Adcoms: Why do you contact authors of LORs?

[Darrow O'Lykos]

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A question for the Adcom members of SDN:

Is it common practice at your school (or schools you've worked at previously) to contact the authors of letters of recommendation for an applicant that has interviewed at your school? What are some of your reasons for doing this? Are you looking for a greater sense of who the applicant is as an individual? Do you only do it when you have a question or are seeking clarification about the author's relationship with the applicant?

Context: I learned that the dean of admissions at a school I interviewed at reached out to one of my recommenders and requested a call with them. It is a doctor that I've worked with daily for 3.5 years, so I have no concerns whatsoever, I'm just genuinely curious why a school would do this.

Cheers!

 

[throwawayaeiou]

To add to this question, do medical schools ever actually contact the people you list on the activities?

 

[deleted965528]

To add to this question, do medical schools ever actually contact the people you list on the activities?

Yes. Although uncommon, there have been reports of contacts notifying applicants that they have been contacted.

 

[Med Ed]

To add to this question, do medical schools ever actually contact the people you list on the activities?

For accepted students who plan on matriculating with us we contact every single one.

 

[valkirieas]

For accepted students who plan on matriculating with us we contact every single one.

How does this work out for people who are working, where their employers are not aware of an applicants plans to leave for med school? I was a bit concerned putting my current employer in AMCAS since they would not be supportive at all, so I'm just wondering how the call is likely to go (ie. is it stated that XYZ has applied to this school and we're doing a check or is it kept vague like can you comment on XYZs role here?)

 

[Dr panda]

For accepted students who plan on matriculating with us we contact every single one.

What if you are unable to reach the person (vacation/illness/etc)?

 

[readmypostsMD]

Yes. Although uncommon, there have been reports of contacts notifying applicants that they have been contacted.

For accepted students who plan on matriculating with us we contact every single one.

I don’t believe this troll. Why would you do it post-A?

 

[KnightDoc]

I don’t believe this troll. Why would you do it post-A?

It sounds like it's not post-A, it's post decision to matriculate. At that point, you are leaving soon to go to med school, so an employer's lack of support is irrelevant at that point!!! 🙂

 

[KnightDoc]

How does this work out for people who are working, where their employers are not aware of an applicants plans to leave for med school? I was a bit concerned putting my current employer in AMCAS since they would not be supportive at all, so I'm just wondering how the call is likely to go (ie. is it stated that XYZ has applied to this school and we're doing a check or is it kept vague like can you comment on XYZs role here?)

Does it really matter, since by that point you've already made a commitment to matriculate (i.e., whether you quit two weeks before school starts or are fired three weeks before school starts)? Or maybe, they are contacted after school starts, it turns out they don't know who you are, and then school ends prematurely! 🙂

 

[Goro]

I don’t believe this troll. Why would you do it post-A?

Med ed is a Dean at a medical school...he's definitely NOT a troll. SDN requires two verification from faculty, BTW.

And it's called doing due diligence. Why waste time checking references from 5-10000 applicants when you can do it for 100-200 acceptees.

 

[Goro]

A question for the Adcom members of SDN:

Is it common practice at your school (or schools you've worked at previously) to contact the authors of letters of recommendation for an applicant that has interviewed at your school? What are some of your reasons for doing this? Are you looking for a greater sense of who the applicant is as an individual? Do you only do it when you have a question or are seeking clarification about the author's relationship with the applicant?

Context: I learned that the dean of admissions at a school I interviewed at reached out to one of my recommenders and requested a call with them. It is a doctor that I've worked with daily for 3.5 years, so I have no concerns whatsoever, I'm just genuinely curious why a school would do this.

Cheers!

I've contacted LOR writers when I see something that doesn't match between a candidate's app vs the LOR. This is VERY rare for me.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

For accepted students who plan on matriculating with us we contact every single one.

Interesting. So you do this after you've already accepted and notified the applicant? Or instead, do you contact ones you feel very strongly about and this sort of call could push a candidate to a "yes" instead of other outcomes?

Keeping my fingers crossed that regardless, this is a positive omen! I'm a urm non-trad that has had some tough breaks barely getting interviews at different schools for multiple cycles. This particular school was one that was one that left my thoroughly impressed on interview day and one that I'd be overjoyed to attend if accepted.

I'll post a reply to this thread once I hear from the school one way or the other for any interested parties viewing the post.

 

[readmypostsMD]

Med ed is a Dean at a medical school...he's definitely NOT a troll. SDN requires two verification from faculty, BTW.

And it's called doing due diligence. Why waste time checking references from 5-10000 applicants when you can do it for 100-200 acceptees.

Ah I see, I see. I know so many people who severely stretched the truth on their activities sections, but matriculated anyway.

Do adcoms realize how common this is?

Also, I’m curious. What’s the motivation for faculty to post on sdn? I imagine you all are so outrageously busy, and I’m guessing there’s no financial incentive

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

Also, I’m curious. What’s the motivation for faculty to post on sdn? I imagine you all are so outrageously busy, and I’m guessing there’s no financial incentive

To put it bluntly, there are decent people in the world who want to help others navigate and understand a difficult process to help them achieve their hopes and dreams. I imagine if I were in their shoes, I'd come around posts on this forum every now and then to help share perspectives given the juxtaposition in the POV of a first time applicant to that of an AdCom member (who likely practices medicine as well).

 

[KnightDoc]

Interesting. So you do this after you've already accepted and notified the applicant? Or instead, do you contact ones you feel very strongly about and this sort of call could push a candidate to a "yes" instead of other outcomes?

Keeping my fingers crossed that regardless, this is a positive omen! I'm a urm non-trad that has had some tough breaks barely getting interviews at different schools for multiple cycles. This particular school was one that was one that left my thoroughly impressed on interview day and one that I'd be overjoyed to attend if accepted.

I'll post a reply to this thread once I hear from the school one way or the other for any interested parties viewing the post.

I think he said "accepted students who plan on matriculating," so it's at the very end of cycle, to verify information on the application, and isn't used to determine any outcome, other than maybe rescinding an acceptance if it turns out someone lied on an application.

 

[deleted1001426]

and then what do you do? Kick the ones out who don't check out? And those you kicked out might have been able to enroll somewhere else... what's your rationale for doing that? shouldn't you contact every single of them before you accept the students??

if you included a large enough lie on your app for an A to be rescinded I assume they wouldnt care if that meant you couldnt enroll elsewhere. In fact if I had to guess I'd say they probably would report you to the aamc and all of your As would be rescinded.

 

[KnightDoc]

and then what do you do? Kick the ones out who don't check out? And those you kicked out might have been able to enroll somewhere else... what's your rationale for doing that? shouldn't you contact every single of them before you accept the students??

I think @Goro said they don't have the time or resources to vet every candidate, so they focus on the matriculants, on the theory that people aren't lying on their applications. I am also pretty sure the working assumption is that anyone kicked out for lying wouldn't be able to enroll anywhere else, for the very same reason, so there is no reason to do it beforehand, while all of us should know the consequences of being caught lying going in.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

I feel it’s worth repeating that I haven’t been accepted to this school yet, so this isn’t so much a “okay they’re accepted let’s check their app”, or at least not from the side of the applicant.

whatever the reason, I have no problem with it, haha.

 

[Goro]

Ah I see, I see. I know so many people who severely stretched the truth on their activities sections, but matriculated anyway.

Do adcoms realize how common this is?

Also, I’m curious. What’s the motivation for faculty to post on sdn? I imagine you all are so outrageously busy, and I’m guessing there’s no financial incentive

I like helping people get into med school, and to help medical students succeed. I also learn a lot from my colleagues here, of all ages.

 

[deleted1001426]

I like helping people get into.med school, and to help medical students succeed. I also learn a lot from my colleagues here, of all ages.

sure thats why... we all know youre here for the same reason as the rest of us..the memes

 

[valkirieas]

Does it really matter, since by that point you've already made a commitment to matriculate (i.e., whether you quit two weeks before school starts or are fired three weeks before school starts)? Or maybe, they are contacted after school starts, it turns out they don't know who you are, and then school ends prematurely! 🙂

I suppose I was more wondering if they'd be contacted much sooner, like April. And it doesn't entirely matter, but I just would like to know so I can prepare accordingly. I was not planning on telling my job the specifics behind why I'm leaving since I wanted to keep things amicable, but if they'll find out anyway then I guess I don't need to be quite so careful.

(Also, awkward story: my boss straight up asked me in August if I'm going "to leave in a year for med school or something"....to which I stumbled through a vague answer that seemed to relax him....Not like I know how this is all gonna turn out!)

 

[hydrophobicmed]

For accepted students who plan on matriculating with us we contact every single one.

logistically impossible, legally dubious. Please do not add more stress to a process that's already completely random and full of subjectivity. If your school does that, please put it on your website so let that be known to everyone. It's not a "oh we gotcha" game. If your school really believed that was a good process, I would hire a really good First-Amendment lawyer to check it out and stand by.

 

[hydrophobicmed]

I like helping people get into.med school, and to help medical students succeed. I also learn a lot from my colleagues here, of all ages.

Can you shed light on how DO adcoms understand so much about MD admissions process? You look at a completely different set of applicants.

 

[Goro]

Can you shed light on how DO adcoms understand so much about MD admissions process? You look at a completely different set of applicants.

We're not idiots.
We go to medical education conferences.
We have colleagues at many different MD schools
DO schools have MD faculty.
We do the same thing, we train medical students.. Therefore our goals are the same....we want people who will be good students and more importantly, good doctors.

You seem to be triggered by the idea that medical schools will check on acceptees.

Is there something in your app that should not be there? Or something not in your app that should be there?

I have to warn you that if you lied on your app and you get caught, your acceptance will be rescinded.

If it is discovered after you matriculate, you can be dismissed, and that can go as far as up until graduation as well. There's case precedent for this.

And since you have no experience in medical school admissions, don't go talking about what admissions offices can and cannot do.

 

[deleted1001426]

logistically impossible, legally dubious. Please do not add more stress to a process that's already completely random and full of subjectivity. If your school does that, please put it on your website so let that be known to everyone. It's not a "oh we gotcha" game. If your school really believed that was a good process, I would hire a really good First-Amendment lawyer to check it out and stand by.

I don’t see how this adds stress to the process..I’d hope the vast majority of applicants arent including flagrant lies on their apps and as far as I’ve been told that’s what will get your a rescinded, not overestimating hours or minor discrepancies.

Do you also think that requiring matriculants to pass a background check is unfair and adds undue stress to the process? Probably a bad question considering the number of “I have a speeding ticket for going 3mph over the speed limit..should I notify schools and will this cause my a to be rescinded if it comes up on a background check” posts I’ve read in the past few days

 

[readmypostsMD]

Can you shed light on how DO adcoms understand so much about MD admissions process? You look at a completely different set of applicants.

I’m guessing they’re similar enough that he/she has helpful insight?

 

[hydrophobicmed]

I don’t see how this adds stress to the process..I’d hope the vast majority of applicants arent including flagrant lies on their apps and as far as I’ve been told that’s what will get your a rescinded, not overestimating hours or minor discrepancies.

Do you also think that requiring matriculants to pass a background check is unfair and adds undue stress to the process? Probably a bad question considering the number of “I have a speeding ticket for going 3mph over the speed limit..should I notify schools and will this cause my a to be rescinded if it comes up on a background check” posts I’ve read in the past few days

the stress coming from the fact what if they can't get in touch with your recommenders for whatever reason. We all went through begging for a letter and waiting for a while for that letter to arrive...

 

[hydrophobicmed]

We're not idiots.
We go to medical education conferences.
We have colleagues at many different MD schools
DO schools have MD faculty.
We do the same thing, we train medical students.. Therefore our goals are the same....we want people who will be good students and more importantly, good doctors.

You seem to be triggered by the idea that medical schools will check on acceptees.

Is there something in your app that should not be there? Or something not in your app that should be there?

I have to warn you that if you lied on your app and you get caught, your acceptance will be rescinded.

If it is discovered after you matriculate, you can be dismissed, and that can go as far as up until graduation as well. There's case precedent for this.

And since you have no experience in medical school admissions, don't go talking about what admissions offices can and cannot do.

stop taking everything so personal and being so defensive. No one required you to answer that question. if you feel slighted, just ignore my question. TBH, you seem triggered.

 

[deleted1001426]

the stress coming from the fact what if they can't get in touch with your recommenders for whatever reason. We all went through begging for a letter and waiting for a while for that letter to arrive...

You’re thinking too deep into this..no reasonable person would hold it against you if your LOR writer didn’t respond to a phone call or email from a school and if they did it would likely be due to some other red flag on your app which raised concern for dishonesty.

Schools aren’t out to get you..all they want to do is confirm that you’re the candidate that you advertised on your app

 

[hydrophobicmed]

I’m guessing they’re similar enough that he/she has helpful insight?

perhaps, but let's be honest, DO's look at applicants with a different lens.

 

[hydrophobicmed]

You’re thinking too deep into this..no reasonable person would hold it against you if your LOR writer didn’t respond to a phone call or email from a school and if they did it would likely be due to some other red flag on your app which raised concern for dishonesty

but the other dude said they would check every single of them. I assume that means they need to get verfiication from every single of them. It's just another logistic hurdle we, as applicants, have to worry about.

 

[deleted1001426]

but the other dude said they would check every single of them. I assume that means they need to get verfiication from every single of them. It's just another logistic hurdle we, as applicants, have to worry about.

He/she said they contact every LOR writer, not that they instantly rescind offers of people who’s writers dint answer the phone when an anonymous number calls. They’re rational people who understand that people miss calls, change their numbers and that emails occasionally go to spam etc. if they really wasn’t to verify something with one of your writers and they can’t contact them they’d likely just reach out to you for additional contact info.

There are 10000s of things for us to worry about during this process. This isn’t one of them

 

[hydrophobicmed]

He/she said they contact every LOR writer, not that they instantly rescind offers of people who’s writers dint answer the phone when an anonymous number calls. They’re rational people who understand that people miss calls, change their numbers and that emails occasionally go to spam etc. if they really wasn’t to verify something with one of your writers and they can’t contact them they’d likely just reach out to you for additional contact info.

There are 10000s of things for us to worry about during this process. This isn’t one of them

thanks for the clarification and mollification of our neuroticism spiked up by this arduous ordeal that otherwise could be done in a more fair and efficient way.

 

[deleted1001426]

otherwise could be done in a more fair and efficient way.

No argument from me here lol. This process blows

 

[Goro]

stop taking everything so personal and being so defensive. No one required you to answer that question. if you feel slighted, just ignore my question. TBH, you seem triggered.

Hmmmm.....so you did lie on your app. Well, your medical career is over.

That sound you hear off in the distance is the Banhammer being cocked.

 

[valkirieas]

thanks for the clarification and mollification of our neuroticism spiked up by this arduous ordeal that otherwise could be done in a more fair and efficient way.

Don't act like neuroticism is an excuse to be inconsiderate. Neuroticism is one thing, letting it rule over you and be consumed by it is another. If you're so stressed out there's better ways to process it than jumping at the necks of people just trying to shed some light on the process.

 

[thumbz]

Children, this is why you don't lie on your med school apps. Imagine living 4 years of your life in daily fear that your lie will be exposed and you will be expelled.... this is on top of the stress that already comes with being a med student. May as well buy stock in Prilosec at that point as you'll be using so much of it.

 

[gyngyn]

It appears that this thread has run its course.