Advice/Guidance Needed....

[szymk1sm]

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I am kind of having an identity crisis in terms of what I want to do with my life. My goal for the past 4 years has been to get into a Clinical Psych PhD program and become a Neuropsychologist, and now I am questioning if that is really what I want to do. I am not sure if it is the fact that I have gone through 2 rounds of rejections or if my interests are just evolving.

My background: BS in Psychology & Criminal Justice (2007), MS in Experimental Psychology, concentration in Neuroscience (2009). I applied to Clinical Psych PhD programs in 2009, with 9 rejections, 1 acceptance, and 1 wait-list, with rejection afterwards. The program I was accepted into was not APA accredited so I decided to decline their offer. In 2011, I again applied to Clinical Psych programs, with 11 rejections and 2 wait-lists with ultimate rejections. I seem to get to the top of the hill, but cannot make it over the hump. I figure that my main hindrance is my GRE score (1190; 650-q, 540-v, 5.5-w) so I plan on retaking it again at the end of this month.

Since 2009, I have been employed as a Clinical Research Assistant/Coordinator, conducting research on an inpatient mood disorders unit, clinical interviews for neuroimaging studies, and clinical interviews & symptom scores for a novel drug-study. Our database is hitting 800 subjects soon, so I have a ton of data to look through in the next few weeks and should get some posters/presentations/publications out of it. Also presenting a research poster at SfN in November on case-reports related to our drug-study, with a publication being submitted at the end of summer. I also have a publication, currently in review, based on my master's thesis work. As you can see, I'm really involved in research and I absolutely love it. My interests in college were in cognitive symptoms associated with Parkinson's disease. Now, I feel like I am moving towards the realm of psychiatric illness, biomarkers for such disorders, and novel drug-treatments for mood disorders and how to maintain their effects.

I had always figured that Neuropsych was the best option for me since I was interested in investigating cognitive dysfunction. I have also become quite interested in the diagnostic process and the utility of structured clinical interviews. I understand the importance of "correct" diagnoses, because without those, your research becomes irrelevant and you may not be looking at what you thought you were. I have no desire to work/teach in a college setting or provide therapy on a regular basis; instead, I would prefer to work in a hospital/medical/research-type setting. That being said, I am not opposed to providing therapy, I am just not interested in that being my primary job function.

I have considered finishing up my PhD in Neuroscience, but I feel like most of the programs are centered on animal and cellular models. I have no experience with cellular models and have no desire to work on animal models (as I am extremely allergic to the animals and had a difficult time completing studies while in my MS program--took my allergy pills, inhalers, and wore masks but still could not breathe). I am thinking that my interests lie more in the Clinical Neuroscience realm, but I am not too sure how to obtain a degree in this (whether it is Neuroscience vs. Clinical Psych, and if this training comes in internship/post-doc rather than in school).

As you can probably tell, I really have no clue what to do anymore. I am not sure how to get to where I want, which would be a full-time researcher working with clinical populations. If anybody has any insight, guidance, comments, etc, I would greatly appreciate it! Even questions to help me clarify my thoughts would be beneficial.

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

Well the good news is that there are LOTS of options.

The bad news is that you need to sort through them and give some more thought to which you're interested in.

As someone with a PhD in neuroscience, I can tell you that yes you're correct in thinking that many (most?) professional neuroscientists work at the cellular level or with animal models. But not all. For people who are dedicated to doing grad school in neuroscience my standard advice is that they should pick programs based on individual researchers that they want to work with... not location, school prestige, or anything else.

Spend some time on PubMed/Medline looking at research that interests you, and find out where those authors work. Some neuroscientists do not work in "Neuroscience" departments... they might be in a psychology, biology, neurology, psychiatry, public health, genetics, etc. department. Just start poking around doing searches for depression, Alzheimer disease, addiction... whatever interests you.

So don't start by looking for departments; look for people who you want to work with and figure out how to work with them. The easiest way to do this is to write to them and say, "I'm interested in going to graduate school and becoming a researcher. I've been reading some of your articles and I'm curious whether you are open to taking graduate students right now, and which departments you're affiliated with for training graduate students."

This question covers a lot of ground... they might take students, but have a full lab. Or they might not have time or funding. They might take students through the biology department but not the psychology department because they have a bias against psych students. Whatever this person says tells you a lot. Beyond their words, you can also learn a lot from this person by how they treat you when they write back. Did she/he answer the e-mail promptly and thoroughly? That might be a good advisor! Did it take a second e-mail a month later to get a response? This person might blow you off again.

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But it doesn't sound like you're committed to a research PhD. Keep in mind that there are many pathways to research, and many pathways to patient care. An MD is an option, if your GRE scores are keeping you out of clinical psych, there's no guarantee that MCAT scores wouldn't keep you out of medicine...

With your GRE scores you would be a competitive candidate to go through nursing school and then become a psychiatric nurse practitioner. Despite the bad press that NP's get on SDN, nurse practitioners work in patient care and research at all of the best medical schools. So don't let people talk you out of this career option if it appeals to you.

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You have to find a balance between finding the best career option for yourself, and waiting forever to find it. If being a PhD researcher doesn't pan out, that time maybe wasn't best spent. But if it takes another five years anyway to get into a PhD program leading to neuropsychology, then five years spent getting a research PhD might not be wasted.

Try not to take the long way to your goals, but as someone who has a PhD and is now starting an MD program, I know that life throws you curve balls sometimes. Keep in mind that if you have a research-based PhD in psychology, there are respecialization programs to switch over to psychology. I wouldn't suggest anyone make this their plan, but it could be a back-up plan?

 

[futurepsydoc]

I am kind of having an identity crisis in terms of what I want to do with my life. My goal for the past 4 years has been to get into a Clinical Psych PhD program and become a Neuropsychologist, and now I am questioning if that is really what I want to do. I am not sure if it is the fact that I have gone through 2 rounds of rejections or if my interests are just evolving.

My background: BS in Psychology & Criminal Justice (2007), MS in Experimental Psychology, concentration in Neuroscience (2009). I applied to Clinical Psych PhD programs in 2009, with 9 rejections, 1 acceptance, and 1 wait-list, with rejection afterwards. The program I was accepted into was not APA accredited so I decided to decline their offer. In 2011, I again applied to Clinical Psych programs, with 11 rejections and 2 wait-lists with ultimate rejections. I seem to get to the top of the hill, but cannot make it over the hump. I figure that my main hindrance is my GRE score (1190; 650-q, 540-v, 5.5-w) so I plan on retaking it again at the end of this month.

Since 2009, I have been employed as a Clinical Research Assistant/Coordinator, conducting research on an inpatient mood disorders unit, clinical interviews for neuroimaging studies, and clinical interviews & symptom scores for a novel drug-study. Our database is hitting 800 subjects soon, so I have a ton of data to look through in the next few weeks and should get some posters/presentations/publications out of it. Also presenting a research poster at SfN in November on case-reports related to our drug-study, with a publication being submitted at the end of summer. I also have a publication, currently in review, based on my master's thesis work. As you can see, I'm really involved in research and I absolutely love it. My interests in college were in cognitive symptoms associated with Parkinson's disease. Now, I feel like I am moving towards the realm of psychiatric illness, biomarkers for such disorders, and novel drug-treatments for mood disorders and how to maintain their effects.

I had always figured that Neuropsych was the best option for me since I was interested in investigating cognitive dysfunction. I have also become quite interested in the diagnostic process and the utility of structured clinical interviews. I understand the importance of "correct" diagnoses, because without those, your research becomes irrelevant and you may not be looking at what you thought you were. I have no desire to work/teach in a college setting or provide therapy on a regular basis; instead, I would prefer to work in a hospital/medical/research-type setting. That being said, I am not opposed to providing therapy, I am just not interested in that being my primary job function.

I have considered finishing up my PhD in Neuroscience, but I feel like most of the programs are centered on animal and cellular models. I have no experience with cellular models and have no desire to work on animal models (as I am extremely allergic to the animals and had a difficult time completing studies while in my MS program--took my allergy pills, inhalers, and wore masks but still could not breathe). I am thinking that my interests lie more in the Clinical Neuroscience realm, but I am not too sure how to obtain a degree in this (whether it is Neuroscience vs. Clinical Psych, and if this training comes in internship/post-doc rather than in school).

As you can probably tell, I really have no clue what to do anymore. I am not sure how to get to where I want, which would be a full-time researcher working with clinical populations. If anybody has any insight, guidance, comments, etc, I would greatly appreciate it! Even questions to help me clarify my thoughts would be beneficial.

From what you are reporting, your credentials seem tailor made to clinical psychology doctoral programs. It is possible that your verbal score is an impediment. However, I think it can be overcome. I found myself wondering about a few things that might be important. Here goes?

1. Where are you applying? You need to consider the acceptance rates and characteristics incoming classes very carefully. Are your credentials similar. Also consider where you attended undergrad and grad school. This plays a role as well.

2. Are you geographically limited? If yes, this makes things extremely difficult and much of which I will say from this point forward may be moot. If not, I think considering more schools in different locations would be tremendously helpful. There are a lot of great programs out there people don't typically consider.

3. Were the mentors you wanted to work with accepting new students? Did you contact them before applying to express interest and inquire about their taking on someone new? This can be really helpful and go long way.

4. How many interviews did you receive compared to the total number of applications your sent out? What were the differences between the schools you received interviews at versus those at which you didn't? Does something stand out in your mind? For example, there may have been a better research match between you and professor at these schools. Was there less competition, less weight attached to GRE scores, etc?

5. What were the differences were between those schools where you were wait-listed after interviews versus those which lead to rejections? Same considerations above apply. What made you more desirable or a better match at these institutions?

I realize you probably asked yourself many, if not all of these questions, in the past. However, I am thinking that it might good to look at where you had some success and target similar programs, outside of those you already applied to, with a retooled application. Reverse engineering the process might prove fruitful.

I am not sure if this was at all helpful. I hope it was and I wish you the best of luck.