advice about chicago programs

[DoctorJanItor]

Hello All

Congratulations to everyone who matched. I hope I can be celebrating next year around this time!

I was wondering if anyone could help me. I am a MS3 in one of the top Chicago med schools and I want to do ophthalmology. I have comparable numbers to many of those who matched. But I want to stay in Chicago due to family reasons (wife and new baby). I wanted to know how the 6 Chicago programs rank in everyone's opinion: Univ Chicago, Northwestern, UIC, Loyola, County, and Rush.

Thanks in advance!

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[DoctorJanItor]

194 views and no replies? 🙂

please people? pretty please, anyone willing to share or at least numerically rank the 6 programs? would help so i can start applying for away rotations...

 

[eyedoc4]

I sent you a personal message a couple of days ago. This question has also been answered on other threads. PM me with any further Q's

 

[msueye]

In my opinion:

UIC= Loyala > Northwestern= U of C > Rush > Cook County

If you are interested in comprehensive I think Loyala is your best bet, if you know you want to do a fellowship I think UIC would be your best choice. It really comes down to personal preference really between all of the programs, I'm not sure if other than Loyala/ UIC any program is head and shoulders above the others.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[drboris]

I am a Loyola MS4 and will be going to Rush for ophtho. I think in terms of training and volume Rush, Loyola, and Cook County are at the top.

Loyola
- High cataract volume from Hines VA. At Loyola, staff attendings clinics and get broad exposure to subspecialties. Faculty very receptive to residents and Dr.Bouchard, chairman, is very energetic, personable, and well known in cornea.
- Not many downsides. Very well regarded program. Residents who want fellowships get them. Usually 2-3 out of 4 go on to fellowships. Usually plastics, retina, cornea. Good training for comprehensive as well.

Rush
- I think this is a hidden gem in Chicago. I may be biased because I matched there, but I think this program is perfect for certain people.
- Definitely has more of a private rather than academic feel. Only 2 residents each year and each resident get their own lane for all 3 years. Residents follow patients the whole time and operate as needed. They start lasers their first month of residency and do an incredible amount of volume in 3 years. The training seems to be excellent with many private attending from Chicago suburbs coming in throughout the week to teach. They teach because they want to and are there purely for the residents education. Each resident has designated OR time and sees every subspecialty in a given day, just like a normal practice. Dr.Cohen, the program director, is a true resident advocate and is very energetic and personable. There is good teaching in all subspecialties and the program is heavy in retina and cornea. Each resident does about 10 lasik in 3 yrs. Rush has an excellent retina fellowship, and 1-2 residents go on to fellowship each year, usually retina or cornea.
- I don't see too many downsides. The prelim year is not as bad as it sounds. There are some tough surgical months (3-4), but there are also ophtho, derm, neuro, and other no call months.
- One of the best things is how tight knit the residents and attendings are. Most of the attendings either went to Rush med school or residency and truly want to be there and teach.

UIC
- Did not interview there, but people usually think highly of the program. They have a new chairman who is emphasizing research more. Used to be the best program in Chicago.

Northwestern
- Did not interview there, but many people on the interview trail were not impressed with the program.
- Send their residents to Louisiana or maybe now India for surgical volume.

U of C
- I liked this program because all of the faculty seemed very eager to teach. The volume is not that high and there are no resident run clinics, but for some reason I had a good feel there. Most residents seemed happy and were able to get great fellowships.
- New chairman is supposed to make this program up and coming.....

Cook County
- What can I say, its county, the volume is through the roof. Many attendings seemed excited to teach and trained there as well.
- Residents work very hard and see many patients each day.
- Good volume, good teaching, residents get fellowships but program is definitely more clinical than academic.
- Only downside is that like any county hospital, a lot of times you are dealing with the system and it can get frustrating.

 

[DoctorJanItor]

thanks everyone for all your input, also people who PMed me

just wanted to add one tidbit that i learnt from someone via PM who interviewed there at NU (matched elsewhere) and asked for this to be shared:

"they no longer have the LA rotation, since they have a clinic and OR at the WSVA. jampol (chair)is somewhat eccentric, but very well known across the country. bidwell (PD) is like your second mother, will look out for you, and a resident advocate. the facilities are beautiful, the nicest in the city. big time people in all specialties. new opportunities for residents to do LASIK and PRK. call schedule is more frequent than other programs, but the reputation and resources will get you any fellowship or job you want. attendings really go to bat for making phone calls and getting residents into the fellowships of their choice."

 

[echinoderm]

does northwestern still take visiting students in their ophtho department? i didn't see it listed as an available department...

 

[bmk579]

My $0.02 on Chicago programs...

UIC > Loyola=Rush > UofC > Northwestern > Cook County

UIC
UIC has the best reputation and is the most well-regarded. Very strong faculty and teaching in all the subspecialties (especially cornea/retina/uveitis, also oculoplastics). Fellows in all subspecialties, including uveitis and oculoplastics (ASOPRS). Strong faculty is a big plus in getting top-notch fellowships, and they really support you. Most do fellowships (plastics, retina, cornea, uveitis, glaucoma), but a few also go into comprehensive. Good surgical numbers for an academic program (last years class averaged 150's for cataracts). Resident-run clinic is a big plus. Also, it is a large program, 6 residents/yr.
- downsides: older facilities, not too many others

Loyola
- probably good surgical numbers and subspecialty surgical numbers due to lack of fellows. Dr. Bouchard is well-known in cornea. Good for comprehensive training.
- downsides: not very strong academics. faculty in other subspecialties (other than cornea) may be weak/not well-known, which would make it hard to get the top tier fellowships in retina/plastics/etc other than cornea.

Rush
- Seems like good surgical volume, overall good training. Dr. Packo is really well-known in retina, good retina fellowship program
- downsides: only 2 residents/yr - big problem if you don't get along well with your classmate; surgical intern year is a downside in my opinion (especially considering some of the cush transitional years out there); not very strong in academics

U of C
- I think U of C is on a downswing, since Dr. Mieler left and joined UIC. Surgical numbers are low. U of C as a whole is also undergoing some turbulent changes, which have been detrimental to other programs, including medicine.

Northwestern
- I have not heard very many good things about this place (interviewed there and know former residents). However, Jampol is well-known and regarded, although eccentric.
- The residents seem unhappy, and I was told by a former resident that it can be a pretty malignant place. Several residents have dropped out of the program over the past few years. I think residents are sent to India to make up for poor surgical volume. Faculty are not very supportive.

Cook County
- really high surgical volume
- downsides: poor didactics, faculty is weak (especially in some of the subspecialties), they don't do vitrectomies due to lack of a vitrectomy machine, very disorganized/poor ancillary staff (typical county hospital), weak in terms of fellowship placement/getting competitive fellowships

I think in terms of training and volume Rush, Loyola, and Cook County are at the top.

I disagree with drboris on this statement. I think the three programs mentioned may have some of the higher surgical numbers, but UIC is definitely the best all-around training program, and strongest reputation in Chicago. Ultimately, you want to go somewhere that will prepare the best for what you want to do (which is different for each person). If I was positive I wanted to do comprehensive, I would go to Loyola. If I thought I might want to do a fellowship, especially in something very competitive like retina or plastics, I would definitely go to UIC.

 

[uchicagophtho]

Regarding U of Chicago - I think the information posted on here is outdated. Surgical numbers are not low and have trended up significantly this year with the addition of the Northshore University hospitals (formerly Evanston Northwestern Hospital) and Dr. Marian Macsai's group. First year residents are doing a lot of plastics up there as primary and lots of cataracts for 3rd years. The surgical experience and patient population is a lot more diverse with 3 hospital systems - U of C, Weiss, Northshore (up until 2 years ago, U of C was the only training site). There are resident-run clinics at the U of C Hospital (continuity clinic in which residents follow the same patients throughout the 3 years of residency) as well as resident-run clinics at Northshore. The program underwent significant changes over the past 2 years but is stable and on the up, at least from what we see working here on a day to day basis.

 

[Eyeguy123]

I am a Loyola MS4 and will be going to Rush for ophtho. I think in terms of training and volume Rush, Loyola, and Cook County are at the top.

Loyola
- High cataract volume from Hines VA. At Loyola, staff attendings clinics and get broad exposure to subspecialties. Faculty very receptive to residents and Dr.Bouchard, chairman, is very energetic, personable, and well known in cornea.
- Not many downsides. Very well regarded program. Residents who want fellowships get them. Usually 2-3 out of 4 go on to fellowships. Usually plastics, retina, cornea. Good training for comprehensive as well.

Rush
- I think this is a hidden gem in Chicago. I may be biased because I matched there, but I think this program is perfect for certain people.
- Definitely has more of a private rather than academic feel. Only 2 residents each year and each resident get their own lane for all 3 years. Residents follow patients the whole time and operate as needed. They start lasers their first month of residency and do an incredible amount of volume in 3 years. The training seems to be excellent with many private attending from Chicago suburbs coming in throughout the week to teach. They teach because they want to and are there purely for the residents education. Each resident has designated OR time and sees every subspecialty in a given day, just like a normal practice. Dr.Cohen, the program director, is a true resident advocate and is very energetic and personable. There is good teaching in all subspecialties and the program is heavy in retina and cornea. Each resident does about 10 lasik in 3 yrs. Rush has an excellent retina fellowship, and 1-2 residents go on to fellowship each year, usually retina or cornea.
- I don't see too many downsides. The prelim year is not as bad as it sounds. There are some tough surgical months (3-4), but there are also ophtho, derm, neuro, and other no call months.
- One of the best things is how tight knit the residents and attendings are. Most of the attendings either went to Rush med school or residency and truly want to be there and teach.

UIC
- Did not interview there, but people usually think highly of the program. They have a new chairman who is emphasizing research more. Used to be the best program in Chicago.

Northwestern
- Did not interview there, but many people on the interview trail were not impressed with the program.
- Send their residents to Louisiana or maybe now India for surgical volume.

U of C
- I liked this program because all of the faculty seemed very eager to teach. The volume is not that high and there are no resident run clinics, but for some reason I had a good feel there. Most residents seemed happy and were able to get great fellowships.
- New chairman is supposed to make this program up and coming.....

Cook County
- What can I say, its county, the volume is through the roof. Many attendings seemed excited to teach and trained there as well.
- Residents work very hard and see many patients each day.
- Good volume, good teaching, residents get fellowships but program is definitely more clinical than academic.
- Only downside is that like any county hospital, a lot of times you are dealing with the system and it can get frustrating.

This is a great review!

Loved Rush, thought it was great - gorgeous program, building a new 150 million dollar addition to the hospital = more beds/patients/cases. Faculty is strong and very supportive of residents.

Loyola was more clinical in my opinion, not much research emphasized but also strong.

UIC seemed very political, lot's of energetic talk about how much money they have, how great they are and who they hired (one to two faculty seemed really involved).

Have a friend at Stroger who says that seniors all got top choices this year. Most applied cornea and had numerous interviews. Stroger is another solid program, residents are very close and happy.

Regarding fellowship, while some programs are more likely to encourage residents into different areas (retina, cornea, glaucoma, neuroophth, etc.), I am not aware of any program in the city where residents (who wanted to) did not made it into fellowship (except unique situations).

 

[2 Eyes]

they don't do vitrectomies due to lack of a vitrectomy machine, .

I know of one program that has no phaco machine! They use a vitrector's phaco mode to do cataract surgery. 😱

 

[photobug]

I know of one program that has no phaco machine! They use a vitrector's phaco mode to do cataract surgery. 😱

That is the weirdest thing I've ever heard! The vitrector's phaco mode isn't even that good on some of the vitrectors.

 

[photobug]

Loved Rush, thought it was great - gorgeous program, building a new 150 million dollar addition to the hospital = more beds/patients/cases. Faculty is strong and very supportive of residents.

Loyola was more clinical in my opinion, not much research emphasized but also strong.

UIC seemed very political, lot's of energetic talk about how much money they have, how great they are and who they hired (one to two faculty seemed really involved).

Have a friend at Stroger who says that seniors all got top choices this year. Most applied cornea and had numerous interviews. Stroger is another solid program, residents are very close and happy.

Regarding fellowship, while some programs are more likely to encourage residents into different areas (retina, cornea, glaucoma, neuroophth, etc.), I am not aware of any program in the city where residents (who wanted to) did not made it into fellowship (except unique situations).

eyeguy, I'm not sure why you thought UIC was so political. I didn't get that impression as a med student there. I interviewed there also, but decided to go somewhere warmer for residency. The only time I remember them mentioning money was when the chairman was mentioning that they have a lot of research going on in the department, and a lot of grant money within the department. Also, I didn't think they were full of themselves or anything... they are trying to sell you on the program, but every program does that on the interview day. I thought most of the residents, etc. I spoke to were pretty honest about things they liked and disliked. The new hires are huge (esp. Drs. Mieler and Lim in retina), but I may be biased because I am interested in retina. I have a friend there, and seniors all did great in the fellowship match this year: retina at Columbia, retina at Wash U, cornea at UIC--all of which are top tier programs and were also their top choices. One of the other seniors decided late to go into oculoplastics, and the plastics match happens after the new year.

Regarding fellowships, I think it's a little more complicated. Someone may get their top choice, but you also want to know if they also got the interviews they wanted. For example, if someone's applying to retina and only got interviews at lower tier programs, he/she may get their top choice; but it doesn't mean as much as someone who got interviews at the all the top programs around the country and got their second or even third choice.

I also tried to look at whether residents regularly got into the most competitive fellowships (retina, oculoplastics, etc.) and got into good programs. (eg. If you are interested in plastics, you should be looking at whether graduating residents go into plastics--and whether they get the ASOPRS plastics fellowships and not a one-year non-ASOPRS one.) Some programs may only match people into cornea or glaucoma, because their residents may decide it's not even worth it to apply to things like retina or plastics due to how competitive they might be.

 

[2 Eyes]

That is the weirdest thing I've ever heard! The vitrector's phaco mode isn't even that good on some of the vitrectors.

I know. It's crazy that the residency program even maintains accreditation. Shows how political and pencil pushers the ACGME is. That residency has a reasonably good name (not earned). It is the University of ______ (last half of alphabet, M-Z, name redacted by me to protect the guilty). A residency program with no phaco machine? 😱

 

[SlipperyPete]

Cook County
- really high surgical volume
- downsides: poor didactics, faculty is weak (especially in some of the subspecialties), they don't do vitrectomies due to lack of a vitrectomy machine, very disorganized/poor ancillary staff (typical county hospital), weak in terms of fellowship placement/getting competitive fellowships

A few comments,

Surgical numbers are extremely high, well over 200 cataracts (sometimes 9-10per day), 20-30 primary glaucoma procedures, 5-10 primary PKPs, easily 300 glaucoma and diabetes lasers. Residents are the primary surgeons in virtually every case. Surgical cases can be further tailored to a particular resident's interests. Those with an interest in cornea can schedule PKPs/DSEKs etc.

Regarding didactics, lectures are everyday from 8AM-9AM.

Attendings are almost exclusively county grads. They are not highly recognizable names but all are very dedicated to the program. The attendings tend to be young and make for an extremely laid back atmosphere

Vitrectomy is in the near future but will need additional OR time to facilitate this.

Plastics experience is limited as there is one plastics attending who is only there 3 days a month.

All other subspecialties are covered very well.

Ancillary staff leaves something to be desired.

In the past several years residents have matched to their top choices in Cornea, Glaucoma and Peds. I'm not aware of anyone applying for retina or plastics in the past several years.

Clinic is completely resident run and there are 3-4 attendings in clinic daily that are available for staffing as the resident sees fit. Residents work very hard, clinic hours are long, and pathology is endless. Residents leave the program with tons of experience, and would be very comfortable in general practice.

I would say different programs offer different advantages/disadvantages you have to decide where you fit best. Good luck.