Accreditation. Make or break?

[Sharn Penndroen]

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I'm a 3rd year medical student and my cousin is applying to podiatry school. He has been accepted to Ohio and Arizona. The school in AZ is new (only going for 3 years right now, I think) and is in the process of getting accreditation. He was told while there that they would probably be accredited by October of this year. He is asking me what I think he should do, so I'm coming here looking for advice from people who might actually know what they are talking about...

MY question is, should the accreditation issue be a decision maker? He lived in AZ before and thinks he would like living there better. On the other hand, Ohio is accredited and they are offering him a scholarship.

Opinions?

 

[OSUDDS]

its definitely depends on how comfortable you feel about the stiuation, azpod seems like a great school and they seem to be well on their way to getting accredited

however, for me, it was a breaking point. i chose ocpm over azpod.

 

[densmore22]

As far as quality of schooling, personally, I'd pick the school where you take classes w/ the DO's. Nothing against Ohio, just a personal preference. I believe Ohio gives everyone scholarships too. It is a gamble going to an unaccredited school, but Arizona is a great school and I would be shocked if they didn't get accredited.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I'm a 3rd year medical student and my cousin is applying to podiatry school. He has been accepted to Ohio and Arizona. The school in AZ is new (only going for 3 years right now, I think) and is in the process of getting accreditation. He was told while there that they would probably be accredited by October of this year. He is asking me what I think he should do, so I'm coming here looking for advice from people who might actually know what they are talking about...

MY question is, should the accreditation issue be a decision maker? He lived in AZ before and thinks he would like living there better. On the other hand, Ohio is accredited and they are offering him a scholarship.

Opinions?

I can agree that accreditation is a worrisome point. AZPod will great accredited without a problem.

If you are just looking for opinions, I would go to AZPod every day of the week. Scholarship or no scholarship. I feel that they have better facilities and curriculum (integrated learning environment).

 

[OSUDDS]

im not big on the whole DO thing, so that wasnt a factor in my decision

 

[diidy]

My 2 cents...

If he's already been accepted, Im assuming he's already interviewed and visited both schools. Besides the fact that AZPOD hasn't been accredited yet, which school does he like better? Personally, I feel that AZPOD's accredation is only a matter of time, and in fact I would be suprised if they didnt attain accredation. So Im not sure if that fact should be huge deterrent in his decision. It really should come down to what he likes the most about each school and where he can envision himself staying for the next few years.

As far as scholarship goes, I got offerred scholarships to all the schools I interviewed at EXCEPT the 1 school that I ultimately decided to enroll in. Sometimes, there's more to weigh in a school's favor than the money they offer you (alot of times its not even that much- only a minute portion of your first year's tuition for example). Tell him to look more into what each school has to offer him as far his professional education- ie. faculty, students, facilities, curriculum, clinical experience, board prep and pass rates, etc.

Good luck.

 

[gustydoc]

I go to Des Moines University and the only other programs I would have considered would be AZPOD or maybe Scholl. AZPOD will get their accreditation and the education there is better than the majority of other schools. Excluding DMU of course 😀

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

im not big on the whole DO thing, so that wasnt a factor in my decision

Let me play devil's advocate: So you buy into the independence that OCPM "sells." Do you not think that we work in an integrated system? Won't most of you business come from referrals? Isn't the largest bulk of PCP (family practice) coming from DO schools? Wouldn't connections made in school or the ability to say I also graduated from DMU help in the future?

My opinion is integration allows a few major benefits:

1) Faculty - You are sharing the cost of faculty so you don't end up with a dentist teaching gross anatomy.

2) Facilities - Expansion and updating technology is done on a regular basis b/c all of the programs want to stay current. There is also a larger group that can be "hit up" for donations

3) Connections and education of other health professionals - I have many friends that are graduating in the DO, PA, and DPT classes. I'm sure that if it does not help me directly it will help a pod somewhere b/c they are comfortable with me and the training I received (even if all training is not equal).

4) Security - You don't have to worry that the school is moving or closing this or firing that, ect.

5) Inability to curve the grades to lower students - Where it is a need for money or just b/c they want to keep most of the students but independent schools tend to have elevated grades but poor pass rates on part I of the boards. I think that an inability of the lower schools to curve the grades means students that would fail the boards, fail school. This is displayed with the Class of 2008 at AZPod. A 100% pass rate, but they've lost a good number of students. (That will change and as their average entrance stats increase)​

Just some things to think about

 

[OSUDDS]

I think you can definitely build relations with people outside the realm of podiatry during residencies and through group practices, or by your own networking skills. I don't think its mandatory to attend an integrated school to do that.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I think you can definitely build relations with people outside the realm of podiatry during residencies and through group practices, or by your own networking skills. I don't think its mandatory to attend an integrated school to do that.

I agree with that. But if all of the schools were integrated don't you think that the profession would gain more respect and gain more allies. Like anything else in this world, people find comfort in similarities. MDs and DOs would have more confidence in the training b/c you've taken it with them.

What advantages do you see in an independent program?

 

[densmore22]

Let me play devil's advocate: So you buy into the independence that OCPM "sells." Do you not think that we work in an integrated system? Won't most of you business come from referrals? Isn't the largest bulk of PCP (family practice) coming from DO schools? Wouldn't connections made in school or the ability to say I also graduated from DMU help in the future?

My opinion is integration allows a few major benefits:

1) Faculty - You are sharing the cost of faculty so you don't end up with a dentist teaching gross anatomy.

2) Facilities - Expansion and updating technology is done on a regular basis b/c all of the programs want to stay current. There is also a larger group that can be "hit up" for donations

3) Connections and education of other health professionals - I have many friends that are graduating in the DO, PA, and DPT classes. I'm sure that if it does not help me directly it will help a pod somewhere b/c they are comfortable with me and the training I received (even if all training is not equal).

4) Security - You don't have to worry that the school is moving or closing this or firing that, ect.

5) Inability to curve the grades to lower students - Where it is a need for money or just b/c they want to keep most of the students but independent schools tend to have elevated grades but poor pass rates on part I of the boards. I think that an inability of the lower schools to curve the grades means students that would fail the boards, fail school. This is displayed with the Class of 2008 at AZPod. A 100% pass rate, but they've lost a good number of students. (That will change and as their average entrance stats increase)​

Just some things to think about

I agree with all of these but none more than #5. Grade inflation at other schools is ridiculous. 10 people with 4.0's? I mean come on! You won't have that at DMU or AZPOD, guaranteed. You want that 4.0, you gotta work for it, not just get close and get rounded off. Not that those people don't work for it, but when you see that many people, it's a red flag.

I don't think that integration in paramount to success, but it definitely helps and overall, you educate a group of people who will be sending you patients in the future. I can't speak for residency directly, but from what I've read on the CASPR/CRIP website, it looks like most of the hospitals we'll be doing residency at have only 2 or 3 other residency specialties available for MD/DO's, so yes, you'll be making contacts and educating people, but nothing compared to the 200+ people in the DO class that I sit in a lecture hall with everyday.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I agree with all of these but none more than #5. Grade inflation at other schools is ridiculous. 10 people with 4.0's? I mean come on! You won't have that at DMU or AZPOD, guaranteed. You want that 4.0, you gotta work for it, not just get close and get rounded off. Not that those people don't work for it, but when you see that many people, it's a red flag.

I don't think that integration in paramount to success, but it definitely helps and overall, you educate a group of people who will be sending you patients in the future. I can't speak for residency directly, but from what I've read on the CASPR/CRIP website, it looks like most of the hospitals we'll be doing residency at have only 2 or 3 other residency specialties available for MD/DO's, so yes, you'll be making contacts and educating people, but nothing compared to the 200+ people in the DO class that I sit in a lecture hall with everyday.

I don't think that it is paramount to the success of a student, but I do think that is will become paramount to the success of the profession. While I understand that change is scary, I take the Darwin approach; everything must adapt or die. Look no farther than the computer you are typing. As everything advances changes must be made.

 

[brittdogg25]

I'm the guy Sharn was talking about. Being accepted to Ohio and Arizona, what is in everyone's opinion the better school and why? I like Arizona because I lived there for 2 years and made lots of friends. I think the facility is great and the instructors are good. Ohio is a nice place also, I loved the atmosphere and it being a Podiatry school to itself. I honestly like the idea of the scholarship deal at Ohio because it does save a chunk of money. I'm just very stressed because I like both schools and am having difficulty picking one.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I’m the guy Sharn was talking about. Being accepted to Ohio and Arizona, what is in everyone’s opinion the better school and why? I like Arizona because I lived there for 2 years and made lots of friends. I think the facility is great and the instructors are good. Ohio is a nice place also, I loved the atmosphere and it being a Podiatry school to itself. I honestly like the idea of the scholarship deal at Ohio because it does save a chunk of money. I’m just very stressed because I like both schools and am having difficulty picking one.

Remember that scholarships for incoming students are recruitment gimmicks. Most students lose the scholarships b/c they have certain requirements such as staying in the top 25%. That means 75% of the class is out of luck.

 

[brittdogg25]

So do you feel Arizona is a better school?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

So do you feel Arizona is a better school?

In its short life it has much better outcomes. There is no school that guarantees success. Some schools seem to have more success. I judge a school by its willingness to disclose all of the information. Scholl and DMU are the only ones that you can find just about anything on their website. Board scores, entrance stats, and other outcomes are readily available. Maybe it is b/c they have nothing to hide.

For as much history as OCPM has, they still do not disclose much. AZPod is much more forthcoming. That says a lot to me. So does the fact that AZPod has a 100% pass rate on the Part I boards.

I can understand the fear with going with a new school that may not exist after next year. But I don't think that will happen and I think that you have an opportunity to receive a much better education at AZPod.

 

[brittdogg25]

I greatly appreciate your statement, another thing that worries me is the attrition rate. How do you think that reflects the school?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I greatly appreciate your statement, another thing that worries me is the attrition rate. How do you think that reflects the school?

I think that it reflects the school in a good way. You must remember that some schools graduate students that do not pass the boards. At a program like AZPod, they would have likely failed out. So they pay the school $100K in tuition for a degree they cannot use b/c they cannot get a license without passing said board exams.

 

[jonwill]

I personally can't see AZPOD not receiving accreditation. It is going to be a strong program.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

It also fills a need unlike the new Western program that is getting started. That is why I say they are good to go.

 

[brittdogg25]

What about training, do students at AZPOD recieve good podiatry training. I mean going to school with DO's you share a lot of the learning and skills. Do you feel they do enough podiatry specific training? Essentially I'm going to school as a podiatrist and not a DO and wonder about the impact of doing a lot of things with DO students. Is this a valid concern?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

What about training, do students at AZPOD recieve good podiatry training. I mean going to school with DO's you share a lot of the learning and skills. Do you feel they do enough podiatry specific training? Essentially I'm going to school as a podiatrist and not a DO and wonder about the impact of doing a lot of things with DO students. Is this a valid concern?

Like with any medical education, there are two steps.

1) Medical school - which is the foundation of your medical training.
2) Residency - this is where you learn to be a podiatrist.

This would have been a major issue 20 years ago when you could practice right out of school. But since you are required to go to residency, that is where you are trained to be a clinican.

That has been the major change in podiatry; when it changed from a technician job (i.e. nail and callus trimmer) to a physician's job (diagnosing systemic disease that manifest themselves in the LE, performing more reconstructive surgery, being the best trained medical personal in care of the LE).

So to make my long answer short, that is B.S. that they are trying to sell you. And the integrated programs get as much if not more exposure to podiatry b/c they have a 2+2 format (2 years of basic science + 2 years of clinical medicine) and other "traditional" schools have basic science classes much later into the educaiton.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I greatly appreciate your statement, another thing that worries me is the attrition rate. How do you think that reflects the school?

Now I am assuming that you can handle the pressure of medical school. To me that this the difference, are you wanting to go to podiatric medical school or podiatric school?

AZPod is hard and without knowing your stats. You maybe a student that is lost in the mix. I do not know so I this is only opinion, but OCPM does not seem to have the pressure that AZPod will have. Maybe you need to look at can you handle the load, if not go to OCPM.

 

[brittdogg25]

I have a 3.85 GPA and a 3.93 Science GPA I'm currently attending Southeastern Louisiana University with a major in Biology and minor in Chemistry and have averaged close to 18 hours per semester. I feel confident in my abilities to handle a hard load and know I can. Do you feel this is good enough?

 

[Sharn Penndroen]

brittdogg25, I think what he is really saying is "do you think you can handle the pressure" not "are you smart enough." Assuming that podiatry school is very similar to medical school, I can tell you that pretty much everyone accepted is smart enough. That is what the application process is supposed to be about. He is saying, "Can you handle the pressure?" Do you want an easy ride or are you willing to handle the pressures of medical school? It would seem that azpod would likely give you an experience nearly identical to medical school in terms of type of training and degree of difficulty. I know you and know that you CAN handle that, but you have to decide if you are willing to do that.

 

[iwilldlvr]

I would say your best bet is to go onto the aacpm website and contact some of the student (or even practicing pod) mentors from OCPM (since AZPOD has no graduated students yet). They could more than likely give you a better idea than the pre-pods (and always biased pod students) here. I'm sure AZPOD could also give you some students to contact that are in the highest class so far (3rd year, right??).

Personally, I wouldn't really rely on what anyone from other schools say as they have no direct experience with either school. Try to get your info from the mouths of current or previous students at the schools. They will give you the best info. And don't worry about AZPOD getting accreditation. It's a good school, they'll get it.

 

[Cheetos]

Don't worry about the accredition issue. Most of us are positive that AZPOD will get it once they graduate their first class next year. Other than that, come join the winning team 👍

 

[Dr. Gangrene]

Don't worry about the accredition issue. Most of us are positive that AZPOD will get it once they graduate their first class next year. Other than that, come join the winning team 👍

👍
I chose azpod, and will start this fall. While the accredition was something I asked about, it is nothing to worry about. azpod has basically met all of the requirements except graduating their first class (which will happen this fall).
Like someone else mentioned, you need to go where you feel comfortable.
Azpod will be accredited.

 

[jonwill]

Personally, I wouldn't really rely on what anyone from other schools say as they have no direct experience with either school

This is not true. Upper classman rotate at various programs throughout the nation with many students from the different schools. In other words, we all get to see the "finished product" of every school. And our education is something that is frankly discussed.

Not to mention the various government association events held at the schools every year.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

brittdogg25, I think what he is really saying is "do you think you can handle the pressure" not "are you smart enough." Assuming that podiatry school is very similar to medical school, I can tell you that pretty much everyone accepted is smart enough. That is what the application process is supposed to be about. He is saying, "Can you handle the pressure?" Do you want an easy ride or are you willing to handle the pressures of medical school? It would seem that azpod would likely give you an experience nearly identical to medical school in terms of type of training and degree of difficulty. I know you and know that you CAN handle that, but you have to decide if you are willing to do that.

👍 You read my mind.

 

[iwilldlvr]

This is not true. Upper classman rotate at various programs throughout the nation with many students from the different schools. In other words, we all get to see the "finished product" of every school. And our education is something that is frankly discussed.

Not to mention the various government association events held at the schools every year.

OK, I'll clarify. What I meant was those that are students of the school are the only ones that know first-hand of the total experience. I realize the students interact at various functions, but only the students that attend those specific schools know what the entire experience may be at that school. There is more involved, as you definitely know, than just making it to clinical rotations and subsequently residency.

School A may have a high first-time board pass rate, but there may be students that felt like they were left out to fend for themselves (just an example). There are all kinds of scenarios that can come into play. Bottom line, if someone never attended school A, s/he can only reguritate what has been said by others but doesn't know exactly what all went on. That's why so many on this forum are biased.

It's just better to get a few opinions from students at the interested schools. There are just too many factors involved not to.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

OK, I'll clarify. What I meant was those that are students of the school are the only ones that know first-hand of the total experience. I realize the students interact at various functions, but only the students that attend those specific schools know what the entire experience may be at that school. There is more involved, as you definitely know, than just making it to clinical rotations and subsequently residency.

School A may have a high first-time board pass rate, but there may be students that felt like they were left out to fend for themselves (just an example). There are all kinds of scenarios that can come into play. Bottom line, if someone never attended school A, s/he can only reguritate what has been said by others but doesn't know exactly what all went on. That's why so many on this forum are biased.

It's just better to get a few opinions from students at the interested schools. There are just too many factors involved not to.

I agree. That is why I am such a big fan of disclosing information on a schools website. Just for example just compare website of various schools. I picked financial aid b/c it is an easy topic. Just for ease, compare these two http://www.barry.edu/podiatry/adFin/financialAid.htm to http://www.rosalindfranklin.edu/osa/FinancialAid/. Which one is more informative? On top of that, only three of the schools had any information about COA (cost of attendance). They all listed scholarships and tuition but not the extras that add up fast.

I think that some schools hide information and only give it out when you are on campus or already a student. They don't want the info out where others can look and criticize. I truly believe that they are afraid of losing face; I say that b/c I can't think of another reason. If they were more open, then we would not have discuss what student A thought about school B b/c all of the info and outcomes are listed on the web for anyone to find. I think that this is near sighted and students would go there no matter what. Plus, some of these gross deficiency would forced to be addressed. If a school had to continuously report a first time pass rate of 50%; they are not going to be proud and will look to improve.

Just to close, compare the websites of the medical school at Temple to the podiatric school. Which one seems to be hiding something.

http://podiatry.temple.edu/index.html

http://www.temple.edu/medicine/

 

[calcaneus]

What are you insinuating that Temple is hiding? They are one of the schools that fully disclose cost of attendence, even including the cost of the yearbook, and the tuition and everything is up-to-date for the 06-07 year.

I'm strongly considering Temple and I'm curious if there's something I'm missing?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

What are you insinuating that Temple is hiding? They are one of the schools that fully disclose cost of attendence, even including the cost of the yearbook, and the tuition and everything is up-to-date for the 06-07 year.

I'm strongly considering Temple and I'm curious if there's something I'm missing?

What they list is an estimate b/c once again, they want to look good. I would guess that we all agree it is cheaper to live in Des Moines, IA than Philadelphia, PA. If you were to accepted the claim that the total costs at TUSPM is $41, 000; it would mean that the COA at DMU is about $5000 more than TUSPM. (Tutition at DMU is $2000 dollars less and they list the COA as $44, 000).

I did not post the DMU website b/c I don't want people to think I am ranting about how great DMU is but this is a good disclosure of a student budget, http://www.dmu.edu/FA/Budgets/CpmsBudget0708.cfm.

 

[jonwill]

OK, I'll clarify. What I meant was those that are students of the school are the only ones that know first-hand of the total experience. I realize the students interact at various functions, but only the students that attend those specific schools know what the entire experience may be at that school. There is more involved, as you definitely know, than just making it to clinical rotations and subsequently residency.

School A may have a high first-time board pass rate, but there may be students that felt like they were left out to fend for themselves (just an example). There are all kinds of scenarios that can come into play. Bottom line, if someone never attended school A, s/he can only reguritate what has been said by others but doesn't know exactly what all went on. That's why so many on this forum are biased.

It's just better to get a few opinions from students at the interested schools. There are just too many factors involved not to.

I see what you are saying but I'm talking about the finished product. You have to understand that while pre-pods and beginning pod students are fiercely loyal to their schools, upper classmen feel no such loyalty. When one begins externships and quickly sees that they weren't prepared as well as they should have been, loyalty goes out the window. I, as well as many nearing graduation, have spoken with many students from nearly all of the schools. The discussions on education are frank and honest. It is quite easy to see the trend of each program.

I have seen successful students from all of the schools. The only difference is that some were indeed left to fend for themselves. They did it on their own and they are quick to warn others.

 

[calcaneus]

What they list is an estimate b/c once again, they want to look good. I would guess that we all agree it is cheaper to live in Des Moines, IA than Philadelphia, PA. If you were to accepted the claim that the total costs at TUSPM is $41, 000; it would mean that the COA at DMU is about $5000 more than TUSPM. (Tutition at DMU is $2000 dollars less and they list the COA as $44, 000).

I did not post the DMU website b/c I don't want people to think I am ranting about how great DMU is but this is a good disclosure of a student budget, http://www.dmu.edu/FA/Budgets/CpmsBudget0708.cfm.

I see...TUSPM doesn't include food or personal items, which DMU allocates 3,000 and 2,660 respectively, making a 5,660 difference! I guess Temple expects me not to eat or get any new clothes in the 4 years I'm there? I think I might e-mail someone about that. Also, they say ~41,000, but the budget they give (minus food and personal) adds up to 42970, $1970 more than 41000. And that's only for in-state tuition. That's a pretty big "approximately."

In all fairness though, the difference in living between Philly and DMU (after adding food and personal items) is accomodated in the housing, $1000 a month as opposed to $592/mth at DMU. But it still isn't good that I have to add in food and personal stuff to explain the discrepancy.

However, you compared TUSPM and Temple's MD school's website, and for the MD website I couldn't find any budget, just the cost of tuition. So I'm still confused about what the pod school is hiding that the MD school isn't? Or was that just a bad example and the point is more that Temple didn't include things like food and personal items.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I see...TUSPM doesn't include food or personal items, which DMU allocates 3,000 and 2,660 respectively, making a 5,660 difference! I guess Temple expects me not to eat or get any new clothes in the 4 years I'm there? I think I might e-mail someone about that. Also, they say ~41,000, but the budget they give (minus food and personal) adds up to 42970, $1970 more than 41000. And that's only for in-state tuition. That's a pretty big "approximately."

In all fairness though, the difference in living between Philly and DMU (after adding food and personal items) is accomodated in the housing, $1000 a month as opposed to $592/mth at DMU. But it still isn't good that I have to add in food and personal stuff to explain the discrepancy.

However, you compared TUSPM and Temple's MD school's website, and for the MD website I couldn't find any budget, just the cost of tuition. So I'm still confused about what the pod school is hiding that the MD school isn't? Or was that just a bad example and the point is more that Temple didn't include things like food and personal items.

I used financial aid as an example. But just a few other things that I would like to see that are on the MD website:
1) Average entering stats or a class profile
2) Statistical outcomes such as board information and residency placement
3) A strategic plan or just a vision of the future

 

[bdaddyjolley]

I see...TUSPM doesn't include food or personal items, which DMU allocates 3,000 and 2,660 respectively, making a 5,660 difference! I guess Temple expects me not to eat or get any new clothes in the 4 years I'm there? I think I might e-mail someone about that. Also, they say ~41,000, but the budget they give (minus food and personal) adds up to 42970, $1970 more than 41000. And that's only for in-state tuition. That's a pretty big "approximately."

In all fairness though, the difference in living between Philly and DMU (after adding food and personal items) is accomodated in the housing, $1000 a month as opposed to $592/mth at DMU. But it still isn't good that I have to add in food and personal stuff to explain the discrepancy.

However, you compared TUSPM and Temple's MD school's website, and for the MD website I couldn't find any budget, just the cost of tuition. So I'm still confused about what the pod school is hiding that the MD school isn't? Or was that just a bad example and the point is more that Temple didn't include things like food and personal items.

If you pay 1000/ month to live in philly to go to school then I think you're getting ripped off and don't know how to look for a place to live. I have scowered the city looking for a place to live and found many apartments at reasonable prices in good areas. There's no way I'm paying that much for a place.

 

[bdaddyjolley]

I used financial aid as an example. But just a few other things that I would like to see that are on the MD website:
1) Average entering stats or a class profile
2) Statistical outcomes such as board information and residency placement
3) A strategic plan or just a vision of the future

1. The average entering stats for GPA is on the website and they were given again in the invitation packet and at the interview.

2.The board outcomes were told to me during my interview and so was the residency placement. Residency placement information is also on the website.

3. There is a mission statement and a vision statement on the website.

I don't feel they are hiding anything. So if we want to pick things apart, let's look at your statement about the average MCAT score for DMU being 24. However, on the DMU website it says 22 and the same was in the interview packet I got from there. Also, I didn't find any board pass rate info on the website either along with residency placement. However that info was in the invitation packet. So the point is, just because it's not on the website doesn't mean that the school is trying to hide anything because if that was true then DMU is hiding a lot because not every little detail is on the website. Or maybe it's there but hard to find.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

1. The average entering stats for GPA is on the website and they were given again in the invitation packet and at the interview.

2.The board outcomes were told to me during my interview and so was the residency placement. Residency placement information is also on the website.

3. There is a mission statement and a vision statement on the website.

I don't feel they are hiding anything. So if we want to pick things apart, let's look at your statement about the average MCAT score for DMU being 24. However, on the DMU website it says 22 and the same was in the interview packet I got from there. Also, I didn't find any board pass rate info on the website either along with residency placement. However that info was in the invitation packet. So the point is, just because it's not on the website doesn't mean that the school is trying to hide anything because if that was true then DMU is hiding a lot because not every little detail is on the website. Or maybe it's there but hard to find.

First, I use Temple only b/c they have a MD program that has a much, much more open and user friendly website. So that tells me that TUSPM has decided to keep some info off of the web. I could have used OCPM or CSPM b/c they do the same.

Second, the stats I quoted on the MCAT (if you reread) were current. The stats on the website are from the class of 2009. I agree that there is a lag, but they cannot post this years profile until the class is done. That is why there is a lag. The website will probably be updated this summer and the profile will change to the class of 2010 (again, the class of 2011 is not officially closed until August).

Third, the outcomes is on the website,http://www.dmu.edu/news/index.cfm?NewsID=131.

Fourth, I do not disagree with sending fliers and handouts.

But I'll give you something to think about, if a school puts it on the website it must be true. Why I say that is if they lied it would be easy for CPME and AACPM would have a hay-day with them. There is an ability for schools to deny lies that they tell students during the admissions process (i.e. this school does not let all of the students take the boards, this school does not have a clinic on campus, ect.)

If you think that TUSPM does not break the rules set by the AACPM, look no further than this thread:

I've done the Temple internship program last summer, and they offered to interview you ahead of time. Also, that interview would count as the real one. I decided not to interview since I wasnt interested in goin to Temple, but from what I heard the interview was relatively painless.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=385800.

The reason Jonwill said interesting is it is against AACPM admissions guidelines for any school to interview students before a certain date. This is a violation of those guidelines and TUSPM would have to do some serious explaining to AACPM and CPME.

Again, I used TUSPM b/c they have another program with a better website, I was by no means saying that they are the only ones.

 

[krabmas]

1. The average entering stats for GPA is on the website and they were given again in the invitation packet and at the interview.

2.The board outcomes were told to me during my interview and so was the residency placement. Residency placement information is also on the website.

3. There is a mission statement and a vision statement on the website.

I don't feel they are hiding anything. So if we want to pick things apart, let's look at your statement about the average MCAT score for DMU being 24. However, on the DMU website it says 22 and the same was in the interview packet I got from there. Also, I didn't find any board pass rate info on the website either along with residency placement. However that info was in the invitation packet. So the point is, just because it's not on the website doesn't mean that the school is trying to hide anything because if that was true then DMU is hiding a lot because not every little detail is on the website. Or maybe it's there but hard to find.

Try not to take it personal if some one says something bad about your school. Think if the statement is pesonal against the students or what the school does. All the schools have issues.

All the schools have some pretty terrible students and some great students. They all produce some pretty great podiatrists and some pretty crappy ones. You'll never know if the school produced it or if the student worked for it or learned everything they know in residency.

The point is go to the best school you can or what you think is the best for your best shot to be the best pod. And work hard once you get there.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Try not to take it personal if some one says something bad about your school. Think if the statement is pesonal against the students or what the school does. All the schools have issues.

All the schools have some pretty terrible students and some great students. They all produce some pretty great podiatrists and some pretty crappy ones. You'll never know if the school produced it or if the student worked for it or learned everything they know in residency.

The point is go to the best school you can or what you think is the best for your best shot to be the best pod. And work hard once you get there.

I was just talking about this today. I think if you took the top 10 to 20 from all the schools they are a wash. They are just good students. I think that the middle and lower students are the ones that we argue about (i.e. which school is better). That is where the schools are different where it is b/c they take lower end students or less effective methods of teaching. I don't have the answer, but I do wish the schools would work together. This cloak and dagger crap is a joke.

 

[m326841]

I agree very firmly with what Dr_feelgood says except his statement on the 10-20 top students at all the schools being the best regardless. I can't agree that is an accurate indicator because of what I have personally seen to this regard. Some of the better schools? Probably, but I can't agree with the all inclusive clause. Enough said about that.

But I will absolutely state that serious students should only consider serious academic institutions for their own sake.

In this regard, I would personally select Arizona school, hands down.

 

[jonwill]

I agree very firmly with what Dr_feelgood says except his statement on the 10-20 top students at all the schools being the best regardless. I can't agree that is an accurate indicator because of what I have personally seen to this regard. Some of the better schools? Probably, but I can't agree with the all inclusive clause. Enough said about that.

But I will absolutely state that serious students should only consider serious academic institutions for their own sake.

In this regard, I would personally select Arizona school, hands down.

I see what you're saying. GPA's can be very deceptive. I guess success in the classroom doesn't always carry over to clinical/surgical ability or problem solving for that matter. Clinic is the great equalizer. I've seen it a lot and I'm sure it's the same at every school.

Having said that, I have also seen top students that are very clinically competent. I guess the moral of the story is that whether you do extremely well in the classroom or just respectable (notice I did not say horrible), neither one necessarily transfers over to clinic/surgery.

I do believe that schools are defined more by the lower tier students. I say this because schools that have higher standards will have better lower tier students (who can pass boards) as opposed to those that take anybody who can get a loan. It is extremely irresponsible for a school to admit a student when it is quite obvious that the student is doomed.

Some of the schools really need to up their admission standards. But when you're tuition dependent (free standing schools), you can't do that because not filling your seats = not enough $$$ to run the school!

 

[krabmas]

I see what you're saying. GPA's can be very deceptive. I guess success in the classroom doesn't always carry over to clinical/surgical ability or problem solving for that matter. Clinic is the great equalizer. I've seen it a lot and I'm sure it's the same at every school.

Having said that, I have also seen top students that are very clinically competent. I guess the moral of the story is that whether you do extremely well in the classroom or just respectable (notice I did not say horrible), neither one necessarily transfers over to clinic/surgery.

I do believe that schools are defined more by the lower tier students. I say this because schools that have higher standards will have better lower tier students (who can pass boards) as opposed to those that take anybody who can get a loan. It is extremely irresponsible for a school to admit a student when it is quite obvious that the student is doomed.

Some of the schools really need to up their admission standards. But when you're tuition dependent (free standing schools), you can't do that because not filling your seats = not enough $$$ to run the school!

Hey,

stop bashing my free standing school. I can make fun of my mother but you can't

 

[jonwill]

Hey,

stop bashing my free standing school. I can make fun of my mother but you can't

Hey, you've seen the shirt. Everybody loves NY!