Advice about where to apply for residency in Midwest.

[RegulateRo]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I just finished reading a few threads from last year about program rank and what the best programs are etc etc etc. I felt I didn't really get anything out of reading those threads. I am interested in a few different topics within neuro that are unrelated but I feel that I would have a better idea once I'm in residency. I'm interested in neuromuscular, pain, sleep, and neuroimmuno, neuroinfectious disease -- i know all very different, but all seemingly interesting to me. I would like to stay in the midwest. The states I am considering are Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, West Virginia, Pennsylvania -- but I would most like to stay in Ohio or Michigan.

I go to Univ of Toledo for med school which is not too well known. I scored 245 on step 1 and have gotten mainly Honors during my clerkships 3rd year with one High Pass. I don't know If i will get AOA. I am taking a neuro rotation this summer before applying, and I am heavily considering neurology as a field for me, although I am not 100000% convinced yet.

Which programs in the states below do you guys think are excellent. And if you could specify what you think those programs are good at like stroke, research, etc etc etc. Also what kinds of stats would it take to get into places I'm not considering like Partners or the other "top tier" programs. Would I be a good candidate for those programs? Should I consider those programs--like would I not be getting the best education If I didn't go to one of those programs but I had the scores to do so? Some friendly non-malignant advice from students, residents, fellows, attendings, would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Ohio
Michigan
Indiana
Illinois
Pennsylvania
West Virginia

 

[neurologist]

I just finished reading a few threads from last year about program rank and what the best programs are etc etc etc. I felt I didn't really get anything out of reading those threads. I am interested in a few different topics within neuro that are unrelated but I feel that I would have a better idea once I'm in residency. I'm interested in neuromuscular, pain, sleep, and neuroimmuno, neuroinfectious disease -- i know all very different, but all seemingly interesting to me. I would like to stay in the midwest. The states I am considering are Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, West Virginia, Pennsylvania -- but I would most like to stay in Ohio or Michigan.

I go to Univ of Toledo for med school which is not too well known. I scored 245 on step 1 and have gotten mainly Honors during my clerkships 3rd year with one High Pass. I don't know If i will get AOA. I am taking a neuro rotation this summer before applying, and I am heavily considering neurology as a field for me, although I am not 100000% convinced yet.

Which programs in the states below do you guys think are excellent. And if you could specify what you think those programs are good at like stroke, research, etc etc etc. Also what kinds of stats would it take to get into places I'm not considering like Partners or the other "top tier" programs. Would I be a good candidate for those programs? Should I consider those programs--like would I not be getting the best education If I didn't go to one of those programs but I had the scores to do so? Some friendly non-malignant advice from students, residents, fellows, attendings, would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Ohio
Michigan
Indiana
Illinois
Pennsylvania
West Virginia

Don't worry about the Toledo thing. Your grades and scores will get you at least seriously looked at by most places. If you have any research, that will be a plus for the "bigger names."

If you have a preference for Ohio, you obviously need to look at Cleveland Clinic and Case. Both excellent all-around programs nowadays. I think you'd be competitive at either. Ohio State is OK, but not in the same league IMO. Cincinnati has built up a reputation in stroke in particular, but I don't see that listed as one of your interests.

Sorry, but I don't know much about programs in Michigan. UM I guess is good, but I don't have much personal knowlege about it.

Indiana University has good neuromuscular and ID sections, and is a pretty good all around program with some strong faculty.

In Illinois the program I am most familiar with is Rush, which is good, but I think my knowlege may be a bit dated at this point and I don't know much at all about other IL programs.

Pennsylvania (not really "midwestern" in my book) pretty much has Penn and Pitt. Penn of course is a big name program but I wonder if maybe a little too "east coast" for you. Pitt is strong in stroke and epilepsy, not so sure about other areas.

West Virginia, meh.

If you're thinking midwest, you of course also need to consider Iowa and obviously Mayo. If you have possible interest in neuromuscular, pain, sleep and neuroimmuno, you definitely won't find a better place than Mayo in the midwest, or possibly anywhere, for that combination.

Pretty much any of the programs above are going to give you excellent neurologic training if you let them. Going to a "top program" like MGH, etc, matters (maybe) if you want to be a hard core big time academic, or if you just like the prestige factor. Most of those programs, however (except Penn and Mayo), are outside your preferred geographic area. So I'll give you my standard advice: go for the programs you like the best in the place you want to live the most.

 

[RegulateRo]

Thank you for your advice. I would like to stay near NW Ohio. I do have one published paper on concussive injuries (not even close to 1st author), 2 book chapters in a brain repair (neurosurgery) book, and 1 chapter being published in a emergency medicine type book.

I wonder how the UMich program compares to Cleveland Clinic and Case? I guess in terms of location UMich would be the absolute closest to Toledo I can get with a good residency program.

So far the programs you mentioned (I'm trying to make a working list):
Ohio: Cleveland Clinic, Case Western, UCinc (stroke), Ohio State
Michigan: UMich
Illinois: Rush
Minnesota: Mayo (neuromuscular, pain, sleep, neuroimmuno)
Indiana: Indiana Univ (neuromuscular, ID)
Pennsylvania: UPenn (stroke, epilepsy), UPitt
West Virgina: nothing so far
Iowa: UIowa

I sincerely appreciate any more advice anyone has. Even advice about what areas are strong with the programs already mentioned. Thank you in advance.

Don't worry about the Toledo thing. Your grades and scores will get you at least seriously looked at by most places. If you have any research, that will be a plus for the "bigger names."

If you have a preference for Ohio, you obviously need to look at Cleveland Clinic and Case. Both excellent all-around programs nowadays. I think you'd be competitive at either. Ohio State is OK, but not in the same league IMO. Cincinnati has built up a reputation in stroke in particular, but I don't see that listed as one of your interests.

Sorry, but I don't know much about programs in Michigan. UM I guess is good, but I don't have much personal knowlege about it.

Indiana University has good neuromuscular and ID sections, and is a pretty good all around program with some strong faculty.

In Illinois the program I am most familiar with is Rush, which is good, but I think my knowlege may be a bit dated at this point and I don't know much at all about other IL programs.

Pennsylvania (not really "midwestern" in my book) pretty much has Penn and Pitt. Penn of course is a big name program but I wonder if maybe a little too "east coast" for you. Pitt is strong in stroke and epilepsy, not so sure about other areas.

West Virginia, meh.

If you're thinking midwest, you of course also need to consider Iowa and obviously Mayo. If you have possible interest in neuromuscular, pain, sleep and neuroimmuno, you definitely won't find a better place than Mayo in the midwest, or possibly anywhere, for that combination.

Pretty much any of the programs above are going to give you excellent neurologic training if you let them. Going to a "top program" like MGH, etc, matters (maybe) if you want to be a hard core big time academic, or if you just like the prestige factor. Most of those programs, however (except Penn and Mayo), are outside your preferred geographic area. So I'll give you my standard advice: go for the programs you like the best in the place you want to live the most.

 

[Eurosepsis]

Although it's not mentioned in the states you've listed thus far, WashU in St. Louis is a pretty glaring omission and definitely one of the strongest training programs in the midwest.

 

[RegulateRo]

Thanks Eurosepsis!

So far the programs that have been mentioned (I'm trying to make a working list):
Ohio: Cleveland Clinic, Case Western, UCinc (stroke), Ohio State
Michigan: UMich
Illinois: Rush
Minnesota: Mayo (neuromuscular, pain, sleep, neuroimmuno)
Indiana: Indiana Univ (neuromuscular, ID)
Pennsylvania: UPenn (stroke, epilepsy), UPitt
West Virgina: nothing so far
Iowa: UIowa
Missouri: Wash U

I sincerely appreciate any more advice anyone has. Even advice about what areas are strong with the programs already mentioned. Thank you in advance.

Although it's not mentioned in the states you've listed thus far, WashU in St. Louis is a pretty glaring omission and definitely one of the strongest training programs in the midwest.

 

[bustbones26]

If you are looking at PA, would consider UPMC. Program is under rated, but strong. The city of Pittsburgh is great! Everybody has this idea of a polluted city with fuming smoke stacks. That was the case 60 years ago, today is a whole new city. Its not a bad place to live.

When I was doing my residency in Washington (state), I met this group of very select individuals who talked about how the "east coast" was this horrible place. Well, they didn't pay attention in geography class because to them, the "east coast" was anything east of the Mississippi River. I am not joking! Again, I grew up in Pittsburgh, I didn't see any beaches or oceans there. Its not the same as Philadelphia or Eastern PA, don't let people convince you of that, they are very different cities.

Okay, you get the idea

Now for WV, UWV was a program in Weirton. To be honest, that is just over the PA border just south of Pittsburgh. Do not know much about the program other than to say that it is obviously not a big name or well known program.

If you would be willing to go as far as central PA, don't forget about Penn State Hershey Medical Center. Largest medical facility between Pittsburgh and Philly. Not in a big city at all but has a large catchment area. I have met a few residents from that program and they really liked it. They also have a very strong neuromuscular program.

The Cleveland Clinic and Case are good programs too. Cleveland was once rated the poorest city in America. So there are some parts of Cleveland to stay out of. I kind of liked Cleveland though and of course there are some great things to do in the City and there are nice places to live.

 

[RegulateRo]

Thanks Bustbones!

So far the programs that have been mentioned (I'm trying to make a working list):
Ohio: Cleveland Clinic, Case Western, UCinc (stroke), Ohio State
Michigan: UMich
Illinois: Rush
Minnesota: Mayo (neuromuscular, pain, sleep, neuroimmuno)
Indiana: Indiana Univ (neuromuscular, ID)
Pennsylvania: UPenn (stroke, epilepsy), UPitt, Penn State (neuromuscular)
West Virgina: WVU
Iowa: UIowa
Missouri: Wash U

If you are looking at PA, would consider UPMC. Program is under rated, but strong. The city of Pittsburgh is great! Everybody has this idea of a polluted city with fuming smoke stacks. That was the case 60 years ago, today is a whole new city. Its not a bad place to live.

When I was doing my residency in Washington (state), I met this group of very select individuals who talked about how the "east coast" was this horrible place. Well, they didn't pay attention in geography class because to them, the "east coast" was anything east of the Mississippi River. I am not joking! Again, I grew up in Pittsburgh, I didn't see any beaches or oceans there. Its not the same as Philadelphia or Eastern PA, don't let people convince you of that, they are very different cities.

Okay, you get the idea

Now for WV, UWV was a program in Weirton. To be honest, that is just over the PA border just south of Pittsburgh. Do not know much about the program other than to say that it is obviously not a big name or well known program.

If you would be willing to go as far as central PA, don't forget about Penn State Hershey Medical Center. Largest medical facility between Pittsburgh and Philly. Not in a big city at all but has a large catchment area. I have met a few residents from that program and they really liked it. They also have a very strong neuromuscular program.

The Cleveland Clinic and Case are good programs too. Cleveland was once rated the poorest city in America. So there are some parts of Cleveland to stay out of. I kind of liked Cleveland though and of course there are some great things to do in the City and there are nice places to live.

 

[typhoonegator]

Depending on what you're interested in, you might take a look at Northwestern as well.

 

[bustbones26]

Oh, how could I forget. Pittsburgh also has Allegheny General, a very large hospital on Pittsburgh's North Side. One thing that is unusual about the place, they are a teaching hospital of one of the medical schools in Philadelphia????? But located in Pittsburgh.

IMO, if you want to remain in the Midwest, would not look any further east in PA past Pittsburgh.

As typoonegator pointed out Northwest, well Chicago alone has a plethora of programs to choose from !! I myself think that Chicago is a great city if you have to live in a city.

Also, Michigan certainly has programs, and Henry Ford is a good program, but I am not so sure that you want to live in Detroit 😱

Also, don't forget to take a look at U Wisconsin. Maybe a little more north than you are looking, but technically the midwest.

Any programs in Fargo? I was just kidding, you can slap me for that comment later.

 

[AlwaysSearching]

Hi RegulateRo, thanks for starting this thread. It looks like you and I are in a similar position with regards to wanting to apply in the Midwest. I'll be coming home from the East Coast and here's what I'm thinking of in terms of programs thus far.

Brief stats: Top 5 med school, PhD, Step 1 in 220's, honors in clerkships save 1 (EM). AOA probably not going to happen due to some non-traditional scheduling stuff post-PhD.
Interests thus far: Stroke, Epilepsy, poss. Neuromuscular. Interested in academic career.
Planned applications thus far:
MI: UM (top choice), would love to hear about more MI programs with good reps
OH: Case, CC, U-Cincinnati
PA: Pitt, Penn
IL: ??

I'm kind of worried about applying to so few programs, but so far these are the programs I see myself being happy at personally and professionally. It seems everyone on the East Coast stays here so it's hard to get good information about programs elsewhere.

Am I crazy? I know I should also be looking at WashU and Mayo, but my husband and I really want to be closer to family in MI.

 

[pazu]

Hi RegulateRo, thanks for starting this thread. It looks like you and I are in a similar position with regards to wanting to apply in the Midwest. I'll be coming home from the East Coast and here's what I'm thinking of in terms of programs thus far.

Brief stats: Top 5 med school, PhD, Step 1 in 220's, honors in clerkships save 1 (EM). AOA probably not going to happen due to some non-traditional scheduling stuff post-PhD.
Interests thus far: Stroke, Epilepsy, poss. Neuromuscular. Interested in academic career.
Planned applications thus far:
MI: UM (top choice), would love to hear about more MI programs with good reps
OH: Case, CC, U-Cincinnati
PA: Pitt, Penn
IL: ??

I'm kind of worried about applying to so few programs, but so far these are the programs I see myself being happy at personally and professionally. It seems everyone on the East Coast stays here so it's hard to get good information about programs elsewhere.

Am I crazy? I know I should also be looking at WashU and Mayo, but my husband and I really want to be closer to family in MI.

Definitely include Rush and Northwestern. Otherwise, I'd say you have a good list of programs for the Midwest. You can always apply widely geographically, and then if you get enough Midwest interviews, cancel the ones that are further out. Good luck 🙂

 

[RegulateRo]

So far the programs that have been mentioned (I'm trying to make a working list):
Ohio: Cleveland Clinic, Case Western, UCinc (stroke), Ohio State
Michigan: UMich, Henry Ford
Illinois: Rush, Northwestern
Minnesota: Mayo (neuromuscular, pain, sleep, neuroimmuno)
Indiana: Indiana Univ (neuromuscular, ID)
Pennsylvania: UPenn (stroke, epilepsy), UPitt, Penn State (neuromuscular), Allegheny General (Philadelphia program in Pitt)
West Virgina: WVU
Iowa: UIowa
Missouri: Wash U
Wisconsin: Univ of Wisconsin

If you have any to add or have more information about strengths of each program please feel free to reply.

This has been very helpful and I am thankful for your contributions.

@AlwaysSearching goodluck with this whole thing. I am liking UofM too! I would definitely say we should apply to a lot of programs. We can always decline interviews if we are so blessed.

 

[PhakeDoc]

Sorry, a little late to reply...

My opinion based on my interviews, my a priori knowledge of the programs, the recs of my faculty, and talking to others on the interview trail....

For the Midwest, the top programs are (no particular order, with residents from all over and great depth and breadth, good variety of pathology):
Wash U St Louis, U Michigan, Mayo.

Excellent programs that will still get you where you want to go (but might have had a small quirk):
Case, Cleveland Clinic, Iowa, UPittsburgh (yes, I know it's on the East Coast, but I daresay it is more Midwest in feel than East Coast).

Likely very strong training but neither I nor anyone I met interviewed here, nor did I care for any of the applicants whom I met who went to med school here:
Northwestern

Also very strong training but hospital has had recent financial issues which may/may not be resolved:
University of Chicago

Other strong programs that don't quite have the reputations of the above programs, but will give you solid training:
Ohio State, U Minnesota, Indiana, Rush, U Cincinnati

And to the OP - with your stats, I'd apply really anywhere you remotely would be interested in going. You just never know. I got invites from all the top programs I was interested in, but didn't get an invite in a program I'd consider in the #20-30 range. Go figure. If you don't apply, you'll always wonder "what if...." You will [should] easily get interviews in all of the states you listed. The one place I'd be least certain about is likely UPenn.