Additional pharmacy schools, lol

[Hope1974]

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3058448/

 

[tootoo30]

Great article!

 

[zidane85]

This should be posted in the pre-pharmacy forum

 

[New Bee]

A bit ironic considering the author is from Palm Beach Atlantic University

 

[rph3664]

It's even more relevant now.

 

[wucool33]

A bit ironic considering the author is from Palm Beach Atlantic University

Aren't we all like this... "You can't do this!!! But I can!!!" Lol

 

[hereticmnk]

Response to that article

 

[deleted205891]

Response to that article

He's not even a pharmacist. Doctor in Medical Humanities, really?

Also, could this be a justification for the Medco school of pharmacy?

 

[konkan]

I agree. This guy is a @#%$%$ hypocrite. Wants to close the door after him. Kind of - never mind that we just opened another diploma mill school, but after us, yeah, there should be no more new schools.

 

[hereticmnk]

He's not even a pharmacist. Doctor in Medical Humanities, really?

Also, could this be a justification for the Medco school of pharmacy?

Have yet to find a good argument for expanding enrollment.
Medco school of pharmacy probably wouldn't hire their own graduates.

I agree. This guy is a @#%$%$ hypocrite. Wants to close the door after him. Kind of - never mind that we just opened another diploma mill school, but after us, yeah, there should be no more new schools.

Are you referring to the author of the article that OP posted? You would be right in saying that I suppose. I googled him and he does seem to be the dean of a small diploma mill'qesque school.

 

[confettiflyer]

I thought pharmacists had it rough:

Http://nyti.ms/13CRWEf

312k debt for a job that averages 45k/yr

 

[kwakster928]

I thought pharmacists had it rough:

Http://nyti.ms/13CRWEf

312k debt for a job that averages 45k/yr

Ha! I just read that. Astonishing.

 

[Momus]

Understated salary. Vet makes avg $70-80k

 

[kwakster928]

Understated salary. Vet makes avg $70-80k

Even with that 300k debt load is just unbelievable.

 

[hereticmnk]

I thought pharmacists had it rough:

Http://nyti.ms/13CRWEf

312k debt for a job that averages 45k/yr

Sounds eerily familiar

For years, the veterinary medical association contended that the United States needed more vets, not fewer, especially in rural areas. To support this view, in 2007, the organization helped underwrite a study, hoping to bolster a call for government assistance to help meet a putative shortfall of 15,000 vets by 2024.

 

[pharm B]

The small number of schools, the length of the application cycle (and I assume a number of applicants go through several cycles), and the debt/pay ratio at the end make me think most vets are in it for the love of the work they do.

 

[BMBiology]

I thought pharmacists had it rough:

Http://nyti.ms/13CRWEf

"Today, her debt exceeds her salary by a factor of five — much higher than the recommended twice-starting-salary ratio. She signed up for income-based repayment, a government program available to federal student loan recipients. (A newer program with slightly more generous terms, called Pay As You Earn, or PAYE, is available to more recent graduates.) Both income-based repayment and PAYE allow graduates to lead relatively normal lives by paying back a modest percentage of their income based on a formula. After a fixed amount of time, from 10 to 25 years, the balance of the debt is discharged.

That’s the good news. The bad news is that the interest on the debt keeps growing and taxes must be paid on the amount discharged, as if it is a gift. Dr. Schafer sends $400 a month to Sallie Mae, a sum that will rise. But what kind of tax bill awaits her? Asked to run the numbers, GL Advisor, a financial services company that specializes in student loans, calculated that Dr. Schafer’s debt is likely to exceed $650,000 when her tax bill lands 25 years after the start of the loan, which means she will owe the Internal Revenue Service roughly $200,000. That will happen while she is still deep in her career, perhaps around the time she wants to send some children to college."

 

[pharm B]

That’s the good news. The bad news is that the interest on the debt keeps growing and taxes must be paid on the amount discharged, as if it is a gift. Dr. Schafer sends $400 a month to Sallie Mae, a sum that will rise. But what kind of tax bill awaits her? Asked to run the numbers, GL Advisor, a financial services company that specializes in student loans, calculated that Dr. Schafer’s debt is likely to exceed $650,000 when her tax bill lands 25 years after the start of the loan, which means she will owe the Internal Revenue Service roughly $200,000. That will happen while she is still deep in her career, perhaps around the time she wants to send some children to college."

Holy crap.

 

[hereticmnk]

Holy crap.

 

[tungsten87]

just wanted to say this:

despite all the complaining and doom/gloom that goes on here, i'm glad i've known about it through school and have been able to prepare adequately via networking, doing the right things to be a good candidate, etc. although it's probably caused some unneeded stress, the majority of pharmacy students are clueless and will be in for a serious reality check once they graduate.

 

[radio frequency]

just wanted to say this:

despite all the complaining and doom/gloom that goes on here, i'm glad i've known about it through school and have been able to prepare adequately via networking, doing the right things to be a good candidate, etc. although it's probably caused some unneeded stress, the majority of pharmacy students are clueless and will be in for a serious reality check once they graduate.

You must not go to my school. I feel like the angst and worry about jobs is palpable when I walk down the hallway. And my school is pretty highly ranked...

But yes, this forum is helpful, even though somewhat depressing. At least it's a reality check.

 

[358265]

just wanted to say this:

despite all the complaining and doom/gloom that goes on here, i'm glad i've known about it through school and have been able to prepare adequately via networking, doing the right things to be a good candidate, etc. although it's probably caused some unneeded stress, the majority of pharmacy students are clueless and will be in for a serious reality check once they graduate.

Agreed. If you go into this field knowing what you're about to face, then it all makes sense. However, this is true for only maybe a couple percentage of pharmacy students.

 

[BrightLight]

I like one reader's comment [I substituted one word]: "Ultimately, rising tuition will do little to impact the number of applicants. There will always be starry-eyed teenagers who want to be pharmers. They think 'the money won't matter' because they'll be doing what they love... until they graduate and realize how stressful/unpleasant the job is and that there need to be monetary rewards for those efforts."

People in the vets field must have foreseen the current saturation and warned about it, yet people still jump into this financial swamp and get drown in school debts. Pharmacy bubble has not burst like veterinary yet, but there is no reason why we won't be there in near future.

 

[universalcynic]

I like one reader's comment [I substituted one word]: "Ultimately, rising tuition will do little to impact the number of applicants. There will always be starry-eyed teenagers who want to be pharmers. They think 'the money won't matter' because they'll be doing what they love... until they graduate and realize how stressful/unpleasant the job is and that there need to be monetary rewards for those efforts."

People in the vets field must have foreseen the current saturation and warned about it, yet people still jump into this financial swamp and get drown in school debts. Pharmacy bubble has not burst like veterinary yet, but there is no reason why we won't be there in near future.

Eh, I don't think that sentiment you quoted is quite as applicable to pharmacy. I think veterinary med is a field that's exceptional that way. There are tons of people who really feel deeply passionate about helping animals, and tons of little kids who say they want to be a vet when they grow up. How many little kids say they want to be a pharmacist when they grow up?

I agree a lot of pre-pharmacy students may fail to realize the financial reality of pharmacy school debt, but overall I think they are a whole lot more concerned about money than pre-vet students.

 

[JoBreeze]

Eh, I don't think that sentiment you quoted is quite as applicable to pharmacy. I think veterinary med is a field that's exceptional that way. There are tons of people who really feel deeply passionate about helping animals, and tons of little kids who say they want to be a vet when they grow up. How many little kids say they want to be a pharmacist when they grow up?

I agree a lot of pre-pharmacy students may fail to realize the financial reality of pharmacy school debt, but overall I think they are a whole lot more concerned about money than pre-vet students.

Exactly. Pharmacy cannot compare to vet in this way. Salaries drop below 80k, and the applicant pool will follow suit.

 

[confettiflyer]

Hell I feel deeply passionate about traveling and taking photos but i was smart enough to know that unless I was Ansel Adams, going that way was a one way ticket to poverty.

 

[confettiflyer]

just wanted to say this:

despite all the complaining and doom/gloom that goes on here, i'm glad i've known about it through school and have been able to prepare adequately via networking, doing the right things to be a good candidate, etc. although it's probably caused some unneeded stress, the majority of pharmacy students are clueless and will be in for a serious reality check once they graduate.

The problem is: even us PGY1's are anxious about the job market...arguably we are better networked with decision makers than P4's and are more shovel ready than students. if there's no budget to hire...you can be Jesus walking on water and still not get hired.

But yes I generally agree with you.

 

[BMBiology]

Exactly. Pharmacy cannot compare to vet in this way. Salaries drop below 80k, and the applicant pool will follow suit.

I disagree. Plenty of pharmacy technicians would love to become a pharmacist, even if they have to borrow 300 k just so they can make 80 k a year. That is still better than making 10$ an hour as a tech. All the schools have to do is lower the standards. That is exactly what is happening. Just check out the pre pharm forum. It used to mean something to get accepted to a pharmacy school. Now, it is a big joke.

 

[Temperature101]

I agree. This guy is a @#%$%$ hypocrite. Wants to close the door after him. Kind of - never mind that we just opened another diploma mill school, but after us, yeah, there should be no more new schools.

Palm Beach Atlantic is not a bad school... I think they should stop that nonsense expansion of pharm schools. Are there any entities that can do that? I think this same nonsense is happening in medicine right before our eyes now. DO schools are expending in an alarming rate.

 

[awval999]

I disagree. Plenty of pharmacy technicians would love to become a pharmacist, even if they have to borrow 300 k just so they can make 80 k a year. That is still better than making 10$ an hour as a tech. All the schools have to do is lower the standards. That is exactly what is happening. Just check out the pre pharm forum. It used to mean something to get accepted to a pharmacy school. Now, it is a big joke.

Plenty of pharmacy technicians think they want to be pharmacists but they honestly couldn't hack the school or the job. Also many pharmacy technicians have chosen family over career. You can tell because they typically start their families before pharmacists do.

 

[pezdispenser]

I disagree. Plenty of pharmacy technicians would love to become a pharmacist, even if they have to borrow 300 k just so they can make 80 k a year. That is still better than making 10$ an hour as a tech. All the schools have to do is lower the standards. That is exactly what is happening. Just check out the pre pharm forum. It used to mean something to get accepted to a pharmacy school. Now, it is a big joke.

tsk, tsk. No mention of IBR in that post??

 

[BMBiology]

tsk, tsk. No mention of IBR in that post??

I think the people on this forum get the message.

Most techs I know don't have the commitment to finish pharmacy schools but that doesn't mean they can't get accepted..just do their pre-req at at JC where it is not difficult to get Bs and off to pharmacy school they go! These for-profit schools don't care if they qualify or not, just as long as they meet the pre-reqs and have their government check in hand.

 

[hellopeople]

This calms my nerves somewhat. Ppl panic about the 1- 3 new schools a year opening in dentistry, the newly accredited scools in Mexico and India, massive coorporate expansion, the recent introduction of midlevel providers (two-year post high school dentists), etc.

But... I've been touring the other forums for the last 40 min, and you're all freaking about the same stuff.

Maybe, just maybe, ppl here are just complainers.

Or maybe we are all screwed. 😀

Sent from my LG-MS690 using Tapatalk

 

[confettiflyer]

Or maybe we are all screwed. 😀

I shall subscribe to this idea, haha.

 

[iamaninja]

I agree with the article written by Daniel Brown. His points are all spot on and he is positioned fairly well to make these assessments, he was the Dean at Palm Beach Atlantic University and his wife was also the Dean at PBA at one point and they both have worked with pharmacy schools in administration for years now. PBA started its Pharmacy school in 2001 and at that point there was still a pharmacy shortage, now its out of control and worth more and more schools its going to get worse, its going to drive pay and working conditions down.

 

[JoBreeze]

I disagree. Plenty of pharmacy technicians would love to become a pharmacist, even if they have to borrow 300 k just so they can make 80 k a year. That is still better than making 10$ an hour as a tech. All the schools have to do is lower the standards. That is exactly what is happening. Just check out the pre pharm forum. It used to mean something to get accepted to a pharmacy school. Now, it is a big joke.

No doubt. You didn't get the point.

 

[owlegrad]

tsk, tsk. No mention of IBR in that post??

This made me laugh so hard. Thanks for that!

 

[owlegrad]

Maybe, just maybe, ppl here are just complainers.

Nope, it is a nightmarish hellscape where the big bad pharmacy schools prey on the poor naive students to milk them dry. And the chains have a soul extractor they use on all new hires. Also obamacare, robots, mail order. I am sure I am forgetting something but it has been a long day.

 

[BMBiology]

There's an article on nurses.

"It's a problem well documented by the nursing industry. About 43% of newly licensed RNs still do not have jobs within 18 months after graduation, according to a survey conducted by the American Society of Registered Nurses"

http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/14/news/economy/nursing-jobs-new-grads/index.html?iid=HP_MPM

 

[JohnFe]

I'm a very optimistic person but reading all these threads and articles make me quadruple think about pharmacy...

Anyway good read

 

[Farcus]

I'm a very optimistic person but reading all these threads and articles make me quadruple think about pharmacy...

Anyway good read

Don't think run

 

[Digsbe]

I think it's one thing to realistically evaluate the impact new schools will have, but I also think there is such a thing as overreacting and living in a negative mindset.