Advice/guidance to Match into Dermatology

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
H

hookandcook88

New Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Members do not see this ad.
I'm a 3rd year who has recently decided that I would like to pursue a career in dermatology and was curious about my stats and chances of matching to dermatology and what I should do as far as away rotations and research. I have A's in all my preclinical years, and 249 on Step 1. I have some previous research in Plastic surgery that has been submitted for publication, which is still in process and/or review i.e. 4 papers awaiting responses. Basic science research with an emphasis on immunology and autoimmune disease however the project failed, but I did spend a couple months on. A Research paper in ENT that is also in process of submission.
Interms of what to do? I know I should do 1-2 externships in dermatology and try to get LOR to get at least 2 dermatology letters. Any recommendations of places for a good experience I am open to going to most places for this
In terms of research?
Step 2 CK? I'm curious if I should take 4wks at beginning of 4th year and study for CK and take it then do a Dermatology away rotation for 4wks and f/u with Medicine Sub-I and then a second Dermatology away rotation? I figure doing this I could get Derm letters and a strong medicine letter for prelim yr in medicine as well. Thoughts?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions/ tips for the process. Whatever you can offer will be very helpful
 
Not going into derm, but based on what I've read/learned from others on SDN:

Definitely 2-3 aways (+ at your home program) with strong LORs from each. Get some derm research (at least an abstract/presentation/poster) under your belt ASAP. Others can help with a specific location for a possible research elective. May not be a bad idea to do a research elective to achieve this goal. Having the other research is fine, but I believe Derm is one of the fields that require field-specific research to be taken seriously.

Your stats are good. If you can improve on Step 2 (250-255+) then take it. Depends on when your 4th year starts. If it starts in July, it only gives you about 3 months until ERAS opens, which you will want to spend on doing Derm rotations (possibly including a research elective). If that's the case, I don't know if it is worth taking 4 weeks off for CK, and it's definitely not worth doing your Medicine Sub-I if you can avoid it. You don't need a strong IM letter to get a good pre-lim (or TY) spot. People will know you are going into derm. You only need a strong IM letter if you are planning on applying to categorical IM places as a back-up for Derm.

Getting AOA will be very useful for your residency prospects. If your school has some volunteering requirements or any other hoops to be eligible for AOA, then do them ASAP.
 
Check out the dermatology subforum. They have whole threads dedicated to asking about your chances and are going to know more than a lot of people here.
 
colbgw02 said:
It's almost as if this whole thread is just a humblebrag.
Click to expand...

Well, the OP is just being honest. If they didn't specify their Step 1 score, grades, and pubs, people would say it's impossible to chance them without more info
 
WaylonS said:
Well, the OP is just being honest. If they didn't specify their Step 1 score, grades, and pubs, people would say it's impossible to chance them without more info
Click to expand...

Sure, but why the allopathic forum except for validation? If the OP was unfamiliar with the derm forum, then that's a knock on him/her.
 
colbgw02 said:
Sure, but why the allopathic forum except for validation? If the OP was unfamiliar with the derm forum, then that's a knock on him/her.
Click to expand...

Because he's a medical student and applying to residencies is a medical student issue so it's appropriate to post in allopathic. The derm forum is for current residents and attendings.
 
Psai said:
Because he's a medical student and applying to residencies is a medical student issue so it's appropriate to post in allopathic. The derm forum is for current residents and attendings.
Click to expand...

Apparently not, considering that they have "whole threads dedicated to asking about your chances and are going to know more than a lot of people here."
 
colbgw02 said:
Apparently not, considering that they have "whole threads dedicated to asking about your chances and are going to know more than a lot of people here."
Click to expand...
chill out. it's not a humblebrag.

#1. he was just trying to get more information
#2. his stats aren't even that amazing.
 
Research is pretty much baseline expected for applicants. Get as much as you can, but don't spread yourself so thin that you don't complete projects from being too busy. Do you have a home program? If so, how strong is it?

I would say one home rotation (honors) and one or two aways is fine.

If you are geographically limited (bad idea in general) focus on that area. If not, you may want to do one away in your region and use another one to 'break in' to another region.

If you want to know more, you can head to the Derm forum and we can help you out further. There is a comprehensive thread about applying and a 'what are my chances?' thread.

Best of luck to you. It's a stressful endeavor to get in, but totally worth it in the end if you make it in.
 
Last edited:
evilbooyaa said:
Your stats are good. If you can improve on Step 2 (250-255+) then take it. Depends on when your 4th year starts. If it starts in July, it only gives you about 3 months until ERAS opens, which you will want to spend on doing Derm rotations (possibly including a research elective). If that's the case, I don't know if it is worth taking 4 weeks off for CK, and it's definitely not worth doing your Medicine Sub-I if you can avoid it. You don't need a strong IM letter to get a good pre-lim (or TY) spot. People will know you are going into derm. You only need a strong IM letter if you are planning on applying to categorical IM places as a back-up for Derm.
Click to expand...
Unless you are a terrible testtaker then there's no reason you'd need a month to study for step 2. People usually take (sometimes way less than) 2 weeks to study. Also Step 2 is curved 10 points higher than Step 1, so a 255 Step 2 in the context of a 249 Step 1 is not impressive.
 
colbgw02 said:
Apparently not, considering that they have "whole threads dedicated to asking about your chances and are going to know more than a lot of people here."
Click to expand...
In Psai's defense, he is correct. The sub specialty forums are run in the manner seen fit by the Moderators of that forum but in this regard, Derm (and to some extent, some of the others) is moderated outside of standard SDN SOP which stipulates that threads by med students go in the student sub-forums, etc.
 
scarletgirl777 said:
Unless you are a terrible testtaker then there's no reason you'd need a month to study for step 2. People usually take (sometimes way less than) 2 weeks to study. Also Step 2 is curved 10 points higher than Step 1, so a 255 Step 2 in the context of a 249 Step 1 is not impressive.
Click to expand...

While the average is ten points higher, is it all but expected that you will increase your Step 1 score by 10 points on Step 2, regardless of how well you did on Step 1? I get what you're saying, but I imagine there has to be a law of diminishing returns at some point. I guess the people who matched derm would be most capable of answering this question - Since OP got a 249 on Step 1, should they avoid taking Step 2 unless they can get a 260+ on it (as opposed to a 250+)?

I will agree that if OP got a 249 on step 1, 2 weeks of studying should be OK (assuming OP has done well on shelf exams as a 3rd year).
 
evilbooyaa said:
While the average is ten points higher, is it all but expected that you will increase your Step 1 score by 10 points on Step 2, regardless of how well you did on Step 1? I get what you're saying, but I imagine there has to be a law of diminishing returns at some point. I guess the people who matched derm would be most capable of answering this question - Since OP got a 249 on Step 1, should they avoid taking Step 2 unless they can get a 260+ on it (as opposed to a 250+)?

I will agree that if OP got a 249 on step 1, 2 weeks of studying should be OK (assuming OP has done well on shelf exams as a 3rd year).
Click to expand...
I have no interest in derm, but that is what I was made to understand when I applied (to a competitive specialty). Hence being advised not to take Step 2 until after submitting my applications-- there was really no upside to taking it early.
 
hookandcook88 said:
I'm a 3rd year who has recently decided that I would like to pursue a career in dermatology and was curious about my stats and chances of matching to dermatology and what I should do as far as away rotations and research. I have A's in all my preclinical years, and 249 on Step 1. I have some previous research in Plastic surgery that has been submitted for publication, which is still in process and/or review i.e. 4 papers awaiting responses. Basic science research with an emphasis on immunology and autoimmune disease however the project failed, but I did spend a couple months on. A Research paper in ENT that is also in process of submission.
Interms of what to do? I know I should do 1-2 externships in dermatology and try to get LOR to get at least 2 dermatology letters. Any recommendations of places for a good experience I am open to going to most places for this
In terms of research?
Step 2 CK? I'm curious if I should take 4wks at beginning of 4th year and study for CK and take it then do a Dermatology away rotation for 4wks and f/u with Medicine Sub-I and then a second Dermatology away rotation? I figure doing this I could get Derm letters and a strong medicine letter for prelim yr in medicine as well. Thoughts?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions/ tips for the process. Whatever you can offer will be very helpful
Click to expand...
Not sure that a 249 will cut it for derm. Just sayin'
 
Southplains said:
While this is 2011 data, NRMP had mean matched step 1 as 244 for derm, so I doubt a 249 in and of itself is insufficient.
Click to expand...
You're going off data from 3 years ago. Derm is competitive. I didn't mean anything to be rude, I'm just saying it seems low to me.
 
scarletgirl777 said:
It puzzles me that you are making this assertion given that although married to a med student, you are not yourself in medicine...
Click to expand...
Not quite sure how to respond to this. Seriously? That's like saying unless someone is a politician they shouldn't comment on politics.
 
windog said:
Not quite sure how to respond to this. Seriously? That's like saying unless someone is a politician they shouldn't comment on politics.
Click to expand...
Politicians are elected to (theoretically) represent our interests, so no it's not the same thing. But really, how would you be able to have a real sense of Step scores needed to match into a medical specialty just by being married to a med student? Moreover, you weren't just giving an opinion, you made a statement that seemed pretty dismissive of someone's hopes without couching it with any kind of uncertainty.
 
My step I was 249 and I got 20 Derm interview invites. That was three years ago, but things don't change that much in three years.

A 249 is just fine for Derm.

Something like a 234, while above average, might be considered a bit on the low side.

I was going to respond to the original 249 comment, but I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not tbh.
 
windog said:
Not quite sure how to respond to this. Seriously? That's like saying unless someone is a politician they shouldn't comment on politics.
Click to expand...

It's not the same situation, you're not familiar enough with what you're bringing someone down about. A 249 is a competitive score and will not close the door on any specialty.
 
Southplains said:
It's not the same situation, you're not familiar enough with what you're bringing someone down about. A 249 is a competitive score and will not close the door on any specialty.
Click to expand...
You're right. Only medical students and doctors can possibly have any clue about residency requirements. In case you missed it, there's sarcasm there.
 
I guess 249 isn't that low, you should be ok
 
windog said:
You're right. Only medical students and doctors can possibly have any clue about residency requirements. In case you missed it, there's sarcasm there.
Click to expand...

I don't get why it's so hard for you to understand that you don't know a thing about applying to residency. You can't even put a step 1 of 249 in context. "I guess 249 isn't that low." Jesus you are clueless. "I'm married to a medical student so I know what medical school is like." Nope that ain't how it works.
 
windog said:
You're right. Only medical students and doctors can possibly have any clue about residency requirements. In case you missed it, there's sarcasm there.
Click to expand...
I think it's more that your opinion of getting into a derm residency is based on your interpretation of your husband's interpretation of what it takes. And if your husband isn't even a derm applicant himself, that's yet ANOTHER layer. And your misinformation has proven our point.
 
windog said:
You're right. Only medical students and doctors can possibly have any clue about residency requirements. In case you missed it, there's sarcasm there.
Click to expand...

No, others certainly can. You've just painfully shown that you don't know anything about residency requirements.
 
Southplains said:
No, others certainly can. You've just painfully shown that you don't know anything about residency requirements.
Click to expand...
Why do you feel the need to be so rude? Jealous that your Step 1 score wasn't as high?
 
windog said:
Why do you feel the need to be so rude? Jealous that your Step 1 score wasn't as high?
Click to expand...

I wasn't the only one saying you were wrong, and now you realize you weren't as informed as you thought, it's okay; don't get defensive about it. I'm a first year, by the way.
 
windog said:
You're going off data from 3 years ago. Derm is competitive. I didn't mean anything to be rude, I'm just saying it seems low to me.
Click to expand...

It's not low for a step 1. While getting a 260+ is preferred, I would say anything above a 240 makes you competitive for any specialty you want to go into. If OP has the rest of the package (AOA, H in Clinical grades, research) then getting Derm is not only possible, but likely.
 
windog said:
Why do you feel the need to be so rude? Jealous that your Step 1 score wasn't as high?
Click to expand...

LOL at replying to someone with a sarcastic comment then whining that someone was rude to you. Does your medical student spouse know you are posting this ****? FWIW, there is a well known SDN thread where a guy got low 190s and matched derm. Internet forums afford people the ability to pretend like they know what they are talking about and leads to a false sense of confidence. Read any car forum. Everybody is an expert and built their first motor at age 15. Computer forum? Everybody is an expert programmer and has like 40 apps making 10 grand a day each. Homeowner forum? Everybody is an expert and was born with the innate ability to do plumbing, HVAC, and electric. Fitness forum? Everybody has 3% bodyfat and can bench 6 plates. In reality most of these posters are overweight underemployeed middle aged people with boring lives stuck in an office somewhere with a single hobby they are barely proficient at and boost their ego by cruising them web pretending to be experts and putting other people down. Every once in a while a true expert comes in and calls them on their bullsh|t, flame wars result, and their username is either abandoned or used as a troll account.
 
evilbooyaa said:
It's not low for a step 1. While getting a 260+ is preferred, I would say anything above a 240 makes you competitive for any specialty you want to go into. If OP has the rest of the package (AOA, H in Clinical grades, research) then getting Derm is not only possible, but likely.
Click to expand...

I'd go farther than that and say that stuff really doesn't start going off the table until you score less than 220. 240 may be needed for top residencies, but 220-230 can get somewhere in virtually any field if the rest of your application is strong and you're willing to jump through a few extra hoops (research year, extra aways, etc), just not at a top program or in a desirable location. Below the 210 level, even if you applied to every single program in competitive fields with an otherwise strong application, it's unlikely you'll get enough interviews to have a reasonable chance at matching. Saying that a 249 shuts the door for any specialty is a troll comment.
 
atomi said:
I'd go farther than that and say that stuff really doesn't start going off the table until you score less than 220. 240 may be needed for top residencies, but 220-230 can get somewhere in virtually any field if the rest of your application is strong and you're willing to jump through a few extra hoops (research year, extra aways, etc), just not at a top program or in a desirable location. Below the 210 level, even if you applied to every single program in competitive fields with an otherwise strong application, it's unlikely you'll get enough interviews to have a reasonable chance at matching. Saying that a 249 shuts the door for any specialty is a troll comment.
Click to expand...

You're right. I'm saying that a 249 step 1 with average (for the field) eveyrthing else means likely to match. 220-230 generally means you need to really make up for it in the most competitive fields (especially those that take Step 1 as gospel, like Derm/Ortho/Plastics)
 
NickNaylor said:
I didn't read this entire thread, but for FWIW, our department's information for applying to a derm residency is simply a link to this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/dermmatchs-guide-to-applying-to-dermatology.590380/. I have no idea if that means anything to you, but if nothing else that might be a great place to start if you haven't read through it already. There's a lot of great info there.
Click to expand...

Kind of weird, that your Derm department (at a great school) would like to SDN as information for applying to derm residency. I'm guessing the mentorship in that area is not that great (not surprised) - not surprised as it has a history.
 
Dral said:
My step I was 249 and I got 20 Derm interview invites. That was three years ago, but things don't change that much in three years.

A 249 is just fine for Derm.

Something like a 234, while above average, might be considered a bit on the low side.

I was going to respond to the original 249 comment, but I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not tbh.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if that's bc the average Step 1 score, keeps trudging up higher and higher...
 
evilbooyaa said:
It's not low for a step 1. While getting a 260+ is preferred, I would say anything above a 240 makes you competitive for any specialty you want to go into. If OP has the rest of the package (AOA, H in Clinical grades, research) then getting Derm is not only possible, but likely.
Click to expand...

Nowhere close to being true.
 
Dral said:
Yeah, at one of our interview days, you could EASILY count on one hand the number of candidates with less than a 240.

And agree that >260 is not necessarily preferred.
Click to expand...

Step 1 scores are just used as a parameter to make the program feel better that one has the aptitude to be able pass Derm boards. While I think getting a >260 is a great score, I think it's not necessarily preferred, bc you then starting hitting into the very "weird" applicant when it comes to personality, if you know what I mean (i.e. guys who you can tell never had a gf ever, socially awkward, very 1-dimensional, etc.)
 
DermViser said:
Kind of weird, that your Derm department (at a great school) would like to SDN as information for applying to derm residency. I'm guessing the mentorship in that area is not that great (not surprised) - not surprised as it has a history.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Bad vibes, to say the least.
 
evilbooyaa said:
Interesting thought process. I'm not saying a 260 is a free ticket into Derm, but do you guys consider a 240 and a 260 as pretty much the same thing?
Click to expand...

In my experience, board scores serve as a good cutoff point to say ok, this person has the aptitude to pass the derm boards, check that off the list, and move on to something else (i.e. research someone did in derm, etc.)
 
Agree with Dermviser. Was going to type out what they said in my last post, but I'm on my ipad in a train. Heh.

Yes, if two people are the same otherwise, the higher score wins out, but how often does that happen? LORs alone will likely be different between two candidates.

As Dermviser stated, step scores prove one can handle passing boards, but it's the entire package. As residents, we mainly talk about how cool a candidate is and how well they would fit into our program. There are always several candidates that make us say: "wow, that person's record is flawless and they are so smart, but I don't think they would fit into our program the right way".

Academic awesomeness is not the be all end all.

240 and 260 are not the same, but they are not as different as many think.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Dermatology Match
Replies
12
Views
3K
m22499
M
I
Do I need ENT-specific research to match into ENT?
Replies
4
Views
2K
GoSpursGo
GoSpursGo
Baller27
How hard is it to match into competitive specialties in competitive areas with no ties> (NYC, Cali, Chicago)
Replies
20
Views
3K
RN-2-Medicine
RN-2-Medicine
D
A Guide to the Couples Match (2025)
Replies
0
Views
709
doc0024
D
Malenkaya
Advice to prepare to match Gen Surg? M3 at US MD
Replies
1
Views
1K
ChocolateChip>Oreos
C
Top