Guidance/considerations for doctoral level psych program

[universityofundecided]

I am currently stuck in limbo trying to determine what options are best for me as far as a higher level of academia. Long story short - I was once ignorant enough to be fooled into attending Capella University at a psychology masters level and got stuck unable to obtain licensure in my state. I was bamboozled, I grieved, and here I am ready to pick up the pieces and move forward. The masters level degree was only a part of my plan, I want to complete a doctoral level program (preferably PsyD). I live in NC and there isn't a PsyD program in my state so I've accepted it'll just have to be a PhD I pursue.

I started watching a documentary about student loans by Dave Ramsey which I'll attach the link below for anyone interested. After watching this I'm slightly traumatized from the information; so moving seems completely out of the question lol there are PhD programs in my state that are within driving distance but these are like some of the top universities in the nation (Duke, UNC, etc.) and maybe that's just my opinion but anyways I feel like with my background and the stupidity of falling into the diploma mill trap, I won't be able to create a competitive application. I also pursued research positions to make a stronger application, unpaid ones and some offered me the position but after I accepted I never heard back.

I plan to apply to Fielding University - the only online APA accredited doctoral program - but I am just terrified at the idea of being stuck with hundreds of thousands of debt and being unable to breathe after the 4-6 years of high stress and productivity. What's the point in working so hard to follow my dreams if half my lifetime will be spent paying back a substantial student debt?

My passion is psychology - my end goal was to build a private practice but if I need to pursue other careers because I just wasn't born into the right tax bracket I am humble enough to ditch my doctoral/private practice dreams and pursue something smaller. Now I'm just ranting but I hope this enough information to get some solid advice, input, or words of wisdom.

Thank you

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[WisNeuro]

If you don't want to repeat the mistake of Capella, don't go to Fielding.

 

[WisNeuro]

Fielding graduates pass the EPPP at a coin flip percentage.

 

[futureapppsy2]

My two cents: I'd go to a reputable, accredited terminal masters program, either in Counseling and Social Work. A PhD doesn't make sense in most cases where someone is strictly location-bound, IMO.

 

[singasongofjoy]

If you aren't willing to consider terminal masters programs with related licensure, then maybe look into school psych programs locally? There are some good school psych programs in that state which, statistically speaking, may be less competitive than the clin psych programs while retaining the licensure option. Feel free to PM if you'd like.

 

[summerbabe]

My passion is psychology - my end goal was to build a private practice but if I need to pursue other careers because I just wasn't born into the right tax bracket I am humble enough to ditch my doctoral/private practice dreams and pursue something smaller. Now I'm just ranting but I hope this enough information to get some solid advice, input, or words of wisdom.

You should REALLY consider an LCSW (or LPC or MFT). It's waaaaaaay cheaper & there are will be reputable state institutions near you that will give you a high quality education & allow you to open a private practice shortly after graduation/licensure (2-3 years versus 5-7 years).

There are plenty of successful LCSW/MFT/LPC private practice owners who find meaning in this work & many who will also out-earn some of their PsyD/PhD counterparts because they are more business-minded.

 

[singasongofjoy]

LCSWs seem to be in v high demand in my area. If you are more interested in therapy than diagnostics or research, that's a good route.

 

[NeuroObsessed]

Fielding University’s clinical psychology program is online? The APA accredits online programs now?

 

[WisNeuro]

Fielding University’s clinical psychology program is online? The APA accredits online programs now?

They consider it "blended" as they have some suckers here and there who have agreed to be prac sites.

 

[WisNeuro]

Coincidentally, the head of the consultant group for the MNC is listed as a faculty fellow there.

 

[PsychSupreme]

OP, you may find help in this:

Careers in Mental Health (Omnibus v. 2)

docs.google.com

Fwiw, I echo the sentiment here that a licensable master's option makes a lot more sense given your interests and constraints.

 

[bcliff]

Get an MSW and become an LCSW. Most straightforward route with the highest (midlevel) degree portability, IMO.

Your story is a good example of why I so rarely encourage folks to get an MA/MS in psychology. I think going either the MPH route for more research/statistics-minded folks or the MSW route for more practice/clinically minded folks almost always makes more sense.

 

[WPMO]

I always hate hearing stories like this where people got a Psychology master's and were unable to get licensed. It used to be that Boards of Counseling allowed a Psych master's with the right coursework to led to licensure as an LPC. That made sense given the quality of many Counseling Psychology master's programs. The APA was foolish to leave master's level licensure for Psychology graduates up to CACREP and Boards of Counseling, who recently mostly have decided to leave Master's Psychology graduates with no licensure options.

I suppose APA doing Master's level accreditation now is better than never, but a lot of Psych master's programs closed down in the mean time. Perhaps in the future your degree will lead to an option to become a Psychological Assistant, if it was in Clinical or Counseling Psychology.

 

[PsyDr]

1) Everything in life is a choice. You have to weigh the options based upon your personal valuation of the options. Maybe being around family is more important than getting into your preferred career. Maybe not. But it’s pointless for an out of shape person to argue that they should be allowed into the NHL because life circumstances didn’t allow them to get into shape.

2) The field does not really allow for geographic restrictions, same for physicians, high level corporate positions, attorneys, etc.

3) Being a capella alumnus really doesn’t need to be an issue, so long as no one knows.

4) When seeking any desirable position, it’s usually a bad idea to tell the hiring staff that you are unwilling to do something. You are competing against extremely motivated people, for a highly desirable postion. Most of those people tell admissions that they are willing to do anything. If they have to choose between a candidate who is willing to do anything, and a candidate who starts the relationship off by saying they won’t do something… it’s an easy choice. I would suggest that you play your cards close to your best until you get in. (This advice does not apply to dating)

5) the entire PsyD = practice oriented thing isn’t true.

6) IMO, Fielding’s reputation is not stellar. Side note: I talk a LOT of smack, and the only person who has threatened to sue me was a Fielding graduate who was offended by my opinion on fielding. I’ve never seen Harvard do that.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Coincidentally, the head of the consultant group for the MNC is listed as a faculty fellow there.

MNC?

 

[WisNeuro]

MNC?

The MN Conference. The debacle that is the proposed updating of the HCG.

 

[ClinicalABA]

I plan to apply to Fielding University - the only online APA accredited doctoral program - but I am just terrified at the idea of being stuck with hundreds of thousands of debt and being unable to breathe after the 4-6 years of high stress and productivity. What's the point in working so hard to follow my dreams if half my lifetime will be spent paying back a substantial student debt?

I encourage you to look at the Student Admissions/Outcomes Data published on the Fielding website. Your stated estimate of "4-6 years" is bit low. Average time to complete the program is 7.44 years (and when making decisions like this, plan on being below average, just to be safe).

My passion is psychology - my end goal was to build a private practice but if I need to pursue other careers because I just wasn't born into the right tax bracket...

This is very counterintuitive/misguided statement. Fielding tuition is some of the highest there is, and sounds like you'd need to finance a lot of, so be sure to account for compound interest (and lots of it!) when doing cost benefit analysis. Having supervised and otherwise met many students from our local version of Fielding, I've found that they were the ones "born into the right tax bracket", not the other way around!

Looking deeper into the Fielding data, you'll find that it's an INCREDIBLY RISKY investment for someone in your position. Attrition rates are between 30-40%, meaning that one in three students who begins doesn't graduate. This student has spent at least 35k, and they are not getting it back. Add another 35k for each year before they dropped out, and- with that tricky demon compound interest- you quickly hit 6 figures owed for something that is worthless (those Fielding online credits are not going to all transfer if you end up in a different program).

Now take look at licensure rates. It 74%. A little back of the napkin math shows that of every 100 students who enroll, only 67 graduate. Of these 67, only 50 are licensed within 2 years after graduating, if at all. So, statistically speaking, on average, only one out of every two students who begin at Fielding is able to work as a licensed psychologist 7-10 years after  graduating matriculating (edited my own error). That's bleak and suggests taking extreme caution before going that route, especially if you need to finance that tuition.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I suppose APA doing Master's level accreditation now is better than never, but a lot of Psych master's programs closed down in the mean time. Perhaps in the future your degree will lead to an option to become a Psychological Assistant, if it was in Clinical or Counseling Psychology.

The horse already left the barn. What we DON’T need is degree encroachment and confusion with titles. TX had already shown us why licensing at the masters level and titles/scope are a bad idea, as they are trying to become psychologists with a fraction of the training.

 

[ClinicalABA]

My passion is psychology -

Is it "psychology" or is it mental health and psychotherapy? If it's the first, that's a VERY big interest (e.g., clinical, social, neuro, cognitive, etc.) and you'll need to narrow it down because you can't get training in all of it. If it's the second, you can get training and credentialing at both the doctoral and masters level. There are compelling reasons to do either, depending on your career goals and life circumstances.

my end goal was to build a private practice but if I need to pursue other careers because I just wasn't born into the right tax bracket I am humble enough to ditch my doctoral/private practice dreams and pursue something smaller. Now I'm just ranting but I hope this enough information to get some solid advice, input, or words of wisdom.

Most private practice therapists (at least in my area and who take my insurance) are masters level licensed professional (LICSW or LMHC). You can get some really good training at relatively inexpensive social work graduate programs in most state college/university systems. This training will be adequate to get licensure so that you can provide therapy services to the general public and accept insurance payment to do so. As a added benefit, these programs are often located in your home community, with practica and internships that will allow for some good networking if you think you will continue to live and practice in that area. You would probably (but not necessarily) get better training through a reputable doctoral program in clinical or counseling psychology, but this would take a lot longer and involve training in other areas of psychology that I'd argue make you a better overall clinical problem solver, but aren't necessary to being a really good therapist.

Thank you

You are very welcome. You are doing the right thing in asking questions and gathering more information. I hope you really get all the info you can before opting for Fielding, as that will be a very big and very risky time and financial commitment on your part.

 

[borne_before]

Bro,

Why are you "stuck" in NC? Kids? Family?

How old are you?

How much debt do you have?

What else besides passion is pulling you this way?

Tell us about your undergrad - GPA, research experience, etc.

What population - maybe a school psych degree (eds or phd w licensure) interests you.

 

[Spydra]

They consider it "blended" as they have some suckers here and there who have agreed to be prac sites.

And this is a huge part of where the student loans go. Funding the travel to get to the few places that agreed to be practicum sites. I'm aware of a number of complaints from Fielding graduates who grossly underestimated how much that would cost. Then they struggle in the internship match, with the EPPP, and landing postdoc roles. Even graduates from the worst PhD programs have an easier time than that.