Advice For Future Applicants

[irish80122]

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I am a junior psychology major who is planning on applying to Clinical and Counseling PhD programs next year. I have the grades and have done the research and have done pretty much all the things that you are supossed to do up to now. The question is where from here? What lessons have you learned, perhaps the hard way, that you would warn future applicants about? Any words of wisdom? I just thought I had better post this before everyone leaves the forum as it seems to be somewhat cyclical. Any advice (other than do well on the GRE's, lol, I know) would be much appreciated! Thank you for your time.

 

[mpino]

get a job in the mental health field to gain clinical experience--this is crucial

 

[joetro]

It's tough to get in going straight through - lots of people I was competing against had significant research experience for a number of years after graduation.

 

[Psyclops]

Keep up the research and push your professors to give you authorship. Most importantly, find out waht your interests are, and make the list of schools you apply to based on faculty members who do reserch in those areas, this should be your only criterion. Clinical experience can help you develop your interests.

 

[irish80122]

I am planning on doing clinical volunteer work this summer, will this suffice? I am also pushing for authorship but we keep getting non-significant results. I am working with two professors however and we are working towards that but I don't think I will get published in time. I know it is hard to go straight through but it is my goal; I really don't want to take time off to do research and then start a 5-7 year program. If that is what it has to be, however, then that is what I will do. Keep the advice coming, I need all the help I can get. Thanks again everyone!

 

[positivepsych]

It's tough to get in going straight through - lots of people I was competing against had significant research experience for a number of years after graduation.

I second that, my academic stats were probably better than most other applicants, but other people had years more research experience that gave them the edge. In retrospect, the process is brutal if you're aiming high. My advice: be really, really sure this is what you want to do, and then apply to a broad range of programs in terms of difficulty.

 

[joetro]

Agreed; I think if I were competing just against other undergrads, I'd be a top applicant, but it's just tough to match up against people who have been out working with famous people. It's an easy way to weed people out.

Remember that this is different than law or med school where the vast majority of people go straight through and test scores/GPA are basically the only factors ... there is a lot more that you need to do well. But getting in is definitely doable. I don't mean to scare you away. Keep up with the research and something good will come through.

Good luck.

 

[Psyclops]

Take those non-significant results and start presenting them as posters at conferences! Go to as many as you can, meet people, shake hands, ask them questions, psych is no different than any other profession contacts matter. But back t the posters, they will do wonders for your CV, actual publications are still exceedingly rare. But posters could arguably be more impressive if you were the first author as opposed to 7th author on a lab publication. Get as many posters as you can!

 

[irish80122]

Thanks again for all the advice, keep it coming. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I do know that this is what I want to do; I want to be a researcher as rare as that is. I will have a shot at two posters next year and I will ask my professors about that but one thing I am worried about is that it may not be in time (the conferences may be after I apply). If this is the case is there a way to put down that you will be doing a poster but it just hasn't happened yet, especially if that poster is accepted. I know that my professor is working hard to get us a poster presentation but I just worry since I am a junior and my time is short.

Another thing I should ask is that since I know I want to be a researcher, I know the school that I go to matters. If I do not get into one of my top choices, but still am lucky enough to get an offer should I consider turning it down, doing research, and reapplying? Is that the way you have to go to get into a top program and is it worth waiting for?

 

[Psyclops]

These are easy. You should put down an accepted poster as Soandso, J. Blah blah investigated. (2007, March) Poster to be presented at the annual meeting of idiots. Or if it hasn't been accepted but has been submitted just say that "Poster submitted to the annual meeting of idiots"

As for the last part only apply to schools that you would be willing to go to. Whatever you criteria may be. But since you plan to pursue an academic position you should only apply to places based on whom you will work with, forget name, place, etc...

 

[irish80122]

I pretty much have to throw out the name of the school because I want to study suicide and those researchers seem to be few and far between and at schools like Toledo (though Florida State would be nice). Ugh, I am just really not looking forward to this process and am nervious about it already. Why can't I just get an acceptance now, lol?

 

[perfektspace]

If this is the case is there a way to put down that you will be doing a poster but it just hasn't happened yet, especially if that poster is accepted. I know that my professor is working hard to get us a poster presentation but I just worry since I am a junior and my time is short.

Another thing I should ask is that since I know I want to be a researcher, I know the school that I go to matters. If I do not get into one of my top choices, but still am lucky enough to get an offer should I consider turning it down, doing research, and reapplying? Is that the way you have to go to get into a top program and is it worth waiting for?

You can cite accepted, under review, under revision presentations/publications on your CV as such. Use whatever format APA recommends.

Getting into a clinical program is hard enough. I wouldn't be too concerned with getting into what are considered "top" schools. Particularly if you are going the super research oriented route straight from UG. To be honest, applying to "top" research oriented clinical programs with little research experience is a waste of your time. To put it in perspective, I have several poster presentations and 1st authorship in a very competitive peer-reviewed journal (aren't I special) and only received one interview. Perhaps that's atypical, but if you really want to go to a top-end program taking a year or two off to thicken your CV is a must.

The reality is that most clinical PhD programs are very good and it will be your interests that determine what school is amazing to you and fits your strength's. Yale isn't necessarily better than Northwestern Montana unless you are well-suited for that program. In the end it doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of difference where that PhD came from.

 

[perfektspace]

I pretty much have to throw out the name of the school because I want to study suicide and those researchers seem to be few and far between and at schools like Toledo (though Florida State would be nice). Ugh, I am just really not looking forward to this process and am nervious about it already. Why can't I just get an acceptance now, lol?

Anyone in particular your interested in working with at Toledo?

By the way, you sound like your ahead of the game already. I think you will do really well. 🙂

 

[irish80122]

I have looked at Hovey at Toledo. The main reason I ask about prestige is not for me but because I want to be a professor and I have heard it is important for that. That is the only reason really. I go to Notre Dame now and what I have learned is that while it is a great school, I don't see it being all THAT much better than a state school; you can get a great education anywhere if you put the effort in. I definately am looking for fit, I just don't know if what I want to do requires me to look at prestige as well?

 

[joetro]

I'm at Notre Dame too, a senior who applied to clinical programs. Please feel free to PM me and we can talk from there.

 

[irish80122]

PM sent. I am almost positive that I found you on facebook however. Are you in Developmental right now? I wouldn't think you would be but you look like someone in my class...it is hard to tell from the pictures, however. Anyways, just let me know in the PM.

 

[psypsypsy]

You seem like you're really well prepared, and really ahead of time. Just in terms of other hints, aside from the research/posters thing.
1. Good GRE scores...study, study study.
2. Terrific letters of recommendation. It sounds like you're already working with professors, which is great. If you need more, start now, and go into someone's office hours and talk with them. Professors loooove to talk about their work, and it's a great way to make an impression.
3. In the fall, try and send emails to people you're interested in working with, and ask if they're taking students. Don't ask a million questions, but just see if you can get the info. I'm in a clinical program now, and it definitely helped me eliminate a school or two because at other schools, a professor was going on sabbatical, and wasn't taking students. I know a couple of friends who got their hopes up about a school only to find out the person was never taking anyone.
4. While reputation of the school is important, Match with research you're interested in, and the professor's reputation is more important.
5. Lastly, be open to what you might like! Look around, and really explore the programs. I have to say, prior to interviewing here, I didn't expect that I would love my program the way I did. I sort of surprised myself by it being my first choice!

 

[Psyclops]

You can cite accepted, under review, under revision presentations/publications on your CV as such. Use whatever format APA recommends.

Getting into a clinical program is hard enough. I wouldn't be too concerned with getting into what are considered "top" schools. Particularly if you are going the super research oriented route straight from UG. To be honest, applying to "top" research oriented clinical programs with little research experience is a waste of your time. To put it in perspective, I have several poster presentations and 1st authorship in a very competitive peer-reviewed journal (aren't I special) and only received one interview. Perhaps that's atypical, but if you really want to go to a top-end program taking a year or two off to thicken your CV is a must.

The reality is that most clinical PhD programs are very good and it will be your interests that determine what school is amazing to you and fits your strength's. Yale isn't necessarily better than Northwestern Montana unless you are well-suited for that program. In the end it doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of difference where that PhD came from.

I wouldn't listen to this post very much (sorry perfekt), it's too pesimistic. Go for it, the only way you are guranteed not to get in to a place is if you don't apply there. Usually if everything is in order GRE, GPA, research experience, a bit of clinical experience, letters, personal statement, and fit, You will get interveiws. Seems like alot but it isn't. But committees are good at sniffing out anything that is disingenous about you. Especially lying about fit.

 

[Psyclops]

It is true though, I would worry less about name of a school than fit.

 

[Psychbird]

Save money; the process of applying is very expensive once you've paid app fees and the cost of interviews.

 

[Psyclops]

Total cost of GRE just to take the test: $270
Total cost to send GRE scores: $258
Application fees: $600
Transcripts (official of course): $150
Postage/stationary: $20

 

[irish80122]

Thanks for all the advice, I appreciate it. If anyone has more I would love to hear it as well. I guess the big question I am left with is is it even worth applying out of undergrad? I think I will regardless (sorry guys but I am just the type that has to go for it) but I am curious to hear your responses on this. Thanks again.

 

[Psyclops]

I think it's worth it if you've got everything in order. I don't know what the percentages are but I bet the majority of students incoming are still coming out of undergrad.

 

[clinpsychgirl]

I think it's worth it if you've got everything in order. I don't know what the percentages are but I bet the majority of students incoming are still coming out of undergrad.

I don't think that's true. While there are certainly students who go straight through (as evidenced by those who post in this forum) I'd say the majority of students in research-oriented Phd programs for clinical psychology have taken time off in between undergraduate and graduate school. From the schools I interviewed at, it seemed like 1 or 2 students (out of a class of 10-15) took a direct route to graduate school.

 

[UMAPsych]

Total cost of GRE just to take the test: $270
Total cost to send GRE scores: $258
Application fees: $600
Transcripts (official of course): $150
Postage/stationary: $20

Interviews (including plane tickets, gas, food, etc., even if you stay with a graduate student): $1,500

Now that the whole process is over with I have a huge credit card bill waiting for me each month. SUCKS. Totally worth it though. 🙂

 

[SaraL124]

I completely disagree with whoever said that most people in Clin Psych programs are coming straight from undergrad. The average age of the 12 students in my first year class is 26. Most people are 2-3 years out of college with significant research experience under their belt. There are a few people who came in with master's degrees (which I don't recommend) and one person who was out of college for 10 years and working in an unrelated field! There is one girl in my class who came straight from undergrad and she said that at her interviews and even now for her practicum interviews, professors were questioning her motivation because of her youth and "inexperience." She had stellar undergrad stats and a publication but still gets questioned because of her age and relative inexperience.

I'm sure that given your stats and experience you will get interviews...just be prepared to defend your position. And don't give up on doing research for a few years before you apply...after all, if you want to be a researcher, it's a good investment in your future.

 

[joetro]

At once place I interviewed at, I was the only one - out of 12 - still in college. At other places, the odds were better. It just depends. I never got questioned about it ... actually I did by one grad student ... but I'm sure it had an effect. That being said, I have offers, so it's quite possible to get in. It just depends on what you want, and I know I wanted to go straight through.

 

[clinpsychgirl]

Joetro, I think it's very impressive that you got straight in!

For those of you that don't get so lucky your first time around, don't lose hope. Take the year to build some invaluable research contacts in the field. I think this could be very adventageous for a future research career.

 

[mmcarson]

I think you should go for it. If you don't try you might regret it and if you don't make it the first time you will learn how you can stregthen your application and will get in the next time. This is assuming that you are willing to spend the time and money. Also, something that nobody has mentioned yet is the personal statement. After you have made it through the first cut with your GRE scores and grades, the committee will look to your CV, LOR and personal statement. For me, writing the statement was the most difficult part of the process, but if you perfect it, the committee will get a sense of your passion for the field. This is your chance to convey your maturity and seriousness about pursuing your interests. Best of luck in whatever you decide.

 

[Psyclops]

Joetro, if i'm reading you correctly, you might want to start doing something with those offers, like rejecting the ones you aren't planning on taking. It's your perogative, you can hold as many as you want, but others would appreciate if you would pass. If i'm nnot reading you correctly and you have passed on them, congrats.

 

[Mell-Dogg]

You seem like you're really well prepared, and really ahead of time. Just in terms of other hints, aside from the research/posters thing.
1. Good GRE scores...study, study study.
2. Terrific letters of recommendation. It sounds like you're already working with professors, which is great. If you need more, start now, and go into someone's office hours and talk with them. Professors loooove to talk about their work, and it's a great way to make an impression.
3. In the fall, try and send emails to people you're interested in working with, and ask if they're taking students. Don't ask a million questions, but just see if you can get the info. I'm in a clinical program now, and it definitely helped me eliminate a school or two because at other schools, a professor was going on sabbatical, and wasn't taking students. I know a couple of friends who got their hopes up about a school only to find out the person was never taking anyone.
4. While reputation of the school is important, Match with research you're interested in, and the professor's reputation is more important.
5. Lastly, be open to what you might like! Look around, and really explore the programs. I have to say, prior to interviewing here, I didn't expect that I would love my program the way I did. I sort of surprised myself by it being my first choice!

All of this is really great advice. Definitely study for the GREs! I raised my verbal score by 240 points (based on a diagnostic test) over the course of a year just by studying TONS of flashcards. Relearn some of those basic formulas (esp. geometry) if you've been out of math courses for any extended period of time.

Regarding school reputation (I'm hoping for an eventual future faculty position as well), I've heard that doing a good research-oriented post-doc can do just as much for your vita and chances of getting a faculty position as would the reputation of the school at which you get your PhD. If you're not in a hurry. Also, I heard that there is some sort of "Acadamy" for clinical psych programs and it looks good if you're coming from a program that is part of this acadamy. (I'm planning to google this info to see if i can find a list somewhere, but haven't tried yet.) Also, a list of Carnegie I research institutions (top tier research universities for graduate programs) can be found at http://www.washington.edu/tools/universities.html.

I also emailed professors prior to applying to programs and saved myself a lot of money not applying to places where my #1 faculty interest was not planning to take new students.

Last word of advice, if you have multiple interests be aware that some programs (I've learned this the hard way) are offended if you indicate interest in 2 different faculty members during your interviews. This is more typical in really strict mentor model programs. Other programs love varied interests, however (even some mentor model pgms), and it's advantageous to have interest in more than one faculty member. You can get a sense of this aspect of the program by talking to current graduate students.

Good luck! It's a tough process, but not impossible!

 

[Mell-Dogg]

A list of programs that are part of "the academy" (mentioned in the above post) can be found at http://psych.arizona.edu/apcs/members.php

 

[ClinPhdHopeful]

Hi... I was just wondering...
If I don't manage to get into the kind of program that I want to enter into through my first round of apps, how do I get the sort of research experience that will boost my applications the second time around?
What can I do right now to make my application be taken more seriously?
(I'm a Junior Psych Major w/ some research experience and a couple of internships under my belt).

Thanks for your help.

 

[clinpsychgirl]

Hi... I was just wondering...
If I don't manage to get into the kind of program that I want to enter into through my first round of apps, how do I get the sort of research experience that will boost my applications the second time around?
What can I do right now to make my application be taken more seriously?
(I'm a Junior Psych Major w/ some research experience and a couple of internships under my belt).

Thanks for your help.

Don't apply to programs you don't want to go to. That would be a waste of time and money.

 

[irish80122]

Don't apply to programs you don't want to go to. That would be a waste of time and money.

I think what hopeful may have been asking (I could be wrong) is more of say that I don't get in the first time... How can I get the research experience neccesary for those same programs to take me more seriously the second time? Thanks!

 

[Psyclops]

You want to apply to psychiatry (or psychology although ther is less oportunity) programs where you can continue to get research experience as a research assitant. This would be a paid position, and hopefully you could get one doing clinically oriented research, you know administering the SCID or taking intake interviews etc. It also wouldn't be a bad idea to get clinical experience working in a psychiatric hospital, but you want to be careful, you don't want to convice PhD programs that you are not interested in research and only practice. Peopl who are only interested in practice are a dime a dozen...

 

[Psyclops]

any reserach is better than no research... but clinically orineted research is a double whammy! Clinical experience also helps you hone your own interests..it can be very inspiring...and later it will help you in your interviews....you can say your interests developed organically as opposed to reacting to some text book.

 

[clinpsychgirl]

I think what hopeful may have been asking (I could be wrong) is more of say that I don't get in the first time... How can I get the research experience neccesary for those same programs to take me more seriously the second time? Thanks!

As mentioned above, full time research experience will help you immeasurably. You will network with other leaders in your given area of interest, learn valuable skills appropriate to the specific labs you want to apply to, and have opportunties to publish/present your work.

I'd say the "standard" applicant that will successfully make it to the interview phase has around two years full time research experience post BA/BS (in addition to a a high GPA, solid LORs, a thoughtful personal statment, etc...). There are of course, exceptions, but I think this is a pretty good respresentation of what a competive member of the applicant pool looks like. Good luck!