Activities that are mainly online?

[Saintman41]

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Hello all,

So I'm currently volunteering at a food packing center for underprivileged children (in-person) and a hospice center helping with support groups, delivering pillows, etc. (mainly through zoom, no patient contact). Also, I'm about start tutoring underserved children in dallas (online/zoom) and volunteering with a club at my school taking blood pressure for homeless patients (online and in-person). Given the unusual circumstances, how would med school view me obtaining some of these hours via zoom instead of doing it in person (although I don't have that option).

 

[deleted1025488]

Obviously, if you literally cannot do something in person then it is what it is; with that being said, what you're doing is wonderful and definitely a great activity and the fact that it's on zoom doesn't diminish your impact. The fact that you are still able to have some in-person activities is good nonetheless. My undergraduate health advisors said that medical schools will account for stuff like this, but people here seem to think on the contrary and that you still need X numbers/benchmark or you're going to crash and burn (despite covid), so take what I said with a grain of salt.

 

[KnightDoc]

Obviously, if you literally cannot do something in person then it is what it is; with that being said, what you're doing is wonderful and definitely a great activity and the fact that it's on zoom doesn't diminish your impact. The fact that you are still able to have some in-person activities is good nonetheless. My undergraduate health advisors said that medical schools will account for stuff like this, but people here seem to think on the contrary and that you still need X numbers/benchmark or you're going to crash and burn (despite covid), so take what I said with a grain of salt.

My advisor says the same thing, and I actually think the real answer is that nobody really knows. Advisors say what makes sense to them, and the so-called experts here do the same. I am learning to take everything everyone says with a grain of salt, and to rely on my own judgment and common sense.

Adcoms here predicted there would be no MCAT accommodations because there were far more qualified applicants than available seats, and schools and AAMC didn't have to do anything. WRONG. One even predicted that COVID would prove to be so disruptive that he wouldn't be surprised if the whole application cycle was canceled. WRONG. They said applications would spike due to the bad economy. CORRECT! They now also say no substitute for in-person experiences, more than enough qualified applicants, med school isn't going anywhere, blah, blah, blah.

The correct answer will depend on what future applicant pools look like. When AAMC and the schools realized just how many applicants would be impacted with no MCAT accommodations, they figured out a way to administer a shortened exam to enough candidates to make sure that tens of thousands of potential applicants weren't excluded from the current cycle.

Same thing with ECs. If relatively few people find themselves with inadequate in-person ECs, they will find themselves SOL, like people who waited until last spring (like me 🙂) to kick ECs in high gear and just cannot compete this cycle with everyone who didn't wait until the last minute. On the other hand, if, as seems likely, tens of thousands of people find themselves in OP's position, you can take it to the bank that accommodations will be made. @joe32 is right -- right now, it is what it is, so you do the best you can. How med schools will view it will depend on how much longer the situation lasts, what the rest of your application looks like, and what the rest of the pool looks like when you apply.

 

[DNAJB6]

Easy. Just omit the "online" part. You're not lying. You did tutor under served kids. Just make sure there is a reference you can put on AMCAS for it.

 

[KnightDoc]

Easy. Just omit the "online" part. You're not lying. You did tutor under served kids. Just make sure there is a reference you can put on AMCAS for it.

I have no way to know whether or not it's going to matter, but it's certainly not going to be as easy as you imply. It's not like once the current situation is over, mass hypnosis is going to circumnavigate the globe and people aren't going to know or ask about hours spent tutoring (or doing anything else that might involve interpersonal contact) between spring 2020 and whenever life goes back to normal. 😎

 

[Blueprint Med School]

Anyone that would hold virtual volunteering against you during a pandemic is not a person you would want to work with. Keep doing good, the rest will sort itself out.

David D, MD - USMLE and MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors

 

[KnightDoc]

Anyone that would hold virtual volunteering against you during a pandemic is not a person you would want to work with. Keep doing good, the rest will sort itself out.

David D, MD - USMLE and MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors

No one is suggesting that anyone would hold virtual anything against anyone. The question is whether it will be as highly valued as in-person experiences, assuming other applicants had the opportunity to perform in-person volunteering, either before, during or after the pandemic. And the answer will depend on how many people are in that situation as a proportion of the total applicant pool.

If a lot of people are in that situation, it will be fine. Otherwise, you'll be told to come back when you have ECs comparable to everyone else. Just like everything else in this process. The schools will act in their own interests, and will make accommodations when and to the extent necessary to meet their needs, not ours.

 

[DNAJB6]

No one is suggesting that anyone would hold virtual anything against anyone. The question is whether it will be as highly valued as in-person experiences, assuming other applicants had the opportunity to perform in-person volunteering, either before, during or after the pandemic. And the answer will depend on how many people are in that situation as a proportion of the total applicant pool.

If a lot of people are in that situation, it will be fine. Otherwise, you'll be told to come back when you have ECs comparable to everyone else. Just like everything else in this process. The schools will act in their own interests, and will make accommodations when and to the extent necessary to meet their needs, not ours.

What difference does it make if it is virtual versus in person? You're giving back to the community, which is what adcoms really care about.

 

[KnightDoc]

What difference does it make if it is virtual versus in person? You're giving back to the community, which is what adcoms really care about.

I dunno. What's the difference between virtual and in-person classes, or anything? Ask schools if they would be willing to do virtual interviews permanently. What difference does it make? They are interacting with the candidates in a one-on-one setting, which is what adcoms really care about. 😎

Tutoring orgo 2 classmates and working at a soup kitchen are also both giving back to the community, but one is more valued than the other. Same thing with Peace Corps and an on campus danceathon. Etc., etc., etc. Lots of ways to give back. They are not all equal.

We'll just have to see whether or not the person who made the extra effort, or took the extra risk, or did the extra work to do something in-person gets extra credit for it. As I said, I think in-person is more valuable, and will be deemed as such by the schools, but whether it will impact a decision will depend on whether enough people have it to fill the class.

 

[DNAJB6]

I dunno. What's the difference between virtual and in-person classes, or anything? Ask schools if they would be willing to do virtual interviews permanently. What difference does it make? They are interacting with the candidates in a one-on-one setting, which is what adcoms really care about. 😎

Tutoring orgo 2 classmates and working at a soup kitchen are also both giving back to the community, but one is more valued than the other. Same thing with Peace Corps and an on campus danceathon. Etc., etc., etc. Lots of ways to give back. They are not all equal.

We'll just have to see whether or not the person who made the extra effort, or took the extra risk, or did the extra work to do something in-person gets extra credit for it. As I said, I think in-person is more valuable, and will be deemed as such by the schools, but whether it will impact a decision will depend on whether enough people have it to fill the class.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Virtual classes can affect your learning outcome, especially if lab portions are being discontinued or if it is a subject that does not lend itself well to virtual learning. It also increases opportunities for cheating on exams potentially. Virtual interviews deny or limit the ability of interviewers to assess body language which is useful for, among other things, assessing truthfulness and how an applicant carries himself or herself. Virtual tutoring may affect the ability of the person being tutored, but it doesn't change what you've done. Theoretically, from an admissions perspective, they couldn't care less how well the person being tutored does and would have no way to find out. If verifying your application, I doubt few would even think to ask if it was virtual versus in person.

 

[KnightDoc]

You're comparing apples and oranges. Virtual classes can affect your learning outcome, especially if lab portions are being discontinued or if it is a subject that does not lend itself well to virtual learning. It also increases opportunities for cheating on exams potentially. Virtual interviews deny or limit the ability of interviewers to assess body language which is useful for, among other things, assessing truthfulness and how an applicant carries himself or herself. Virtual tutoring may affect the ability of the person being tutored, but it doesn't change what you've done. Theoretically, from an admissions perspective, they couldn't care less how well the person being tutored does and would have no way to find out. If verifying your application, I doubt few would even think to ask if it was virtual versus in person.

Okay, but to the extent that adcoms have stated one of the things they look for in our activities is a willingness to expand outside our comfort zone, I would point out that my living room and bedroom are the absolute epicenter of my comfort zone, regardless of whatever it is that I am doing online (volunteering, interviewing, playing video games, watching videos, etc.).

It's true that adcoms how no way to know how effective or valuable our tutoring is, but it really is the height of cynicism to think they don't care. If they really didn't care, they wouldn't make it an expectation. Unfortunately, however, I'm afraid you are correctly capturing the thoughts of many of the volunteers.

 

[deleted1025488]

How med schools will view it will depend on how much longer the situation lasts, what the rest of your application looks like, and what the rest of the pool looks like when you apply.

I see people say this a lot but I don't buy it. Our clinical volunteering programs through the university were just suspended further through Jan 21 2021. Our healthcare advisors have been astute when noting that we shouldn't have to worry about it if you have prior experience that was cut off; that is if you were in the program beforehand.

I could see how zero volunteering and zero shadowing/clinical experience could look bad, but this notion that you have to reach X milestone and if you don't your F'd doesn't sit right with me. I'm sure everyone could go to the clinic when it re-opens in early 2021 and just do 200 hours in 2 months or something, but what is the point of that other than to fit some arbitrary number metric? This actively just encourages a lack of initiative and motivation in clinical volunteering. At my program juniors would already pretty much just do cards/bands the whole day (essentially zero patient interaction just sitting in a corner on their phones making wrist bands for new patients), I can't imagine what's going to happen come 2021 if people keep propagating the idea that you have to have 300+ X hours or you have zero chance at admissions coupled with the fact that everyone is hovering around 75-125 in our program. Hate the game not the player I suppose. Oh well.

And if you're implying, by this clinical benchmark logic, that our entire class will have to take a gap year, I also don't buy it.

 

[KnightDoc]

I see people say this a lot but I don't buy it. Our clinical volunteering programs through the university were just suspended further through Jan 21 2021. Our healthcare advisors have been astute when noting that we shouldn't have to worry about it if you have prior experience that was cut off; that is if you were in the program beforehand.

I could see how zero volunteering and zero shadowing/clinical experience could look bad, but this notion that you have to reach X milestone and if you don't your F'd doesn't sit right with me. I'm sure everyone could go to the clinic when it re-opens in early 2021 and just do 200 hours in 2 months or something, but what is the point of that other than to fit some arbitrary number metric? This actively just encourages a lack of initiative and motivation in clinical volunteering. At my program juniors would already pretty much just do cards/bands the whole day (essentially zero patient interaction just sitting in a corner on their phones making wrist bands for new patients), I can't imagine what's going to happen come 2021 if people keep propagating the idea that you have to have 300+ X hours or you have zero chance at admissions coupled with the fact that everyone is hovering around 75-125 in our program. Hate the game not the player I suppose. Oh well.

And if you're implying, by this clinical benchmark logic, that our entire class will have to take a gap year, I also don't buy it.

???? I'm not sure what you're arguing about, because I agree with you. Hate the game, not the player, or the messenger! 😎

If no one has 300+ hours, everyone will be fine. If your school turns out to be an outlier, and you guys don't use your initiative and motivation to find substitute experiences, yeah, your class won't be competitive with everyone else's class. You're being compared to the rest of the pool, not an arbitrary benchmark. A generation ago, no one had any of the these hours, and everyone was fine. What's new?

I agree with you, and also believe the majority of the pool will be light next year. If we are wrong, we'll be looking at an additional gap year.

 

[deleted1025488]

???? I'm not sure what you're arguing about, because I agree with you. Hate the game, not the player, or the messenger! 😎

If no one has 300+ hours, everyone will be fine. If your school turns out to be an outlier, and you guys don't use your initiative and motivation to find substitute experiences, yeah, your class won't be competitive with everyone else's class. You're being compared to the rest of the pool, not an arbitrary benchmark. A generation ago, no one had any of the these hours, and everyone was fine. What's new?

I agree with you, and also believe the majority of the pool will be light next year. If we are wrong, we'll be looking at an additional gap year.

Oh I wasn't arguing. I was just outlining what my health advisors told our class. Nonetheless, access to clinical opportunities is quite variant; as I mentioned most of my class has very low clinical hours, probably significantly so relative to other peer schools. Despite this, a lot of us have taken a strong initiative in helping with COVID-related issues. I would ask, what would be more beneficial, an additional 150 hours in a clinic (given some clinical experience) or 150 hours helping to improve health literacy and COVID awareness in low-income schools and communities? If the average applicant has 300 hours but nothing like the former experience, we would have to take a gap year for "low" (relative) clinical hours? I would think if you make some sort of strong initiative to help how you can you would be adequately compensated. I doubt a 150 vs 300 or whatever clinical hour discrepancy would matter, provided you did something else with your time, but again I may be wrong. Maybe it's just checkboxes 🙂