Accepted to DO school and a bit apprehensive....

[NonTradMed]

Hi,

I've just been accepted into a DO school (with more acceptances to come hopefully!). I am very excited and relieved that I will at least have ONE place to go to next fall for medical school and will become a doctor someday, but I do feel a bit apprehensive about DOs.

Don't get me wrong, I have researched DOs to death. I've seen the match rates, the philosophy, OMM, and the similarity in training, however, the fact that my degree will be different makes kind of worried about the amount of 'discrimination' that a DO degree may carry as compared to an MD. I know that the the only difference between a DO and an MD education is the OMM and the slightly lower GPA and MCAT score upon entry (although both have been catching up recently). The DO school I'm hoping to get into only a two point MCAT difference with my state MD school and a two tenth of a difference in GPA so I know that the caliber of students and education I'll get will be the same.

However, how much would hospitals and clinics care that the school I went to, even though it offers a different degree, still produces physicians just as competent as any MD school?

And would they give DOs a lower starting salary or give preferential treatment to MD applicants because of perceived discrimination? I have seen no proof one way or another.

I understand that the constant demand for physicians means DOs will probably not be unemployed but in the hiearchal system that is medicine, I sometimes do feel a bit like I'm entering something that others will perceive as second class.

It seems a bit unfair as the schools I'm thinking about going to have the same class requirements as MDs, do the same rotations as MDs in town, and apply for similar residencies. Yet, I will have a degree that is considered unknown by the lay public and privately derided by some MDs who believe DO means I'm taking a shortcut/backdoor to medicine. I know that this should not bother me, but if this attitudes does exist in places where the hiring of DOs are affected, then it *does* bother me---at an economic level.

What is everyone else's opinion on this? Am I just seeing something that isn't there? For that matter...is this the right forum to ask this? Given good board scores and decent grades, will I still get the shaft if I compete for residencies and jobs? Anyone care to share their experiences? Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

You probably should have thought this through BEFORE you applied. Kind of pricey to be wishy-washy now, you know? Anyways, good luck.

 

[NonTradMed]

You probably should have thought this through BEFORE you applied. Kind of pricey to be wishy-washy now, you know? Anyways, good luck.

Well, I just want to become a doctor, so I have applied to both MD and DO schools to increase my chances to going in. No profession is without it's negative parts, I just want to make sure to know what they are before diving in. I figured it was a good idea to come with both eyes open. If nothing else, I would know what to expect in the near future.

 

[Megalofyia]

And would they give DOs a lower starting salary or give preferential treatment to MD applicants because of perceived discrimination? I have seen no proof one way or another.


It seems a bit unfair as the schools I'm thinking about going to have the same class requirements as MDs, do the same rotations as MDs in town, and apply for similar residencies.

I think you have answered your own questions here.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Hi,

I've just been accepted into a DO school (with more acceptances to come hopefully!). I am very excited and relieved that I will at least have ONE place to go to next fall for medical school and will become a doctor someday, but I do feel a bit apprehensive about DOs.

Don't get me wrong, I have researched DOs to death. I've seen the match rates, the philosophy, OMM, and the similarity in training, however, the fact that my degree will be different makes kind of worried about the amount of 'discrimination' that a DO degree may carry as compared to an MD. I know that the the only difference between a DO and an MD education is the OMM and the slightly lower GPA and MCAT score upon entry (although both have been catching up recently). The DO school I'm hoping to get into only a two point MCAT difference with my state MD school and a two tenth of a difference in GPA so I know that the caliber of students and education I'll get will be the same.

However, how much would hospitals and clinics care that the school I went to, even though it offers a different degree, still produces physicians just as competent as any MD school?

And would they give DOs a lower starting salary or give preferential treatment to MD applicants because of perceived discrimination? I have seen no proof one way or another.

I understand that the constant demand for physicians means DOs will probably not be unemployed but in the hiearchal system that is medicine, I sometimes do feel a bit like I'm entering something that others will perceive as second class.

It seems a bit unfair as the schools I'm thinking about going to have the same class requirements as MDs, do the same rotations as MDs in town, and apply for similar residencies. Yet, I will have a degree that is considered unknown by the lay public and privately derided by some MDs who believe DO means I'm taking a shortcut/backdoor to medicine. I know that this should not bother me, but if this attitudes does exist in places where the hiring of DOs are affected, then it *does* bother me---at an economic level.

What is everyone else's opinion on this? Am I just seeing something that isn't there? For that matter...is this the right forum to ask this? Given good board scores and decent grades, will I still get the shaft if I compete for residencies and jobs? Anyone care to share their experiences? Thanks!

No. The salary is the same, regardless of degree. You are hired as a physician. If you are a board certified physician, you are paid for that.

Not only is there no discrimination at hospitals from other staff, but many staff members prefer DO's because they can give them a little OMM on the side. In addition, it is well known by nursing staff that DO's have a better bedside manner.

There may be some problems in some areas, but just don't go there.

 

[Nate]

DOs are better in bed.

 

[dr.z]

DOs are better in bed.

 

[Kevbot]

DOs are better in bed.

He's single ladies

 

[Munchkin6245]

He's single ladies

Ohhhhh rawrrrr!

 

[DOtobe]

DOs are better in bed.

DOs do it in all three planes...

 

[beastmaster]

Hi,

I've just been accepted into a DO school

And would they give DOs a lower starting salary or give preferential treatment to MD applicants because of perceived discrimination?

Dude you're like 10+ years away from receiving a salary. Maybe by that time there will be a 3rd medical degree, someone for us to make fun of.

 

[LTrain1]

only go if you're sure you would want to do primary care. I know this is sdn and people will tell you d.o. neurosurgeons are a dime a dozen but the fact of the matter is getting any kind of competitive specialty will be an uphill climb. This also affects salary, as the average d.o. makes less than the average m.d. because d.o. students usually go on to lower paying specialties. While a d.o. ortho would make the same as an m.d. ortho there just aren't as many d.o. orthos.

 

[Thousandth]

Well, I just want to become a doctor, so I have applied to both MD and DO schools to increase my chances to going in. No profession is without it's negative parts, I just want to make sure to know what they are before diving in. I figured it was a good idea to come with both eyes open. If nothing else, I would know what to expect in the near future.

Read your own statment. I had the same viewpoint as you, Just want to be a doctor. Negatives are everywhere, certain MD schools wont let you rotate at them because we arent LCME accredited..fine just go somewhere else, plenty will. The line between DO's and MD's is shrinking rapidly. It will take some of the old die hards to leave active practice before the stigma will have a true chance of going away completley.

The question you should ask is "Am I ok with being a DO and explaining that to everyone?" . If not you will have problems your whole carrer regardless of if you get a residency at Johns Hopkins or at Bum F@#ked Hospital.

 

[Shodddy18]

DOs are better in bed.

I agree! OMT makes great foreplay

 

[ragda26]

Sure,
OMT is advancing.Schools vary in the amt of OMT they teach each week.

 

[NonTradMed]

only go if you're sure you would want to do primary care. I know this is sdn and people will tell you d.o. neurosurgeons are a dime a dozen but the fact of the matter is getting any kind of competitive specialty will be an uphill climb. This also affects salary, as the average d.o. makes less than the average m.d. because d.o. students usually go on to lower paying specialties. While a d.o. ortho would make the same as an m.d. ortho there just aren't as many d.o. orthos.

Ok, that was my original question---I just wanted to make sure that if I was to work as in peds, I'd get paid as much as the MD pediatrician. I don't plan on doing anything fancy---I like primary care (perhaps I'll change my mind once I see my student loans ), but I was worried that my DO degree would mean less money for the same type of work. That was my worry. I understand that top residencies are hard to get into, but I know I probably won't be able to get into them even if I go MD, so no loss there.

So, is it right to assume that while matching into top residencies may be difficult since most specialties are MD, that primary care sees no discrimination between DO and MD? And that once one gets into a residency program, that everyone is equal in the eyes of the Power That Be (in terms of compensation, promotion etc)?

Thanks!

 

[carn311]

Dude you're like 10+ years away from receiving a salary. Maybe by that time there will be a 3rd medical degree, someone for us to make fun of.

This just puts the immaturity in perspective...

 

[NonTradMed]

This just puts the immaturity in perspective...

What? I'm immature? I thought I had a legitimate question.....

 

[carn311]

What? I'm immature? I thought I had a legitimate question.....

NOOO...
The fact that any Allopathic premed, physician, or other professional would ever stoop to "making fun" of DOs. Your post made me realize that thats exactly what people do...make fun. Its amazing how people never grow up.

 

[NonTradMed]

NOOO...
The fact that any Allopathic premed, physician, or other professional would ever stoop to "making fun" of DOs. Your post made me realize that thats exactly what people do...make fun. Its amazing how people never grow up.

Hm, perhaps, but jerks exist in all fields. I have yet to find one where there aren't any nasty people.

I don't care so much about someone saying I'm not a 'real doctor' because I'm off by one letter (I'm past that pettiness at this point). I just want to make sure that the medical establishment doesn't think I deserve to be paid less than someone else with an MD doing the same thing. I'm not greedy, but I do have a sense of intrinsic fairness. It seems like most people don't think this is a big issue. Well, if it isn't, then it's not a big issue.

 

[LTrain1]

Ok, that was my original question---I just wanted to make sure that if I was to work as in peds, I'd get paid as much as the MD pediatrician. I don't plan on doing anything fancy---I like primary care (perhaps I'll change my mind once I see my student loans ), but I was worried that my DO degree would mean less money for the same type of work. That was my worry. I understand that top residencies are hard to get into, but I know I probably won't be able to get into them even if I go MD, so no loss there.

So, is it right to assume that while matching into top residencies may be difficult since most specialties are MD, that primary care sees no discrimination between DO and MD? And that once one gets into a residency program, that everyone is equal in the eyes of the Power That Be (in terms of compensation, promotion etc)?

Thanks!

correct, all things being equal an md ped gets paid the same as a d.o. ped

 

[Taus]

I'll 2nd that...you absolutely get paid the same $$ for doing the same job.

 

[misparas]

only go if you're sure you would want to do primary care. I know this is sdn and people will tell you d.o. neurosurgeons are a dime a dozen but the fact of the matter is getting any kind of competitive specialty will be an uphill climb.

I know that more than 50% of KCOM graduates specialize and about 50% of DMU grads. This is according to the USNews. You CAN specialize from a D.O. school. Only certain progams discriminate... and I personally wouldn't want to be a part of that type of elitest attitude. So that's no loss to me.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I know that more than 50% of KCOM graduates specialize and about 50% of DMU grads. This is according to the USNews. You CAN specialize from a D.O. school. Only certain progams discriminate... and I personally wouldn't want to be a part of that type of elitest attitude. So that's no loss to me.

There are DO residency programs in most areas anyway.

 

[Shinken]

Hi,

I've just been accepted into a DO school (with more acceptances to come hopefully!). I am very excited and relieved that I will at least have ONE place to go to next fall for medical school and will become a doctor someday, but I do feel a bit apprehensive about DOs.

Don't get me wrong, I have researched DOs to death. I've seen the match rates, the philosophy, OMM, and the similarity in training, however, the fact that my degree will be different makes kind of worried about the amount of 'discrimination' that a DO degree may carry as compared to an MD. I know that the the only difference between a DO and an MD education is the OMM and the slightly lower GPA and MCAT score upon entry (although both have been catching up recently). The DO school I'm hoping to get into only a two point MCAT difference with my state MD school and a two tenth of a difference in GPA so I know that the caliber of students and education I'll get will be the same.

However, how much would hospitals and clinics care that the school I went to, even though it offers a different degree, still produces physicians just as competent as any MD school?

And would they give DOs a lower starting salary or give preferential treatment to MD applicants because of perceived discrimination? I have seen no proof one way or another.

I understand that the constant demand for physicians means DOs will probably not be unemployed but in the hiearchal system that is medicine, I sometimes do feel a bit like I'm entering something that others will perceive as second class.

It seems a bit unfair as the schools I'm thinking about going to have the same class requirements as MDs, do the same rotations as MDs in town, and apply for similar residencies. Yet, I will have a degree that is considered unknown by the lay public and privately derided by some MDs who believe DO means I'm taking a shortcut/backdoor to medicine. I know that this should not bother me, but if this attitudes does exist in places where the hiring of DOs are affected, then it *does* bother me---at an economic level.

What is everyone else's opinion on this? Am I just seeing something that isn't there? For that matter...is this the right forum to ask this? Given good board scores and decent grades, will I still get the shaft if I compete for residencies and jobs? Anyone care to share their experiences? Thanks!

(edited)

Never mind. Good luck to you.

 

[primadonna22274]

No no no, less money for the (very nearly) same work goes to the PAs.
Our top-producing pediatrician is a DO and if I had kids, he'd be the one I'd take my kids to. Just awesome.
Lisa PA-C

Ok, that was my original question---I just wanted to make sure that if I was to work as in peds, I'd get paid as much as the MD pediatrician. I don't plan on doing anything fancy---I like primary care (perhaps I'll change my mind once I see my student loans ), but I was worried that my DO degree would mean less money for the same type of work. That was my worry. I understand that top residencies are hard to get into, but I know I probably won't be able to get into them even if I go MD, so no loss there.

So, is it right to assume that while matching into top residencies may be difficult since most specialties are MD, that primary care sees no discrimination between DO and MD? And that once one gets into a residency program, that everyone is equal in the eyes of the Power That Be (in terms of compensation, promotion etc)?

Thanks!

 

[CatsandCradles]

I know that more than 50% of KCOM graduates specialize and about 50% of DMU grads. This is according to the USNews. You CAN specialize from a D.O. school. Only certain progams discriminate... and I personally wouldn't want to be a part of that type of elitest attitude. So that's no loss to me.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but aren't there are some DO residency programs that an MD can't apply to either? There are some orthopedic programs that are DO only, but like thier allopathic counterparts, are very difficult to get into - I think.

But NonTradMed, I can understand that kind of uneasiness. I mean, before I ever went to college, I had never heard of a DO. So in all do respects, I also had some second doubts.

In the end, I wanted to be a doctor so much that I said to myself I didn't care about the initials behind my name. Do I expect to face some sort of discrimination? Yes. But in the end, I'll be able to go overseas (to some countries) and be able to serve those who are in need of care.

Who knows! Maybe it's a blessing that DO schools have somewhat lower scores- it'll enable more ideal people into the field that is usually dominated by elitist.


Know matter what happens, I wish you the best,

C&C

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

Hi,
And would they give DOs a lower starting salary or give preferential treatment to MD applicants because of perceived discrimination? I have seen no proof one way or another.

I just rec'd a recruiting letter for a program director position in Internal Medicine...starting salary was 55k, but I know for a fact that allos get WAY more (about 100k more to be exact). In fact 4th year residents almost make that much.

I think there is a growing trend among hospitals toward compensating DOs far less than their MD counterparts. Not sure why that is, but if I had to take a stab at it I would guess that people are beginning to catch on to the whole 'back door' thing.

 

[Fermata]

I think there is a growing trend among hospitals toward compensating DOs far less than their MD counterparts. Not sure why that is, but if I had to take a stab at it I would guess that people are beginning to catch on to the whole 'back door' thing.

You can't compensate them for less considering that they use the same coding for procedures, etc.

 

[priu]

Let's suppose we say that this backdoor concept is true. DO's are able to get into residencies that people otherwise couldn't if there were no DO schools. Let's take a closer look... we have people with, on average, lower *numerical* stats matriculating into DO schools... and then they (or at least some) are able to perform just as well if not better than their MD counterparts in obtaining residencies (concerning board exams, letters of recommendation, and whatnot). The neocons of the MD world notice this, and perpetuate bias against the DO approach.


What does this tell me?

This whole elitist physician training system is !@##!$%^#&!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Taus]

people....relax....he's obviously kidding....you aren't going to find any physicians in the US making 55k....and it would be tough to find one making less then 100k...

 

[priu]

What angers me is the fact that this "backdoor" approach is looked down upon when it actually produces physicians that are just as good if not better than the system that perpetuates this bias against DOs. My whole response was based on the "backdoor approach" attitude.

 

[Taus]

What angers me is the fact that this "backdoor" approach is looked down upon when it actually produces physicians that are just as good if not better than the system that perpetuates this bias against DOs. My whole response was based on the "backdoor approach" attitude.

fair enough....though usually when people make posts like above its because they know they will get a "rise" out of people...

 

[JMC_MarineCorps]

fair enough....though usually when people make posts like above its because they know they will get a "rise" out of people...

Indeed. The actual offer was for 180K, but I thought I would get a few laughs out of it first.

Ain't nothing wrong with the backdoor baby!

Get in where you fit in.

 

[stookie]

Dude you're like 10+ years away from receiving a salary. Maybe by that time there will be a 3rd medical degree, someone for us to make fun of.

How about naturopathic doctors?

 

[NonTradMed]

Indeed. The actual offer was for 180K, but I thought I would get a few laughs out of it first.

Ain't nothing wrong with the backdoor baby!

Get in where you fit in.

Wow, that's a lot! Congrats!

Thanks people for sharing your thoughts on this! I'm really excited about going to med school. There have been moments in my day when I just stop and think,'Hm, I'm going to be a doctor!'.

Yeah, I really need to get a life, I know.

 

[Taus]

The only "backdoor" that I am aware of involves a lot of KY

 

[mshheaddoc]

I just rec'd a recruiting letter for a program director position in Internal Medicine...starting salary was 55k, but I know for a fact that allos get WAY more (about 100k more to be exact). In fact 4th year residents almost make that much.

was this military?

I think there is a growing trend among hospitals toward compensating DOs far less than their MD counterparts. Not sure why that is, but if I had to take a stab at it I would guess that people are beginning to catch on to the whole 'back door' thing.

Yeah, right Show me the stats and then I'll show you mine that say the exact opposite of what you are saying.

 

[mshheaddoc]

The only "backdoor" that I am aware of involves a lot of KY

And a condom. Always be safe



To the OP: you get the same money if you are a MD/DO in the same specialty. Only differences in pay might be between community hospitals and academic hospitals and that has nothing to do with your degree ... only location and type of hospital.

 

[priu]

Not quite sure what you mean... my sentiment was 100% honest of what I was feeling/thinking when I was writing it. I'm sorry, but you really have no idea why I wrote that... the truth is that I have been defending DO's against MD's who are telling me to go the MD route, and some of what's been said in this thread struck a chord with what I've been thinking.

fair enough....though usually when people make posts like above its because they know they will get a "rise" out of people...

EDIT: You obviously didn't catch on to this when you misjudged my intentions: I'm a very angry person right now because of what I've learned about people in the medical world.

 

[Taus]

"fair enough" implies that I understand what you meant....I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way...its hard to have "tone of voice" come accross through typing.....I was simply stating how the OP was joking....I'm glad that you defend Osteopathy, as do I, but IMHO, the only defending worth concentrating my time on is treating my future patients well....that will speak for itself...

And in all honestly...what do you expect to come from people who have spent their whole lives striving to be the top/most competative at everything they do academically?....it definitely breeds many ignorant a$$holes....I guess its just the nature of the beast...

 

[priu]

True, being angry about it won't help anything.

 

[Dies Irae]

Dude you're like 10+ years away from receiving a salary. Maybe by that time there will be a 3rd medical degree, someone for us to make fun of.

I know exactly where you got that avatar from...sick bastard.