Advice - Creating a plan

[Dulgz]

To make a long story short I was immature in college, made bad decisions, and I'm ready to get past it. I have taken a break from school since graduating in 2013 and I'm now ready to get back in it to fix my record. I was always a good student but my last 2 years of college spun out of control. I know I'm capable of buckling down and getting my priorities straight. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to fix my record but I'm not sure what the best plan of attack is or if it's even possible to fix the damage I've done.

Priority: DO programs
Secondary: PA programs
Tertiary: Open to ideas

B.S. in Health Science
cGPA 3.02
sGPA 2.15

Re-take courses -> Post-Bac -> SMP?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you

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[arc5005]

I think a lot of people are in the same predicament as you. I am as well.

Try to re-take and replace all grades that are C or worse, especially any pre-reqs (Bio, Chem, Physics, Biochem, Organic Chem) to any programs you are interested in. Some programs do allow for grade-replacement. For example, DO programs will take your latest grade for a course.

Shadow and volunteer in the health field. Shadow and talk to any of the following you think you may be interested in: MDs, DOs, PAs, RNs, NPs, AAs, CRNAs, Podiatrists, Optometrists, Dentists. Get varying opinions. You are going to have people in each career tell you they either love it or they wish they went another route. Also check out Optometry, Podiatry, Anesthesiology Assistant, CRNAs, and other health professions. Figure out the pros and cons of each and which you think you would like to do most, combined with amount of school (MD/DO 4 yrs + 3-7 yr residency, PA 2 yrs. AA 2 yrs, etc...), debt, salary, work hours, lifestyle, hierarchy, autonomy, respect/prestige, etc... There are even levels of prestige within MD/DO specialties...

I personally was thinking a SMP as well, but remember a lot of them (at least with linkages) are very costly 40K - 70K + for a year. My personal plan is just to get my cum and sci gpa both up to 3.4-3.5 range.

My biggest thing I've learned so far from this site is that it's going to take time and you have to be patient. I graduated in 2013 as well. I got back on the band-wagon and started repairing my GPA with 1 class this past summer 2014, and then signed up full-time for fall & spring 2014-2015, and do not plan on applying until the 2016-2017 cycle for the Fall of 2017!

EDITED: I'm not 100% sure, but i think some SMPs or graduate level post-bacs allow for acceptance with lower GPA scores around the 2.9-3.2 gpa range, and some have very good stats/linkage to MD or DO programs. Some have guaranteed interviews if you maintain a certain GPA and get a certain MCAT score, so that may be an option as well, if you really don't mind spending the $! I'm sure if you head to the SMP forum/board you can get better and more specific information!

Best of Luck!

 

[Dulgz]

Thank you, reading this gives me hope and puts me at ease a bit. One thing that confuses me is where I can retake these courses. I originally took courses at a state university but have since moved across the state. Would retaking classes at a local CC be an option or does it have to be a university?

 

[GypsyHummus]

People have come back from worse.

Grade replacement will be your best friend. Retake all grades C and lower. Then hit the MCAT out of the park.

If you are open to ideas, give podiatry and optometry a fair shake. Heck, look into pharmacy. There are people on those forums that get in with 3.0.

When my science GPA was around the 2.9 area, I called lots of professional schools to find a backup career. Optometry schools seem to only take into account overall GPA after a certain point. Podiatry is still very possible. Pharmacy might be possible too, there are a ton of schools that have popped up, and you don't even have to take the PCAT!

 

[arc5005]

Thank you, reading this gives me hope and puts me at ease a bit. One thing that confuses me is where I can retake these courses. I originally took courses at a state university but have since moved across the state. Would retaking classes at a local CC be an option or does it have to be a university?

Hey, it really depends on the school you apply to. I've heard from a minority of individuals saying they have gotten into MD programs with some CC credits; however, the chances are slim.

On the other hand, many people have mentioned that they have gotten into DO schools with CC credits. In fact, LECOM (a DO school) visited the CC I'm currently at and told me that they do not mind CC credits at all (obviously since they came to visit a CC to recruit). I think, if you can afford to take them at a 4 year uni that is the better option; however, for those that cannot then go to a CC and work your butt off. Get good ECs, shadow a DO, shadow a MD, volunteer, get good LOR and prove to schools you are interested! You may need to take 1 or 2 classes at a 4 year if they are not offered at your CC. For instance, BIOCHEM is not offered at my CC so I need to find another school to take it at.

I'm currently at a CC college and have repairing my GPA as well, I started around a 3.0 as well.

 

[Dulgz]

Oh wow that's great to hear. Yeah I'm thinking I'll retake classes at CC if they have it and if there's a class they don't offer that I need to retake I'll take it at University. My main problem is fixing my 2.15 science GPA. Are sGPA and GPA equally important in applying to DO school or does sGPA hold more value?

Would you worry about retaking a lab if its a ≤C? I ask since it's only worth one credit hour in most cases.

Also, is retaking classes after already graduating like I'm doing considered the "DIY Post-Bac"? I keep reading that term and I can't find info on what it means lol

 

[arc5005]

Oh wow that's great to hear. Yeah I'm thinking I'll retake classes at CC if they have it and if there's a class they don't offer that I need to retake I'll take it at University. My main problem is fixing my 2.15 science GPA. Are sGPA and GPA equally important in applying to DO school or does sGPA hold more value?

Would you worry about retaking a lab if its a ≤C? I ask since it's only worth one credit hour in most cases.

Also, is retaking classes after already graduating like I'm doing considered the "DIY Post-Bac"? I keep reading that term and I can't find info on what it means lol

Yeah, I didn't realize your sGPA was a 2.15. That is going to take some serious fixing! But it is not unfixable. Remember that the sGPA that AACOMAS (DO schools) calculates is different than that of the MD application. MD only accounts for Bio, Physics, Chem, Biochem, and DO schools take in account a lot more classes for the sGPA You can quickly google search it to find which classes count towards your sGPA.

From the research I've done, most class profiles have a lower avg. sGPA than cGPA; however, it's usually still above 3.0. You should check out the underdog list on this forum. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2014-2015-underdawgs-thread.1061533/

Post-bac programs are generally post-bac at universities/colleges either undergrad or graduate level classes. Some result in a certificate, others result in a Masters, some are just undergraduate classes (the pre-reqs for MD/DO school).

I'm assuming you can do a DIY-Postbac; however, seems like most universities have a post-bac program these days. However, a DIY-post bac probably doesn't have linkage to MD/DO programs, whereas ones through universities may have them (obviously each program will be different and will have different linkages or none at all).

SMPs are special post-bac programs of Graduate level courses, often equivalent or taken with the medical students.

 

[Dulgz]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, you're very informative.

Do I include labs into my sGPA? I couldn't find any info about it in the "AACOMAS 2015 Application Instructions" pdf file.
I have a few C's in labs, do you think these are worth retaking?

I been doing some GPA calculations, and if I'm realistic and re-take my science classes that are ≤C I can achieve a 3.26 cGPA and 3.14 sGPA. If I hit it out of the park (All A's) I can achieve a 3.39 cGPA and 3.58 sGPA. Would DO schools consider me with my realistic GPA? I know my MCAT score is also a huge factor but that's a number I don't know yet.

Would I still require a Post-Bac program or SMP after fixing my GPA at that point?

Thank you again for taking the time to share your opinion, it means a lot

 

[arc5005]

Thanks for clearing that up for me, you're very informative.

Do I include labs into my sGPA? I couldn't find any info about it in the "AACOMAS 2015 Application Instructions" pdf file.
I have a few C's in labs, do you think these are worth retaking?

I been doing some GPA calculations, and if I'm realistic and re-take my science classes that are ≤C I can achieve a 3.26 cGPA and 3.14 sGPA. If I hit it out of the park (All A's) I can achieve a 3.39 cGPA and 3.58 sGPA. Would DO schools consider me with my realistic GPA? I know my MCAT score is also a huge factor but that's a number I don't know yet.

Would I still require a Post-Bac program or SMP after fixing my GPA at that point?

Thank you again for taking the time to share your opinion, it means a lot

No problem! I've spent a lot of time reading these forums and asking questions. I recommend you to do the same.

Hmm... I can't answer the question about labs for you, since all my classes have course+lab included in the final grade. I also haven't really looked into it, since it doens't apply to me. Try searching for lab grades in the search function on this website. I'm sure it has been discussed previously. My assumption is that, a C or two won't look bad, but you aren't going to want more than that.

As for a SMP or a Post-Bac I would decide on that perhaps after how you see how you do in your re-takes. If you are really dedicated to medicine and getting into DO school, then you should be able to devote the time necessary to study and receive A's in your Re-take courses. I'm currently spending a ridiculous amount of time studying and doing homework for the 17 credits I'm currently taking (none are re-takes though - just pre-med reqs). You need to make sure you can handle medical school, and if you are unable to handle Chem, Bio, O Chem, & Physics then you should probably re-think if you can handle Medical school classes! It's a big thing to think about. I had to think about it for a bit, before dedicating myself towards the DO path over the PA path!

(From what I've read on this forum): Another thing to think about when doing a SMP is that MD/DO programs are going to look at it as the deciding factor, and if say you don't do well, then you can kiss your dream of going to medical school goodbye.

If I were you, I'd first really think hard about if this is the path you want, if YES, then re-take those classes and kick butt in them. Aim for that 3.39 cGPA and 3.58 sGPA, because that would be competitive for most DO programs.

How many semesters and how many classes/credits would you need to re-take?

To get an idea of other people who would be considered "underdogs", check out this page below to see a list of Underdog DO applicants for the 2014-2015 cycle. It includes their cGPA, sGPA, MCAT, interviews, acceptances, etc...:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/2014-2015-underdawgs-thread.1061533/page-24

 

[Dulgz]

Yeah for me the labs were a separate 1 credit hour class that you had a separate grade for. I'll try using the search function like you mentioned and hopefully I can find my answer.

There are 7 classes I'd want to retake and each one is a 3 credit hour course: Gen Chem 1/2, Orgo 1/2, Cell Bio, Physiology, and Genetics. I would be starting this summer so I'd probably be finishing up in about... summer or fall of 2016 (mainly depending on whether I feel confident enough to take Orgo 2 in the summer).

Do you know if any other programs besides DO take the most recent grades? Just so I know my options

 

[arc5005]

I'm not sure. I know DO does. MD averages all grades. CASPA (PA school) does the same thing as MD. You'd have to check other programs or search on these forums.

I'd imagine if your classes are re-takes, you'd be able to grasp the topics more easily.

 

[Dulgz]

6 out of 7 of the classes I plan on retaking were originally at University, 4 of them are prereqs (chem1-2. orgo1-2). Will it hurt my future app that I'm retaking them at community college? I'm about 20 minutes from my local community college but about 45min-1hr driving distance from the closest state university.

 

[Dulgz]

Update post!

I retook 8 classes (5 A's, 3 B's) which are highlighted at the bottom in the GPA calculation excel spreadsheet linked below. I was originally aiming for DO to take advantage of their grade replacement policy but as we all know that has changed so I am now looking at SMPs to apply to as a fallback in case I don't get into medical school later this year. I'm capable of doing well in school but just went through a rough patch during undergrad. I am still debating on whether it's worth applying to medical schools in June given my stats and that grade replacement doesn't exist for DO anymore.

Purpose of this post
If anyone has any advice on what to do next or SMPs and/or medical schools I should look into applying for it would be incredibly helpful. I am a FL resident but am open to OOS programs.

Summary
Wanted to be doctor, did bad in undergrad due to death in family, spent 2 years after graduating in programming and audio engineering industry, realized what I still want is to be a doctor, got a job as chief medical scribe (working 2 years so far), retook 8 classes including some prereqs (3.7 GPA DIY post-bacc), ACOMAS changed policy and now I'm looking at what SMP/medical schools to apply to.

GPA Info
GPA Excel Sheet
AMCAS GPA 3.13
AMCAS sGPA 2.80
AACOMAS GPA 3.37 (What it would of been with grade replacement)
AACOMAS sGPA 3.41 (What it would of been with grade replacement)
DIY Post-bacc GPA 3.71 (8 science courses at a university)
*I'm hoping that admission committees take notice to my upward trend since beginning my DIY post-bacc

Extracirculars
Worked as a chief medical scribe for 2 years.
Was a board member for a pre-medical student organization during undergrad
Member of an honor society for academic excellence during undergrad
I've worked in the programming industry
I've worked in the audio engineering industry
Shadowed cardiac procedures (<10 hrs)

MCAT
Awaiting scores.

 

[Cardboard101]

What is your AACOMAS sGPA?

 

[NecrotizingFasciitis]

Hoping for a big MCAT score for you, OP. When do you find out?

 

[Dulgz]

What is your AACOMAS sGPA?

Now the AACOMAS sGPA is just AMCAS sGPA without the math courses right? If I calculated it right, it is 2.85. The downfall of having so many credit hours already on my record as a graduate, additional classes only budges it up a bit.

 

[Dulgz]

Hoping for a big MCAT score for you, OP. When do you find out?

Thanks! As am I haha. I should find out my score in the next couple of days.

 

[pseud0]

I hope you know that the PA path is quite different and requires rhousands of hours of work experience in a clinical setting.