Advice about Ranking PM&R programs

[Dreami123]

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[madcye]

BUMP! I too would like this info. Plz

 

[ASUAZCOM]

If you're interested in doing a fellowship or working in academia, I would consider what graduates from each program are doing after residency. Some of the larger programs with questionably less outpatient/procedural experience tend to place residents into much more competitive fellowships.

I have also noticed that some of the smaller, less known programs offer a lot of hands on experience in terms of epidural, ultrasound guided, peripheral joint and botox injections etc...while some of the more reputable and larger programs do not have as many hands on experiences. Part of that might be due to the fellows that tend to be in the larger programs...

 

[Bombesin]

I learned last year that asking about the pros/cons of specific programs compared to one another is not likely to yield valuable answers. It's a small field and while technically "anonymous," people know the person behind the username. Pointing out the cons, while maybe not malicious, can be perceived as so and ignite a flame war.

I am looking for a balanced inpatient/outpatient program that will give me the max amount of opportunities in the future...which of the those three programs do you guys think offer the most hand on experiences?...which of the those three programs do you guys think offer the most hand on experiences?

In all fairness, these are things you should be able to compare and decide upon yourself after interviewing at these programs.

I also want training with good reputation/name since though not the most important part of a potential employee definitely helps in the future.

All three have the "reputation/name."

...in what order you would rank them.

While it seems like a fair question, realize that applicants differ in what they value highly in programs. A suggested rank list serves no purpose unless you understand the responders' values.

 

[MSKalltheway]

One of the main things you want to ask is "will this program give me what I need?" We all need different things, so that's why its a "match". If 10 years down the line you see yourself doing outpatient and will never want to hear the words inpatient rehab again, make sure that program is strong in all that is outpatient. If you have no idea what you'll do, look for programs that are solid in everything. Spinal cord? Maybe an inpatient juggernaut with an in-house SCI fellowship.

So make sure your top choices fit your desires best, even if that involves working from 9-3 everyday and sitting on the beach 😎 (I wouldn't advise going to a place like that, but you get what I'm saying...)

 

[SportsMed09]

Deciding where to rank programs for me depended on the following

1. My fit when I interviewed/rotated
2. The training curriculum/faculty (especially if you are leaning towards a certain path for fellowship/practice)
3. Location

Fit/vibe to me is the most subjective, yet most accurate way to rank programs. I interviewed at a couple of places where the fit was just not there; you have to trust your gut. Location is improtant for quality of life/obligations due to family/spouse, since you need to have outlets, even in a less stressful residency like PM&R.

 

[MedBronc23]

I am doing my intern year in Medicine at the same place that I did medical school at, so I am getting asked by many of my 4th year medical students in our PM&R interest group about their rank list. I will give you the same advice that I give them.

-In my opinion, there are around 10 really strong PM&R residency programs that are stellar that you will likely land the job or fellowship area of choice from. I think there are another 10 programs that are very progressive and have taken the necessary steps forward to include a broad-based curriculum where their residents are taught well in regards to managment, diagnosis, procedures, emg/ncs, balanced inpatient/outpatient, and board prep. Otherwise, the otherwise I found most of the other 40-50 programs lacking in one area that did not suit me personally.
-When ranking a program, I think you should approach it systematically

#1) Does this program offer me what I need to be successful after residency? Will this program train me in all relevant areas of PM&R and prepare me to go out practice, pass boards, and be marketable in a highly competitive healthcare industry.

#2) Do I fit in? Does this place have people that I can see myself working with on a daily basis, think like I do, learn like I do. Will I maximize my abilities and interest here based on the people that came before me. The residents that are already at a program tells you alot about what the program is looking for and if you will fit in. Programs have a personality and culture...they tend to like to keep it that way for better or worse.

#3) Are roads, doors, windows, or cracks open at this place? Can I do the fellowship or area of interest I have here...or will this place get me into a competitive area...pain, sports, msk...ect. if I so desire. Is it easy to get into an area from this program or am I going to spend 3 years fighting the system to achieve what I want? I just told one of my students who is interested in Peds/PM&R that she needs to look at all the places with a Peds Fellowship...frankly they have a fellowship because they are good at it, they have the resources needed for that area, and they have staff to train you there. Do not go to a place thinking that it will be ok if they are lacking in an area that you see yourself doing someday. Change happens, but it is likely that changes will be gradual and not completed at at place that is "making changes" by the time you are ready to complete your training.

#4) Realize that no place is truly balanced. Balance is an ideal and a goal that we should all set for ourselves personally and professionally. However, just like we are better at certain skills and talents individually...so are residency programs. Certain places are good at certain things....always trying to get better...but always better at a few areas. Ask programs what they are strongest and weakest at, good programs will be honest with you...and this helps you weed down your list and prioritize

#5) Does the program give me options? A one trick pony does no one any good. This may seem contrary to my other point about balance...but being more balanced than being only good in one area is far better. I would much rather go to a good program that will expose me to many areas and provide me opportunities to do other things. Face, we all have dreams...but dreams and life change. You do not want to go somewhere that is great at TBI but is horrible at SCI if you are interested in inpatient or just in general. Being dynamic and well-versed in all areas only benefits you as a person. Versatility fits our field well...and I know many successful docs who do many things...inpatient rehab unit, botox/spasticity, stroke clinic, and movement disorder rehab...all in the same week. You can be the expert...and that is great. But try to end up at a place that teaches well in all areas. It will only serve you better on boards and in your future career. Plus, I would rather be good and interested in many areas than put all my eggs in one basket.

#6) Does this program/place fit me, my family, and personal life?: I tell students all the time not to make this the end all be all. Let it be important, but do not pick some place that is "chill" or "relaxed" or "has great weather" and end up going to a mediocre program where you will come out a mediocre resident. Success and individual merit are key and I believe that people can achieve their dreams from anywhere...but having the right resources and training can only help...not having them can only hurt.

Pick someplace your wife, kids, or significant other is ok with for 3-4 years. Where your spouse/sig other can find work. This was easy for me as my wife was an RN and now finishing up NP school...but it can be dicy for some. Happy spouse/gf/bf=happy life. You need a good support system out there...so choose wisely and incorporate the people that are important to you in your life when making your list. If you are single, you should not choose the place with the best night life....over the place with the best program....My students always tell me they do not want to go to places that are smaller....ala Rochester, MN, Ann Arbor, Madison, WI, Columbia, MO, Columbus, OH because they are not big enough...and not enough to do....many of those places have awesome or very good programs if not all of them.... I tell them not to discount a great program because of pure location....you have your whole life and career to be where you want.

#7) When all else fails or push comes to shove...go with your gut, your heart, and your faith.
-I was blessed enough to get many interviews at top places, with great people, great residents and staff, and amazing training. When, it came down to choosing my number one...I picked between a great program in a place where I wanted to live and possibly practice someday...between a program with the best training opportunites, reputation, and fit for me personally and professionally. These were number one and number 2. I picked the latter because I can always move...but I cannot change where I match to easily or at all. I would have been happy at either. I would definitely consider going to my number 2 program for fellowship and will apply there when I am done with training.

There was just a "fit", gut feeling of "belonging", and I knew that if I ranked it the other way I would always wonder.
To Finish, Going to a place with good training, good repuatation, and great teachers again is key. Even in PM&R you still work more than most Americans...so choose wisely. Every place has fun things to do...and you can make the most of any experience. I for one ranked my program #1 because it offerred me the best outpatient experiences that I could find anywhere else which was my interest area. However, it also provided great inpatient training and is consistently ranked at a top ten rehab hospital. Its residents had 100% board pass rate for many years. They were all people like me. I rotated there and assimilated into their culture easily. I had opportunities and electives not offered at many other places. My wife loved the community and had opportunity to have a career there.

Do not have any regrets with your rank list. Its a crapshoot for everyone...but set your self up for the best possible success long term that you can. You only get one shot at this...so make the most of it. It is fun...and there are many great programs out there. When it is all done we all get to work in the best kept secret (not so much anymore) in medicine.

PM&R Rules. When people ask what PM&R does....than I tell them about it, my life, and my career goals....they look at their >80 hour/week surgery and internal medicine hours and sigh with a tear. Nothing is as fun and rewarding as physiatry...period!

 

[PMR 4 MSK]

PM&R Rules. When people ask what PM&R does....than I tell them about it, my life, and my career goals....they look at their >80 hour/week surgery and internal medicine hours and sigh with a tear. Nothing is as fun and rewarding as physiatry...period!

It is amazing how many times docs in other fields have told me if they knew about PM&R when the were in medical school, they may have gone into it.

 

[DeigoT]

It is amazing how many times docs in other fields have told me if they knew about PM&R when the were in medical school, they may have gone into it.

Yep, I recently had a long talk with a neurologist who told me he wishes he had known about PM&R as a medical student. I aslo get this from some medicine residents who are just learning about the field.