Advice for an Incoming Medical Student Interested in Pathology?

[tensoranalysis]

My thought gets on the Harvard article:

Interventional radiology obviously will stay. Diagnostic radiology should go away, but medicine being a guild craft will probably manage to require human "overread" of images. VA and Kaiser, for example, have huge databases of images with associated readings. NLP software to parse the reading for an xray and ML to identify things should get around the claim of no repository of tagged images, etc. That approach will take longer to mature than using images with features tagged, though.

AI caption of image. Credit to F. Chollet's blog The limitations of deep learning

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[wholeheartedly]

Having worked in clinical lab medicine for a good decade, I'm not real concerned with AI taking over any time in my lifetime.

Yeah, there are some cool developments that help out and make things more efficient. But for every new automated thing I've seen get put into use that's supposed to improve efficiency and reduce staff, you always wind up needing that staffing back to troubleshoot the thing, manually double check when unexpected quirks are found, and fix the damn thing. They tend to never work out as well as promised in the real world. We've come a long way with technology, but have a long way to go before AI starts really replacing people in a significant way.

Radiologists aren't going anywhere and neither are pathologists.

 

[yaah]

People "worry" about AI - fine. Worry. But AI is an evolving technology, it's not going to suddenly replace much of anything. I am confused by the assumption from many on this board that AI will somehow only negatively impact pathology. Why won't it negatively impact emergency rooms? Or family practice? AI with training could probably effectively triage a high volume of patients. And if AI can drive cars, why can't it operate surgical robots?

 

[yaah]

Interest is falling because the former profession has been commoditized and pathologists are treated increasingly as subordinates by our peers, hospital admin, and regulators/insurance negotiators. This being due to the massive oversupply created by Big Academia.

Not from where I sit. There are different standards now but they apply to everyone. It is getting a bit more challenging to make "easy money" but I don't know if that's really a bad thing.

A lot of interest is falling because many things formerly taught in med school (or ways of teaching) are being eliminated or significantly reduced. Students don't look at slides any more, they have self study modules and more time in ethics classes and clinics. Students used to be able to learn about pathology and consider it as a career option - now they may never be exposed to it unless they go out of their way. If I was entering med school these days, I highly doubt I would enter the field, mainly because I would never have even thought to consider it.

Anecdotes about 65 year olds who can't find work are frankly not very compelling to me. And as far as top candidates not being desired, that's flat wrong. The last few candidates we have hired or offered positions to had multiple competing offers which were high quality from my perspective. As I have posted before, it seems like it wouldn't be hard to pass basic thresholds of competence and desirability from the perspective of those doing the hiring, but it really appears to be true. We have talked in our group about lowering our standards but so far have not resorted to that. But every hiring cycle it becomes more likely.

 

[dukeresident]

People "worry" about AI - fine. Worry. But AI is an evolving technology, it's not going to suddenly replace much of anything. I am confused by the assumption from many on this board that AI will somehow only negatively impact pathology. Why won't it negatively impact emergency rooms? Or family practice? AI with training could probably effectively triage a high volume of patients. And if AI can drive cars, why can't it operate surgical robots?

The question is, I think, which areas will be least affected by AI/ML.

 

[Slappin' glass]

Don't go into path if you'd be happy doing something else. Pathologists are much more dispensable than other specialties. Partners have no incentive to retire and too many pathologists coming down the pipe line. If you do land a job, you'll likely be churning out cases and burning out.

 

[yaah]

Don't go into path if you'd be happy doing something else. Pathologists are much more dispensable than other specialties. Partners have no incentive to retire and too many pathologists coming down the pipe line. If you do land a job, you'll likely be churning out cases and burning out.

This is pretty much true for any job in the world. Why would anyone go into a job that doesn't make them happy? Clearly some people do, maybe because they're mistaken in their initial impression or maybe the job changes.

Look at burnout scores across medical specialties - pathologists are typically at the lower end of the spectrum.

 

[dukeresident]

This is pretty much true for any job in the world. Why would anyone go into a job that doesn't make them happy? Clearly some people do, maybe because they're mistaken in their initial impression or maybe the job changes.

Look at burnout scores across medical specialties - pathologists are typically at the lower end of the spectrum.

That may have something to do with our personalities...

 

[maplecookie]

Hello,

Also an incoming MS1 with an interest in pathology. I had a few questions I am hoping people can answer:

-Are away rotations really necessary for good programs? I’d be open to doing them but I’m worried about their cost.

-What are considered the really good places for path residency?

-I’m very interested in academic medicine, what are the outlooks for academic pathology? It seems that as long as you have a reasonably competitive CV you can do ok in the PP market but how is it with academia?

Thank you!

 

[tiredguy]

Hello,
-Are away rotations really necessary for good programs? I’d be open to doing them but I’m worried about their cost.

Definitely not necessary but can move an average candidate into the upper part of the average pool and thus impact whether they match at a particular program or not. If one program stands out to you above the others, it might be worth doing it - don't forget you will gain tremendous insight into the strengths and weaknesses of a program during this time. On the first day of a month-long rotation you'll probably hear everything no one was willing to tell you on a 1-day interview.

-What are considered the really good places for path residency?

Many threads on this with no clear consensus, although you will see certain names come up frequently (for instance, UCSF, JHU, MGH, BWH...actual resident experience at a given program will vary). According to some, you may not even need to go to a "really good" place; a lot depends on who you are and what you want to get out of it.

-I’m very interested in academic medicine, what are the outlooks for academic pathology? It seems that as long as you have a reasonably competitive CV you can do ok in the PP market but how is it with academia?

Generally speaking, academic pathology is not competitive and expectations are greatly variable. That being said, the CV matters more in academics than in PP though ultimately connections and networking overshadow the CV for both academics and PP jobs - e.g., even in academics some people may know about a potential job opening long before it is posted.

 

[maplecookie]

Definitely not necessary but can move an average candidate into the upper part of the average pool and thus impact whether they match at a particular program or not. If one program stands out to you above the others, it might be worth doing it - don't forget you will gain tremendous insight into the strengths and weaknesses of a program during this time. On the first day of a month-long rotation you'll probably hear everything no one was willing to tell you on a 1-day interview.



Many threads on this with no clear consensus, although you will see certain names come up frequently (for instance, UCSF, JHU, MGH, BWH...actual resident experience at a given program will vary). According to some, you may not even need to go to a "really good" place; a lot depends on who you are and what you want to get out of it.



Generally speaking, academic pathology is not competitive and expectations are greatly variable. That being said, the CV matters more in academics than in PP though ultimately connections and networking overshadow the CV for both academics and PP jobs - e.g., even in academics some people may know about a potential job opening long before it is posted.

Thank you so much for your answers!

 

[gasbait]

Hello all,

I apologize for not responding to my own thread; the last few months have been extremely crazy for me with preparing for medical school and trying to finish up my research projects before I leave.

I have, however, read all of the advice/comments/feedback in this thread, and I really want to thank everyone for all of the help you provided me! Though the content/tone was definitely not uniform, I feel like I have a much better picture of what I am getting myself into and what I might want to think about if I decide to pursue pathology.

I will definitely keep all of this information in mind as I begin my medical school career and certainly come back if I have additional questions.

Thanks again!