ACGME in a Nutshell - New to All This Terminology

[Kerosene Hat]

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I keep hearing about these ACGME changes, but I'm having difficulty understanding the terminology. Essentially, what will they if I choose to attend DO school? How will my residency choices be different (keep in mind, this will be 5-7 years in the future)?

I'm new to this whole process, so please pardon me for not understanding all the ACGME training/fellowship/residency terminology.

 

[sylvanthus]

DO intern year does not qualify for entrance into an MD residency (PGY 2+). So a person doing a DO intern year will need to repeat it on the MD side if they wish to match into an MD residency (PGY 2+).

Also, a DO residency, does not qualify for entrance into an MD fellowship. So, if you do IM on the DO side and want to do a fellowship like cardiology on the MD side, you are out of luck. There are far fewer fellowships on the DO side, so this can suck and limit ones choices.

Hope that helps somewhat.

 

[Kerosene Hat]

Here's another "duh" question: Is it at all possible to go into an MD intern year straight from an osteopathic medical school?

 

[sylvanthus]

Yes.

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Yes, but you cannot participate in the osteopathic match realistically. The DO match day is earlier and if you match, you are contractually obligated to do that residency and you are pulled from the allopathic match.

 

[ShyRem]

yes.

 

[Kerosene Hat]

DO intern year does not qualify for entrance into an MD residency (PGY 2+). So a person doing a DO intern year will need to repeat it on the MD side if they wish to match into an MD residency (PGY 2+).

Also, a DO residency, does not qualify for entrance into an MD fellowship. So, if you do IM on the DO side and want to do a fellowship like cardiology on the MD side, you are out of luck. There are far fewer fellowships on the DO side, so this can suck and limit ones choices.

Hope that helps somewhat.

Thanks. Is this pre-change or post-change?

 

[Kerosene Hat]

Yes, but you cannot participate in the osteopathic match realistically. The DO match day is earlier and if you match, you are contractually obligated to do that residency and you are pulled from the allopathic match.

So, I assume that all DO's that did allopathic residencies (I know a few, and there are of course many) had to redo their intern year?

 

[cliquesh]

So, I assume that all DO's that did allopathic residencies (I know a few, and there are of course many) had to redo their intern year?

You only have to do the intern year if you want to practice in Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania, or Oklahoma. They are the only states that require the AOA intern year for licensure. Also, you can try to get your ACGME internship to count as an AOA internship by applying for resolution 42 (http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Education/postdoctoral-training/Pages/resolution-42.aspx). And, to my knowledge, the proposed changes discussed above have not been passed.

 

[Kerosene Hat]

You only have to do the intern year if you want to practice in Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania, or Oklahoma. They are the only states that require the AOA intern year for licensure. And, to my knowledge, the proposed changes discussed above have not been passed.

Yes, but you cannot participate in the osteopathic match realistically. The DO match day is earlier and if you match, you are contractually obligated to do that residency and you are pulled from the allopathic match.

These seem to contradict each other...😕

 

[Kerosene Hat]

OK, so the proposed changes would mean that every state would have to do what Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania, and Oklahoma currently do in terms of osteo/allo internships?

 

[cliquesh]

OK, so the proposed changes would mean that every state would have to do what Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania, and Oklahoma currently do in terms of osteo/allo internships?

No, sorry for not being clear.

I was referring to : "Also, a DO residency, does not qualify for entrance into an MD fellowship. So, if you do IM on the DO side and want to do a fellowship like cardiology on the MD side, you are out of luck. There are far fewer fellowships on the DO side, so this can suck and limit ones choices. "

As of now, to the best of my knowledge, you can still do an ACGME fellowship from an AOA residency and a AOA internship still qualifies you for entrance into an ACGME residency.

This is from the AOA website:

ACGME recently proposed two new policies that would limit future DOs from being able to train in ACGME programs. They include:

Requiring an ACGME-accredited residency program as a prerequisite for clinical education for entry into an ACGME-accredited residency program or a Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RSPSC)-accredited residency program located in Canada. (This would limit a DO who completed an AOA-accredited internship from proceeding to an ACGME program unless they repeated their internship year in an ACGME-accredited residency program.)

Requiring an ACGME-accredited residency program or RCPSC-accredited residency program in Canada as a prerequisite for clinical education for entry into an ACGME-accredited fellowship program.

The last update says: "Dec. 21, 2011 – AOA Executive Director John B. Crosby, JD, spoke with Thomas Nasca, MD, ACGME CEO, and came to an agreement to hold a meeting of the AOA-AACOM-ACGME leaderships to discuss the proposed policies. The leadership meeting is scheduled for the fourth week in January."

 

[GraceEuphoria]

Thanks. Is this pre-change or post-change?

This would be post-change.

So, I assume that all DO's that did allopathic residencies (I know a few, and there are of course many) had to redo their intern year?

As far as I understand, this would only go into affect starting in 2014 (just so happens to be my year of graduation lol). I'm not sure if it could technically work retrograde and cause those about to apply for an allopathic fellowship with a DO residency behind not to be able to do so. That is where my knowledge of the proposal ends honestly. I could that *possibly* happening, but not taking someone who has completed their internship and residency as a mix of osteo and allopathic, respectively, and making them go back to do an allopathic intern year. To me that would just seem ridiculous and overkill, but I guess you just never really know. If anyone understands that aspect, please chime in. Hopefully what I said even made any sense 🙂

 

[donkeykong1]

No, sorry for not being clear.

I was referring to : "Also, a DO residency, does not qualify for entrance into an MD fellowship. So, if you do IM on the DO side and want to do a fellowship like cardiology on the MD side, you are out of luck. There are far fewer fellowships on the DO side, so this can suck and limit ones choices. "

As of now, to the best of my knowledge, you can still do an ACGME fellowship from an AOA residency and a AOA internship still qualifies you for entrance into an ACGME residency.

This is from the AOA website:

ACGME recently proposed two new policies that would limit future DOs from being able to train in ACGME programs. They include:

Requiring an ACGME-accredited residency program as a prerequisite for clinical education for entry into an ACGME-accredited residency program or a Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RSPSC)-accredited residency program located in Canada. (This would limit a DO who completed an AOA-accredited internship from proceeding to an ACGME program unless they repeated their internship year in an ACGME-accredited residency program.)

Requiring an ACGME-accredited residency program or RCPSC-accredited residency program in Canada as a prerequisite for clinical education for entry into an ACGME-accredited fellowship program.

The last update says: "Dec. 21, 2011 – AOA Executive Director John B. Crosby, JD, spoke with Thomas Nasca, MD, ACGME CEO, and came to an agreement to hold a meeting of the AOA-AACOM-ACGME leaderships to discuss the proposed policies. The leadership meeting is scheduled for the fourth week in January."

Thanks for the update. Regarding the internship limitation, you can still get an ACGME intern year to satisfy the AOA internship requirement for those 5 states using Res.42 right so i guess worst case scenario we have that to fall back on.