Admissions Advice.

[Doctor Ham]

I see a lot of advice get thrown around here, and a lot of people questioning admissions decisions. I'm an admissions committee member for a vet school that receives a large volume of out of state applicants, and has a holistic admissions process. Many schools will offer individual file reviews for denied applicants, but for those who may be wondering why they were not admitted, I wanted to share some advice from the perspective of a practicing veterinarian who participates in the admissions process:

1. No one cares about your C in organic chemistry. Really. Perfect grades suggest that you might be a good student, but we are looking to admit people who will succeed in vet school and become good veterinarians. Grades are not everything. We would much rather see someone have good life experiences (including work experience - doesn't have to be in the vet field!!) than perfect grades.
2. Have multiple people give you feedback on your written responses. We get a large number of essays that sound very immature, or don't directly answer the prompt. Check your spelling and grammar, please.
3. Having good depth (ie length of time in one place) and variety of experiences are both important. When someone has been an assistant at a small animal clinic for 2 years, but claims that they want to practice on horses without any evidence of equine experience, it makes us question how well they've really thought about this. We need to feel that you understand what you're signing up for.
4. Make sure you include all relevant items on your application - and don't add things just to fill a category. Things that happened in high school? Unless it's something meaningful that continues in your life (Boy Scouts, 4H, Pony Club are good examples), leave it off. Being 2nd chair flute in 9th grade is not relevant to your application. Being a 4H member for 10 years is great. If you grew up on a family farm, make sure that experience is somewhere in your application. We see people who casually mention things like that in a personal statement, but don't add that experience anywhere, and you're really selling yourself short to leave it off.
5. You need to know that your letter writers are going to write you a good letter. I see a lot of people who say that they think they have strong letters because they have multiple vets writing them, but some of the things we see in those letters are absolutely the difference between admission and denial. A common theme - in the letter, a vet will mention that they haven't known this applicant for more than a couple of months and was surprised to be asked for a letter, or will state that they don't know the applicant well and don't think they have a good understanding of the profession. Other red flags in letters are comments about poor reactions to criticism or weak communication skills.

It's a competitive process, and making decisions is incredibly difficult. There are plenty of people who are completely qualified and would probably do well, and we just don't have the space to admit. Multiple people read the applications and it's a huge endeavor (that we do on a volunteer basis, because the admissions committee is a group who cares about the future of our profession).

If you have general questions, I am happy to try and answer them. If you have specific questions about your application, or a specific school, I would direct your questions to the review process for the school(s) you have applied to. Good luck.

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[ashes7]

This is a very vague question but I have always had a difficult time determining whether or not to email admissions thanking them after interviews. What is your opinion on this?

 

[happybirdnerd]

Do you feel like it's better to have a wide breadth of experience but fewer hours, or to spend more time building deeper experiences in fewer places?

 

[Doctor Ham]

This is a very vague question but I have always had a difficult time determining whether or not to email admissions thanking them after interviews. What is your opinion on this?

If the interview is one on one, or with only a couple individuals, then a thank you is nice but absolutely not necessary. For committee style interviews, like MMIs, definitely not. If the school provides you with a direct contact for your interviewers, a brief note is fine, but don't go out of your way to hunt them down.

 

[Doctor Ham]

Do you feel like it's better to have a wide breadth of experience but fewer hours, or to spend more time building deeper experiences in fewer places?

I think....it depends. I like to see that applicants have experienced different facets of veterinary medicine, so that they have a better understanding of what the career entails. We know that there is only so much time people have available, however, so it can be hard to make time to get those hours. For me the most important thing is that you have the experience to back up what you're saying in the rest of your application. I'm not sure if people think that saying they want to do zoo or wildlife will help them stand out, so they state that as their career goal? But then will have minimal hours in that field. It makes it seem like their application isn't well-prepared.

 

[flotus]

I think....it depends. I like to see that applicants have experienced different facets of veterinary medicine, so that they have a better understanding of what the career entails. We know that there is only so much time people have available, however, so it can be hard to make time to get those hours. For me the most important thing is that you have the experience to back up what you're saying in the rest of your application. I'm not sure if people think that saying they want to do zoo or wildlife will help them stand out, so they state that as their career goal? But then will have minimal hours in that field. It makes it seem like their application isn't well-prepared.

Thanks so much for all your feedback you've given to everyone, its incredibly helpful!

This is such a fear of mine. I have a large interest in public health veterinary medicine. In my application, I stated that this is a primary interest. I don't have any physical experience in public health veterinary medicine (apart from doing community/shelter work). However, I have done extensive research on PHVM careers. Moreover, I know I enjoy public health because I did a bit of research (HIV work). I do plan on doing an internship with APHIS in the future, but I just don't have the resources to do a full-time unpaid internship right now. I also mentioned that I have an interest in mixed animal practice which I have 5k hours of experience in. Still, this is concerning to hear. I hope that my lack of hours in public health doesn't make me seem ill prepared.

 

[britzen]

Thanks so much for all your feedback you've given to everyone, its incredibly helpful!

This is such a fear of mine. I have a large interest in public health veterinary medicine. In my application, I stated that this is a primary interest. I don't have any physical experience in public health veterinary medicine (apart from doing community/shelter work). However, I have done extensive research on PHVM careers. Moreover, I know I enjoy public health because I did a bit of research (HIV work). I do plan on doing an internship with APHIS in the future, but I just don't have the resources to do a full-time unpaid internship right now. I also mentioned that I have an interest in mixed animal practice which I have 5k hours of experience in. Still, this is concerning to hear. I hope that my lack of hours in public health doesn't make me seem ill prepared.

APHIS and FSIS have paid summer internships (called Pathways). They pay pretty well. Keep an eye out for them on usajobs and you can knock out a 6-12 week paid summer experience.

If you can spare even 2 weeks, you can do an unpaid experience anytime of year.

 

[flotus]

APHIS and FSIS have paid summer internships (called Pathways). They pay pretty well. Keep an eye out for them on usajobs and you can knock out a 6-12 week paid summer experience.

If you can spare even 2 weeks, you can do an unpaid experience anytime of year.

Thank you!

 

[Doctor Ham]

Thanks so much for all your feedback you've given to everyone, its incredibly helpful!

This is such a fear of mine. I have a large interest in public health veterinary medicine. In my application, I stated that this is a primary interest. I don't have any physical experience in public health veterinary medicine (apart from doing community/shelter work). However, I have done extensive research on PHVM careers. Moreover, I know I enjoy public health because I did a bit of research (HIV work). I do plan on doing an internship with APHIS in the future, but I just don't have the resources to do a full-time unpaid internship right now. I also mentioned that I have an interest in mixed animal practice which I have 5k hours of experience in. Still, this is concerning to hear. I hope that my lack of hours in public health doesn't make me seem ill prepared.

And this is where your personal statement comes into play. If you have significant veterinary experience, and some public health work, and you explain that you are interested in exploring veterinary public health, then we can see the connection. I won't use specific examples, but I can tell you there are a significant number of applications from someone who has shadowed in one small animal clinic for 250 hours and is declaring that they want to pursue a career in zoo medicine. Now no one is beholden to the career interest they claim on their application, because we understand that things change during school.

My real point here is that we want to see that you've done some research and explored what a veterinary career looks like. I think there are a lot of people who decided at a young age to pursue becoming a veterinarian, but don't have a *real* understanding of what it means to make it your career. Veterinarians are hitting burnout fast and hard, so I would like to see that you, the applicant, has put in the time to have that understanding.

 

[flotus]

And this is where your personal statement comes into play. If you have significant veterinary experience, and some public health work, and you explain that you are interested in exploring veterinary public health, then we can see the connection. I won't use specific examples, but I can tell you there are a significant number of applications from someone who has shadowed in one small animal clinic for 250 hours and is declaring that they want to pursue a career in zoo medicine. Now no one is beholden to the career interest they claim on their application, because we understand that things change during school.

My real point here is that we want to see that you've done some research and explored what a veterinary career looks like. I think there are a lot of people who decided at a young age to pursue becoming a veterinarian, but don't have a *real* understanding of what it means to make it your career. Veterinarians are hitting burnout fast and hard, so I would like to see that you, the applicant, has put in the time to have that understanding.

This was a great explanation. Thank you for this!

 

[deleted1153530]

Could I ask your advice for those who were rejected who followed the bulk of this advice already? I was told specifically from 2 schools that my GPA (Cumulative=3.3, last 45=3.6, Science=3.2) was why I was rejected and from what I have seen on this page and facebook GPA seemed to be the largest decider of who got interviews. While working on my application this cycle, I had many doctors and recent vet school graduates read over essays and experience as well to try and strengthen every aspect. I plan on completing a Masters, but from what I am reading in your post now I'm slightly confused, should I be focusing on GPA this heavily if you say it is not as important or would you recommend instead looking for new unique types of experience/research?

 

[MMLJT3]

Could I ask your advice for those who were rejected who followed the bulk of this advice already? I was told specifically from 2 schools that my GPA (Cumulative=3.3, last 45=3.6, Science=3.2) was why I was rejected and from what I have seen on this page and facebook GPA seemed to be the largest decider of who got interviews. While working on my application this cycle, I had many doctors and recent vet school graduates read over essays and experience as well to try and strengthen every aspect. I plan on completing a Masters, but from what I am reading in your post now I'm slightly confused, should I be focusing on GPA this heavily if you say it is not as important or would you recommend instead looking for new unique types of experience/research?

There are many schools that do not look at an applicant any further if their GPA does not meet the minimum standards set by the admissions committees for that application cycle.

 

[Doctor Ham]

Could I ask your advice for those who were rejected who followed the bulk of this advice already? I was told specifically from 2 schools that my GPA (Cumulative=3.3, last 45=3.6, Science=3.2) was why I was rejected and from what I have seen on this page and facebook GPA seemed to be the largest decider of who got interviews. While working on my application this cycle, I had many doctors and recent vet school graduates read over essays and experience as well to try and strengthen every aspect. I plan on completing a Masters, but from what I am reading in your post now I'm slightly confused, should I be focusing on GPA this heavily if you say it is not as important or would you recommend instead looking for new unique types of experience/research?

I can't speak to how other schools process their applications, but when our committee reads them, we don't actually even see a candidate's GPA. I can see individual grades, however, which is why I can tell you that I see plenty of C's in organic chemistry. I can see what the trends are - did this person do poorly freshman year and improve? Did this person struggle with upper-level science courses? Did this person withdraw from courses without explanation? Did this person have one bad semester? Does this person do poorly when the courseload is more intense?

Academics aren't everything, but obviously in order to become a veterinarian we have to select people who we are confident can get through vet school. If your file reviews have told you that academics are the concerns, then pursuing coursework to demonstrate you can handle the academic rigor of vet school is not unreasonable. I can't speak for your individual application, but would always encourage applicants to find meaningful experiences to strengthen their application. Community service, employment, research, new animal hours, etc.

 

[wildpuppy]

I have been rejected by a few college because my gpa did not meet their cut off. My GPA is a 3.54. If my GPA didn’t meet the cut off, than what is the cut off? I’m still waiting to hear back from a few schools, but It’s just irritating. I wish schools would post their actual cut off in VMCAS and not say 3.0 when it’s really a 3.7 or 3.8 cut off.

 

[flotus]

I have been rejected by a few college because my gpa did not meet their cut off. My GPA is a 3.54. If my GPA didn’t meet the cut off, than what is the cut off? I’m still waiting to hear back from a few schools, but It’s just irritating. I wish schools would post their actual cut off in VMCAS and not say 3.0 when it’s really a 3.7 or 3.8 cut off.

It depends on the year. I’ve been rejected by four schools because I didn’t meet the GPA cutoff for this year (and mine is 3.68). Some schools cut theirs higher when the applicant pool is extremely large. With that said, although I’ve been rejected from 4, I’ve received interview invites to 5. I tried to apply to schools that I knew were more holistic since my cGPA and sGPA are mediocre.

It’s important to research which schools have a historically higher cutoff vs. schools that review the entire application prior to making GPA cuts. the trends are typically pretty obvious. Still, some like Illinois implemented even higher cutoffs than in the past this year.

 

[Catlady5530]

Hi everyone. I have an interview coming up and from what I’ve seen online and what I have been told the school often asks large animal questions. While I have some experience, the answers don’t often come to me as quickly as they would for small animals. My plan is to answer any question to the best of my ability and not let it throw me as well as bring the conversation back to what I do know or what I logically think the answer is. Is this the correct way to go about it or should I start intensely studying large animal facts!?! They really just want to see how you deal with the question and react right? Or are they genuinely going to reject you if you don’t know all the answers?

 

[WonderingStudent]

Hi everyone. I have an interview coming up and from what I’ve seen online and what I have been told the school often asks large animal questions. While I have some experience, the answers don’t often come to me as quickly as they would for small animals. My plan is to answer any question to the best of my ability and not let it throw me as well as bring the conversation back to what I do know or what I logically think the answer is. Is this the correct way to go about it or should I start intensely studying large animal facts!?! They really just want to see how you deal with the question and react right? Or are they genuinely going to reject you if you don’t know all the answers?

A good answer to interview questions you need more time thinking about that counselors have recommended: "That is a great question. May I take a few moments to think about my answer?" or something to that affects.

Everything is school dependent and how the interview is set up. I've had interviews where I was asked a question that I did not know the answer to and I told my interviewers such. I ended up getting accepted to that school.

 

[happybirdnerd]

This is kind of a strange question but when you are looking at student applications what do you actually see? You said you aren't given a GPA? What parts of the application are anonymous and what parts do you get to see all the details for?

 

[SnowJ]

This is kind of a strange question but when you are looking at student applications what do you actually see? You said you aren't given a GPA? What parts of the application are anonymous and what parts do you get to see all the details for?

This will vary a lot from school to school and even within different parts of the school's process.
For example UMN is probably largely anonymous since they turn each part of the application into a score. At UMN interviews are 'closed book' or anonymous in that the people interviewing you do not see any of your application, they just conduct the interview. (They obviously know your name and maybe some demographic info but nothing else).
When I interviewed at Mizzou the interviewers had my whole application and could ask me specific questions about my experiences.

 

[supershorty]

They obviously know your name and maybe some demographic info but nothing else).

We actually don't even know the name until they come into the Zoom room. It's as blinded as blinded can be.

 

[SnowJ]

We actually don't even know the name until they come into the Zoom room. It's as blinded as blinded can be.

Oh dang, that's wild! Probably a bit easier with Zoom where the name is on screen at all times but I'd be so worried I'd forget their name mid interview

Thanks for the correction

 

[supershorty]

I'd be so worried I'd forget their name mid interview

That's why you write it down immediately on your notes sheet

 

[Mr.Smile12]

This is kind of a strange question but when you are looking at student applications what do you actually see? You said you aren't given a GPA? What parts of the application are anonymous and what parts do you get to see all the details for?

Following up on the admin side of things: the director of admissions (or whoever the administrator is) or the designated chair/dean of admissions should make it clear if the interview is an "open file" or "closed file" interview, meaning that the interview has access to what you wrote in your file. Note that some of us in admissions are told by policy to redact any personal information and metrics from the interviewer's file. MMI interviewers even get less information (usually they get the list of student names and times, but unless they have an open station (tell me about you) where they could get your file, that's it).

Deliberations for offer should be fully open file for all committee members.

 

[sleeplessinWI]

perhaps another strange question/inquiry, of course. How or rather are the claimed hours of experience verified / fact checked BEFORE offers are made, is that even possible? Particularly with programs or schools with no interview. Or is it strictly honor system? thanks.

 

[anxiousanimallover]

Is doing poorly in the interview the end of the world? I have such a hard time interviewing in traditional settings and even today I made a big mistake and was accidentally late making it even worse. How much can a bad interview break your application?

 

[Natalie22]

It depends on the year. I’ve been rejected by four schools because I didn’t meet the GPA cutoff for this year (and mine is 3.68). Some schools cut theirs higher when the applicant pool is extremely large. With that said, although I’ve been rejected from 4, I’ve received interview invites to 5. I tried to apply to schools that I knew were more holistic since my cGPA and sGPA are mediocre.

It’s important to research which schools have a historically higher cutoff vs. schools that review the entire application prior to making GPA cuts. the trends are typically pretty obvious. Still, some like Illinois implemented even higher cutoffs than in the past this year.

Hi! I came across this thread and I see that it’s been a year since you posted this but I’m wondering if you were accepted anywhere and if so, what schools? I have almost the exact same gpa as you and am trying to narrow down what schools to apply to

 

[flotus]

Hi! I came across this thread and I see that it’s been a year since you posted this but I’m wondering if you were accepted anywhere and if so, what schools? I have almost the exact same gpa as you and am trying to narrow down what schools to apply to

I was accepted to all the schools I interviewed at! Ohio state, tufts, Minnesota, Purdue, and Auburn good luck!

 

[Natalie22]

I was accepted to all the schools I interviewed at! Ohio state, tufts, Minnesota, Purdue, and Auburn good luck!

Thank you so much for replying! This has given me hope. I always feel so much better when I hear success stories with similar stats as much. Congrats on your acceptances!

 

[battie]

Yes, if seats remain this few and the cutoff is 3.8 or 3.9, then why not inform the applicant pool?

Because the schools publish their averages. This data is out there for students to find; they just have to put in the research. The average GPA acceptance is on sites such as AAVMC. Whether or not someone who has a 3.3 (like I did), thinks it's worthwhile to apply places with averages of 3.8 (Davis comes to mind), is up to their own cost benefit analysis.

I do wish the VMSAR was more comprehensive and similar to the MSAR for MD/DO programs. More students would be able to gauge their chances better.