorry but how does talking to the AAMC have any relation to how the dean of admissions at each individual school will view your application? Oh wait.....it won't.

 

[The Empiricist]

Wow this thread really took off. Thanks to all who gave the encouragement and advice. Thanks also to those who validated my concerns. Its nice to know I'm not alone.

please give up your acceptance and let someone who is truly passionate about medicine and eager to attend medical school. you'll do a huge service to the human race

You'll note I never said I wasn't passionate about medicine. In fact, the thing that draws me most to medicine is that I'll be able to do something with my job that contributes positively to society. My trepidation stems from my wondering whether this satisfaction is worth the sacrifice in terms of time, money, stress, and lifestyle. (And yes, I can be passionate about something yet be unsure of whether it is worth it.) If it wasn't for the fact that medicine continues to seduce my idealistic side, I'd have bolted for my other option long ago.

You could always start and if the urge to try out another path persists, you could take a leave of absence. I know one person who did just that, and then came back to med school realizing that it was the right choice.

That's a good idea. However, I would rather decide before entering med school if that's possible. That tuition and debt adds up quickly!

I am having a (sort of) similar dilemma and it's really worrying me:

...

I'm not going to lie: most of this has to with consistent opinions I've heard from current physicians/residents warning me not to go into medicine (declining salaries, lawsuit culture, bad hours, stress, 7+ years of education, debt, virtually no autonomy, etc...) Most of them mentioned that while it's not so bad right now, if current trends continue, things will not be good at all in eight years. The idealism of being a physician is starting to fade and reality is starting to settle in.

I guess I'm going to have to think this through long and hard.

Any suggestions? Advice?

You and I are in the same boat. Its hard to hear all these physicians telling us how bad it is, reading about a lot of the problems in healthcare, and not worry about it. I think the tendency for many of us is to discount their experiences ("oh, that won't be me" or "oh, they aren't REALLY passionate about medicine like I am"), but many of them were probably once just as starry-eyed, bushy-tailed, and sure of their decision as we are now. This is the trap I've been trying to avoid.

Overall, I think the best thing you can do is to talk to a lot of doctors in various stages of training and out in practice. Also, try to know yourself and how you think you will prioritize the competing demands for your time as you get older. Med school seems not quite so bad right now, while we're in our early/mid-20s and without a family. But how painful will it be being a resident with the accompanying financial situation and lifestyle when we're 30 and want to be able to buy a house and want to spend more time with our wife and kids. Trying to anticipate all this is what's making me think twice about medicine. Once we're in, we're pretty much in for life, so I want to make this decision now. So, it looks like I can't give you any answers, but I hope I left you with some new insight and good questions to ponder. Hope that helps!

My guess is that physicians have been saying this for the past 3 decades.

...

I think things were better for doctors in a very real way 3 decades ago. Doctors could expect to practice on a solo basis with a lot of autonomy and be free from the interference of managed care. Without insurance companies dictating reimbursements, medical school grads were much freer to choose the specialties they liked as opposed to whichever would best help them pay back their debt. The environment was much less litigious, they earned a lot more money, and had more respect. However, I think residency training was much more brutal back then. I've heard somewhere that the general surgery program at UCSF didn't take married people until the 1970s because of the amount of hours one was expected to devote to the program. (!!!) That said, residency training now isn't exactly a cakewalk. So my summary of it would be that it looks like training was worse back then, but the practice situation afterwards was much better. Am I right about this?

 

[sciencebird]

I don't know you, but if this is your reason, I would not go to medical school. If you do have a passion, you may contribute more to society by doing that. Or if you don't have a passion, just pick something then, and explore it. Because you probably will be able to persevere through medical school, but contibuting to society is a little abstract as a motive for a full-time job. There are plenty of ways to contibute to society.

the thing that draws me most to medicine is that I'll be able to do something with my job that contributes positively to society. My trepidation stems from my wondering whether this satisfaction is worth

 

[HeadMed]

My advice to the OP:

Go to med school for a year and see how you feel about it. While you are there get as much real clinic experience as you can.....literally ask to follow around a resident 24 hr/day during your winter or spring break. This should give you a real dose of what is involved in the field. This should at least convince you whether medicine is your passion (that and hopefully enjoying some of the curriculum....but you WILL NOT like all of it).

Also, concurrently, explore your options in this other field. That is, apply and interview for a spot such that you have an option.

 

[The Empiricist]

I don't know you, but if this is your reason, I would not go to medical school. If you do have a passion, you may contribute more to society by doing that. Or if you don't have a passion, just pick something then, and explore it. Because you probably will be able to persevere through medical school, but contibuting to society is a little abstract as a motive for a full-time job. There are plenty of ways to contibute to society.

Thanks for your input. What you say is exactly what I worry about - that my idealism is too flimsy too hold me up during the rough times. I should add, though, that its not that I want to contribute to society in just any way. Due to my intellectual interest in medicine, I wouldn't be as happy running an NGO as I would be treating patients. Also, I will admit that I prefer the job security and pay of a doctor compared to someone running an NGO or some other career I could go into that helps society.

 

[sciencebird]

Well, if you like several aspects of medicine, you are interested in health and like the job security and also want to help people, it may be a good decision to go. I persevered through grad school not because of passion, but because I thought it was the best thing to do at the time, so I'm sure you can survive the rough patches on idealism. I only meant that, if the main reason is because you want to contribute to society, I would't do it, because I believe you will contibute more in a job where your inerests lie. But if you have an interest in medicine, it seems to me there are many career options, from working in health insurance, to teaching, research, etc..

If you really have a strong vision of yourself looking back on your life, and wanting to know how you contributed, and you like medicine, I think that's ok. And if you're not a trust fund baby, you do need a job. I think it's ok to view medicine as a job, rather than a calling.

I really think you should defer a year, unless, I forget, if you wanted to go somewhere other than where you were accepted, then you could reapply.

Thanks for your input. What you say is exactly what I worry about - that my idealism is too flimsy too hold me up during the rough times. I should add, though, that its not that I want to contribute to society in just any way. Due to my intellectual interest in medicine, I wouldn't be as happy running an NGO as I would be treating patients. Also, I will admit that I prefer the job security and pay of a doctor compared to someone running an NGO or some other career I could go into that helps society.

 

[Doublecortin]

Some of you people are so bizarre, i hope I don't end up classmates with you. "do or die?" are you kidding? who says things like that?!


To the OP - I am in the same position as you. Serious cold feet. I've been accepted to 10 med schools so far, including hopkins (dumdumdum), but I feel open to a bunch of careers (finance, law, etc.) and am not 100% sure that the time commitment and debt involved in an MD are worth it. For now, I think I am going to proceed with med school, but I am continuing to think about (and explore) other options - there's nothing wrong with this. If you (or I) do end up in med school, that's just fine. There is so much complexity and so many factors tied to making a career decision that to declare one's self ABSOLUTELY SURE would indicate to me that the person making the decision is either intellectually simple and one-dimensional, or in denial. Feel free to PM me, but to everyone else, stop chastising this person for being open with himself (and with all of you) about his doubts and praise him for his honesty and the guts it takes to question a decision so late in the game.

jesus freakin' christ, dude!!! For the sake of your own carma, do everyone a favor and please drop all your acceptances so that they can go to people who are 100% dedicated to being an excellent physician, and go to law school or something

 

[Doublecortin]

Seriously though? Anecdotal evidence?

If it were so relevant, why would there not be a place to address this on your AMCAS, as there is with the issue of previous matriculation? What if you took an ice pick to the rib cage in a dive bar the day before school started and weren't able to matriculate?

I'm done pursuing this. If anyone is really worried about this, call the AAMC. They will placate you.

dude, , many 2ndaries I've filled out, specifically ask you if you've been accepted to med school before

 

[Doublecortin]

Bleh I disagree. If those people are so passionate about medicine, they didn't they become more prepared/have better credentials to out compete OP for his admission spot?

because not everybody can get luck on the MCAT or people might have extenuating circumstances for not having straight As

 

[ComicBookDude]

One thing to add. You can't look at the current trends as constant for the next 10 years. There WILL be a breaking point and things will get better. There are two problems that kind of magnify things. First off, the old school didn't have to deal with this. It was the glory days. Watching it happen after a 30 year span is a bitter pill. Second, while there are groups such as the AMA and what not, physicians are not a very cohesive group. They sit there and whine but they don't get together and say "ENOUGH!". There will be point when that changes. I feel we should take a note from the German doctors, who are actually unionized. If there are unacceptable conditions, pay, hours, whatever..They strke (it is a bit more complicated than that...but that is the gist). It makes it a little easier when the medicine is socialized, but you'd be surprised at how effective a cohesive group of physicians across all specialities can be. (They also make more money than americans give them credit for.) As it is now, physicians are a bunch of little splinter cells floating around. They might fight for numero uno, but when there are thousands fighting for numero uno and not for the group it all sounds like white noise.

1. It is illegal for physicians to form a union.

2. When there was a huge physician shortage in the 1970s, were more medical schools opened up? Reimbursements bumped up? Work hours improved? No - the government simply opened the floodgates for foreign physicians (and there are PLENTY waiting to come here). I'm guessing this is partly what is stopping huge protests/strikes etc.

 

[GreenShirt]

Here's the observations of an MS-I:

1) Pre-meds rarely get the chance to explore their interests b/c the drive to get into medical school is all-encompassing. SDN is full of posts by medical students who wonder "what if". However, after amassing a certain amount of debt pursing flights of fancy become less financially prudent and you become locked into the career path.
2) I have classmates in their 30s, 40s, and 50s and they are some of the most fascinating people I've meet because they've had an opportunity to do some exciting things in their lives (former chefs, models, teachers, helicopter medics, acupuncturists, ballroom dancers, artists, ministers, you name it).

Applying to medical school a second time around is something many people dread b/c of all the time, money, wondering, nail biting, etc. it entails. However, if your desire to pursue this other interest is worth that risk then I think you will be a more fulfilled person in the end. Medical school will always be waiting for you if you change your mind.

 

[135892]

because not everybody can get luck on the MCAT or people might have extenuating circumstances for not having straight As

Because its all about luck... right?

The person the school accepted is a better candidate, get over it

 

[deleted128318]

I'm sorry but how does talking to the AAMC have any relation to how the dean of admissions at each individual school will view your application? Oh wait.....it won't.

As the AAMC would tell you, that information is not explicitly made available to the deans of admission.

 

[deleted128318]

dude, , many 2ndaries I've filled out, specifically ask you if you've been accepted to med school before

I filled out 32 secondaries over 2 years and was never asked that question. For a school that asks that, you are probably screwed. I was asked on several whether I had matriculated anywhere.

 

[TexPre-Med]

It would be interesting to know how they would react to it, because as the AAMC would tell you, that information is not explicitly made availalbe to the deans of admission. Sweetheart.

B/w applications and secondaries, all of my apps specifically asked this question.

I filled out 32 secondaries over 2 years and was never asked that question. For a school that asks that, you are probably screwed. I was asked on several whether I had matriculated anywhere.

matriculate

noun
1. someone who has been admitted to a college or university

verb
1. enroll as a student

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

Kind of a fuzzy word isn't it.

 

[ThisIsYourLife]

Say what you will......but explain how 2 people can get over 10 interviews b/w the 2 of them, 2 acceptances in the first year, and 0 interviews over the next 5 years? They both have the numbers, their first 10 interviews prove this.

tell them not to check the box saying they matriculated.. because if they were only accepted and turned it down, it means absolutely nothing. schools only don't like when you have started school previously, dropped out, and are not reapplying.

 

[deleted128318]

matriculate

noun
1. someone who has been admitted to a college or university

verb
1. enroll as a student

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

Kind of a fuzzy word isn't it.

Have you previously matriculated to med school?

Re-word, as it is a verb, using your definition: Have you previously enrolled as a student in med school?

Where is the ambiguity again? Neither merriam-webster, nor wiki agree with your first definition, by the way. Matriculant is the noun, and it too refers to the enrollment in school with the intent of pursuing a degree.

I can't even believe you are trying to contend this... can you matriculate at multiple medical schools? No. Can you be accepted by multiple medical schools?

No fuzziness. It's not disingenuous to say that you haven't matriculated anywhere when you have been accepted, but decided not to enroll. There's a distinction for a reason on AMCAS, the AAMC does not view them in the same light. They specifically don't release your application histories because they don't think they are relevant. This includes past acceptances, so long as you don't matriculate at a school, then withdraw.

 

[DoctorDreamer]

Have you previously matriculated to med school?

Re-word, as it is a verb, using your definition: Have you previously enrolled as a student in med school?

Where is the ambiguity again? Neither merriam-webster, nor wiki agree with your first definition, by the way. Matriculant is the noun, and it too refers to the enrollment in school with the intent of pursuing a degree.

I can't even believe you are trying to contend this... can you matriculate at multiple medical schools? No. Can you be accepted by multiple medical schools?

No fuzziness. It's not disingenuous to say that you haven't matriculated anywhere when you have been accepted, but decided not to enroll. There's a distinction for a reason on AMCAS, the AAMC does not view them in the same light. They specifically don't release your application histories because they don't think they are relevant. This includes past acceptances, so long as you don't matriculate at a school, then withdraw.

I adore your sn. I wanted to marry Zach Morris.

 

[joyrunner]

OP, I think you are in good company as far as having doubts about medicine. It's a huge commitment, and while the opportunities inside the field are broad enough to attract people with diverse interests and talents, you are still pouring several years and a fortune into obtaining the education to be a doctor.
I was asked this in an interview: On a scale of 1-10, how sure are you that you want to be a doctor? I've thought about that question ever since, and while I'm fine with the answer I gave, I would now say that I would be a 9 without the fact that I'm committed to it. I'm not certain about many things about the career of a doctor, but at this point I'm committed to seeing it through, so I'm actually 10, absolutely sure that I want to be a doctor because I know that my commitment can help me push through the negative aspects.
I think in that way it is similar to marriage and parenthood. Nobody knows exactly what they're getting into when they start, but they I also think that while there is nothing wrong with exploring other options (it could be great actually), you will eventually come around to the question of whether you can commit.

 

[deleted128318]

I adore your sn. I wanted to marry Zach Morris.

We should team up and split him and Kelly up... I'm all about Ms. Kapowski.

 

[jult24er]

Some of you people are so bizarre, i hope I don't end up classmates with you. "do or die?" are you kidding? who says things like that?!


To the OP - I am in the same position as you. Serious cold feet. I've been accepted to 10 med schools so far, including hopkins (dumdumdum), but I feel open to a bunch of careers (finance, law, etc.) and am not 100% sure that the time commitment and debt involved in an MD are worth it. For now, I think I am going to proceed with med school, but I am continuing to think about (and explore) other options - there's nothing wrong with this. If you (or I) do end up in med school, that's just fine. There is so much complexity and so many factors tied to making a career decision that to declare one's self ABSOLUTELY SURE would indicate to me that the person making the decision is either intellectually simple and one-dimensional, or in denial. Feel free to PM me, but to everyone else, stop chastising this person for being open with himself (and with all of you) about his doubts and praise him for his honesty and the guts it takes to question a decision so late in the game.

Curios to know what someone who got into 10 med schools, including Hopkins, is interested in in law or finance.

 

[stickyfingers]

We should team up and split him and Kelly up... I'm all about Ms. Kapowski.

I had a sneaking suspicion that Mr. Belding had a thing for the underage Ms. Kelly! What a dirty old man!

 

[lex]

I've been lucky enough to be accepted to a med school this cycle, but I'm dealing with a major case of cold feet. There's a specific career path that I'm interested in that I never explored enough and I think it would be stupid to go to med school without trying it out first. How bad is it to turn down the acceptance, try it out, and if I still want to do medicine, apply again in a few years? Will this be seen as a major black mark?

Another option would be to defer, but I don't know if they're willing to let me defer to try out another career. I guess I could lie about why I want to defer...

You have two months to work out your issues before making that decision. Re-applying again is expensive and you may not get the same acceptance(s). Deferral is another option and it is okay to do so as long as you have a good reason for it. You can always tell the adcom that your experience during a year off will enrich whatever etc... But deferral requests may be rejected, too.

The bottom line is please do evaluate and re-evaluate your decision to become a doctor. Because once you're in it, you're in for good. Long hard work and committment. Make sure you have no regrets.

 

[Despina]

People on here have not explained how badly it will look to turn down this acceptance and try to re-apply. You are pretty-much (rare exceptions) never going to be accepted again. You are black-listed. On your application, you have to check a box that says you have been accepted to a medical school before when you re-apply. This kills you.

I know 2 people who have gone this route. Both received 5-6 interviews their first time around. Both were accepted. Both turned it down and have since re-applied. Combined they have 5 more years of re-applications filled. Combined they have 0 interviews in those 5 years.

Do what you will, but if you back away now, the odds of getting back to this position are incredibly small.

I have a friend who turned down his acceptance because his Mom fell ill right before he was supposed to start. Most schools, unfortunately, only will allow for deferrals if the reason relates to your own health or will enhance you as a student at their school (i.e. Fullbright Scholarship, Medical Mission Trip). My friend got into the school he turned down two application cycles later--Pitt-- and several more that he didn't get into the first time--UCSF. However, like I said he turned down the acceptance because of family stuff, not because he was doubting his career choice.

 

[Tachymeter]

The only thing that I really want to do beside medicine is be a writer. Thankfully I can still do that later even with medicine as a career.

 

[Bmore12]

Hey all, been looking around for a thread like this. I'm in the same sort of boat here, I'm essentially going to turn down my only acceptance this year, since I was so widely rejected and something was obviously wrong with my app. Here's my stats:

-3.95+GPA, double science major, humanities minor
-35 MCAT
-1 clinical/volunteer experience, in-depth shadowing for 1.5 yrs
-2 yrs. undergrad research, grants, thesis w/ citation, will publish in 6 months or so
-Leadership experience, founded own extracurricular group and have run it for 4 years
-1 service/volunteer experience, elementary school tutor (1 semester)

I applied too late and I need more clinical to be sure this is what I want to do (the shadowing experience was "hands off"), I'm going to do more varied things next year, EMT work, hospital volunteering, the works, to fill in the "human" gap in my application, and apply the minute the AMCAS can be submitted, not to mention more heavily edit my personal statement. I want to do this right, I'll be 100% rather than 90% certain this is what I want to do upon reapplying.

This seems to get very polarizing reactions from people (either "YOU ARE NEVER GETTING IN ANYWHERE ELSE ARRRRGH YOU FOOL *KABOOM*" or "follow your heart, reapply when you are ready, hugs and kisses XOXOX"), but my logic is that if I apply *extremely* widely, I'll be accepted *somewhere* when I reapply (a year from now). From two other people in this thread who have stories of this being possible, and from hearing of someone in my situation who got into WashU upon reapplying, I think this to be the right choice. There are 126 US schools, and I'd like to think that 1 of them wouldn't really take the trouble to contact the other 125 to throw a hex on me (especially for a valid reason). I'd really appreciate thoughts on this, it's turning me into a nervous wreck

 

[sunny1]

Hey all, been looking around for a thread like this. I'm in the same sort of boat here, I'm essentially going to turn down my only acceptance this year, since I was so widely rejected and something was obviously wrong with my app. Here's my stats:

-3.95+GPA, double science major, humanities minor
-35 MCAT
-1 clinical/volunteer experience, in-depth shadowing for 1.5 yrs
-2 yrs. undergrad research, grants, thesis w/ citation, will publish in 6 months or so
-Leadership experience, founded own extracurricular group and have run it for 4 years
-1 service/volunteer experience, elementary school tutor (1 semester)

I applied too late and I need more clinical to be sure this is what I want to do (the shadowing experience was "hands off"), I'm going to do more varied things next year, EMT work, hospital volunteering, the works, to fill in the "human" gap in my application, and apply the minute the AMCAS can be submitted, not to mention more heavily edit my personal statement. I want to do this right, I'll be 100% rather than 90% certain this is what I want to do upon reapplying.

This seems to get very polarizing reactions from people (either "YOU ARE NEVER GETTING IN ANYWHERE ELSE ARRRRGH YOU FOOL *KABOOM*" or "follow your heart, reapply when you are ready, hugs and kisses XOXOX"), but my logic is that if I apply *extremely* widely, I'll be accepted *somewhere* when I reapply (a year from now). From two other people in this thread who have stories of this being possible, and from hearing of someone in my situation who got into WashU upon reapplying, I think this to be the right choice. There are 126 US schools, and I'd like to think that 1 of them wouldn't really take the trouble to contact the other 125 to throw a hex on me (especially for a valid reason). I'd really appreciate thoughts on this, it's turning me into a nervous wreck

Are you really 90% certain right now that medicine is for you? Because I think a 10% uncertainty is normal and rational. Or do you just not like the school/want to get into somewhere more prestigious...?

What is the other career(s) you want to consider? That will help people give you better advice on here. Normally if you're not sure you want to do medicine you would try the other path too to see if you like it, in addition to learning more about medicine. I mean, you have to have something to compare it to, right?

 

[LizzyM]

How will you feel if a year from now if you are holding one waitlist and no offers?

How will you feel if a year from now you are holding no offers and no waitlists?

There is a possiblity that this could be the outcome of your second round. Are you willing to accept that risk?

If yes, go for it. If not, take the bird in hand and be grateful because half of all the applicants will not matriculate this year.

 

[Doublecortin]

Hey all, been looking around for a thread like this. I'm in the same sort of boat here, I'm essentially going to turn down my only acceptance this year, since I was so widely rejected and something was obviously wrong with my app. Here's my stats:

-3.95+GPA, double science major, humanities minor
-35 MCAT
-1 clinical/volunteer experience, in-depth shadowing for 1.5 yrs
-2 yrs. undergrad research, grants, thesis w/ citation, will publish in 6 months or so
-Leadership experience, founded own extracurricular group and have run it for 4 years
-1 service/volunteer experience, elementary school tutor (1 semester)

I applied too late and I need more clinical to be sure this is what I want to do (the shadowing experience was "hands off"), I'm going to do more varied things next year, EMT work, hospital volunteering, the works, to fill in the "human" gap in my application, and apply the minute the AMCAS can be submitted, not to mention more heavily edit my personal statement. I want to do this right, I'll be 100% rather than 90% certain this is what I want to do upon reapplying.

This seems to get very polarizing reactions from people (either "YOU ARE NEVER GETTING IN ANYWHERE ELSE ARRRRGH YOU FOOL *KABOOM*" or "follow your heart, reapply when you are ready, hugs and kisses XOXOX"), but my logic is that if I apply *extremely* widely, I'll be accepted *somewhere* when I reapply (a year from now). From two other people in this thread who have stories of this being possible, and from hearing of someone in my situation who got into WashU upon reapplying, I think this to be the right choice. There are 126 US schools, and I'd like to think that 1 of them wouldn't really take the trouble to contact the other 125 to throw a hex on me (especially for a valid reason). I'd really appreciate thoughts on this, it's turning me into a nervous wreck

Sir, are you friggin' insane??? Why would you turn down an acceptance to reapply???
I don't care how hideous the school you got into is, if you TRULY want to become a doctor, you WILL go there, period, end of story.

 

[wutwinb]

,

 

[Bmore12]

I definitely know some people who turned down acceptances after going through the whole application proccess. I guess it took the reality of an acceptance for them to figure out that medicine isn't for them. It's better to do it now then become 60K in debt when they quit after first year.

This is my rationale; to LizzyM, I accept this risk, and I feel the risk of going in not certain of my intentions is far greater than the risk of waiting a year and reapplying with a *stronger* application. To doublecortin, there have been several other people in this thread who express the same issues... As well as several friends of mine I who express the concern firsthand. It's a more widespread issue than you might suspect at first. And, on this subject, I say I should give up my acceptance for someone else *precisely* because I am having these qualms, where the next person on the waiting list is probably not, and most likely neurotic over what they will do next year. From my perspective, this would allow me to both do that next person a good deed, and not potentially waste my (and the med school's) resources in the meanwhile. The average matriculant age at many schools is 25... If I reapplied, I'd still be under this age upon matriculation, so I have time to explore my options.

I also recognize that many people have these last-minute doubts, as sunny pointed out. In my case, research would be the other choice, which I explored very heavily during undergrad. I think the issue is mainly that I want a few more clinical experiences under my belt to really be sure that my very heartfelt instinct driving me towards medicine is on the money.

This is an obviously polarizing subject, so I'd like to inject some facts into the debate. Between the time of the previous post and now, I found a dissertation on the subject of medical school acceptance profiles. For a 2-year period, '93-95, there were 96,347 first-time applicants, of which 40,267 were accepted (a 41.8% acceptance rate). During that same period, 2,497 reapplicants who had been previously accepted, also applied. Their acceptance numbers? 2,182 (87.4%). These rates are comparable for both groups across many such time periods, which suggests there is not such the "blacklist" as many paranoid pre-meds would suggest. Counting all other applicant types, this group only made up 1.9% of the applicant pool, but 4.2% of its accepted pool - a disproportionately large amount.

Thanks for feedback, everyone.

 

[tiedyeddog]

The ability to do well on tests does not translate to passion for medicine.

Hahah, but it DOES translate to passing boards/getting into medical school/getting a residency? I totally disagree with this. Super genius slackers exist but they aren't the majority of people who get good grades. The dude earned the right to hold those acceptances and then second guess. The only people who determines who "qualified" an application is is the adcom... It really doesn't matter otherwise.... If you can't get in then it doesn't matter how awesome of a doctor you could be.

 

[PrincipalVernon]

Hey all, been looking around for a thread like this. I'm in the same sort of boat here, I'm essentially going to turn down my only acceptance this year, since I was so widely rejected and something was obviously wrong with my app. Here's my stats:

-3.95+GPA, double science major, humanities minor
-35 MCAT
-1 clinical/volunteer experience, in-depth shadowing for 1.5 yrs
-2 yrs. undergrad research, grants, thesis w/ citation, will publish in 6 months or so
-Leadership experience, founded own extracurricular group and have run it for 4 years
-1 service/volunteer experience, elementary school tutor (1 semester)

I applied too late and I need more clinical to be sure this is what I want to do (the shadowing experience was "hands off&quot, I'm going to do more varied things next year, EMT work, hospital volunteering, the works, to fill in the "human" gap in my application, and apply the minute the AMCAS can be submitted, not to mention more heavily edit my personal statement. I want to do this right, I'll be 100% rather than 90% certain this is what I want to do upon reapplying.

This seems to get very polarizing reactions from people (either "YOU ARE NEVER GETTING IN ANYWHERE ELSE ARRRRGH YOU FOOL *KABOOM*" or "follow your heart, reapply when you are ready, hugs and kisses XOXOX&quot, but my logic is that if I apply *extremely* widely, I'll be accepted *somewhere* when I reapply (a year from now). From two other people in this thread who have stories of this being possible, and from hearing of someone in my situation who got into WashU upon reapplying, I think this to be the right choice. There are 126 US schools, and I'd like to think that 1 of them wouldn't really take the trouble to contact the other 125 to throw a hex on me (especially for a valid reason). I'd really appreciate thoughts on this, it's turning me into a nervous wreck

You, sir, are an idiot. Maybe you interviewed poorly, so what are you going to do next year- take interview lessons? Your stats can't be improved upon. Unless you got accepted to some Mickey Mouse DO school, you're an idiot for turning it down.

 

[Bmore12]

You, sir, are an idiot. Maybe you interviewed poorly, so what are you going to do next year- take interview lessons? Your stats can't be improved upon. Unless you got accepted to some Mickey Mouse DO school, you're an idiot for turning it down.

That I didn't get interviews at 90% of the schools I applied to suggests that *are* in fact aspects that can be improved upon. I applied late, and had some problems pointed out to me in my personal statement after the fact, not to mention that my clinical experience gave nowhere near the level of patient interaction most schools are looking for. If you read my above post, which it seems you have not, you would see that I do have some reservations about this the first time in that would be resolved upon my reapplication.

Thanks for reserving judgment, though. I picture you saying that with a monocle and top hat, deliiiiightful.

 

[LizzyM]

That I didn't get interviews at 90% of the schools I applied to suggests that *are* in fact aspects that can be improved upon. I applied late, and had some problems pointed out to me in my personal statement after the fact, not to mention that my clinical experience gave nowhere near the level of patient interaction most schools are looking for. If you read my above post, which it seems you have not, you would see that I do have some reservations about this the first time in that would be resolved upon my reapplication.

Thanks for reserving judgment, though. I picture you saying that with a monocle and top hat, deliiiiightful.

If you are unsure about medicine as a career, then yes, you should drop your offer and reapply once you've made a decision.

If you are dropping the offer and reapplying later this year because you feel you can "do better" you are dropping a sure thing for a maybe.

 

[Bmore12]

If you are unsure about medicine as a career, then yes, you should drop your offer and reapply once you've made a decision.

If you are dropping the offer and reapplying later this year because you feel you can "do better" you are dropping a sure thing for a maybe.

Having thought over this decision long and hard for over a month, I can probably say that it is a combination of both. I think reapplying is the best thing to do, and if it turns that sure thing into a maybe, so be it.

 

[gplex86]

So NO ONE here interviewed at a school and realized that they absolutely hated it? I know at least one school that, if accepted, I'm turning down. Even as my only acceptance.

I applied late and will do much better next year. Someone else can spend 4 years at that hellhole.

I have standards. Have some self-respect and go to a school you can live with.