Advice for New Grads

[Sparda29]

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Do not eat out more than once a week. Take if from someone who learned the lesson very late.

#1 - It's healthier to cook your own food.
#2 - You will save a lot more money. (All of a sudden, I'm finding $1000-2000 left over in my account the day before payday instead of having almost nothing.)

PS: I can cook a better steak than Peter Luger or Delmonico's, And a better burger than any chain. Ingredients and technique matter.

 

[RxPreceptor]

I'll throw in my 2 cents....
1) pork tenderloin > chicken....comparable macros, but pork tenderloin is waaay more forgiving to not overcook (I just throw it in the over roughly 30 mins...much harder to dry out vs. chicken). Plus good variety (often pre-seasoned in various flavors....doesn't get boring overtime like chicken). Beef hearts = super cheap, tastes just as good as steak!

2) buy in season produce/resort to frozen bulk options (nothing wrong with frozen...often very cheap and good quality...just don't get frozen food with additives/garbage thrown in for no apparent reason)

 

[awval999]

ThermoPen

Thermapen® ONE

Experience rapid, precise temperature readings with ThermoWorks’ best-selling Thermapen ONE. Essential for every cook, it’s your key to culinary mastery.

www.thermoworks.com

Well worth the investment. The $10 thermometers don't work.
Thing pays for itself once you're able to cook perfect temperature meats.
Meat very quickly goes from "juicy" to "dry".

 

[ranger99rx]

All of these preparations for 5 seconds of enjoyment on your tongue before it ends up in to stomach which doesn’t care what you ate!

 

[Marzapan]

Do not eat out more than once a week. Take if from someone who learned the lesson very late.

#1 - It's healthier to cook your own food.
#2 - You will save a lot more money. (All of a sudden, I'm finding $1000-2000 left over in my account the day before payday instead of having almost nothing.)

PS: I can cook a better steak than Peter Luger or Delmonico's, And a better burger than any chain. Ingredients and technique matter.

I'm calling BS on the savings calculations. From what I can find, the average American household spends anywhere from $250/month (single adult) to $1100/month (family of 4) on food including groceries and eating out. To have an extra $1000-2000 per paycheck means you're saving $71-143/day in food by not eating out, so unless you've been eating fancy steak dinners like a boss every day, there is no way you can achieve this. $100-200 per paycheck, maybe. $1000-2000 per paycheck, nah.

 

[rxkrafted]

I'm calling BS on the savings calculations. From what I can find, the average American household spends anywhere from $250/month (single adult) to $1100/month (family of 4) on food including groceries and eating out. To have an extra $1000-2000 per paycheck means you're saving $71-143/day in food by not eating out, so unless you've been eating fancy steak dinners like a boss every day, there is no way you can achieve this. $100-200 per paycheck, maybe. $1000-2000 per paycheck, nah.

Yeah, i was thinking the same thing. He must have been eating at fine dining restaurants a lot or eating out more than 3x/day.

 

[ranger99rx]

I'm calling BS on the savings calculations. From what I can find, the average American household spends anywhere from $250/month (single adult) to $1100/month (family of 4) on food including groceries and eating out. To have an extra $1000-2000 per paycheck means you're saving $71-143/day in food by not eating out, so unless you've been eating fancy steak dinners like a boss every day, there is no way you can achieve this. $100-200 per paycheck, maybe. $1000-2000 per paycheck, nah.

Well, you are right that you don’t save $1000-2000 per month on food by cooking at home. You now have to spend time to shop, find recipes, and time spend cooking. You have less time to spend money on junk or service you don’t need and start cutting them out to save money, you will end up with plenty of extra in your pocket. A $30-40 steak dinner including tax and tips maybe only cost $15 at home, unless your meal is $4 for 4 and Wendy’s then it’s cheaper to eat out!

 

[rxkrafted]

He lives in NYC

that's still not a good enough reason to be spending $1000-$2000 before paychecks from eating out. He must have a very expensive palate.

 

[confettiflyer]

The pandemic saved us so money. We started cooking at home a ton vs grabbing happy hour, diner with friends, date night out became date night cooking in.

When we did eat out we used uber eats, Doordarshan, etc when they had promos (bogo chipotle, $10 off 20 pick up order, etc)

Same. This sounds like a lot, but the total impact is on the order of $30,000 this year.

Skewed because we had a lot of big trips planned (3 x 1 week Southern California, 1 x 1 week Hawaii, 1 x 2 weeks Korea) this year.

But a huge impact was on eating out. My credit card bill is like, two pages these days (used to be 5-6) and it’s all DoorDash, Amazon, grocery store, and Target.

This was a really uneven recession/period of time. A lot of my friends lost a lot (business-wise, etc...)

 

[Gombrich12]

The best piece of advice I can give for new grads is look to be advancing and making connections inside and outside of pharmacy. You cannot count on working in pharmacy for 40 years anymore. I wouldn't be shocked to find out in 20 years that pharmacist employment was down 25% from today.

 

[pezdispenser]

So what are you guys spending on these days from all the money saved by not eating out or going on vacations?

I built myself a gaming PC for around $1000 with a Ryzen 7 3700X ($269) and Radeon RX 5700 XT ($360).

 

[confettiflyer]

So what are you guys spending on these days from all the money saved by not eating out or going on vacations?

I built myself a gaming PC for around $1000 with a Ryzen 7 3700X ($269) and Radeon RX 5700 XT ($360).

I built out my analog media conversion work station for my years-long project converting photos, negatives, slides, and analog tape (VHS, 8mm, VHS-C) to digital.

Didn’t cost much, I spent like $100 on a new SSD to swap into a 2007 MacBook Pro, found a VCR at an estate sale, and spent maybe $150 on a new flatbed scanner + $50 for better scanning software.

Total outlay ~$300?

Now I want to build a true gaming rig for MS Flight Simulator. Also a true audiophile rig is in the works (DAC, NAS for the lossless files, etc...)

 

[Marzapan]

He lives in NYC

Weak argument. A 30-50% COL adjustment for food makes sense, but not a 400-800% increase. Unless you're literally living in Alaska, there is no way your food expenses costs $2000-4000/month because a McChicken is not $8 in NYC, nor is a gallon of milk.

 

[JustFillIt]

Apparently I am the only one who has noticed the inflation in grocery prices? Financially - it’s a wash eating out vs eating in (as long as you don’t go overboard and order the whole
Menu). I could spend just as much going to a mid level carry out restaurant as I could buying my own groceries anymore.

However - the health argument is legit

 

[pezdispenser]

Now I want to build a true gaming rig for MS Flight Simulator. Also a true audiophile rig is in the works (DAC, NAS for the lossless files, etc...)

Yeah I built this new PC for MS Flight Sim because my old GeForce GTX 1060 wasn't cutting it at 1440p. The Radeon RX 5700 XT runs it fine, and you probably don't even need that much.

 

[Marzapan]

Apparently I am the only one who has noticed the inflation in grocery prices? Financially - it’s a wash eating out vs eating in (as long as you don’t go overboard and order the whole
Menu). I could spend just as much going to a mid level carry out restaurant as I could buying my own groceries anymore.

However - the health argument is legit

I noticed this too. Meats have gotten much more expensive, as has pretty much every "home living" item at places like Target and Walmart. $7 for a bottle of shampoo? $15 for a 6-pack of toilet paper? $15 for laundry detergent? Give me a break.

 

[footfairy]

Apparently I am the only one who has noticed the inflation in grocery prices? Financially - it’s a wash eating out vs eating in (as long as you don’t go overboard and order the whole
Menu). I could spend just as much going to a mid level carry out restaurant as I could buying my own groceries anymore.

However - the health argument is legit

Base prices do seem higher on a lot of beef products. Most steak cuts are $2/lb more and ground beef has been up ~$1/lb. But, its still easy to eat well for amazingly cheap, my regional grocery chain still has rediculous sale prices, I picked up some (not prime grade) beef tenderloin for $6/lb a pound and cut it down into 2 inch filets. Made that with some $2/lb asparagus, some roasted potatoes and a couple bottles of Merry Monks for a ~$15 gourmet meal that would have been at least $60 at a restaurant.

Time commitment wise that meal was maybe 40 minutes total 20 minutes active which is probably break even with picking up takeout. But I definitely make some things that are an obnoxious time and labor commitment.

I agree that it is hard to match the calorie to dollar value of fast food and pizza though.

 

[mentos]

We've spent a ton on home improvements/repairs. New patio, yard, trees, painting, some plumbing and electrical work, couple of doors. Took care of some mold and pest control. I hate owning a home haha.

 

[owlegrad]

We've spent a ton on home improvements/repairs. New patio, yard, trees, painting, some plumbing and electrical work, couple of doors. Took care of some mold and pest control. I hate owning a home haha.

It truly does feel never ending sometimes.

 

[owlegrad]

Apparently I am the only one who has noticed the inflation in grocery prices? Financially - it’s a wash eating out vs eating in (as long as you don’t go overboard and order the whole
Menu). I could spend just as much going to a mid level carry out restaurant as I could buying my own groceries anymore.

However - the health argument is legit

I shop at Aldi's and it would be stretching to say that I can eat out at a mid level carry out restaurant for the same cost. It's like >$10 for burger and fries at Five Guys. I can easily buy a pack of hamburger and potatoes and get more than one serving for that amount of money. Maybe if I shopped at Whole Foods or some place like that the economics would be different.

I will say for the time/aggravation involved in shopping and preparing my own food it's not a bad trade off (health benefits aside) but hardly an economic choice. I would have to order off the dollar menu to get that kind of value.

 

[owlegrad]

PS: I can cook a better steak than Peter Luger or Delmonico's, And a better burger than any chain. Ingredients and technique matter.

If you can back up these claims you can make more as a chef owner than you can as a pharmacist.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Ok. OP has tendency to be a little extreme, ie expensive car, speeds a lot, no 401k savings .... so perhaps he just lives it up and never eats at home.

Yeah didn't sparda also say he was spending like a grand a month on hookah bars? If anyone could find a way to spend that much on food, I'd bet it's him.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Well, regardless, I think @Sparda29 deserves a pat on the back for trying to be healthier

 

[wazoodog]

The data I saw presented from ANNEXA-4 wasn't compelling, but I guess I need to revisit the topic.

Weak argument. A 30-50% COL adjustment for food makes sense, but not a 400-800% increase. Unless you're literally living in Alaska, there is no way your food expenses costs $2000-4000/month because a McChicken is not $8 in NYC, nor is a gallon of milk.

I live around Manhattan and it's not hard to believe savings of 1000-2000 per month from cutting out eating out, happy hours, etc. Yes, McChickens are cheap but even ramen or pho with tax and tip can easily turn into a 20 dollar lunch...assuming no pork bun or summer roll appetizer. Theres also additional odd expenses that are peripherally related to going out to eat.

 

[rxkrafted]

I live around Manhattan and it's not hard to believe savings of 1000-2000 per month from cutting out eating out, happy hours, etc. Yes, McChickens are cheap but even ramen or pho with tax and tip can easily turn into a 20 dollar lunch...assuming no pork bun or summer roll appetizer. Theres also additional odd expenses that are peripherally related to going out to eat.

i'm sure he meant per month but he mentioned "day before payday" so that's about 2000-4000 per month.

 

[footfairy]

Cutting out takeout lunch is a big one though. It's really difficult to keep lunch cheap between tax/tip/delivery fees. Even the $6.95 special from the local pizza place ends up being 11 or 12 bucks when it's all accounted for which compounds to about 2 or 3 grand a year just on lunch takeout. I think people should still order out occasionally though, no reason not to enjoy yourself a bit, otherwise why bother living.

 

[wazoodog]

My wife and I have both lived in Manhattan and she still works there. Cooking at home and eating in regularly is very possible and plenty do it, but it's also extremely easy to fall into the trap of bleeding money for food and drink expenses - probably more so for young adults, and even more so for transplants.

It's not so much that your everyday pizza or McDonald's and Popeye's are marked up, or that frequent fine dining is the culprit - it's the prevalence of mid-tier eateries and pricier fast casual joints that are overwhelmingly popular. The $5 coffees, $15-25 lunches, $25-30 dinners, and happy hours that add up quickly. The juice bars, desserts, bagels, pastries, random snacks here and there available as grab-and-go throughout every block.

It's also the highly social environment where it's pretty common to meet friends almost every day after work, go to happy hour with coworkers at least a couple times a month, go on several dates a week (often with a different person). You don't have to live that way, but it ends up being the normal lifestyle for working young professionals.

So yeah, if someone says they're spending 4000/month on "going or eating out" expenses in NYC - I wouldn't doubt it but would say that living the lifestyle of a NYC finance bro isn't sustainable for a newly graduated pharmacist (even if your circle of friends are finance bros). Cheap eats and frugal choices of living exist even in NYC, but prioritizing that kind of lifestyle might take some extra willpower for a pharmacist who's made the decision to live in (or near) such a cosmopolitan city. My advice would be to get real with your priorities and ask yourself honestly what you value at the moment, and what kind of situation you want to be 15 years from now...and find a way to make the two meet. That doesn't just extend to financial and career goals. You'll never be able to get those 15 years worth of decisions back in terms of health, wealth, and career.

 

[confettiflyer]

If you can back up these claims you can make more as a chef owner than you can as a pharmacist.

Lol it doesn’t matter if his food gives women earthquake-level orgasms, the margins are so poor in restaurants, it’s just not worth the headache!

 

[confettiflyer]

Wow thats insane. Yes we had sever trips planned all canceled. Not sure of total budget impact because..... I'll admit it, we don't budget. But I'll look at my cards and have like 2 charges in a week. Its wild.

Okay I calculated it, over the 6 month period we saved about $20,000 in travel related costs.

We calculated meals out to be every Saturday $150 for dinner out and every other Sunday also $150. Weekends out alone came to $5400 not spent.

That doesn’t even count the random haphazard weekday meals out (but many of those were converted to take out).

 

[Marzapan]

My wife and I have both lived in Manhattan and she still works there. Cooking at home and eating in regularly is very possible and plenty do it, but it's also extremely easy to fall into the trap of bleeding money for food and drink expenses - probably more so for young adults, and even more so for transplants.

It's not so much that your everyday pizza or McDonald's and Popeye's are marked up, or that frequent fine dining is the culprit - it's the prevalence of mid-tier eateries and pricier fast casual joints that are overwhelmingly popular. The $5 coffees, $15-25 lunches, $25-30 dinners, and happy hours that add up quickly. The juice bars, desserts, bagels, pastries, random snacks here and there available as grab-and-go throughout every block.

It's also the highly social environment where it's pretty common to meet friends almost every day after work, go to happy hour with coworkers at least a couple times a month, go on several dates a week (often with a different person). You don't have to live that way, but it ends up being the normal lifestyle for working young professionals.

So yeah, if someone says they're spending 4000/month on "going or eating out" expenses in NYC - I wouldn't doubt it but would say that living the lifestyle of a NYC finance bro isn't sustainable for a newly graduated pharmacist (even if your circle of friends are finance bros). Cheap eats and frugal choices of living exist even in NYC, but prioritizing that kind of lifestyle might take some extra willpower for a pharmacist who's made the decision to live in (or near) such a cosmopolitan city. My advice would be to get real with your priorities and ask yourself honestly what you value at the moment, and what kind of situation you want to be 15 years from now...and find a way to make the two meet. That doesn't just extend to financial and career goals. You'll never be able to get those 15 years worth of decisions back in terms of health, wealth, and career.

Just nitpicking, but it's not that he said he spends $2000-4000 a month on food, it's that he said he can save $2000-4000 a month so your baseline is not $0 because no matter what, you need to spend money to eat. So what he is suggesting is something like a reduction from $2500-4500 a month to $500/month for food, which is even more than what's been calculated. A daily dose of $5 coffee, $10 breakfast, $25 lunch and $30 dinner would still come out to $2100/month and that's at the high end of things so I still fail to see how you'd get to $4000-4500. Feeding a family of 4 the same way and adding 20% to each bill by using uber eats is the only thing I can think of to get you to that range of spending.

 

[mentos]

Yeah $2000/mo adds up quick in a big city. A glass of wine is like $15+tax+tip.

 

[rxkrafted]

I remember him saying he had a credit score of like 500something last year so he probably wasn't financially savvy at some point in time. Glad to see he's been saving money now.

 

[confettiflyer]

I remember him saying he had a credit score of like 500something last year so he probably wasn't financially savvy at some point in time. Glad to see he's been saving money now.

And I don’t knock that, some lessons just have to be learned the hard way. The hope is any damage isn’t permanent/lasting.

My monthly spend on restaurants used to be in the $2000s per month living in a big city as DINK, pre-COVID it went down to $1000/mo in a concerted effort to eat healthier and save money (that’s once a week Saturday + every other Sunday x $150/meal total. Some meals were skipped, others were $750, just depends)

After finding new priorities for money, and getting better at cooking, restaurants really become rare. We only eat out at places where the food prep is not feasible at home.

 

[wazoodog]

Just nitpicking, but it's not that he said he spends $2000-4000 a month on food, it's that he said he can save $2000-4000 a month so your baseline is not $0 because no matter what, you need to spend money to eat. So what he is suggesting is something like a reduction from $2500-4500 a month to $500/month for food, which is even more than what's been calculated. A daily dose of $5 coffee, $10 breakfast, $25 lunch and $30 dinner would still come out to $2100/month and that's at the high end of things so I still fail to see how you'd get to $4000-4500. Feeding a family of 4 the same way and adding 20% to each bill by using uber eats is the only thing I can think of to get you to that range of spending.

Not to nitpick back, but now I'm actually curious to look at some numbers.

Hypothetical Pre-pandemic lifestyle of young adult in NYC not saving as much:
Weekdays (Daily)
$5 : Coffee + Breakfast sandwich/Bagel/Pastry/Fruit
$20: Lunch (average)
$30: Dinner (average)
$30: Drinks / Happy Hour (average)
_________
Weekly Weekday Total : 85 x 5 = $425

Weekends (Daily)
$25 : Brunch / Lunch (assuming breakfast is skipped from drinking the night before and sleeping in)
$15-40 : Transit to get to and from dinner / home (Public Transit, Drunk Uber back home, tolls and parking if driving in from outside Manhattan, etc)
$60-120 : Dinner Sat & Sun
$100-200 : Miscellaneous Post-Dinner stuff where food/drink minimums are included to some extent (Comedy Club, Shows, Gentleman's Club (?), Jazz Bar, Dance Club, other social club events, etc)
$100 : Drinks at bars pregame, before or after dinner, or while waiting to go to post-dinner event, or nightcap afterwards
__________
Weekly Weekend Total: (300 to 485) x 2 = $600 to 970

Monthly Average = $4100 to 5580
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hypothetical Post-pandemic lifestyle staying home more:

Weekdays (Daily)
$3 : Coffee from Nespresso or brewing own would be even less
$8 : Lunch from groceries
$10 : Dinner from groceries
$23 : Bottle of wine
__________
Weekly Weekday Total : 44 x 5 = $220 (groceries)

Weekends (Daily)
Same as weekdays
__________
Weekly Weekend Total: 44 x 2 = $88

Monthly Average = $1232

__________________________________________________________
How much has been saved from not going out to eat / drink in NYC? $2868 to $4348

Of course there's a lot of room for variation depending on the individual, but this is estimated mostly on my own (younger) experience and what I've seen in a similar demographic in NYC. Obviously some people don't drink or some people do more dollar pizzas and halal platters than others, but some people also spend considerably more depending on their habits - some might be willing to drive around for 30 mins looking for free street parking, and someone else who took public transit in from Brooklyn or Queens might end up with a $50 drunk Uber ride back. I don't know if Sparda would find this estimation close to his/her younger life expenses, but I would venture to say yes if they've enjoyed Peter Luger and Delmonico steaks enough to know his/her own tastes better. I can relate to the amount of savings even with a non-zero baseline - a night out to Peter Luger's is easily 160+ when you factor in having a drink while waiting for your table (even with a reservation), appetizer, sides, steak, wine, plus a decent single malt scotch to finish. I've groaned inside when at certain steakhouses, a friend goes and and orders the seafood tower to start off. And frankly, groceries in Manhattan end up costing more and the people frequent places like Whole Foods instead of ShopRite...so even estimating a monthly grocery bill of $2000 still leaves you with considerable savings from not going out to eat/drink in Manhattan (and going for a run in Central Park instead).

So to new grads - enjoy life but realize there's a LOT of life left after your 20s and 30s. Don't go overboard in giving up life's joys thinking you'll postpone travel and eat good food in later years because your 60 year old body most likely won't be able to travel or eat like your 27 year old body. At the same time, your 60 year old self will need some security (in health and wealth) in place and building that security starts NOW - really, not 5 years from now...but now.

 

[owlegrad]

Lol it doesn’t matter if his food gives women earthquake-level orgasms, the margins are so poor in restaurants, it’s just not worth the headache!

I think there is probably decent margin on a $100 steak. We aren’t talking about fast food or even mid-tier here, we are talking about the absolute most expensive steaks on the market.

 

[APN-59 rph]

The best piece of advice I can give for new grads is look to be advancing and making connections inside and outside of pharmacy. You cannot count on working in pharmacy for 40 years anymore. I wouldn't be shocked to find out in 20 years that pharmacist employment was down 25% from today.

Yeah..I agree...start asking around.....A lot of outfits in the trades will pay to train you....so will trucking companies...(I personally hate driving) AND Do Not..not dump luchre on fancy new wheels esp. oversized pick-em-ups..

 

[Marzapan]

Not to nitpick back, but now I'm actually curious to look at some numbers.

Hypothetical Pre-pandemic lifestyle of young adult in NYC not saving as much:
Weekdays (Daily)
$5 : Coffee + Breakfast sandwich/Bagel/Pastry/Fruit
$20: Lunch (average)
$30: Dinner (average)
$30: Drinks / Happy Hour (average)
_________
Weekly Weekday Total : 85 x 5 = $425

Weekends (Daily)
$25 : Brunch / Lunch (assuming breakfast is skipped from drinking the night before and sleeping in)
$15-40 : Transit to get to and from dinner / home (Public Transit, Drunk Uber back home, tolls and parking if driving in from outside Manhattan, etc)
$60-120 : Dinner Sat & Sun
$100-200 : Miscellaneous Post-Dinner stuff where food/drink minimums are included to some extent (Comedy Club, Shows, Gentleman's Club (?), Jazz Bar, Dance Club, other social club events, etc)
$100 : Drinks at bars pregame, before or after dinner, or while waiting to go to post-dinner event, or nightcap afterwards
__________
Weekly Weekend Total: (300 to 485) x 2 = $600 to 970

Monthly Average = $4100 to 5580
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hypothetical Post-pandemic lifestyle staying home more:

Weekdays (Daily)
$3 : Coffee from Nespresso or brewing own would be even less
$8 : Lunch from groceries
$10 : Dinner from groceries
$23 : Bottle of wine
__________
Weekly Weekday Total : 44 x 5 = $220 (groceries)

Weekends (Daily)
Same as weekdays
__________
Weekly Weekend Total: 44 x 2 = $88

Monthly Average = $1232

__________________________________________________________
How much has been saved from not going out to eat / drink in NYC? $2868 to $4348

Of course there's a lot of room for variation depending on the individual, but this is estimated mostly on my own (younger) experience and what I've seen in a similar demographic in NYC. Obviously some people don't drink or some people do more dollar pizzas and halal platters than others, but some people also spend considerably more depending on their habits - some might be willing to drive around for 30 mins looking for free street parking, and someone else who took public transit in from Brooklyn or Queens might end up with a $50 drunk Uber ride back. I don't know if Sparda would find this estimation close to his/her younger life expenses, but I would venture to say yes if they've enjoyed Peter Luger and Delmonico steaks enough to know his/her own tastes better. I can relate to the amount of savings even with a non-zero baseline - a night out to Peter Luger's is easily 160+ when you factor in having a drink while waiting for your table (even with a reservation), appetizer, sides, steak, wine, plus a decent single malt scotch to finish.. And frankly, groceries in Manhattan do cost end up costing more and the people frequent places like Whole Foods instead of ShopRite...so even estimating a monthly grocery bill of $2000 still leaves you with considerable savings from not going out to eat/drink in Manhattan (and going to the park instead).

Appreciate you taking the time to crunch the numbers. To make this relevant to SDN, I'm curious how the average NYC pharmacist can spend that much though. I can see an average of 1-2 happy hours per week but not literally every day. I also don't see a $20 lunch every day happening, especially if you work retail where a 30 min lunch break isn't even long enough for you to go grab takeout so you're wolfing down 50 cent granola bars instead. Transportation costs are also probably overestimated because you'll have a monthly subway/bus pass to get around for other things anyways so it shouldn't be counted in the food budget (besides the drunk uber rides). Now, if you have a much more flexible job such as pharma or consulting, then I can see the spending go way up. Have the option to take 2 hour lunches in the middle the day? Guarantee you you're not going to Mcdonalds.

 

[wazoodog]

Appreciate you taking the time to crunch the numbers. To make this relevant to SDN, I'm curious how the average NYC pharmacist can spend that much though. I can see an average of 1-2 happy hours per week but not literally every day. I also don't see a $20 lunch every day happening, especially if you work retail where a 30 min lunch break isn't even long enough for you to go grab takeout so you're wolfing down 50 cent granola bars instead. Transportation costs are also probably overestimated because you'll have a monthly subway/bus pass to get around for other things anyways so it shouldn't be counted in the food budget (besides the drunk uber rides). Now, if you have a much more flexible job such as pharma or consulting, then I can see the spending go way up. Have the option to take 2 hour lunches in the middle the day? Guarantee you you're not going to Mcdonalds.

A very good question. I honestly haven't seen many pharmacists living in Manhattan for more than a few years. I think many that work in Manhattan actually live outside in one of the outer boroughs or New Jersey - it's much more affordable that way. The few that I do see staying in Manhattan for a bit longer are usually in pharma (i.e. Pfizer and some other smaller startups are in Manhattan). Of course, if they're working in a non-traditional job with no kids and years of pay raises...it's reasonable to keep living in Manhattan but I think most eventually figure out that for long term sustainability, some lifestyle changes have to be made (unless you work in finance or something).

Somewhat embarrassingly, I averaged 4-5 happy hours a week up to my early 30s. My wife averaged only a handful a month. I probably averaged 10-12 a day for lunch, but my wife and her female coworkers seem to average 20+. Go figure. She's not a pharmacist, and I also didn't work in retail pharmacy during my time in NYC.

A fair point about monthly transportation. If you live or work in the city, then yes you'll probably have a monthly MTA pass. If you live in NJ, or even if you live in one of the outer boroughs...often times you'd rather not deal with irregular public transit schedules and just opt to drive in (especially on weekends). Trains and buses tend to come less frequently on the hour during off-peak. In the evening, it can be annoying. So many drive in. To be fair though, if that's the case you may not be spending as much on weekly lunches and dinners so it balances out.

 

[deleted562805]

And I don’t knock that, some lessons just have to be learned the hard way. The hope is any damage isn’t permanent/lasting.

My monthly spend on restaurants used to be in the $2000s per month living in a big city as DINK, pre-COVID it went down to $1000/mo in a concerted effort to eat healthier and save money (that’s once a week Saturday + every other Sunday x $150/meal total. Some meals were skipped, others were $750, just depends)

After finding new priorities for money, and getting better at cooking, restaurants really become rare. We only eat out at places where the food prep is not feasible at home.

I heard sometimes going vegan for a month or two is cheaper.

 

[Old Timer]

Advice to new grads:

Find a different career

 

[confettiflyer]

I think there is probably decent margin on a $100 steak. We aren’t talking about fast food or even mid-tier here, we are talking about the absolute most expensive steaks on the market.

But a restaurant like that demands upmarket location/rent, a sommelier, etc... labor costs are just through the roof.

The real margins are in alcohol, even a $350 Tomahawk only nets you so much in margin.

Speaking of steaks, I’ve only ever paid $150 for a steak (for 3oz of A5 Wagyu, or $50/oz). It’s $106/lb at Costco ($6.625/oz). Great margins on product itself, but factor in labor and it’s just bad times. A lot of distributors won’t even ship that premium product to you unless you’re a proven upmarket establishment.

(there’s a reason why my five friends who come from restaurant owning families are not taking over the family business - it’s rough!)

 

[confettiflyer]

I heard sometimes going vegan for a month or two is cheaper.

Meat is pretty cheap in the U.S...unless you grow your own vegetables. At least as long as you’re not buying prime ribeye steaks or anything.

I tried cutting back on meat, I end up spending the same money on higher quality veggies and protein sources (especially meat substitutes).

Plus I like bacon.

 

[owlegrad]

Speaking of steaks, I’ve only ever paid $150 for a steak (for 3oz of A5 Wagyu, or $50/oz). It’s $106/lb at Costco ($6.625/oz).

So there is just no way I could ever trust that I was actually getting the real deal. I have read too many articles about restaurants advertising Kobe when it isn't. Besides of course any beef being worth that kind of money being pretty suspect.

 

[mentos]

So there is just no way I could ever trust that I was actually getting the real deal. I have read too many articles about restaurants advertising Kobe when it isn't. Besides of course any beef being worth that kind of money being pretty suspect.

Huh, I was wondering why the Kobe beef at the buffet I went to in Vegas tasted like any other beef. It was probably Angus or something.

 

[APN-59 rph]

Your food selection is completely opposite from me. I would rather spend on High quality grass fed buffalo, lamb, and wild caught salmon, grow my own veggies, and eat cheap yet organic chickpeas, beans, and tofu.

I don’t see any advantage or benefit to eating pork compared to buffalo, salmon, or lamb. Pigs are dirty animals and are scavengers by nature. They eat insects, worms and their own feces.

Whale meat and flank of harp seal is tasty...

 

[Marzapan]

Huh, I was wondering why the Kobe beef at the buffet I went to in Vegas tasted like any other beef. It was probably Angus or something.

From what I understand, it's all in where the beef originates from. The real stuff is imported from Japan. If you eat "American Kobe," the cattle aren't raised the same way so it's just a cheap knockoff.

 

[wazoodog]

Huh, I was wondering why the Kobe beef at the buffet I went to in Vegas tasted like any other beef. It was probably Angus or something.

When you see Kobe beef in the US, it almost always refers to Kobe style American beef. It doesn't come close to the marbling of Japanese Miyazaki Wagyu beef which melts in the mouth. Price difference between American Kobe and Japanese Wagyu can also be 40/lb vs 120/lb.

However, I think a dry-aged prime ribeye or porterhouse done perfectly medium-rare from a good NY steakhouse can be just as enjoyable. They're also more likely to get first pick at the best cuts from domestic meat purveyors. I've been to the Vegas outpost of Del Frisco's and found that they have a tendency to overcook their steaks compared to the Manhattan one.

 

[lord999]

My personal advice:
1. The three worthwhile investments are to get a good knife and a good sauce pan and frying pan. Others may follow, but I think those three are fundamental. Cooking school equipment is just fine (Even though I have better knives, I still routinely use a 20 year old Mercer Millennia set that I got for the culinary electives at University as it's very high quality for what I do and the chef's knife is around $20 today).

2. Unless you're obsessed with a specific ingredient (rice for us), getting versatility out of your appliances is better than having one-use (exceptions for food you eat all the time like rice or bread where it may be worthwhile). Modern pressure cookers make many recipes idiot-proof. They also are inexpensive nowadays.

3. Eat out what you cannot realistically cook. Things made at quantities like soups, duck, or large barbeque might very well always be better than you can cook due to economies of scale. Extremely complicated or subtle food like Regional Italian (Sicilian and Lazio/Roman), Polish rustic, or Xi'an cuisine are examples where the production is complicated enough that casual cooking isn't really an option.

(If you think you can make outstanding Italian cuisine without major practice, I suggest you go to a decent Italian restaurant to disabuse you of that. In the Philadelphia/NJ area, Zeppoli near Camden and Aldo Lamberti's is a lesson in humility with the same ingredients).

4. If your area supports a Whole Foods (Paycheck), there's definitely better organic stores in your area. If you are in the Pac 12 (except Utah), you have an embarrassment of riches in terms of enviable quality produce to choose from.

5. If you're saving a lot of money vs restaurants at our level, you can probably afford better ingredients which will make a big difference, especially with good produce. Exceptions are Aldi Sud (Aldi) or Nord (Trader Joe's) or Lidl when they show up as they sell reasonable quality for reasonable prices. German basic groceries are a godsend overseas.

6. If you want to get good at technical cooking, French/Belgian, Indian, Thai, and Italian tend to force you to be multitalented in technique where other cuisines are more forgiving. But unless your technique is exceptional, good ingredients that the US has almost always can make up for bad technique to be at least edible.

When you see Kobe beef in the US, it almost always refers to Kobe style American beef. It doesn't come close to the marbling of Japanese Miyazaki Wagyu beef which melts in the mouth. Price difference between American Kobe and Japanese Wagyu can also be 40/lb vs 120/lb.

However, I think a dry-aged prime ribeye or porterhouse done perfectly medium-rare from a good NY steakhouse can be just as enjoyable. They're also more likely to get first pick at the best cuts from domestic meat purveyors. I've been to the Vegas outpost of Del Frisco's and found that they have a tendency to overcook their steaks compared to the Manhattan one.

Absolutely, though I have a taste for Texan beef which is the opposite of marbled. I completely agree with your assessment on overcooked meat in Vegas. WagyuSA beef from the US though is nowhere as finely marbled as the genuine article Wagyu. Then again, there are times the melt in your mouth feeling is exquisite.

I find that when you're in Vegas, most of the chefs have international tastes in mind, so overcooked beef, stewed vegetables, al dente pasta (most Americans seem to prefer their pasta well-done). The one thing about Vegas that is decent is that their Italian baseline is far better though definitely not on Chicago, New York, or New Jersey competency.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Do not eat out more than once a week. Take if from someone who learned the lesson very late.

#1 - It's healthier to cook your own food.
#2 - You will save a lot more money. (All of a sudden, I'm finding $1000-2000 left over in my account the day before payday instead of having almost nothing.)

PS: I can cook a better steak than Peter Luger or Delmonico's, And a better burger than any chain. Ingredients and technique matter.

Is Sparda finally growing up?

 

[confettiflyer]

So there is just no way I could ever trust that I was actually getting the real deal. I have read too many articles about restaurants advertising Kobe when it isn't. Besides of course any beef being worth that kind of money being pretty suspect.

The restaurant we go/went to provided the certificate of authenticity (in Japanese) and the nose print of the cow slaughtered...lol. I routinely ate at the table in the kitchen (didn’t want to sit in the boring dining room) and A5 is practically bone white. Plus, I first had Kobe/Wagyu in Kobe from a reputable location, so I can compare it.

Put it this way...if you can physically handle more than 3-5oz of actual A5 Wagyu, then it probably isn’t real because it’s pretty much like eating a stick of butter. I’m actually slightly physically ill after the first 3oz portion. For that reason, I don’t usually get it, I prefer an Australian Tajima F1 which is a 50% Wagyu/50% Holstein cross breed.

There is good American Wagyu (I buy from Snake River Farms for home use), so yes, mid-tier restaurants will advertise “Kobe beef” when it’s just high grade American beef. There’s no restriction on that term, like saying “wheat bread” vs “100% whole wheat bread” which has the legal connotation associated with it.