Advice for DO radiology programs

[Throckmorton82]

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I'm sure a bunch of OMS-IV's just finished a round of audition rotations, any advice about which programs are considered the better ones out of the osteopathic radiology programs?

Considering their were only 26 spots in the nation for the upcoming match, I take it that its very competitive?

The only program I've heard bad things about his Oklahoma State...anyway any advice is much appreciated.

👍

 

[Jacknut]

I felt like most of the MI programs were on par or better than many MD programs, when comparing to community based programs that is.The MI programs have a strong didactic backbone from the MSU affiliation. Once a week you'll be going for an entire day of lectures at MSU.
I didn't get a chance to visit the Ohio programs, but I've heard Doctors in Columbus is great.
Oklahoma State honestly was crap. No didactics, shi**y state to live in. I was least impressed with their residents. Everything is run by the residents pretty much. I would avoid this program, put it at the bottom of your rank list.
Dont know much about the Chicago program. The MI programs that I liked were Huron Valley, Pontiac Osteopathic Hospital, Oakwood, and Henry Ford. Not a fan of Botsford and Garden City. Garden city just seemed like a place I would not be happy at. The residents at Botsford seemed stressed to me, also they were IMO the weakest compared to other program residents.

PM me if you want details.

 

[Osteopathology]

I liked what I saw in NY at Barnabas. I would recommend it -- the residents are awesome. Didactics are provided by Montefiore attendings.

 

[novado]

Did you really rotate at these places?

When I rotated at these places 2 years ago, I had the opposite impression of many of these places. The people at Columbus were miserable. Old attendings were falling asleep on their dictaphones. Residents were telling me how malignant it was there. The people at Botsford seemed happier than most of the other places I rotated at. They had a long disagreement about some case shown in conference, which shows that the residents have some say about what goes on in their program. Most of the programs I rotated at had little to no didactics. Botsford had the most, with daily lunch conference and the once a weeke MSU conference.

How many MD programs did you rotate at?
ALL of the MD programs I rotated at were far better than most of the osteopathic programs. Few osteopaths have fellowships and fewer had any didactics on a regular basis.

 

[Vizsla]

how exactly does the education content at a DO rads residency differ from that of a MD one? if the quality of MD programs is superior, wouldnt you just rather go to a MD prog? there are some great mich programs other than u mich: william beaumont, henry ford

 

[Jacknut]

Did you really rotate at these places?

When I rotated at these places 2 years ago, I had the opposite impression of many of these places. The people at Columbus were miserable. Old attendings were falling asleep on their dictaphones. Residents were telling me how malignant it was there. The people at Botsford seemed happier than most of the other places I rotated at. They had a long disagreement about some case shown in conference, which shows that the residents have some say about what goes on in their program. Most of the programs I rotated at had little to no didactics. Botsford had the most, with daily lunch conference and the once a weeke MSU conference.

How many MD programs did you rotate at?
ALL of the MD programs I rotated at were far better than most of the osteopathic programs. Few osteopaths have fellowships and fewer had any didactics on a regular basis.

No Novado I'am completely lying, I didnt rotate at any of those places.
Are you sure you rotated at Botsford?

I rotated at two MD locations. Most of the DO programs I rotated at were on par or better than the MD programs of similar size/community programs. I will even venture out to say better than some of the bigger MD programs.
Saying that radiology is a lot of "off shift" hard work, a lot of self-motivation and self studying, thus its up to you to make the best out of it no matter what program you go to.

About Columbus, from what Ive heard a lot has changed in the last couple of years.

I agree with you that Botsford had strong didactics (probably the 2nd or 3rd most of the MI programs), but I was not at all impressed with their residents. The PD is a really sharp guy though.

Pretty much all the DO MI programs now have daily lectures or more plus the 5-8 hrs at MSU once a week.

 

[Jacknut]

how exactly does the education content at a DO rads residency differ from that of a MD one? if the quality of MD programs is superior, wouldnt you just rather go to a MD prog? there are some great mich programs other than u mich: william beaumont, henry ford

I would say its pretty comparable. At the DO prgrams though the residents have to be willing to help each other more, compared to an academic MD location. But from my earlier post, radiology is alot of self-motivation and at home studying. Saying that, many of the DO rads programs do rotations at MD institutions like MSU,DMC, beaumont, and Henry Ford main.

I would recommend any DO student interested in Rads to take the USMLE and apply to both DO and MD prgrams consdering their are less that 30 DO rads spots in the nation.

Also I was considering neurology at first, neuro is not very competitive so I skipped out on the USMLE. Once I became interested in Rads it was too late to take step 1 so I limited myself to the very few DO rads programs. Again take both USMLE and COMLEX!

 

[docmd2010]

the POH program is educationallly very good. however, in terms of case diversity it is one of the worst. i was a 3rd year student there, and am now only applying to the MD programs. they don't even have MR in the hospital, some trailer comes there a couple times a week. don't even mention PET/CT. when i was there, they didn't even have PACS and were still printing out films. hahahah

 

[HogFan]

I rotated at both Botsford and Doctors in Columbus. I would have to agree that both seem to be pretty strong.
Botsford has very strong didactics along with the weekly Tuesday MSU lectures. Also, Dr. Saenz (Signs), the program director, is very good since he did a fellowship at UCSF and was on staff there for a couple years. They have diverse pathology and interesting cases at Botsford.
Columbus has its pros and cons. The didactics are lacking compared to the MI programs but are probably better when they go to Ohio State for lectures.
I did not go to POH but the hospital is not is a "nice" area. They were know to be lacking in the past because they did not have PACS, but now they do.

 

[MSURADDOC]

For any of you who are interested in MI DO-RADS Programs:

I am an upper level resident at one of the MI DO programs and I have been involved with the resident selection process at our program for the last 3 years and I thought I'd throw some simple advice your way as I know picking programs is stressful. Much of this is common sense but here goes.

1) Unless your board scores are abyssmal you have a shot. Yes, higher is better but rotating at a program, making a good impression especially with PD and residents and showing you know more than your board scores would suggest can improve your chances. I've also come across many students who have awesome boards but blow their chances based on poor behavior while rotating or even at interviews. Be Professional! Remember the DO pool is much smaller than the MD pool of applicants and many DOs now are getting more MD spots improving your chances even more.

2) Everyone has an opinion about the quality of the programs, and are entitled to their very diverse viewpoints. You need to form your own opinion first hand, and rotate their. Don't base your opinion ONLY on heresay about someone else's experience. They may have only been with a few residents or attendings or had personality conflicts with the staff. This happens not uncommonly and you might not even be aware of it. More important things, especially thinking about career moves, to ask about a place are: Resources (Modalities/Equipment/Diversity of Exams, Procedures and Pathology/Subspecialty Staff/Out-Rotations), Didactics (How often and how much are attendings vs residents presenting)/Autonomy on ER/Call shifts; do you get to read/prelim cases on your own over night or do you have an attending with you all night(there are pluses/minuses to both formats)?, Where do their seniors get fellowships, especially if you have a subspecialty in mind?, Board pass-rate?

3) This is note from personal experience. I have interacted with residents from all the DO programs in MI and also have worked with residents from the MD programs outside the MSU system. The strength of the residents in the programs varies from year to year. One program is not always the best, we get stats comparing us each year and we do talk to each other about this so their is some objectivity here. It is very dependant on the individuals involved each class/program. By senior year most of the residents have comparable knowledge bases and most of the MI residents from all programs get top quality sub-specialty fellowships at major universities. Even compared to university MD programs in MI by 3rd/4th year you are at the same level. Being at a university gives you access to more resources to help your education it doesn't make you inherently a better resident/radiologist. You should find which program fits YOU the best.

Sorry for the long-winded post....

I welcome questions and comments if you have them, good or bad.

Good Luck to all of you!