Advice for a friend in vet school

[CarpeDiem89]

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So I have a seriously weird situation right now and I have no idea how to handle it!! I have a friend who is in veterinary school, almost done with second year, and she is constantly complaining about how she hates people, hate the school, and hates everything. She is probably one of the smartest people I know.... 4.0 in undergrad... is doing fine with grades in vet school AND NEVER STUDIES. She also skips class a lot. I don't know how she does it because I have to work harder then I have ever worked before just to pass.... oh and she does not want to specialize.

Surgery freaks her out she never wants to do it. This girl is in VETERINARY SCHOOL!!! I told her that I don't know of any jobs that does not require surgery or some form of cutting an animal open. Does anyone know of a veterinary job that does not require this??

I personally think she should drop out but she says she does not want to because she is already 2 years in and probably 100K in debt.

She will not stop complaining to me and asking for advice and I am not a psychologist and I don't know what to do! I would never bring my animals to this person at all and I feel bad for people who would. In fact I can't think of anyone that would even hire her! She is not involved in anything (not even SCAVMA) and has a awful attitude.

I am to the point where I just want to stop being friends with her... and she does not really have very many friends at all so I feel bad. I know it sounds harsh but I seriously don't know what else to do... I have told her to go to the school psychologist but she refuses.

It is kind of a strange situation but does anyone else have people like this in there class or know of people like this in there class? What would you say to this person?

I am awful with giving advice to people who are having a rough time and I never know what to say. I feel like a mean person by telling her to basically shut up and stop complaining. 🙁 But this has been going on for 2 years now and I can't imaging how this person is going to do in clinics. ADVICE PLEASE!

 

[LetItSnow]

Surgery freaks her out she never wants to do it. This girl is in VETERINARY SCHOOL!!! I told her that I don't know of any jobs that does not require surgery or some form of cutting an animal open. Does anyone know of a veterinary job that does not require this??

Sure. Surgery isn't for everyone. I know of several clinics in the area that have doctors who prefer not to perform surgery (and instead pass that on to other doctors in the same practice). In the end, it improves client care - the ones that enjoy surgery do more of it and thus stay more proficient. The ones who don't like it are able to focus on keeping other skills/knowledge up to snuff.

As to the overall picture of her dislike of vet school ... so what? One of my best vet friends has told me dozens of times how much she loves practice and despised school.

 

[Marsala]

She sounds miserable. Does she actually want more friends, or is she happy being misanthropic and alone?

If I were you and this person kept whining and complaining about everything, I would tell her that you find her very unpleasant and that her attitude is ruining your friendship. You need to be honest and up-front with her.

 

[Fireflysushi]

How about animal nutrition? She could do a residency and become a specialist in things that don't require her to do surgery like radiology, nutrition etc. She has to do it to graduate vet school though...

 

[bunnity]

Vet school does suck and I get how she feels. I am not sure how she manages to do okay without studying though. I don't think there is anyone in my class that could get away with that.

Yes there are jobs without surgery. Public health, aquaculture, many specialties, working for government or industry, or just a regular job that doesn't need you to do surgery because other doctors are there that prefer surgery.

I really really hate vet school. I really do. But I am beyond excited to be a vet and I know this is what I need to do to get there. Is that how your friend feels? does she want to be a vet?

 

[katsmiaow]

There are jobs for vets who don't actually want to do surgery: regulatory jobs with the USDA, for example. However, this is a conversation that she should have with the psychologist or other faculty member, as you have suggested. It's not very fair for her to be putting this burden on you.

I might find some way of telling her that it's not okay to keep complaining to you, and that it's a distraction that you can't afford. You can be supportive of her, of course, but she needs to decide the course of her career for herself. Next time she talks to you about this, perhaps you could tell her that you're not okay with the conversation, that it's making you feel very uncomfortable, and that she needs to talk with the psychologist or other counselor.

 

[Bill59]

A lot of people don't like surgery. There are plenty of options there: public health, cardiology, internal medicine, behavior, radiology, radiation oncology, anesthesia, clinical pathology, anatomic pathology, pharmacology, parasitology, microbiology, epidemiology, immunology, sports med/rehab, dermatology (other than skin biopsies) ...

Hating vet school is not a deal breaker either, especially in 2nd year. On the other hand, if she hates veterinary medicine in general, she's got a big problem. If that's the case, the sooner she gets out the better.

 

[mooshagen]

Um.... of course there are veterinary jobs that do not require surgery. Part of the many perks of this being a multi faceted field. Research is one for example, that does not require surgery in many cases.

 

[CarpeDiem89]

Vet school does suck and I get how she feels. I am not sure how she manages to do okay without studying though. I don't think there is anyone in my class that could get away with that.

Yes there are jobs without surgery. Public health, aquaculture, many specialties, working for government or industry, or just a regular job that doesn't need you to do surgery because other doctors are there that prefer surgery.

I really really hate vet school. I really do. But I am beyond excited to be a vet and I know this is what I need to do to get there. Is that how your friend feels? does she want to be a vet?

Thanks for the advice. She says she does not want to specialize so I guess that's out of the question...

Usually her awful outlook about everything is not so hard to handle. But the other day I told her... don't worry! remember why you are here its because you like medicine and you are going to be a doctor!

and she responded... umm no I actually hate medicine and I hate this whole industry. There is nothing that has interested me so far and I hate all the teachers and all my classmates.



I know vet school is not fun... but come on! She has some serious social issues which is why I am worried about her becoming a vet. I know for sure that there is no vet job that doesn't require you to work with people...

I am the exact opposite... I actually like vet school. I like all the clubs I am in and I love my classmates. She is always making fun of me for being involved and she always gets mad when I talk to certain people she doesn't like. I feel like I am in high school again...

 

[ouijetaime]

Sounds like she is a very toxic person for you to be around. It is not your job to solve her problems. Cut her loose and get on with your studies. You do NOT need her dragging you down! (This is from my experience of cutting out a toxic relationship 2 years ago. All for the best).

 

[bunnity]

It could be that she is dealing with depression, or it could be that she needs to change fields... it's hard to tell and she probably doesn't even know. I would definitely suggest the counselor idea again.

It's somewhat surprising to me that people are saying "cut her out of your life." I don't think it is appropriate to just walk away from someone who is having a hard time. I think it's definitely warranted to sit her down and let her know that you're worried about her, that you hate to see her feeling this bad, and that hearing about it at this frequency is starting to affect you as well. Tell her what you can and can't do as her friend... part of being friends with someone IS helping them when they are not at their best, but it shouldn't always be a one way street. She should be there for you when you need it too.

Also, it may be just as hard for her to hear how much you love everything as much as it is hard for you to hear how much she hates everything. When I am feeling down about school it drives me nuts when someone else is just oh.so.happy and thinks I should be too. I'm not saying you do that, but maybe you guys just need to focus less of your conversations on school and stick mostly to real life.

Just curious... how far along are you in vet school? I'm just confused why you hadn't heard of any non-surgery jobs.

 

[CarpeDiem89]

Just curious... how far along are you in vet school? I'm just confused why you hadn't heard of any non-surgery jobs.

2nd year. Its not that I have not heard of non surgery jobs... I guess that was a little unclear. But she wants to work directly with animals, does not want to specialize, and never wants to physically go inside of an animal.I know about the path jobs, research jobs, goverment jobs etc but she wants to work in a hospital. I also didn't realize that some vets in general practice just leave all the surgery up to the other vets. If I were hiring though and a new vet grad put on his resume that she didnt ever want to do surgery I would not hire her just because I can hire someone else who can... I guess it will be harder for her to find the job she wants but I am glad its possible.

She felt bad for my dog when I got her spayed... she said that its unfair that I took out her organs and that if she could talk she would not want that... I replied with "yeah its not like she really knows what happened or really cares.. plus she will be healthier so it was a good thing"

Friend did not agree. Little weird if you ask me.

 

[squeegee]

Friend did not agree. Little weird if you ask me.

have you guys learned all the benefits of spaying animals already? it's a little weird that she could have the point of view that it's not beneficial for their health when it's proven to lower the risk of neoplasia, pyometra, etc....i wonder how that will work out for her in practice

i kind of have to agree with the "cut her off" thoughts- school is hard enough without having to be constantly surrounded by negative attitudes, worrying about whether you're going to get 'in trouble' for talking to certain people, or made fun of for following things that you enjoy (like joining clubs)....maybe to be less harsh you could tell her how her attitude and pessimism is negatively affecting your friendship and it's making you want to distance yourself from her because of those things. if she wants to keep you as a friend she wouldn't want to see you negatively affected by her bad attitude and hopefully would choose to minimize her negativity/making fun of you for things she doesn't agree with. and if she still doesn't care then unfortunately maybe it's time to let the friendship go. one alternative is to hold out for clinics, where you will be so busy on different rotations you won't see her as much anyway.

i have been in your shoes wayyy too often, and all i can say is you can only be someone's cheerleader for so long before it's just too much

 

[NittanyKitty]

I'll ditto what everyone else has already said - there are tons of veterinary careers both clinically and non-clinically based where you never go near a surgery bay. That's not much of an issue. And as far as hating vet school? There are very few people who can honestly say that they LOVE vet school and even fewer who love it all the time. Lighten up - hating the process but loving the end result is just part of professional school for a lot of students. If her complaining is getting to you then distance yourself from her and hang out with other people.

 

[CarpeDiem89]

have you guys learned all the benefits of spaying animals already? it's a little weird that she could have the point of view that it's not beneficial for their health when it's proven to lower the risk of neoplasia, pyometra, etc....i wonder how that will work out for her in practice

Me too... this was one statement that really worries me about her. Its not that she doesn't like to do surgery for normal reasons like just not liking the activity of doing it. But she does not like it because she does not feel like the animal would "want" to have surgery done on it. She said "I honestly can't stand the idea of a human being intruding past anothers skin. Its just wrong. No one has any rights to take out organs of something else without permission"

exact thing she said when I told her my dog got out of surgery... and yes... we have learned all the benefits of spaying... Its not really her not liking surgery that bothers me... its her ideas of why she doesn't like it. 🙁

 

[Bill59]

She felt bad for my dog when I got her spayed... she said that its unfair that I took out her organs and that if she could talk she would not want that....

Yeah, my dog is still a little ticked off about his testicles disappearing while he was asleep. But if he could talk he would also say he would prefer to spend all day chasing cars, eating cat poop and birthday cake and drinking out of the toilet ... so I'm not sure he's the best one to decide what's good for him.

Not wanting to do surgery is no big deal. Not wanting any animal to have surgery is more of a problem.

 

[quantized]

Vet school blows. Can't blame her for that view. It's basically 4 years of paying money for someone to continuously punch you in the kidney. Tell her if she doesn't want to quit then to stop asking for advice and deal with it like everyone else has to.

 

[nyanko]

Also, I would most assuredly want to poke somebody's eyes out if they were acting all enthusiastic about vet school at this (also last half of 2nd year) point in our program.

 

[Psorophoraferox]

I'm glad some vet schools focus more on undergrad grades than veterinary experience, understanding of the profession, love of medicine, and maturity, and won't even look twice at an applicant with a lower GPA.




Sorry to be all Negative Nancy (Pessimistic P. ferox?), but as someone with a lower cumulative GPA but with years of veterinary of experience, knowing that most schools would accept your friend but not accept me is ... beyond frustrating. 👎 🙁 [ /bitter]

From what you've said, it sounds like she'd be much happier in another field altogether. To echo everyone else, counseling could help her figure out what it is she DOES want to do. Two years of vet school tuition is a lot of money to "waste", but better two years' tuition than four years', all for a career she doesn't even want to be in!

 

[HelloNello]

.

 

[saki117]

My best friend is kind of going through the same thing with a girl at her job. I keep telling her that if this girl doesn't want to help herself your probably not going to fix her. 🙄 Either tell her she needs to quit being debbie downer or hang out with positive friends. All she's gonna do is add to your stress which I'm sure you already have enough of being in vet school! My question is why did she go to vet school if she hates everything involved with vet school or the profession??

 

[CarpeDiem89]

My question is why did she go to vet school if she hates everything involved with vet school or the profession??

I'm not really too sure... I have known her for 6 years and though out undergrad she has always been pre-vet. She didn't do as much shadowing as she probably could have. I worked at a vet and I pretty much forced her to go to work with me to get hours for her resume. She got the minimum she needed I guess... But honestly it was her 4.0 that got her in. And the fact that shes fluent in 2 other language. I guess it just looked good to the admissions committee. But she had no horse, food animal, exotic experience... just the small animal vet that I worked for. Maybe she felt more comfortable that I was there and she was more social because the doctors all wrote her letter of recommendation.

Also, I would most assuredly want to poke somebody's eyes out if they were acting all enthusiastic about vet school at this (also last half of 2nd year) point in our program.

Oh I am for SURE not going around all sunshine and happiness. There are some people who do that and I do want to punch them sometimes. I don't even get that good of grades and I really struggle just to pass. Its frustrating when people walk down the halls with there giant A+ so everyone can see.

I just meant I am happy with vet school because I like the majority of classmates, the teachers, and I overall just know that this is where I am meant to be. After the end of a stressful round of tests I just feel so happy that I am one step further to my DVM. But I am not happy at all a few days before that test! I have only asked the question "is this worth it" once. It was in undergrad during organic chem final lol. Even though I feel like I am barely scrapping by with grades I am not going to beat myself up about it. I have made it this far so obviously I deserve to be here! Ok done with my rant lol. I just wish my friend would feel the same way, or figure out what would make her happy. : ( I do care about her and I remember in undergrad when she was happy and a lot better person to be around. I kind of wish my other classmates would give her a chance so she would feel more accepted. But... my class is like high school all over again.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Like others have said, it sounds like this friend of yours might be depressed and this is her way of sending out distress calls. She probably just feels uber crappy and doesn't even know why, but is looking for some type of savior to come and swoop her out of her funk. And obviously, that ain't happening. From personal experience, I don't think there's really any way to reason someone out of that state. No matter what you say, they'll think of another reason to claim that they're unhappy. Every time you think of a solution, they'll come with a reason for dismissing that solution, and so on and so forth.

As a friend, I think the best you can do is try to steer her towards getting professional help. I know it can be really taxing to be around people like this, but if she's really a good friend of yours, I wouldn't kick her to the curb.

 

[Emiloo4]

She said "I honestly can't stand the idea of a human being intruding past anothers skin. Its just wrong. No one has any rights to take out organs of something else without permission"

I thought they did PETA screenings in interviews 🙄

 

[Ben and Me]

Maybe her religious background is one that doesnt believe in modern, Western medicine (aka surgical intervention?)

I wonder how she feels about non-elective surgeries and euthanasia?

 

[bayarea15]

I thought they did PETA screenings in interviews 🙄

Op, I support peta's ideas in many areas, but it may not be so much about animals for her, maybe she feels its disrespectful in general, towards animals and also humans who need sx. Many people feel intact animals are happier, its not just a peta thing.

She obviously loves animals, and is intelligent, let her do as she wishes.

Op, You need to do you, and worry about yourself. You can't expect people to all fit into one group, vet school is not made of cookie cutter folks, and neither is any industry when you get down to it.



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[CarpeDiem89]

Op, You need to do you, and worry about yourself. You can't expect people to all fit into one group, vet school is not made of cookie cutter folks, and neither is any industry when you get down to it.

It is true that I need to worry less about it. I just feel bad when she sends me scary text messages and I don't respond. But I do plan on talking to her, sometime during this week, about how she needs to stop asking me for advice.

I don't expect her to fit into all one group, she never has, but the fact that she is so unhappy with vet med in general. She wants to drop out but she is scared to because of the financial damage. It just sucks that someone has made it this far, wants to drop out, but can't because she is a OOS student and already in 100K of debt in her second year. She is basically stuck in a profession that she does not want to be in.

 

[bayarea15]

Not sure how old you or your friend are, but as you get older your interests change, she might wanna be a vet later. And you could want to be an aeronautical engineer. Ya never know. I am 28, and 10 yrs ago, the thought of being a vet never crossed my mind. I wanted to major in social work, journalism, zoology. And 10 yrs before that when I was 8 yrs old, I wanted to become a writer and an opthamogist. We all change. Except the lucky ones.

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[bayarea15]

Sorry for my typing mistakes BTW, on my phone. 😉

Just relax, and let her do the same thing. She trusts your opinion and thinks the world of you, otherwise I don't think she would have a damn what your response was to her dilema.

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[OwlandPussycat]

I definitely second the opinion that your friend could be dealing with depression. Either way, she would probably be better off discussing things with a counselor/professional who could help channel her difficulties in a constructive manner.

 

[wombat6]

Hi CarpeDiem, I don't know if you are still checking this thread, but I thought I would give my two cents just in case. I had a friend very much like this in school. I too felt bad for her and stuck by her b/c I thought that is what she needed and it would eventually help. This went on for 7 years that I tried to help. Unfortunately, hindsight is 20/20 and now I realize that she was clinically depressed and needed much more therapy/help than I could ever give her. In addition, my trying to help her only ended up hurting me in the long run, and she never realized this or cared about the problems or pain she could be inflicting on others. When you are clinically depressed, you don't realized these things, or if you do there isn't much you feel you can do. However, as you are the one that isn't depressed and does see the problems this could cause, you do have the right to save yourself. Nothing you do/say/try will change her. You've done the absolute best thing you could do for her in recommending she see someone for her depression/anxiety/stress. However, if she isn't willing to take the next step and help herself, then you must move on. There isn't a reason to be mean or rude, but there will need to be a very honest conversation that makes it clear that for your own mental growth/survival in vet school that her negative thinking can not be in your space right now. You are welcome to stay friends with her, but I wouldn't put her in your company until she gets things right in her own mind. Sounds like you both need space, for personal growth and improvement. You aren't doing her any favors by delaying this conversation. Even if she doesn't understand, it is something that you need in order to be the best person you can be. No matter where she is in life, she doesn't have the right to drag you down with her and you don't have to be her savior. You will look back one day and wish her the best, but you will also know it was better that you let her go. Good luck with vet school and I wish all the best for you and your friend.