Advice for Potential Third Time Applicant

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osherbi1

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Hi everybody,

I've been following SDN for a while and recently became a member. For those of you who can spare a few minutes, here's the deal.

I graduated in 2011 from a decent state school with a B.S. in Biology and am in the middle of my second application cycle (first one was back in 2011 - didn't get any II's). My stats are as follows..

cGPA - 3.60
sGPA - 3.44
MCAT - 31R

During my first attempt, my school list was pretty bad (applied to A LOT of state schools that had very low OOS acceptance rates). I also applied with no research or non-clinical volunteer experience whatsoever, my LORs were average at best, and I did not put a lot of work into my PS or secondaries. AND I submitted late - I know, I know..

I decided to work on my shortcomings and have gained a significant amount of research experience (currently doing animal microsurgery for stroke studies as a full-time research assistant at Hopkins), have become involved in a great volunteer program (student-run clinic for the Baltimore homeless population), got great LORs from my PI/mentors, and really put a lot of work into my PS (thumbs-up from former Hopkins adcom member) and secondaries. And I submitted in early August!

Great, right?

Nope, still no interview invites and already sitting on a handful of rejections. The problem clearly lies in my stats (particularly the sGPA). My MCAT expires this year, and I have already registered for a May 2014 exam. I have a few questions.

a.) If I could manage a 35+, would that alone make up for my GPA? Given how much (or little) I prepared for my first MCAT, this is definitely a realistic goal for me. Not shooting for the high-tiers here, I will take any allopathic school at this point.

b.) Would an SMP make sense? I applied to the Georgetown one as a Plan B, but I'm still waiting to hear back.

I have my heart set on medicine, and I am willing to take the time/do the work to get myself up to snuff. I did consider DO, but my career goals include practicing medicine abroad (either volunteer/work) and the DO degree is still not widely recognized abroad. Also, DO match rates into specialties worry me a bit - I know many do match well, but it's definitely a significant obstacle.

Any input would be awesome. Thanks everybody! :thumbup:


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Your numbers are not clearly the problem. Your numbers are fine.

It's too early to be freaking out.

If you have to apply again:
1. Make sure your 2nd MCAT score is consistent. Stop talking about a 35 and just make sure you break 30 again.
2. Submit as close to June 1 as possible. When you submit AMCAS, your app starts being reviewed in some office in Washington DC which takes 6-8 weeks. So med schools don't review you for a couple of months, regardless of whether they send you a secondary app or not. Point being, submitting on August 1 is on the late side, and it's why you haven't heard from a lot of schools yet.
3. Get a meeting with the dean of admissions at your public state schools - MD? Start working on this now. Get direct feedback on what you need to change.
4. Don't assume reapplying next June 2014 is your best choice. You won't necessarily have the info you need to make a June '14 app better until it's too late to act.

Best of luck to you.
 
DrMidlife, thanks for the tips.

1. I definitely will not take the MCAT unless my practice scores are consistently where I want them to be (so at least a few points above 30). Higher than that would be nice - I'll kill myself studying/practicing until May.
2. I was actually referring to my secondaries. Sorry about the confusion. So I was complete at my schools early to mid August. I submitted June 11th.
3. That's a great suggestion. Maryland is correct. They haven't gotten back to me yet, but I will reach out to them if things don't work out there. I was under the impression that most schools will not honor that kind of request, but I will certainly give it a shot.
4. Agreed. The tentative release date for my MCAT score will be June 10th. I suppose I could have the rest of my app ready to submit and make a decision as soon as I get my score. Otherwise, I think I can keep my head above water financially until my app is where I want it to be.

Is an SMP totally out of the question? My numbers are ok, but I feel like great performance in one of these programs could help get my foot in the door.
 
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$50k for an SMP on top of your stats would be ridiculous, but you wouldn't be the only one. I doubt Gtown is sending acceptances yet.
 
Agree that your stats are not the problem at all. I'm guessing your school list may be an issue though. How many schools did you apply to, and which areas of the country did you target? If you're serious about getting into an MD school, then you need to apply outside of the Northeast. In particular, look at schools in the Midwest and South that take a good number of OOS applicants. These schools get far fewer apps than the coastal schools simply because of location.
 
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This is my list. Should note that I added Tulane in October (definitely should have applied here from the beginning). Rejected pre-interview from Albany, Boston, GW, Georgetown, Michigan State, Rosalind Franklin, University of Wisconsin. Pre-interview hold at Drexel, Penn State, and VCU. Small-pooled at Vermont (then again, who hasn't been..). Nothing but silence from the rest. Sent an update about new developments in research/volunteer activities to schools at the beginning of October.
 
DrMidlife, thanks for the tips.

1. I definitely will not take the MCAT unless my practice scores are consistently where I want them to be (so at least a few points above 30). Higher than that would be nice - I'll kill myself studying/practicing until May.
2. I was actually referring to my secondaries. Sorry about the confusion. So I was complete at my schools early to mid August. I submitted June 11th.
3. That's a great suggestion. Maryland is correct. They haven't gotten back to me yet, but I will reach out to them if things don't work out there. I was under the impression that most schools will not honor that kind of request, but I will certainly give it a shot.
4. Agreed. The tentative release date for my MCAT score will be June 10th. I suppose I could have the rest of my app ready to submit and make a decision as soon as I get my score. Otherwise, I think I can keep my head above water financially until my app is where I want it to be.

Is an SMP totally out of the question? My numbers are ok, but I feel like great performance in one of these programs could help get my foot in the door.

Do NOT do an SMP, especially if you get a 35 MCAT. If you don't get in this cycle, then just make sure you application is ready on day one the next year and that should take care of it. Also, apply to more schools--like 40.

good luck
 
BU, Georgetown, Vermont, Wisconsin, Tufts, and Brown are all completely out of your stat range. I'm surprised that some of the other schools like SLU didn't send you an interview, although it still is relatively early. Did you have your secondary essays reviewed?

I'm IS at Maryland with no interview invite with a 3.8/39....so who knows what's happening there. I would focus your efforts on schools like SLU and NY Med. Do you have any updates regarding your research or volunteering? Try to send in an update/interest letter to schools where you think you should have a good shot.
 
I sent in an update note about a month ago - just mentioned some new developments in my research and that I started volunteering at a free clinic.

Obviously the schools you mentioned were my reach choices - although based on what I've read on here, an II at Vermont is conceivable. Not too hopeful about UMD though. Guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Good luck to you, man - as if you need it with those stats! :thumbup:
 
I don't think an SMP is going to help you $50K worth either, but if you have the money to spare...

I am a reapplicant after 2 MD interviews last year (applied late in the season and interviewed late; also had one pre-interview hold and one outright rejection). Similar stats - a higher GPA and much higher sGPA and around the same MCAT. I have three years of clinical experience as a non-trad. No research.

I increased the number of my DO apps from 1 to 9 this year and the one interview/acceptance I've gotten is from a well regarded DO school and I'm ecstatic. I want to be a doctor. I've been given the chance.

I wish you good luck on the May MCAT. Besides submitting June 1 *yes even if you don't have your MCAT score*, I would also recommend more shadowing and please consider following a DO around for a few days. You might want a DO letter of rec, and you might have your opinion reversed. And if not, more shadowing experience can only help.
 
First of all congratulations on all your improvements . That is certainly not easy to improve as substantially as you have in such a short amount of time! I am a re- applicant and I did follow around a DO and got a letter as a backup( all though I rather like the osteopathic approach) . School selection is key I purchased the msar online ( best investment ever ) and I looked at the ranges of stats and the number of 00s interview invites percentage wise . The results :I'm gettin waaaay more out of state MD interviews than instate interviews. If you can score higher on your Mcat which I suspect you can because 31 was your first score , take it again! Smp might not be needed if you score 3-4 points higher . Smp are expensive , worse comes to worse you are be a fantastic candidate to a bridge program- I would start there in terms of backup plans and also shadow a DO and get a letter just in case ... I still think you can get into an MD program with your stats , maybe apply to a couple of smp programs as a back up back up . It's still to early to tell how this cycle will shake out , try not to stress!
 
My theory is that if you are already willing to do an extra year might as well get a guarantee you will get an interview or get a seat the next year . Add FSU to your list and they will automatically consider you for their bridge program and also their secondary doesn't cost any money !
 
Your stats are fine. Two of my best buddies in my program were re-applicants (actually they were both in their 3rd cycle). Your stats are good. Apply BROADLY (20+ schools) and EARLY (finishing secondaries in June) and you have a good shot. SMP or MCAT retakes are both options to consider as well as other extracurriculars, but at this point you're right on the cusp.

You're also competitive for some of the better DO schools. Based on 2012 data, you are more than 1 standard deviation above the average applicant AND matriculant MCAT, and you have an above average cGPA and sGPA.
 
My theory is that if you are already willing to do an extra year might as well get a guarantee you will get an interview or get a seat the next year . Add FSU to your list and they will automatically consider you for their bridge program and also their secondary doesn't cost any money !


Unless OP is from FL (Which judging by his list of schools, he's not), FSU is harder to gain an interview as an OOS applicant. Also, his numbers probably won't qualify him for the program.

OP, I would worry more around February. It's still kind of early to be freaking out. Just be aware to apply much more broadly and be complete earlier for the next cycle. I would also throw in some DO schools just in case.
 
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What about:
EVMS?
UT?

I was in a similar circumstance as a reapplicant back in the day but with a crappy GPA (< 3.0).

Where you go from here is going to depend on what you want to do. If you want to do research, apply broadly to MD schools again and forget DO schools. The landscape for research is changing with the economy and without a pedigree you might as well be pan-handling on the cornder because you're not going to have much luck getting stuff accepted or getting grants. Very different coming from a big name program. At hopkins we could do crap research and it would get accepted to big name publications.

I too had the option of applying to DO schools after my first round of rejections. Instead, I chose to do an SMP at the shot of getting into an MD school. I did well in the SMP, got into med school (VCU). By doing the SMP instead of applying to DO schools I opened up a ton of doors... but it can be a risky move. What I am getting at is that if you don't want to settle on DO schools yet, don't. For you though, an SMP may not give you much bang for your buck since your GPA is not attrocious. Applying another round to MD schools isn't a ridiculous idea. It risks another year but it also can open many doors by getting into an MD school. Had I settled on DO schools instead of the SMP, my residency applications would have been thrown into the trash. Instead, coming from an low-tier MD school, I interviewed at the top IM programs in the country, became a resident at Hopkins and now a fellow in the #1 Cardiology program in the country. Had I settled, I would not have had any of the options that I now have.

This.

Instatewaiter, you're right - I'm not ready to settle. I was accepted to Georgetown's SMP earlier this week and I plan on attending. I'm aware of the risks, and I'm aware of what is at stake. I have invested too much time and energy getting to this point to allow myself to give it anything less than my best.

And you're absolutely right about spending the extra time/money now in order to open up doors later on. I turned down a number of research positions two years ago before I was hired by a lab at Hopkins. In retrospect, it was well worth the wait. This position has afforded me more opportunities than I ever could have dreamed of.

Props to you and best of luck in the program!
 
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