Advice needed: how should I proceed?

[vitanuova]

Warning: This is a very long and complicated post. Kudos to you if you get through it all.

I am in the middle of an informal post bacc and I am trying to decide if I should prepare to apply this June or to wait another year.

My goal is to attend medical school, residency and practice in California. ( I am currently living on the other side of the country but grew up in norcal, have family ties there, etc..)
I am very interested in psychiatry or perhaps neurology. I do not intend to pursue a competitive residency like derm or anything.

I have a BA and an MA from top 20 schools. My current cum GPA is 3.8ish and my sci GPA is 3.5ish
I decent but not extraordinary ECs (some shadowing and clinical volunteering, 300+ hours of non-clinical volunteering, a little research, and two years of teaching experience)
I will be finishing my prereq's in the spring (except for biochem and calc).

I have not taken the MCAT but I have a history of doing very well on standardized tests (eg SAT, GRE, and a few practice LSATs). I know my MCAT score will huge variable.

At this point a I trying to figure out which path I should take:
Path 1 : Prepare to MCAT over winter break and next semester. Continue clinical volunteering. Take MCAT in April 2013 and pray for a good score. Apply to Cali MD & DO schools in June 2013 knowing that MDs will be a long shot but DOs should be in my reach.

Path 2: Spend an extra year beefing up my application with more upper level science classes and clinical experience. Spend summer of 2013 studying for MCAT instead of doing mcat prep during spring 2013. Apply to MD/DO June 2014.

I know that path 2 will lead to the strongest application. I would prefer MD but I would be fine with DO.

Big complicating factor: my husband is finishing his residency in summer of 2014 and will be looking for a job in 2014. It would be ideal if I were to begin med school in 2014 so that he can find a job nearby. If I don't matriculate until 2015, it will likely put him in the position of having to look for another job in 2015. (He will be an anesthesiologist graduating from a top residency program and it shouldn't be too difficult for him to find a job but it is still a huge factor)
Other factors: spending an extra year taking upper levels classes = paying more $ for more undergrad coursework. We are paying for my post bacc with my husband's residency salary which means we are basically living paycheck to paycheck.
What should I do?!

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[cabinbuilder]

1. Not sure why your aren't having this discussion with your husband since he has already been there done that with the med school entry thing???

2. Need to take the MCAT, that may be your deciding factor.
3. Need to repeat whatever classes are bringing down that science GPA. It's not going to help you to take more upper division. Plus the DO schools replace the grade, not average
4. I don't think your husband's employment should be a factor since he will be able to get a job anywhere you are. That is a moot point.

Never know until you apply. Remember that California is extermely competitive for both MD and DO schools. Don't be crushed if you don't get into medical school there. You can always apply for residency there and ultimately work in CA when you finish. Most people don't get the luxury of doing all aspects of training in the same place.

 

[vitanuova]

I have already discussed everything with my husband and he doesn't know how to advise me. I wouldn't ask random people on the internet for advice without having first discussed things with my husband. His med school application experience was very different from what mine will be. He was a traditional student who knew little about the application process. He applied to 3 schools late in the application cycle but has stellar stats and got into a top tier school with no problems.

Also, wouldn't be better to take upper level bio classes than repeat the prereqs that I got B's in?

 

[mspeedwagon]

I don't know how to advise you other than score very high on the MCAT (as I'm sure you know, there are very few non-state schools in Northern California). I'm assuming you are not still a CA resident (despite ties) and CA state schools bite those even with great stats (straights 12/ 36+ will put you in the drivers seat though). Since I'm currently in the process of studying for the MCAT, this is no easy feat to accomplish.

A lot of the schools (Stanford / UCSF value research and clinical experience a whole deal so high stats alone won't be good enough... they need to be in conjunction with high stats).

The reason I posted was to respond to below though. Don't repeat Bs. Your GPA is high enough for DO schools (or Touro-CA which would be the only one in NoCal) and there isn't much benefit for MD schools to re-take.

Also, wouldn't be better to take upper level bio classes than repeat the prereqs that I got B's in?

 

[vitanuova]

Thanks for the response.
I do know that California schools are brutal and I am not under any delusion that I will magically get a 37 on the mcat and get into Stanford.

Would it be a good idea for me to take a diagnostic MCAT to get a rough idea of where I stand? Does a taking a diagnostic test without having done any prep work give you a good idea of what your actual score could be?

 

[cabinbuilder]

I have already discussed everything with my husband and he doesn't know how to advise me. I wouldn't ask random people on the internet for advice without having first discussed things with my husband. His med school application experience was very different from what mine will be. He was a traditional student who knew little about the application process. He applied to 3 schools late in the application cycle but has stellar stats and got into a top tier school with no problems.

Also, wouldn't be better to take upper level bio classes than repeat the prereqs that I got B's in?

Ok, just checking. You would be surprised how many ask on the internet without consulting the resource in the living room. Seen it happen. I agree he was a lucky outlier.

I personally wouldn't retake B's. I would retake C's or lower. If all youur pre-req's are B's then you could take upper division. But upper division brilliance does not override less than stellar undergrad core.

Seriously need to take the MCAT and have all the pieces on the table before you can make an educated decision whether to apply or wait.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I have mixed feelings about doing a diagnostic test without any studying. I've heard of and seen many people do it and say that they got a 30 on the diagnostic test and then work hard to fine tune. If you fall into this category without studying then a 37 is probably very realistic.

I think more commonly people are devastated by their performance (often scoring in the high teens/low 20s). I currently fall into this category (thanks Kaplan Diagnostic). I've read on the EK site that the majority of folks taking the MCAT cold score between 6 and 8 on each section. A lot of these folks (myself included) shoot for 30+ and often end up in the high 20s/low 30s after studying.

I don't know if any of that was helpful... but a diagnostic test will help give you a rough idea, but know that you can improve regardless.

Thanks for the response.
Would it be a good idea for me to take a diagnostic MCAT to get a rough idea of where I stand? Does a taking a diagnostic test without having done any prep work give you a good idea of what your actual score could be?

 

[vitanuova]

Very helpful. Thanks
I'll plan on taking a diagnostic test after this semester is over to get a better sense of where I stand.

 

[gyngyn]

Just to reiterate what has already been said: CA is the largest exporter of medical students in the US. Every year ~5000 CA applicants try for ~1000 1st year positions. ~800 are successful, ~1600 have to leave the golden state. Any other state of residence is better for IS chances, even the states without a medical school!( because of interstate alliances).

These are allopathic data only.

 

[vitanuova]

Should I consider it impossible to get into an allo school in CA since my GPA is 3.8/3.5? What if I can raise my science GPA to a 3.6 by the end of the spring term? Or should I just give up on the idea of getting into an allopathic school in California and focus on getting into the 2 osteopathic school in CA?

I understand the point of view that applying outside of CA will greatly increase my chances of getting into med school, but if my ultimate goal is to attend residency and then practice in CA, won't it benefit me to attend medical school in California? If I were to attend a middle tier allopathic school in another part of the country wouldn't it be more difficult to gain entrance into a California residency than if I were to have attended medical school (even a DO school) in California?

 

[deleted367183]

Hmm. Interesting.

What general geographic area (if not CA) would your husband like to work in? Let's hope it's not Texas.

If I were you, YMMV, I would (of course) apply to all the CA MD and DO programs. THEN also apply to all conceivable programs in whatever other place you guys might be willing to live.

IF you get interviews in CA, that will of course be fantastic and good show by you. But this way you are still well-represented elsewhere if that doesn't come through. It's not unlike, let's say, applying to all the Ivies and Pitt just in case one of them takes an interest.

I do not know, incidentally, about residency matching in Northern CA. I would only expect that there are many more resident slots than med school slots. Maybe ask in the non-premed forums? I would find it hard to believe that state of med education mattered that much...but I don't know.

Good luck! You'll get in somewhere...don't let this CA thing bring you down.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Should I consider it impossible to get into an allo school in CA since my GPA is 3.8/3.5? What if I can raise my science GPA to a 3.6 by the end of the spring term? Or should I just give up on the idea of getting into an allopathic school in California and focus on getting into the 2 osteopathic school in CA?

I understand the point of view that applying outside of CA will greatly increase my chances of getting into med school, but if my ultimate goal is to attend residency and then practice in CA, won't it benefit me to attend medical school in California? If I were to attend a middle tier allopathic school in another part of the country wouldn't it be more difficult to gain entrance into a California residency than if I were to have attended medical school (even a DO school) in California?

Yes, you should view CA as nearly impossible. Getting into medical school is like the lottery, the more tickets you buy the greater the odds off acceptance. You are doing yourself a disservice by only applying to California, espeically when your husband is already a doctor and can get a job wherever you end up attending. A great position to be in.

NO, NO, NO. Most students don't attend medical school and residency in the same state. Need to change your thinking. Besides, even if you do residency somewhere else, once you are licensed you can work anywhere and employers don't hire based on the state you did your residency in. Not sure why you are thinking this way?

 

[vitanuova]

I am thinking this way because if I do med school and residency in a different part of the country that will mean I will spend the next decade(ish) of my life living far away from where I want to be. Everyone has different priorities in life. I want to go to a med school that will give me the best chance of doing residency and eventually practicing in CA. I don't think this is unreasonable, especially if I'm open to DO schools.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I am thinking this way because if I do med school and residency in a different part of the country that will mean I will spend the next decade(ish) of my life living far away from where I want to be. Everyone has different priorities in life. I want to go to a med school that will give me the best chance of doing residency and eventually practicing in CA. I don't think this is unreasonable, especially if I'm open to DO schools.

I am all about having dreams and pre-med ideals. My posts are never meant to put down or demean anyone's hopes for the future.

My Story: I grew up in Alaska, wanted to stay on the West Coast to go to medical school so it would be easier to travel back and forth to Alaska due to custody arrangements and having family in that part of the country. My first round of applications I only applied to the West Coast and never got an interview. I applied broadly in the end and moved to PA for medical school. Scared to death, didn't know a soul. Again, I had that notion of getting back to the West coast for residency. That didn't happen either and I ended up scrambling into a program in TX. I had never been to TX either and had lots of pre-conceived ideas of what that would be like since I had never been to the South. After I finished residency, I put out my CV and my phone literally rang off the hook about job offers.

Currently, I have 6 state licenses (all Western states + TX) and I work where I have always wanted to work. I am not discriminated against in the job market for my degree or where I did residency. My job right now is in Alaska where I always wanted to be.


MY POINT: I understand that your heart is in CA. There is nothing wrong with that. I just want you to understand that IF THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN, it's not the end of the world and where you go to medical school and residency really doesn't have any bearing on the job market. If you want to work in CA, then get a CA license and go to work.

 

[ChE04]

I am thinking this way because if I do med school and residency in a different part of the country that will mean I will spend the next decade(ish) of my life living far away from where I want to be. Everyone has different priorities in life. I want to go to a med school that will give me the best chance of doing residency and eventually practicing in CA. I don't think this is unreasonable, especially if I'm open to DO schools.

If you rock the MCAT I think you'd have a decent shot at USC, at least (from a numbers point of view, anyway). I don't think you can ever count on getting into any school though.

You can always do away rotations at CA institutions if you want to get on those residency's radar screens. So presuming you do well in medical school, you should still have a pretty good shot at getting a CA residency. Look at the match lists of schools and you can get an idea of where they send their graduates. If there are few going to CA schools every year, then you should have nothing to worry about really. Its not like going to med school in CA guarantees you a CA residency.

You have to keep in mind that most grads from CA schools are from CA, and are going to want to stay in CA. Most grads from TX schools are from TX, and are going to want to stay in TX. That's one of the main reasons why a large number of people matching to CA residencies are from CA schools.

 

[gyngyn]

Should I consider it impossible to get into an allo school in CA since my GPA is 3.8/3.5? What if I can raise my science GPA to a 3.6 by the end of the spring term? Or should I just give up on the idea of getting into an allopathic school in California and focus on getting into the 2 osteopathic school in CA?

I understand the point of view that applying outside of CA will greatly increase my chances of getting into med school, but if my ultimate goal is to attend residency and then practice in CA, won't it benefit me to attend medical school in California? If I were to attend a middle tier allopathic school in another part of the country wouldn't it be more difficult to gain entrance into a California residency than if I were to have attended medical school (even a DO school) in California?

The challenge lies not in your GPA, but rather in the enormity of the competition from >5000 mostly over-qualified CA applicants plus all the applicants from OOS who share your interest in attending school in CA. It may not be impossible, but it's very unlikely unless you are a stand out on several levels. Maybe you are.

As has already been mentioned, the most important factors to residency directors are Step 1 scores, clinical grades, and the interview (for those invited). State of origin has little influence on them.