Advantages of PCOM from student prospective

[Userneedmoreinfo]

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Hello SDNERS

academics: do the upper class men help with tutoring etc

Research: how many students do research and does everyone have the opportunity to do research

Clinical: major locations specifically academic hospitals

Student life: other than organizations such as intutmurals etc.

Match : not just places from the website but rather specific numbers scores.

Location: where are the best places to live close to campus. Walking please

I hope this isn't too general

I want as much info as possible.

 

[mathnerd88]

Why are you asking? It depends on which school you are comparing this to.

There is plenty of information on sdn you can search and read up on your own. Please don't be lazy and ask questions like these without some research. Most of this information you're asking can even be found in PCOM's website.

PCOM is one of the most established DO schools in the country. I would imagine this school to be near the top of any DO applicant besides schools that are cheaper.

 

[docycle]

PCOM is one of the most established DO schools in the country. I would imagine this school to be near the top of any DO applicant besides schools that are cheaper.

This. If you get accepted, go.

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

Why are you asking? It depends on which school you are comparing this to.

There is plenty of information on sdn you can search and read up on your own. Please don't be lazy and ask questions like these without some research. Most of this information you're asking can even be found in PCOM's website.

PCOM is one of the most established DO schools in the country. I would imagine this school to be near the top of any DO applicant besides schools that are cheaper.

From a PCOM DO student perspective. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I just wanted a student prospective. In my view PCOM is the BEST DO program.

 

[123456123456]

Which campus, PCOM Philadelphia or GA?

 

[OrdinaryDO]

I wouldn't go to PCOM if I were accepted and that is the honest truth. When it comes to DO schools you need to look for the school that best fits you. The biggest problems students run into with DO schools is: Lack of research opportunities due to no major affiliation with large hospitals or Universities, bad clinical rotations, hairy curriculum, and/or unsupported/ bad faculty teachers. This is why it is most desirable to attend a well established DO school, because they have a track record you can follow, a lengthy history, and a reputation which will result in either good or bad reviews. There are schools that some students feel are competitive with PCOM. PCOM doesn't have the highest board scores, but their rotations are solid and they are located in a very large city where you will most likely be rotating through a very large hospital. With a large hospital usually comes a teaching hospital, or at least a place to see a lot of action which results in good training for medical students. The question you have to ask yourself is "What school is for ME and where is the best food located." You see, I want a school that has a larger university affiliated with it so I can conduct research and attend medical school simultaneously. I also want the best damn food so I can cope when I am feeling overwhelmed and depressed 😉 Just gotta find a school for you!

 

[Camaxtli]

Hello SDNERS

academics

Research

Clinical

Student life

Match

score


Location


I want as much info as possible.

Thanks

Only a first year at PCOM so I won't be that helpful. I will tag @TopTomato who is further along.


Don't have time to write a complete review. Overall I love it. Awesome school, people, teachers etc. Location is great. Manayunk is next to the school basically and downtown is only 7 miles away. We match well and students are well prepared for boards it seems (from talking to upperclassman). Highly recommend the school very few negatives.

Campus is also great. Gym and basketball courts on campus. Cafeteria, lecture halls, anatomy lab all great. Tests every 2-3 weeks. Multiple choice exams (except lab practicals).

 

[mathnerd88]

Hey OP,

You need to get accepted into multiple schools first before you can post this kind of question. The best school for you is the one which accepts you. Once you get into a couple, then you have a choice and can compare between them.

Personally, I would choose RowanSOM over PCOM, because tuition for me is over $10k cheaper per year, very close to Philly (15 min drive), affiliated with a large university and can share resources with the MD school from Rowan University (Cooper Medical School,) and has pretty much all the advantages of PCOM with a much smaller class size (270 vs. 160.) It also offers a lot more research opportunities than PCOM. Also, cost of living is cheaper.

It also has its own affiliated hospital (Kennedy University Hospital,) and is an established state school. Tbh, almost any of the big 5 and state schools are good DO schools.

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

Hey OP,

You need to get accepted into multiple schools first before you can post this kind of question. The best school for you is the one which accepts you. Once you get into a couple, then you have a choice and can compare between them.

Personally, I would choose RowanSOM over PCOM, because tuition for me is around $15k cheaper per year, very close to Philly (15 min drive), affiliated with a large university and can share resources with the MD school from Rowan University (Cooper Medical School,) and has pretty much all the advantages of PCOM with a much smaller class size (270 vs. 160.) It also offers a lot more research opportunities than PCOM. Also, cost of living is cheaper.

It also has its own affiliated hospital (Kennedy University Hospital,) and is an established state school. Tbh, almost any of the big 5 and state schools are good DO schools.

What makes you think I didn't get into a couple of schools, thank God. But mathnerd88, you always have attacking replies you need to just calm down and stop trying to start an argument on every thread.

Thanks for the other replies.

 

[mathnerd88]

What makes you think I didn't get into a couple of schools, thank God. But mathnerd88, you always have attacking replies you need to just calm down and stop trying to start an argument on every thread.

Thanks for the other replies.

The nature of this thread seems so. You could post this directly in PCOM specific thread under specific schools instead of in a general thread for pre-meds. Also, again, many of your questions would be answered by just looking at PCOM's website.

My posts aren't attacking, btw. Just giving you advice that schools should be compared if you get into multiple. A comparison analysis would be more helpful not just to you, but to future applicants who read this thread. Anyone could just post 'advantages' to any school, but what matters is how it compares to other specific schools and what you're looking for in your education.

 

[NonTrad16]

What makes you think I didn't get into a couple of schools, thank God. But mathnerd88, you always have attacking replies you need to just calm down and stop trying to start an argument on every thread.

Thanks for the other replies.

One issue is the first posts were extremely vague and simply seem like you didn't take time to organize your thoughts coherently. This can be annoying when you're also asking for "as much info as possible".

You ask a lot, but provide a little/nothing for people to work with.

Some people will reply, but you can typically get more (useful) info by providing your own thoughts so people can add to them, correct misconceptions, etc. Based on the first post no one even knows if you've even applied.

Just saying.

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

Ok

 

[Seth Joo]

Hello SDNERS

academics: do the upper class men help with notes tutoring etc

Research: how many students do research and does everyone have the opportunity to do research

Clinical: major locations specifically academic hospitals

Student life: other than organizations such as intutmurals etc.

Match : not just places from the website but rather specific numbers scores.

Location: where are the best places to live close to campus. Walking please

I hope this isn't too general

I want as much info as possible.

Good stuff, probably the best Osteopathic medical school in the entire country.

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

Good stuff, probably the best Osteopathic medical school in the entire country.

More specific please.

 

[mathnerd88]

More specific please.

Hopefully, you understood his sarcasm.

 

[Seth Joo]

More specific please.

Its one of the oldest most established DO schools in the country, many peer MD schools hold PCOM in very high regard, it has well established clinical education, it has excellent GME programs, one of the few AOA programs that is well regarded, its located in a well to do suburb of Philadelphia, it has state of the art facilities. I cannot think of anything wrong with PCOM as a school.

I can find plenty of faults with many other DO schools though.

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

Its one of the oldest most established DO schools in the country, many peer MD schools hold PCOM in very high regard, it has well established clinical education, it has excellent GME programs, one of the few AOA programs that is well regarded, its located in a well to do suburb of Philadelphia, it has state of the art facilities. I cannot think of anything wrong with PCOM as a school.

I can find plenty of faults with many other DO schools though.

So would you say OVERALL it is the best DO program.
Thanks SethJoo

 

[mathnerd88]

So would you say OVERALL it is the best DO program.
Thanks SethJoo

It is a highly regarded DO school, so yes, it is one of the best DO programs. I would say the big 5 (MSUCOM, DMU, KCU, PCOM, CCOM) and the state schools are all equal on par.

You're just a DO, and there really isn't a ranking system for DO schools. You're still put below MD graduates. What really matters is your board scores and your performance and recommendations in clinicals.

If you want research, PCOM is limited in research opportunities, especially when you compare it to MSUCOM.

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

It is a highly regarded DO school, so yes, it is one of the best DO programs. I would say the big 5 (MSUCOM, DMU, KCU, PCOM, CCOM) and the state schools are all equal on par.

You're just a DO, and there really isn't a ranking system for DO schools. You're still put below MD graduates. What really matters is your board scores and your performance and recommendations in clinicals.

If you want research, PCOM is limited in research opportunities, especially when you compare it to MSUCOM.

Interesting train of thought ,but I don't agree with you, so you are saying that a new for profit MD program (California Northstate) is better than any DO including PCOM. Also do you believe all the state schools (DO)= PCOM (like wvsom)?

 

[mathnerd88]

Interesting train of thought ,but I don't agree with you, so you are saying that a new for profit MD program (California Northstate) is better than any DO including PCOM. Also do you believe all the state schools (DO)= PCOM (like wvsom)?

Not every single state school, but most of them, like Texas, Rowan, UNECOM, MSUCOM, DMU, KCU, etc. For example, MSUCOM is regarded as the number 1 DO school by US News for primary care. You don't see PCOM or CCOM on that list. Even LECOM is ranked higher than those two.

And yes, even a new for profit MD school would still be better than DO school. A program director would take MD over DO if they both had the same board scores, same credentials, etc. For example, MGH won't even take DO's, period. That's why many people on here don't rank DO schools. What program directors like to see are good board scores, and good letters of recommendation. The connections you make also play a role. You're not coming from a top 20 MD school, so your school name won't really play much of a role here. All medical schools in the first two years prepare you for your Step 1 Exam. During that time, medical schools don't really matter, but it is imperative to choose a school that fits you in your study habits. What makes a difference between the schools is your 3rd and 4th years (your clinicals.) There is a HUGE variation between medical schools when it comes to clinicals. Some allow you to stay close to the school with an affiliated year long hospital, while others may make you move around a lot to different sites (which is a PITA, imo.) These clinicals allow you to make connections to the hospitals that you might end up doing residency at. It is your time to impress those attendings and program directors. This is where generally all the established schools shine in, including PCOM.

You can ask some people on here, and I remember reading a post where someone had a 255+ on his USMLE Step 1 from a DO school, and was denied interviews over an MD with only 230 on USMLE.

I don't want you to get the wrong idea here, but you really need to do some more research and reading on this site. There are a lot of helpful information on here that could answer all your questions. That's why I mentioned earlier what you're asking isn't really what's important for your future. Your medical school is just a stepping stone to your residency, which is what's REALLY important.

Again, I'll say PCOM is a great school. It is one of the best DO programs, and is relatively cheaper compared to other DO schools. If you get into PCOM, I would say go there without a doubt. I would say the same for CCOM if money wasn't an issue. That's why when you say 'best,' well, that's subjective. You need to consider cost, curriculum that fits you, location where you want to do residency, etc.

For example, someone who wants to do residency in California might not like PCOM, because most of the graduates stay within the area for residency in the northeast.

 

[Userneedmoreinfo]

Not every single state school, but most of them, like Texas, Rowan, UNECOM, MSUCOM, DMU, KCU, etc. For example, MSUCOM is regarded as the number 1 DO school by US News for primary care. You don't see PCOM or CCOM on that list. Even LECOM is ranked higher than those two.

And yes, even a new for profit MD school would still be better than DO school. A program director would take MD over DO if they both had the same board scores, same credentials, etc. For example, MGH won't even take DO's, period. That's why many people on here don't rank DO schools. What program directors like to see are good board scores, and good letters of recommendation. The connections you make also play a role. You're not coming from a top 20 MD school, so your school name won't really play much of a role here. All medical schools in the first two years prepare you for your Step 1 Exam. During that time, medical schools don't really matter, but it is imperative to choose a school that fits you in your study habits. What makes a difference between the schools is your 3rd and 4th years (your clinicals.) There is a HUGE variation between medical schools when it comes to clinicals. Some allow you to stay close to the school with an affiliated year long hospital, while others may make you move around a lot to different sites (which is a PITA, imo.) These clinicals allow you to make connections to the hospitals that you might end up doing residency at. It is your time to impress those attendings and program directors. This is where generally all the established schools shine in, including PCOM.

You can ask some people on here, and I remember reading a post where someone had a 255+ on his USMLE Step 1 from a DO school, and was denied interviews over an MD with only 230 on USMLE.

I don't want you to get the wrong idea here, but you really need to do some more research and reading on this site. There are a lot of helpful information on here that could answer all your questions. That's why I mentioned earlier what you're asking isn't really what's important for your future. Your medical school is just a stepping stone to your residency, which is what's REALLY important.

Again, I'll say PCOM is a great school. It is one of the best DO programs, and is relatively cheaper compared to other DO schools. If you get into PCOM, I would say go there without a doubt. I would say the same for CCOM if money wasn't an issue. That's why when you say 'best,' well, that's subjective. You need to consider cost, curriculum that fits you, location where you want to do residency, etc.

For example, someone who wants to do residency in California might not like PCOM, because most of the graduates stay within the area for residency in the northeast.

Ok, thanks for the info. Now what schools do you think will give me the best opportunity for residencies in the east coast better than PCOM.

 

[mathnerd88]

Ok, thanks for the info. Now what schools do you think will give me the best opportunity for residencies in the east coast better than PCOM.

It really depends where in the east coast? East coast is pretty large.

For the Northeast, I would say PCOM, RowanSOM, NYIT, LECOM, and UNECOM are all schools that would give you good residencies there. Most of the graduates from the schools tend to stay nearby for residencies. If you want North Carolina, then CUSOM is your best bet. For Florida, definitely Nova. For Virginia, then VCOM, etc.

I'm currently living in Boston, and the people here would tell me UNECOM is the best DO school. When I mention DO schools here, nobody has heard of PCOM, but UNECOM is well known. I asked the DO I shadowed in Boston, and she would tell me UNECOM is the best. When I go to Philadelphia, people tell me PCOM is the best school. In NYC, they say NYIT is the best. Get the picture? DO schools are pretty well-known regionally, but go to another state, they've never heard of it.

That's why what really matters is your board scores and your performance in your rotations.

Like I said earlier, the reason why you go to more established schools is mostly because of the hospitals you rotate around and that they're well known regionally. You are able to make inroads and connections with the program directors there, and perhaps be able to do residency when you graduate there.

RowanSOM and PCOM both are close to each other (25 minutes apart) and a lot of the graduates from those schools overlap in terms of which residencies they end up doing.

 

[Camaxtli]

Not every single state school, but most of them, like Texas, Rowan, UNECOM, MSUCOM, DMU, KCU, etc. For example, MSUCOM is regarded as the number 1 DO school by US News for primary care. You don't see PCOM or CCOM on that list. Even LECOM is ranked higher than those two.

And yes, even a new for profit MD school would still be better than DO school. A program director would take MD over DO if they both had the same board scores, same credentials, etc. For example, MGH won't even take DO's, period. That's why many people on here don't rank DO schools. What program directors like to see are good board scores, and good letters of recommendation. The connections you make also play a role. You're not coming from a top 20 MD school, so your school name won't really play much of a role here. All medical schools in the first two years prepare you for your Step 1 Exam. During that time, medical schools don't really matter, but it is imperative to choose a school that fits you in your study habits. What makes a difference between the schools is your 3rd and 4th years (your clinicals.) There is a HUGE variation between medical schools when it comes to clinicals. Some allow you to stay close to the school with an affiliated year long hospital, while others may make you move around a lot to different sites (which is a PITA, imo.) These clinicals allow you to make connections to the hospitals that you might end up doing residency at. It is your time to impress those attendings and program directors. This is where generally all the established schools shine in, including PCOM.

You can ask some people on here, and I remember reading a post where someone had a 255+ on his USMLE Step 1 from a DO school, and was denied interviews over an MD with only 230 on USMLE.

I don't want you to get the wrong idea here, but you really need to do some more research and reading on this site. There are a lot of helpful information on here that could answer all your questions. That's why I mentioned earlier what you're asking isn't really what's important for your future. Your medical school is just a stepping stone to your residency, which is what's REALLY important.

Again, I'll say PCOM is a great school. It is one of the best DO programs, and is relatively cheaper compared to other DO schools. If you get into PCOM, I would say go there without a doubt. I would say the same for CCOM if money wasn't an issue. That's why when you say 'best,' well, that's subjective. You need to consider cost, curriculum that fits you, location where you want to do residency, etc.

For example, someone who wants to do residency in California might not like PCOM, because most of the graduates stay within the area for residency in the northeast.

Not that this matters, but, Pcom doesn't submit the necessary information to usnews in order to be ranked. We are unranked not rank not published.

 

[mathnerd88]

Not that this matters, but, Pcom doesn't submit the necessary information to usnews in order to be ranked. We are unranked not rank not published.

I'm not sure how SDN ranks schools, but you can see Oklahoma and RowanSOM being ranked higher than PCOM. PCOM is ranked the same as CCOM, KCOM, DMU, MSUCOM, etc. LECOM is ranked one of the lowest.

This is why ranking is kind of...useless, and there's really no "best DO school." Even @Goro would say there's not really ranking for DO schools, and he's an adcom. What's important is that you have to like the school, and that it works for you. You need to just perform well on your boards and do well in clinicals. Even LECOM graduates get into very competitive residencies in the Northeast, and people don't classify them as established as PCOM.

http://schools.studentdoctor.net/schools/1/osteopathic-medical-school-rankings/0

OP, again, I reiterate. There are a million threads about this. You can search for 'ranking of DO schools' on sdn and you'll find many threads about it, and they all say different things about which school is best. The general consensus is that more established schools are better and so are the state schools.

 

[Seth Joo]

So would you say OVERALL it is the best DO program.
Thanks SethJoo

People from local MD schools hold PCOM in high regard, which is very rare for a DO school. Also its GME programs are known to be quite good, one of the few AOA residency programs that are respected. You cannot go wrong with a school like PCOM.

I am not a student there but most DO schools usually do not get that kind of respect from peer MD institutions, and that is very good for PCOM to get that kind of recognition.

 

[mathnerd88]

People from local MD schools hold PCOM in high regard, which is very rare for a DO school. Also its GME programs are known to be quite good, one of the few AOA residency programs that are respected. You cannot go wrong with a school like PCOM.

I am not a student there but most DO schools usually do not get that kind of respect from peer MD institutions, and that is very good for PCOM to get that kind of recognition.

You could say the same for RowanSOM and MSUCOM...they have their own GME's too. Some PCOM students go to RowanSOM/Kennedy University Hospital for residency.

It goes back to my point that it is just regional.

You can ask @AlteredScale and he would provide some input here.

 

[Seth Joo]

You could say the same for RowanSOM and MSUCOM...they have their own GME's too. Some PCOM students go to RowanSOM/Kennedy University Hospital for residency.

It goes back to my point that it is just regional.

You can ask @AlteredScale and he would provide some input here.

Those are top programs too as well. When you outside of established DO schools the quality your educational experience begins to drop substantially.

If I had to list the number one DO school in the country though it would be the original PCOM.

 

[mathnerd88]

Those are top programs too as well. When you outside of established DO schools the quality your educational experience begins to drop substantially.

If I had to list the number one DO school in the country though it would be the original PCOM.

Hmm, PCOM isn't the first DO school. It is the third DO school to open. I would say the differences between the top DO programs are very miniscule.

I would've ranked MSUCOM better than PCOM. PCOM seems to lack a bit in the research department.

 

[Camaxtli]

I'm not sure how SDN ranks schools, but you can see Oklahoma and RowanSOM being ranked higher than PCOM. PCOM is ranked the same as CCOM, KCOM, DMU, MSUCOM, etc. LECOM is ranked one of the lowest.

This is why ranking is kind of...useless, and there's really no "best DO school." Even @Goro would say there's not really ranking for DO schools, and he's an adcom. What's important is that you have to like the school, and that it works for you. You need to just perform well on your boards and do well in clinicals. Even LECOM graduates get into very competitive residencies in the Northeast, and people don't classify them as established as PCOM.

http://schools.studentdoctor.net/schools/1/osteopathic-medical-school-rankings/0

OP, again, I reiterate. There are a million threads about this. You can search for 'ranking of DO schools' on sdn and you'll find many threads about it, and they all say different things about which school is best. The general consensus is that more established schools are better and so are the state schools.

I know people at rowan som and have spent time with some of their affiliated hospitals. I respect my colleagues there and that is also a fantastic school. I think we have mutual respect for each other and are both good. I know some of my classmates where stuck on whether to attend PCOM or rowan. Tough call!

 

[Seth Joo]

Hmm, PCOM isn't the first DO school. It is the third DO school to open. I would say the differences between the top DO programs are very miniscule.

I would've ranked MSUCOM better than PCOM. PCOM seems to lack a bit in the research department.

Well let's just say they are better than the newer DO schools, those younger than 20 years old. I have said on numerous occasions if you do not want problems go to the "established" DO schools and you won't encounter problems in your education.

Comparing PCOM, MSU, Rowan, TCOM, among DO schools is like comparing Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford, everyone has an opinion as to which one is number one, my pick is PCOM.

DO schools tend to be younger than MD schools, a rule of thumb is to try to get into one older than 40 years old.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

I cannot stand it when people automatically think MD > DO... Please, just stop. Our founding dean did his residency at Yale school of medicine, the DO who wrote my LOR did his residency at the Mayo Clinic, another DO I shadowed is a Plastic and Reconstructive surgeon (which is highly regarded as nearly impossible for DOs in the eyes of SDNers). Program directors want students who will succeed and bring about the most success and the best knowledge and skill set. An MD who barely passed his boards and shelf exams will in no way be regarded as a better applicant to a residency program than a DO who passed his shelf exams with honors and scored a very competitive USMLE/COMLEX score. Yes, the majority of the time if two applicants are exactly or near exactly the same on paper the MD will probably win out, but it's your own fault if you let it come down to that. If you want a competitive residency then prepare to work harder than most individuals, but in the end the MD vs DO jargan only goes so far....so please, quit the nonsense.

 

[mathnerd88]

I cannot stand it when people automatically think MD > DO... Please, just stop. Our founding dean did his residency at Yale school of medicine, the DO who wrote my LOR did his residency at the Mayo Clinic, another DO I shadowed is a Plastic and Reconstructive surgeon (which is highly regarded as nearly impossible for DOs in the eyes of SDNers). Program directors want students who will succeed and bring about the most success and the best knowledge and skill set. An MD who barely passed his boards and shelf exams will in no way be regarded as a better applicant to a residency program than a DO who passed his shelf exams with honors and scored a very competitive USMLE/COMLEX score. Yes, the majority of the time if two applicants are exactly or near exactly the same on paper the MD will probably win out, but it's your own fault if you let it come down to that. If you want a competitive residency then prepare to work harder than most individuals, but in the end the MD vs DO jargan only goes so far....so please, quit the nonsense.

And that's what everyone is saying.

Nobody is saying objectively MD>DO. I'm just saying it is easier for MDs to get into more competitive residency than DO. There has been some posters (from DO schools) where they've been denied an interview to a residency program with higher USMLE scores compared to another MD graduate.

I've already said that I know MGH does not take DO's, period. Out of every DO school, perhaps only the top 1-2% get into super competitive academic residencies, while for MD schools, a much higher percentage do.

Nobody is saying it is impossible. While the stigma of MD vs. DO is going away, there is still some bias. I, as would many on here, would choose a low-tier MD school over a top-tier DO school, especially if I were trying to go for a competitive residency, because like you said, there's still an advantage of going MD over DO, if you have the same board scores. You take any advantage you can get.

If you're doing primary care, then it wouldn't matter, but the OP was specifically asking about getting into "good" residencies.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

And that's what everyone is saying.

Nobody is saying objectively MD>DO. We're just saying it is easier for MDs to get into more competitive residency than DO. There has been some posters (from DO schools) where they've been denied an interview to a residency program with higher USMLE scores compared to another MD graduate.

I've already said that I know MGH does not take DO's, period. Out of every DO school, perhaps only the top 1-2% get into super competitive academic residencies, while for MD schools, a much higher percentage do.

Nobody is saying it is impossible. While the stigma of MD vs. DO is going away, there is still some bias. I, as would many on here, would choose a low-tier MD school over a top-tier DO school, especially if I were trying to go for a competitive residency.

If you're doing primary care, then it wouldn't matter, but the OP was specifically asking about getting into "good" residencies.

I feel like people only mention the VERY GOOD residencies when this comes up. There are limitless "excellent" residencies out there. The odds are more in your favor than against you no matter DO or MD, you may not get the Harvard or Duke Or Yale residency, but there are PLENTY of excellent residency slots for every specialty for DOs to easily match if they put in the time and effort. MGH is a given, btw, they are old school bias.

 

[mathnerd88]

I feel like people only mention the VERY GOOD residencies when this comes up. There are limitless "excellent" residencies out there. The odds are more in your favor than against you no matter DO or MD, you may not get the Harvard or Duke Or Yale residency, but there are PLENTY of excellent residency slots for every specialty for DOs to easily match if they put in the time and effort. MGH is a given, btw, they are old school bias.

Of course, but you just mentioned that program directors majority of the time would choose MD over DO if given the same/near the same board scores/recommendations between MD and DO...

In that case, it would automatically be better going MD over DO, no? It would be to your advantage. You'll have to work harder as a DO to get into the same residency program than if you were an MD (and you'll have to take additional OMM classes and an extra board exam-USMLE if you want to go to more competitive residencies.)

The merger may change that, but before this was the case.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Of course, but you just mentioned that program directors would choose MD over DO if given the same/near the same board scores/recommendations between MD and DO...

In that case, it would automatically be better going MD over DO, no?

No, I'm saying who cares because it should never come down to that. If it does, then too bad so sad buddy. And I don't mean that MD > DO as a sure thing, because no one knows that the PDs are looking for. One may be more personable than the other, people form biases on their own, it has been proven in multiple studies that first impressions are usually the strongest and hardest views to change. So, maybe the DO set a better first impression? Idk, I just think it is silly to put actual numbers to these things. You mentioned "top 1-2%" get into super competitive residencies, but let's be real here..you and I both know there is no foundational basis for that statistic. Yes, the general consensus may say one thing, but let's not get TOO specific.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Of course, but you just mentioned that program directors majority of the time would choose MD over DO if given the same/near the same board scores/recommendations between MD and DO...

In that case, it would automatically be better going MD over DO, no? It would be to your advantage. You'll have to work harder as a DO to get into the same residency program than if you were an MD (and you'll have to take additional OMM classes and an extra board exam-USMLE if you want to go to more competitive residencies.)

The merger may change that, but before this was the case.

The bolded, anyone who doesn't believe this is either incredibly naive or has there head in the sand refusing to face the facts. I personally know someone who went to Mayo (yes Rochester not Arizona...) for a Derm residency from AZCOM. He told me the difference in effort that he had to put in to get there compared to the MDs who got there was like comparing an Iron Man to a half marathon..

Now it is definitely possible to get good residencies in almost any specialty if you work hard enough but no one should believe they are on equal footing as the MD students. Having the MD may not be better but it definitely makes things easier..

 

[OrdinaryDO]

The bolded, anyone who doesn't believe this is either incredibly naive or has there head in the sand refusing to face the facts. I personally know someone who went to Mayo (yes Rochester not Arizona...) for a Derm residency from AZCOM. He told me the difference in effort that he had to put in to get there compared to the MDs who got there was like comparing an Iron Man to a half marathon..

Now it is definitely possible to get good residencies in almost any specialty if you work hard enough but no one should believe they are on equal footing as the MD students. Having the MD may not be better but it definitely makes things easier..

*sigh* it never ends does it?
There is an allopathic forum if you'd like to join in with the rest of the group.

 

[WedgeDawg]

*sigh* it never ends does it?
There is an allopathic forum if you'd like to join in with the rest of the group.

Out of curiosity, where exactly do you disagree with the poster you quoted?

 

[mathnerd88]

*sigh* it never ends does it?
There is an allopathic forum if you'd like to join in with the rest of the group.

That's the problem. You believe that with enough hard work you can usually get in where you want to go. That is the honest truth, and you're right.

What I'm trying to say is the easiest most straightforward path to a more competitive residency would be to go to a MD school. If given the opportunity, most people on here would choose US MD over DO. The exception to this is someone with a foreign MD degree.

There are many more MD schools than DO schools, and yet it is still more competitive to get into MD over DO. The reason is not just because of the "stigma" that MD>DO. It is just the easier path to take, especially with the merger.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Out of curiosity, where exactly do you disagree with the poster you quoted?

It's not that I disagree with what they are saying, it's just that there is a very wide spectrum for residency slots for every specialty. With THOUSANDS of slots overall, everyone seems to flock to the best of the best then it never fails they have to mention MD > DO. This may be the case for many programs, but there are a TON of high quality residency slots that are more than willing to accept the DO applicant if they are the better applicant. I put just gets old, no one ever talks about the student's efforts, just the initials behind their name, it IS possible to get into ANY residency, some may seem impossible, but where there is a will there's a way. It's not just a clear cut "if your not an MD you can't do X, Y, and Z residencies" like some people like to think (this is not what I am saying is being said HERE, but it is said quite often). The students portfolio still makes up the majority of the decision making as opposed to JUST the credentials received, aka MD or DO.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Have you looked at the numbers? In the competative specialties and residencies (I am talking about them specifically because it is not difficult to get an uncompetitive spot) there are not thousands of spots... And every single one is coveted heavily. To push your way through the MD crowd as a DO sometimes takes a level of effort we just don't understand as pre-meds, or sometimes even 1st or 2nd year students for that matter.

Overall I agree with everything you are saying. But busting your butt to get that ortho spot is easy to talk about and much harder to do. It is also realistic to understand that (for at least the next decade or more) there will be PDs who will throw a DO app in the round filter simply because it has DO at the top.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Have you looked at the numbers? In the competative specialties and residencies (I am talking about them specifically because it is not difficult to get an uncompetitive spot) there are not thousands of spots... And every single one is coveted heavily. To push your way through the MD crowd as a DO sometimes takes a level of effort we just don't understand as pre-meds, or sometimes even 1st or 2nd year students for that matter.

Overall I agree with everything you are saying. But busting your butt to get that ortho spot is easy to talk about and much harder to do. It is also realistic to understand that (for at least the next decade or more) there will be PDs who will throw a DO app in the round filter simply because it has DO at the top.

Until you start naming the hospitals and showing numbers, I have absolutely no clue what residencies you are talking about.

 

[Seth Joo]

The bolded, anyone who doesn't believe this is either incredibly naive or has there head in the sand refusing to face the facts. I personally know someone who went to Mayo (yes Rochester not Arizona...) for a Derm residency from AZCOM. He told me the difference in effort that he had to put in to get there compared to the MDs who got there was like comparing an Iron Man to a half marathon..

Now it is definitely possible to get good residencies in almost any specialty if you work hard enough but no one should believe they are on equal footing as the MD students. Having the MD may not be better but it definitely makes things easier..

I go to AZCOM and he is right, its a lot harder to land a competitive spot as a DO vs an MD. For MDs, particularly those at well known institutions its almost a given that they will get into competitive residencies.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Until you start naming the hospitals and showing numbers, I have absolutely no clue what residencies you are talking about.

Exactly... I don't think you really understand the reality of the numbers involved

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf

Page three. Look at the number of positions by specialty, the competative specialties have very few spots, some highlights: NSG 206, ENT 295, Rad Onc 186. Even FM only has ~3000 spots...

Getting a competative residency spot is extremely difficult and takes a lot of work. For both DOs and MDs and even more so for the DOs. That is just a reality.

 

[mathnerd88]

Listen OP, we are all giving good advice here. Don't just listen to the posts that make you feel good, because you have to be realistic. PCOM is undoubtedly a great school, and probably one of the top DO schools in the country. I'm originally from NJ, and love the city, so I definitely know the appeal. PCOM, NYITCOM, RowanSOM would've been my top choice. Out of the three, it just came down to cost for me, since they're all excellent schools.

It is really up to you to decide what you want to do. You can succeed, but just know that you have to work hard wherever you go. As I'm entering as a medical student next year, I have the expectation that there is a high probability that I will go into primary care, and I'm okay with that. Of course I want to keep my options open, and doing my clinicals will help solidify my decision of whichever residency I want to go. After seeing my board scores, the picture will become clearer. Choose the school based on your living habits and study habits. Consider that finances will also play a huge role in determining your happiness.

My biggest advice to you is, if you want to become a physician, apply both MD and DO. If you can't get into the MD school, then go to the DO school instead. You'll become a physician either way. Take the easier path for yourself.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I'm not sure how SDN ranks schools, but you can see Oklahoma and RowanSOM being ranked higher than PCOM. PCOM is ranked the same as CCOM, KCOM, DMU, MSUCOM, etc. LECOM is ranked one of the lowest.

This is why ranking is kind of...useless, and there's really no "best DO school." Even @Goro would say there's not really ranking for DO schools, and he's an adcom. What's important is that you have to like the school, and that it works for you. You need to just perform well on your boards and do well in clinicals. Even LECOM graduates get into very competitive residencies in the Northeast, and people don't classify them as established as PCOM.

http://schools.studentdoctor.net/schools/1/osteopathic-medical-school-rankings/0

OP, again, I reiterate. There are a million threads about this. You can search for 'ranking of DO schools' on sdn and you'll find many threads about it, and they all say different things about which school is best. The general consensus is that more established schools are better and so are the state schools.

SDN doesn't rank schools. RowanSOM and Oklahoma aren't ranked higher then pcom, ccom, kcom,dmu or msucom. We generally say that older schools and state schools have better clinical education which includes all those schools you mentioned.

 

[mathnerd88]

SDN doesn't rank schools. RowanSOM and Oklahoma aren't ranked higher then pcom, ccom, kcom,dmu or msucom. We generally say that older schools and state schools have better clinical education which includes all those schools you mentioned.

Agreed.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

@OrdinaryDO i just looked back and that last post may have come across a little condescending which was definitely not the point and I didn't mean it to. In the end I totally agree with everything you have said.

OP go to where YOU beat fit. Don't make a decision based off of some arbitrary "ranking" that's doesn't really exist. In the end there is no "best" DO school. I agree with everything said above by @mathnerd88

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Agreed.

You probably mistyped then in the post I quoted.

"I'm not sure how SDN ranks schools, but you can see Oklahoma and RowanSOM being ranked higher than PCOM. PCOM is ranked the same as CCOM, KCOM, DMU, MSUCOM"

 

[mathnerd88]

You probably mistyped then in the post I quoted.

"I'm not sure how SDN ranks schools, but you can see Oklahoma and RowanSOM being ranked higher than PCOM. PCOM is ranked the same as CCOM, KCOM, DMU, MSUCOM"

Ahh, yes, from that link, it does seem that OK and Rowan are ranked higher, but I don't think it is a real ranking.