Advice needed: Harvard vs. State School

[BU2012]

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I was accepted to two schools Dec. 1: my state school and Harvard.

I applied to Harvard just to see if I could get in and I never even expected to get an interview. I almost didn't even take it because I didn't think I'd want to go there. Then I fell in love with the school.

Most people would say this is a no-brainer, but I'm split 50/50.

Cost is roughly the same, so that's not the issue. The issue is specializing.

I think I want to do OMFS or maybe OMF prosthodontics. But after 4 years of dental school, I may just want to be a general dentist. My heart is more set on traveling abroad to do pro-bono dental work. But I would really like to treat cleft lip and palate as well. Who knows?

Obviously, if I go to Harvard the road to OMFS is paved for me. At my state school, it may get bumpy.

Harvard is pass/fail and low stress, which is a huge plus. I still need to take two pre-reqs before I matriculate, but that's just a minor speed bump, albeit an unfortunate one considering I could just take 12 hours next semester and sleep walk into dental school.

Basically, what are the odds of specializing from a state school? I know I'll be one of the top in my class, but to say I would be top 5 out of 70 or so might be a bit ambitious.

The intangibles of the state school are better (beach, South, near home, lots of friends, great city), they just built a brand new dental clinics facility which is second to none, and the clinical education is FAR superior to Harvard's. I also like the city and the culture/people a lot more than Boston.

I care nothing about prestige. A dentist is a dentist and that's a fact. But Harvard opens doors that most state schools can't, and that's also a fact.

I prefer to remain anonymous, or else I'd tell you guys more specifics.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Demps]

congrats on Harvard!

Where is your state school?

Regardless, I will go to Harvard though.

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

I would go to state school. You can still specialize and keep your options open. Harvard is more focused on academia/specializing so if you decide to travel aboard, you might be at a disadvantage.

If you do well at your state school and end up in the top 15, the possibilities are pretty much endless.

 

[Bereno]

Harvard. Its the best of both worlds - you can specialize if you want to, but if you feel you just want to be a GP, then you can do that after you graduate. Either way, Harvard can get you there 👍

 

[tzhu0823]

Perhaps there is a way for you to find out the specializing rates for your state school? But for me, I'd like to keep as many open doors for myself so I have the luxury of options later on. Just my two cents. Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[timwatley]

You'd be plain silly not to go to Harvard. Even if the school is over hyped, the reputation is world wide. You'd even have access to secret political clubs 🙂

 

[dantemac]

I'm facing a similar situation with Penn. In my mind for you, I think you'd like Harvard. You're lucky to have gotten in (although you probably are extremely successful and pro-active in your career), Boston is a great city, and you can't beat the Harvard name. If you wanted to specialize, teach, hell even procure funds for your pro-bono work, Harvard's name will get you a little farther.

The biggest consideration, COST, is about equal. I vote Harvard

 

[longhornpride]

If cost is similar, I'd go to Harvard. Seems like you want to specialize right now and Harvard will help you with that. If you go to Harvard and don't want to specialize, you can always do a GPR/AEGD to refine your clinical skills since Harvard is more academia/research based.

If the state school is 50k+ cheaper... I'd go to the state school.

 

[thompsonae12]

The name might not mean anything to you, but it might to your patients. And you'd have the best opportunities to specialize.

 

[MrWilson]

Depends on several factors. Cost, location, specializing, etc. For me, it would be difficult to turn down the Harvard name and brand, but it depends on the state school, and which place I felt more comfortable.

 

[Toothshucker]

The name might not mean anything to you, but it might to your patients. And you'd have the best opportunities to specialize.

It MAY mean something to the one patient that actually asks/cares. Majority of patients, don't ask/find out/care.

 

[DDStoBE1988]

Harvard is REALLY into research.

If thats not your cup of tea, then dont go there.

 

[GenieG]

I think the best way to pick a school is to pick where you think you'll be happiest during the four years. Like you said, a dentist is a dentist and if you want to specialize from anywhere, you have to make it happen. Chances are, if you are happy at your state school you will excel and be able to specialize. Keep in mind that the low stress environment at Harvard/less anxiety when it comes to specializing may make you happier but that is something you'll have to figure out. The Harvard name is really difficult to turn down, but wherever you go you'll succeed so just find where you'll be happiest.

 

[FLOSS UR TEETH]

Basically, what are the odds of specializing from a state school? I know I'll be one of the top in my class, but to say I would be top 5 out of 70 or so might be a bit ambitious.

Don't be quick to jump the gun. It is not wise to underestimate your classmates. Anyways, this is a very difficult decision. I still think your state school would probably be cheaper. You would definitely be able to specialize from a state school and since you are not 100% sure, I don't think it is the best idea to choose a school based on whether or not it will get you into one specific specialty. I think it is more important to be happy at a school instead of just choosing a school because you think it will get you into a specialty (that you might not want down the road) better. Plus, you seem like a confident guy so don't worry about your state school's effect on your ability to specialize. No matter which school you are at you need to work your ass off to get into OMFS trust me.

 

[uclaDDS101]

I was accepted to two schools Dec. 1: my state school and Harvard.

I applied to Harvard just to see if I could get in and I never even expected to get an interview. I almost didn't even take it because I didn't think I'd want to go there. Then I fell in love with the school.

Most people would say this is a no-brainer, but I'm split 50/50.

Cost is roughly the same, so that's not the issue. The issue is specializing.

I think I want to do OMFS or maybe OMF prosthodontics. But after 4 years of dental school, I may just want to be a general dentist. My heart is more set on traveling abroad to do pro-bono dental work. But I would really like to treat cleft lip and palate as well. Who knows?

HSDM may give you the best opportunities. As part of our research requirement, many students in the past have gone abroad to do studies. If you want, you can go to southeast asia to assess the rate of comorbidity between cleft lip/palate and breast cancer (random example) or to the Netherlands to take advantage of their National Cleft Registry to do a population study. The reason for HSDM's high specialization rates isn't the name; it's the opportunities it gives it's students to form into amazing well-rounded applicants with unique experiences.

Obviously, if I go to Harvard the road to OMFS is paved for me. At my state school, it may get bumpy.

The path to OMS from HSDM may be more paved than you think. I don't think I'm at liberty to display full details publicly, but PM if you're interested in knowing about the "road to OMS" at HSDM. It was something I was unaware of before coming here, but I was pleasantly surprised to learn.

Harvard is pass/fail and low stress, which is a huge plus. I still need to take two pre-reqs before I matriculate, but that's just a minor speed bump, albeit an unfortunate one considering I could just take 12 hours next semester and sleep walk into dental school.

Basically, what are the odds of specializing from a state school? I know I'll be one of the top in my class, but to say I would be top 5 out of 70 or so might be a bit ambitious.

The intangibles of the state school are better (beach, South, near home, lots of friends, great city), they just built a brand new dental clinics facility which is second to none, and the clinical education is FAR superior to Harvard's. I also like the city and the culture/people a lot more than Boston.

It would be helpful to know which state school to make a fair comparison.

I care nothing about prestige. A dentist is a dentist and that's a fact. But Harvard opens doors that most state schools can't, and that's also a fact.

I prefer to remain anonymous, or else I'd tell you guys more specifics.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I would go to state school. You can still specialize and keep your options open. Harvard is more focused on academia/specializing so if you decide to travel aboard, you might be at a disadvantage.

Not true. Anyone who wants to travel abroad is able and encouraged to do so (as part of the HSDM curriculum. We have a strong focus on global health at HSDM/HMS, and HSDM just established a global health honors track. HSDM isn't focused on pushing out academics. It just so happens that some people decide to go into academics. For example, no one in my class or the 2nd year class has opted to pursue the DMD/PhD program. But maybe 2+ may do it next year. The outcomes of the HSDM graduating class is dependent on student decisions; that's important to note.

If you do well at your state school and end up in the top 15, the possibilities are pretty much endless.

If cost is similar, I'd go to Harvard. Seems like you want to specialize right now and Harvard will help you with that. If you go to Harvard and don't want to specialize, you can always do a GPR/AEGD to refine your clinical skills since Harvard is more academia/research based.

If the state school is 50k+ cheaper... I'd go to the state school.

I agree.

Harvard is REALLY into research.

If thats not your cup of tea, then dont go there.

You'd be surprised to know what HSDM considers to be "research". See the above comments about traveling abroad. You can pretty much do anything you want to fulfill the research requirement here (i.e., global health stuff, community projects, etc.). The minority of us actually end up in labs to do our research.

 

[Lane138]

The name might not mean anything to you, but it might to your patients.

If a dentist is hawking their Harvard name to get patients, then they probably don't have that much else going for them. How many patients actually care about where their dentist got trained?

The more important point is, where do you think you'll be happiest, not only during your four years but also in the future? It's hard to compare since we don't know where your state school is, but you should definitely consider the happiness factor and where you fit in better. Harvard obviously has a great name, but like the students told me in the interview last week, it's not a school for everyone, because of its unique curriculum and lack of clinic experience (so you have to really learn fast during the 3rd year). On the other hand, its unique curriculum might also be a positive if you think that's what you're looking for. If you're a hard working person during the four years of dental school, specializing shouldn't be an issue either way, especially now that the boards are going pass/fail.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[BU2012]

So I called my state school and they said that as long as I'm in the top 3rd of the class, I should have zero difficulty matching to an oral surgery, or any speciality, program. The faculty does everything they can to help you match, and yes, it's more of the student than the school that gets you in the door. They apparently match 100% of their applicants that are in the top 20 of their class, which Columbia seemed to make it sound like specialization rates were in the gutter unless you went there or Harvard. Just a recruiting tactic it would seem.

Haven't made my decision and I'm going up to Boston in a couple of weeks to finalize it. But I'm thinking if I can accomplish all of my goals at a state school, then I have no reason to go to Harvard other than prestige, which is something I care nothing about. Pass/fail is an amazing bonus, however. But so is 4 years of clinical education vs. 2. And just a side note, Harvard is NOT research heavy like people make it out to be. You can pretty much do anything to fulfill the research requirement. They differ in their curriculum, and that's it.

If it was law or business, then yeah, it would be stupid to turn down Harvard. But this is dentistry and you're right, it's more about where I'll be happiest for the next 4 years than the "badge" I get to wear when I graduate.

Thanks for your input guys. I really appreciate the help.

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

So I called my state school and they said that as long as I'm in the top 3rd of the class, I should have zero difficulty matching to an oral surgery, or any speciality, program. The faculty does everything they can to help you match, and yes, it's more of the student than the school that gets you in the door. They apparently match 100% of their applicants that are in the top 20 of their class, which Columbia seemed to make it sound like specialization rates were in the gutter unless you went there or Harvard. Just a recruiting tactic it would seem.

Haven't made my decision and I'm going up to Boston in a couple of weeks to finalize it. But I'm thinking if I can accomplish all of my goals at a state school, then I have no reason to go to Harvard other than prestige, which is something I care nothing about. Pass/fail is an amazing bonus, however. But so is 4 years of clinical education vs. 2. And just a side note, Harvard is NOT research heavy like people make it out to be. You can pretty much do anything to fulfill the research requirement. They differ in their curriculum, and that's it.

If it was law or business, then yeah, it would be stupid to turn down Harvard. But this is dentistry and you're right, it's more about where I'll be happiest for the next 4 years than the "badge" I get to wear when I graduate.

Thanks for your input guys. I really appreciate the help.

I like how I was the only one who fully endorsed the state school

 

[budentite]

Harvard is known for producing academics/researchers. It's not really for someone looking to be a clinician. If you're considering teaching, you definitely should go to Harvard. If you are looking to only practice, then go somewhere else.

 

[uclaDDS101]

Harvard is known for producing academics/researchers. It's not really for someone looking to be a clinician. If you're considering teaching, you definitely should go to Harvard. If you are looking to only practice, then go somewhere else.

How do you know this? What percentage of each class do you think actually ends up going into academics?

 

[iralex801]

So I called my state school and they said that as long as I'm in the top 3rd of the class, I should have zero difficulty matching to an oral surgery, or any speciality, program. The faculty does everything they can to help you match, and yes, it's more of the student than the school that gets you in the door. They apparently match 100% of their applicants that are in the top 20 of their class, which Columbia seemed to make it sound like specialization rates were in the gutter unless you went there or Harvard. Just a recruiting tactic it would seem.

Haven't made my decision and I'm going up to Boston in a couple of weeks to finalize it. But I'm thinking if I can accomplish all of my goals at a state school, then I have no reason to go to Harvard other than prestige, which is something I care nothing about. Pass/fail is an amazing bonus, however. But so is 4 years of clinical education vs. 2. And just a side note, Harvard is NOT research heavy like people make it out to be. You can pretty much do anything to fulfill the research requirement. They differ in their curriculum, and that's it.

If it was law or business, then yeah, it would be stupid to turn down Harvard. But this is dentistry and you're right, it's more about where I'll be happiest for the next 4 years than the "badge" I get to wear when I graduate.

Thanks for your input guys. I really appreciate the help.

Completely agree with the bold part.

BTW, if your state school is something like UCLA, I would say this would be an easy choice. You're going to a great school and like u said in your original post, you get to stay near the BEACH and your friends. Im gonna miss the beach so muchhh when I go to D school haha. Additionally, being near your friends will be a great support system and thus in turn (IMO) allowing you to do better in school. I don't know about you, but I can't study if I'm feeling down and lonely.

 

[dansou5]

How do you know this? What percentage of each class do you think actually ends up going into academics?

I would also like some evidence to show this. I mean its like one person on SDN made this comment and it has stuck without anything to back it up. 😕

 

[dantemac]

I would also like some evidence to show this. I mean its like one person on SDN made this comment and it has stuck without anything to back it up. 😕

I am sure Harvard dentists are fine clinicians. And if they feel they aren't, the name would help them get into a competitive residency or GPR.

 

[Silencio]

Harvard. Once in a lifetime opportunity to attend Harvard. That would put you in 99.99999 percentile of this world.

 

[BU2012]

Harvard. Once in a lifetime opportunity to attend Harvard. That would put you in 99.99999 percentile of this world.

There are many once in a lifetime opportunities and dental school is one of them, no matter where you go.

I don't need to go to Harvard just so I can feel special, proud, etc. Getting in is just as big of an accomplishment as actually attending. Fact is, it seems a lot of people on here would choose a school based on its name alone. Considering we're going to dental school to provide a service, I find that choosing the school that makes me look best over a school which will provide the best quality of clinical education highly self-serving. I want to go to the place that will prepare me to be the best clinician I can be so that I can provide quality care to others. Right now, it looks like Harvard is not where I can BEST accomplish that. Plus, I went to Boston this weekend and I noticed two big things:

1) It's painfully cold (and it's not even THAT cold for up there) and it gets dark at 4:30.
2) I could count all of the attractive women on both hands over the course of two full days.

Sacrificing life at the beach in a beautiful city, 60-70 degree winters, a top 5 clinical education and facilities, and scores of beautiful women (looking for a wife here) just for a name and prestige? Once again, I'd rather the name of my school not open doors for me. I'd rather open the same doors myself.

I still have to talk to a couple more dentists, but I've pretty much made my decision.

I really do appreciate all of the quality feedback, though. It's definitely helpful.

 

[iralex801]

There are many once in a lifetime opportunities and dental school is one of them, no matter where you go.

I don't need to go to Harvard just so I can feel special, proud, etc. Getting in is just as big of an accomplishment as actually attending. Fact is, it seems a lot of people on here would choose a school based on its name alone. Considering we're going to dental school to provide a service, I find that choosing the school that makes me look best over a school which will provide the best quality of clinical education highly self-serving. I want to go to the place that will prepare me to be the best clinician I can be so that I can provide quality care to others. Right now, it looks like Harvard is not where I can BEST accomplish that. Plus, I went to Boston this weekend and I noticed two big things:

1) It's painfully cold (and it's not even THAT cold for up there) and it gets dark at 4:30.
2) I could count all of the attractive women on both hands over the course of two full days.

Sacrificing life at the beach in a beautiful city, 60-70 degree winters, a top 5 clinical education and facilities, and scores of beautiful women (looking for a wife here) just for a name and prestige? Once again, I'd rather the name of my school not open doors for me. I'd rather open the same doors myself.

I still have to talk to a couple more dentists, but I've pretty much made my decision.

I really do appreciate all of the quality feedback, though. It's definitely helpful.

Woah. I can't agree more with this post 👍👍👍. You and the close people in your life, whose opinions actually matter, know that you got into Harvard and you are in the top 99.9% of the world. Sacrificing your happiness just for a name is crazy. There's more to life than just dentistry.

 

[jackalo34]

1) It's painfully cold (and it's not even THAT cold for up there) and it gets dark at 4:30.
2) I could count all of the attractive women on both hands over the course of two full days.

1. Welcome to winter in the NE.
2. Ouch my ego 😛 But seriously, it's winter…who tries to look sexy when its below 20 degrees outside lol

 

[UltimateHombre]

If cost is the same for both your state school and Harvard, and your ultimate goal is to do OMS... you would be a complete fool not to attend Harvard.

 

[Lane138]

just a quick question, how does Harvard tell you that you got in? Is it through email/ phone call/ or snail mail?

 

[Silencio]

There are many once in a lifetime opportunities and dental school is one of them, no matter where you go.

I don't need to go to Harvard just so I can feel special, proud, etc. Getting in is just as big of an accomplishment as actually attending. Fact is, it seems a lot of people on here would choose a school based on its name alone. Considering we're going to dental school to provide a service, I find that choosing the school that makes me look best over a school which will provide the best quality of clinical education highly self-serving. I want to go to the place that will prepare me to be the best clinician I can be so that I can provide quality care to others. Right now, it looks like Harvard is not where I can BEST accomplish that. Plus, I went to Boston this weekend and I noticed two big things:

1) It's painfully cold (and it's not even THAT cold for up there) and it gets dark at 4:30.
2) I could count all of the attractive women on both hands over the course of two full days.

Sacrificing life at the beach in a beautiful city, 60-70 degree winters, a top 5 clinical education and facilities, and scores of beautiful women (looking for a wife here) just for a name and prestige? Once again, I'd rather the name of my school not open doors for me. I'd rather open the same doors myself.

I still have to talk to a couple more dentists, but I've pretty much made my decision.

I really do appreciate all of the quality feedback, though. It's definitely helpful.

Getting into dental school, although an accomplishment, is not all that. I mean just look at the multiple douche bags who get in every year. However, getting into Harvard is legit. Clinical training will only matter on graduation day. After a year or two in practice, everyone will be on par, even the people from lame clinical schools. Since dental school will be an intense 4 years of nonstop studying (similar to what you did for DAT prep but for 4 years straight) you will be indoors all the time. Thus, you won't be able to enjoy the weather, the beach, nightlife or anything else that a city can offer. The only real deterrent in your case is the cold temperature. So 4 months (Nov-Feb) of cold weather of which 1 month will be winter break when you can travel to a warm spot. There's also something called heat and a down jacket and thermal underwear. Again you'll be indoors most of the time studying or sleeping. That's a small weather price to pay (survive the cold for 3-4 months while traveling from home to school, and school to home, and a few errands here and there) for a Harvard degree.

 

[dantemac]

I say if you're invited to the party, you should go! Harvard is tough to pass up.

 

[dent2451]

There are many once in a lifetime opportunities and dental school is one of them, no matter where you go.

I don't need to go to Harvard just so I can feel special, proud, etc. Getting in is just as big of an accomplishment as actually attending. Fact is, it seems a lot of people on here would choose a school based on its name alone. Considering we're going to dental school to provide a service, I find that choosing the school that makes me look best over a school which will provide the best quality of clinical education highly self-serving. I want to go to the place that will prepare me to be the best clinician I can be so that I can provide quality care to others. Right now, it looks like Harvard is not where I can BEST accomplish that. Plus, I went to Boston this weekend and I noticed two big things:

1) It's painfully cold (and it's not even THAT cold for up there) and it gets dark at 4:30.
2) I could count all of the attractive women on both hands over the course of two full days.

Sacrificing life at the beach in a beautiful city, 60-70 degree winters, a top 5 clinical education and facilities, and scores of beautiful women (looking for a wife here) just for a name and prestige? Once again, I'd rather the name of my school not open doors for me. I'd rather open the same doors myself.

I still have to talk to a couple more dentists, but I've pretty much made my decision.

I really do appreciate all of the quality feedback, though. It's definitely helpful.

If you don't think you'd come out of Harvard as a great clinician, you're very wrong. Correct, dental students at Harvard don't spend much time in the patient clinic during their first two years. Do you know why? It's because they're so involved with the medical school and becoming a much more well-rounded medical professional than possible at other schools. From the first week on, students make trips to the hospital to practice working with patients. Besides, in the first two years at other schools, students are likely only serving as dental assistants and handing upperclassmen their instruments..

HSDM isn't consistently ranked as one of the top schools in the nation because they're graduating below-average dentists. Why do you think HSDM has such high acceptance rates into residencies of their students' choosing? It's because residency programs are aware that Harvard students have the potential to be among the best clinicians and specialists.
The student to faculty ratio in the Harvard dental clinics is very low (about 3:1) given the small class size of 35 students. Therefore, while other schools (particularly big state schools) may have their students waiting around for the assistance of a faculty member working with 10 other students, Harvard has a strong student-faculty interaction. Essentially, at HSDM, students will have a much faster learning curve given the one-on-one instruction available to them. A large Boston patient population also doesn't hurt, as students are encouraged to "build their own curriculum" and complete as many procedures as they believe they need to in order to feel proficient.

 

[Pat Kelly]

a lot of people who are either trashing or praising harvard have no idea what they are talking about. The only one here qualified to say anything is ucladds101, so stop posing you opinions as "facts". and NO, it doesn't matter what your dentist or your friend of a friend said, that's 2nd or 3rd hand information and extremely biased.

If MUSC costs 90k or so, and Harvard is about 220k, go with MUSC all the way. You are smart enough to compete for residencies either way, irregardless of whether you go to MUSC or not. You can stay close to home, save that money which you can use to pay for your residency (those extra 3+ years cost money too you know). Don't listen to anyone here that claims either Harvard is good or bad except for who i said above, because they have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[zzyyfff]

also a current HSDM student here, in class w/ ucladds101...

dent2451 is spot on. Also Pat makes excellent points.

If anyone is considering Harvard because of the name, please don't. Look again at all the other aspects of the schools you're choosing between and ignore the name. If you come here for the name, you won't fit in and may regret it. Many of my classmates actually considered the name and all its baggage to be a major drawback, relative to their own sensibilities (I sure did).

Early opportunities for advanced dentistry, incredible faculty:student ratio, and tons of support for independent, adult-style learning were big ones for me. Personally, the biggest factor I ended up focusing on was the people I'd be working with, from students to faculty. I resonated with the intelligence, deep curiosity about everything, and level on happiness I found everywhere. For me, this place blew all the others away. YMMV. 🙂

In the end, if would be hard to make a bad decision, but there may be one that's a little better for you personally in the long run

a lot of people who are either trashing or praising harvard have no idea what they are talking about. The only one here qualified to say anything is ucladds101, so stop posing you opinions as "facts". and NO, it doesn't matter what your dentist or your friend of a friend said, that's 2nd or 3rd hand information and extremely biased.

If MUSC costs 90k or so, and Harvard is about 220k, go with MUSC all the way. You are smart enough to compete for residencies either way, irregardless of whether you go to MUSC or not. You can stay close to home, save that money which you can use to pay for your residency (those extra 3+ years cost money too you know). Don't listen to anyone here that claims either Harvard is good or bad except for who i said above, because they have no idea what they are talking about.