Advice for contract negotiation in academics

[Justice4all]

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Although most academic positions are standard. Any wiggle rooms for negotiation?. Not interested in private practice. Will appreciate fellow members input. Thanks

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Take it or leave it.

 

[Mman]

Although most academic positions are standard. Any wiggle rooms for negotiation?. Not interested in private practice. Will appreciate fellow members input. Thanks

BOHICA

They aren't negotiating, they are offering you the same contract as everyone else.

 

[Stank811]

You can always negotiate. Academics have flexibility just like anyone else. Really depends on if you fill gaps in their needs. For example, the academic center might be short in intensive care docs in their department so may be willing to start you at the associate professor level vs instructor. If you are interested in teaching or research and have some experience implementing ideas they may be willing to give you some additional non clinical days to implement etc.

 

[CubsDynasty]

Agree with what others have said. The payment structure is often very rigid, I haven't heard of anyone successfully changing the $ numbers. Some places may offer a small relocation and small sign on bonus which may not be openly disclosed, so speak to other recent hires there to see if they received it. Depending on the situation though you may be able to change your scheduling and possibly call structure if you can offer additional services. I've seen this with people who covered shifts at the children's hospital as well or in the ICU that were exempt from general OR call.

 

[DM27]

From my experience the above holds true. They generally won’t give you money, but they’ll give you time. Things like non-clinical days or working at other centers in the system etc.

 

[IlDestriero]

Everything is negotiable to some degree. However every shop is different and the chair may or may not be able to negotiate different things. I negotiated full relocation expenses vs the $10k they offered. I also got full vacation from day 1 vs a 3 year bogus bump up system. I also asked for more money based on my experience and showed them a couple higher offers. It wasn’t very successful, but I got a 2% increase. That’s money that would have been left on the table if I hadn’t pushed for it. Some places have a fixed income based on rank and experience. A place like that might give a signing bonus and have some flexibility there. We had one when I joined, it went away and as far as I know it’s not back yet as we have more qualified applicants than positions, and I think they realize that it’s a pretty good gig. They may or may not be able to bring you in at an advanced rank, as that has to be approved by the promotions board. If you don’t qualify, they won’t approve it. It can be advantageous for you to come in as a clinical instructor as the up or out clock doesn’t start until you’re an assistant professor. That’s time to make contacts, line up mentorship, look into funding and local resources, etc. while you’re getting your academic ideas on track.
The easiest thing to negotiate is protected academic/admin time. It could be 10-60% based on your expected productivity and admin responsibilities.

 

[deleted171991]

It never hurts to ask, especially if THEY are recruiting YOU.

If you're a fresh grad, FUGGEDABOUTIT (except for minor stuff).

 

[vector2]

In my experience the chairman has way more wiggle room and ways to fudge the numbers than one would expect. It wouldn’t surprise me if our faculty of 20 MDs had 20 different paystubs. But I agree with ffp above that you’re not gonna be getting much as a new grad unless the dept is lacking in a particular fellowship, has had difficulty recruiting, and you’re bringing that coverage (including call)

 

[abolt18]

It never hurts to ask, especially if THEY are recruiting YOU.

If you're a fresh grad, FUGGEDABOUTIT (except for minor stuff).

Indeed. And being willing to walk away is a powerful thing if they really need you. One of my CCM attendings walked away from negotiations with our old chair 3 times before the chair ended up caving in the things that were most important to him. (Less total contracted work, and CCM only.)

 

[deleted171991]

Btw, in academia, as in any corporate job (but typically not in small PP groups), they can/will F you ten ways over, especially if stuff is not included in the written contract (which typically is the case). Meaning that you may get the concessions that you wanted, but then you'll also get the payback for being "special". Once you're hired, unless you're truly special and difficult to replace, the courtship is over, and your bosses own you (at least in their minds). People are envious, and they don't easily accept that somebody has an easier life because s/he negotiated better. So you may be the guy with less contracted work who does as many or more calls than the others, or has the more NORA days etc. Tough luck! Just look at how much people hate/envy locums or day docs.

Food for thought: Until I became an anesthesiology resident, I had never ever heard a physician being called a "body". I have also never seen any other specialty attending physician ever push a stretcher or a cart, or do menial jobs, not even in PP. No interventional specialist sets up for their cases. Etc. One has nurses for that.

So, if you're a fresh grad asking for an academic job, stop "negotiating". You're probably not worth much in the eyes of the bean counters.

Because, if you really were worth something...

 

[urge]

Although most academic positions are standard. Any wiggle rooms for negotiation?. Not interested in private practice. Will appreciate fellow members input. Thanks

You can, if you are some sort of super star. Most people are not.