Acquiring part time autopsy work

[weenewdoc]

I am intersted in finding some part time work performing autopsies, and was wondering if anyone could share some knowledge about how to go about doing this. ME's, call community practice groups, look at academics? I've trained in a U.S. pathology residency program, completed one year, and did plenty of autopsies while there. However, I'm not in the program any longer. That was the extent of my residency training. I'd appreciate any info provided!

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[KCShaw]

Only a few ME/coroner offices might remotely consider someone who hadn't at least completed a pathology residency; those of any repute, and most others besides, also require a forensic path fellowship + boards (AP at least, then FP within a couple of years of hire if straight out of fellowship). There's nothing wrong with contacting some offices, but the days of anyone rocking up and becoming an autopsy physician for an ME/coroner are -mostly- gone, except for perhaps a few desperate positions in large overworked & underfunded offices or small rural locations where no-one better could be attracted. (Both situations I think are likely to do you and the community more harm than good.)

I suspect most academic centers, as much as the faculty pathologists might not be keen on doing autopsies, also aren't going to be excited about someone who never finished residency. Again, you can always try, more likely as a PA-type than to be utilized as a physician.

Community/private pathologists might consider using someone with that kind of background as a sort of PA for their contracted hospital autopsies, and might be the most likely route to doing what you're talking about among a bunch of poor options. But you're more likely to get into a pathology residency and finish what you started than land one of those jobs, IMO.

 

[TMZ2007]

Can you officially sign out autopsies without a medical license? Or does the coroner/chief ME officially sign them out?

 

[redapple123]

...............

 

[deleted314957]

I am intersted in finding some part time work performing autopsies, and was wondering if anyone could share some knowledge about how to go about doing this. ME's, call community practice groups, look at academics? I've trained in a U.S. pathology residency program, completed one year, and did plenty of autopsies while there. However, I'm not in the program any longer. That was the extent of my residency training. I'd appreciate any info provided!

You may be a capable prosector (proficient at autopsy dissection technique) but with your level of pathology education( or rather lack thereof ) you know very little about pathology after 1 year of residency. Any diener can do what you aspire to but it takes a trained pathologist to do the cognitive end of an autopsy.
Sorry to sound harsh but that is the reality.

 

[KCShaw]

Can you officially sign out autopsies without a medical license? Or does the coroner/chief ME officially sign them out?

Generally without a state medical license you can't practice medicine in that state (unless you work for a VA, in which case you still need a license "somewhere" just not necessarily in the state you're working in), and in the ME/coroner world means you can't sign a death certificate (unless you are "THE" coroner, which in some jurisdictions is an absurd exception). However, I don't believe you need to have completed a residency in order to obtain a state medical license. There are evidently people out there who have opened up shop and either do basic plastics (botox, etc.) &/or essentially family care without having done so, they just can't market themselves as anything other than "M.D." -- which to many unknowing patients is quite enough. Haven't had to deal with it, so I don't know how health insurance companies view such folks...insurance may be why some reportedly gravitate to basic plastics/pseudoplastics. But.. that's another issue entirely.

Edited to add: ME/coroner legislation varies considerably, but the chief/coroner may be allowed discretion to delegate the autopsy to anyone they deem fit. Most aren't so backwards as to have any schmuck do it, nor to do it themselves without relevant training, but in very low volume or remote areas I suppose could ask any local physician, legislation allowing. In some jurisdictions the chief might co-sign a report, or co-sign on homicides/babies, etc., often by personal choice or procedure of that chief, but generally whoever does the case signs the final report (co-signatures or reviewer signatures being separate additions in certain circumstances) if that person is still available (hasn't moved, been fired, died, etc.) when the report is finalized. Again, hardly anyone these days is going to choose someone with scant incomplete pathology training to handle forensic autopsies, and few to none if that person also has no state medical license. A few places will still pick up those who have done the training but never passed their boards; those people can generally still be qualified as expert witnesses, though obviously leaving open a substantial point of attack if someone wanted to make a stink.

 

[scienceguy19]

Oh well, I guess there's hope that if we cannot find a job in pathology, we can considering opening a botox shop if it's true that you don't even need to finish a residency...

on a more serious note, If you really want to do autopsies, you might as well finish residency. It's one of those things that not many attendings seem to want to do. I guess autopsy pathology is one of the few subspecialties in pathology for which there seem to be more job openings.

Generally without a state medical license you can't practice medicine in that state (unless you work for a VA, in which case you still need a license "somewhere" just not necessarily in the state you're working in), and in the ME/coroner world means you can't sign a death certificate (unless you are "THE" coroner, which in some jurisdictions is an absurd exception). However, I don't believe you need to have completed a residency in order to obtain a state medical license. There are evidently people out there who have opened up shop and either do basic plastics (botox, etc.) &/or essentially family care without having done so, they just can't market themselves as anything other than "M.D." -- which to many unknowing patients is quite enough. Haven't had to deal with it, so I don't know how health insurance companies view such folks...insurance may be why some reportedly gravitate to basic plastics/pseudoplastics. But.. that's another issue entirely.

Edited to add: ME/coroner legislation varies considerably, but the chief/coroner may be allowed discretion to delegate the autopsy to anyone they deem fit. Most aren't so backwards as to have any schmuck do it, nor to do it themselves without relevant training, but in very low volume or remote areas I suppose could ask any local physician, legislation allowing. In some jurisdictions the chief might co-sign a report, or co-sign on homicides/babies, etc., often by personal choice or procedure of that chief, but generally whoever does the case signs the final report (co-signatures or reviewer signatures being separate additions in certain circumstances) if that person is still available (hasn't moved, been fired, died, etc.) when the report is finalized. Again, hardly anyone these days is going to choose someone with scant incomplete pathology training to handle forensic autopsies, and few to none if that person also has no state medical license. A few places will still pick up those who have done the training but never passed their boards; those people can generally still be qualified as expert witnesses, though obviously leaving open a substantial point of attack if someone wanted to make a stink.

 

[HbyHA]

I am intersted in finding some part time work performing autopsies, and was wondering if anyone could share some knowledge about how to go about doing this. ME's, call community practice groups, look at academics? I've trained in a U.S. pathology residency program, completed one year, and did plenty of autopsies while there. However, I'm not in the program any longer. That was the extent of my residency training. I'd appreciate any info provided!

i don't get this. why would you be qualified to perform autopsies after a year of AP path training? we recently had some jackass from the med school next door basically try to bust down our office door (on the weekend of all times) to apply to work in our BIG city office ""part-time". he claimed he was told that he didn't need any education whatsoever to do the job. i was insulted for myself and all 25+ of my board certified colleagues. i guess i've been wasting my time becoming AP/CP certified (hopefully soon FP too) and doing three years of training past this.

just because they're dead DOESN'T means you can't still mess it up. would you like these people working on your dead family member? not me.

 

[KCShaw]

Sadly, not being qualified (by rational standards) doesn't mean one can't find someone to pay them to do a job, even if in limited circumstances. I think it's worth highlighting that it still goes on, even in the world of forensics where so much public interest has been placed on the field, though it doesn't appear to be "common."

Sure, the technical aspects of an uncomplicated autopsy can be learned reasonably quickly, but the interpretive component -- the purpose and meaning of the autopsy, without which there is really no point in doing it -- goes well beyond pulling out organs and gawking at big holes or ASCVD.

Before I forget, the Federation of State Medical Boards ( http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html ) lists some minimum requirements for state medical licenses broken down by state. Most seem to only require 1 year of postgraduate training, longer for an IMG, plus of course USMLE within some variable timeframe. If you believe the botox/medical aesthetic training websites then as long as there is a physician prescribing the botox (with a state license that should be doable) then it sounds like it doesn't take much to be allowed to do the procedures though that may be dependent on state law -- I've seen marketing mentions for PA's, nurses, and even dentists, for "intensive" one day injection courses. Just sayin'.

 

[scienceguy19]

Well I'm sure if pathologists start doing botox, the corporations will start catching on. Maybe there will be a division under ameripath called "ameribotox" employing pathologists.

Sadly, not being qualified (by rational standards) doesn't mean one can't find someone to pay them to do a job, even if in limited circumstances. I think it's worth highlighting that it still goes on, even in the world of forensics where so much public interest has been placed on the field, though it doesn't appear to be "common."

Sure, the technical aspects of an uncomplicated autopsy can be learned reasonably quickly, but the interpretive component -- the purpose and meaning of the autopsy, without which there is really no point in doing it -- goes well beyond pulling out organs and gawking at big holes or ASCVD.

Before I forget, the Federation of State Medical Boards ( http://www.fsmb.org/usmle_eliinitial.html ) lists some minimum requirements for state medical licenses broken down by state. Most seem to only require 1 year of postgraduate training, longer for an IMG, plus of course USMLE within some variable timeframe. If you believe the botox/medical aesthetic training websites then as long as there is a physician prescribing the botox (with a state license that should be doable) then it sounds like it doesn't take much to be allowed to do the procedures though that may be dependent on state law -- I've seen marketing mentions for PA's, nurses, and even dentists, for "intensive" one day injection courses. Just sayin'.

 

[HbyHA]

Sadly, not being qualified (by rational standards) doesn't mean one can't find someone to pay them to do a job, even if in limited circumstances. I think it's worth highlighting that it still goes on, even in the world of forensics where so much public interest has been placed on the field, though it doesn't appear to be "common."

Sad, but true.

Sure, the technical aspects of an uncomplicated autopsy can be learned reasonably quickly, but the interpretive component -- the purpose and meaning of the autopsy, without which there is really no point in doing it -- goes well beyond pulling out organs and gawking at big holes or ASCVD.

My point exactly.