advice on DC programs

[zahulio]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Anyone have any inside info on either George Wash or Georgetown IM programs? I need to figure out whether or not I should interview at those programs. I haven't heard many positive comments about either program. One of the criticisms I've heard is that these programs have money problems....apparently Georgetown almost had to declare bankruptcy at one point.

Any info/advice is appreciated.

 

[Da Vinci2]

Yes, both had money problems in the past and medstar (a health organiztion of some kind) bought out both of them if I remember right. GW has a new hopsital so thats a good sign. GT I am not sure. They both probably need a few more years before they stabilize and see how they turn out. My advisor suggested that I reconsider going to those programs. But if you really need to be at DC, they those are the choices you are stuck with.

 

[zahulio]

Any GW or GT students/residents/attendings/administration care to comment on the programs?

 

[bartholomew]

Da Vinci,

So your advisor suggested you reconsider interviewing at GW and GT because of their financial troubles alone? Did he state any concerns about the quality of training at either institution?

 

[Da Vinci2]

Well, my advisor knew more about GT than GW. The situation is that GT had (has?) money problems, which is one of the incentive for the faculty to leave. A few years ago when I was applying, I did know that faculties were leaving the hospital. I don't know about that now. This in turn relected on the resident training. This is one aspect of GT that needs to be put into consideration. Another one is that if GT is still in financial trouble, the last thing you want is out of work in the middle of residency and have to scramble to other programs.

 

[bartholomew]

Gotcha. Thanks for the input Da Vinici. Ciao.

 

[ckent]

I just scheduled my GW today. If you are going to schedule GW, you should probably do so soon since all of their december dates were already full when I tried to schedule.

 

[Mav]

Georgetown is in trouble. There was a good reason they didn't match last year. It's a dump with no money. This past summer, Georgetown LOST cardiothoracic surgery which means there is NO interventional cath at GT. Basically, if you have a heart attack at Georgetown, you are helicoptered out to an outside hospital. Worse, the two "name" attendings in cardiology just announced defection to GW. The previous "name" attending left a year ago for WHC.

GW has a new hospital and is probably the stronger medical center. The IM programs are equal in strength, I would say. But, GW is on the rise whereas GT is going down. In a few years GW will be stronger than GT.

 

[ckent]

That's funny about GT. I met a GT student on the interview trail who tried to tell me how great the IM program at GT was. Then I asked him if he was planning on matching there, and he said no, because he'd prefer to be somewhere else. I did end up scheduling my interview at GT though, mainly because a resident told me that they were serving a great lunch while he was there. Who knows, maybe it is a nice hospital otherwise. I'm not into cardiology, so them not doing interventional stuff doesn't bother me.

 

[Mav]

Ckent.. I'm like you, not interested in Cardiology. But, it speaks a little to the strength of a program when you can be at an academic center in a major city and not see caths at your home hospital. There's not much good to that.

I'm thinking about GI, so the other pertinent thing for me is that GT also lost half of their GI fellowship spots this past academic year (down to 2 per year now).

That said, it never hurts to visit a place. And, a nice, free lunch is as good a reason as any make a pit stop. I rotated there for an elective and can confirm, objectively, that it's a dump. The people are very nice, and the residents are happy and not overworked (at least on elective). The students are well trained. The proximity to downtown DC is great.

But, it's a pretty antiquated place with no PACS, a DOS based computer system (no kidding), and the lowest resident salary in the Baltimore/DC area. The radiology departement is unbelievable. It's a little room with these old, 30 year old x-ray machines where you push a foot pedal and a John Deere tractor sounding motor cranks the X-rays around. You have to talk louder until your X-ray rolls around. It's so funny.

But, all kidding aside, there's simply nothing in the way of perks. I know you can't let physical plant dictate your rank list, but it's a pretty weak physical plant, and there are other, real reasons to downgrade GT. It says a lot that I liked the attendings, house officers, etc. as much as I did, but couldn't imagine residency there. GT may turn it around one day, but the word is interventional cath will not return b/c of financial reasons with the parent company, and there's simply no money to renovate the place. So for bottom line purposes, what you see now is what you get for our residency years. If a GT renaissance occurs, it's after our time. And the near future is negtive, not positive.

I'm not even interviewing.

DC is a good enough city to warrant the trip, but look hard at what you're buying into for 3 years.

Good luck..

 

[bartholomew]

Sounds like I may be cutting DC out of my travel plans....

 

[Seawolf]

Anyone knows if there are FMG's in either GT or GW?

 

[bartholomew]

I have yet to hear anything positive about Georgetown. In fact, I went to my first interview in New York on Friday and the PD specifically advised me to be weary of programs in financial distress, (such as Georgetown, "if" that is the case), and a U of Maryland grad/DC native there told me that living in DC on a residents salary would be tough. Given this, I'm considering cutting out DC altogether. On Scutwork, there is a favorable review of the Washington Hospital, stating it is better than both Georgetown or George Washington...could any one from the DC area or someone who has already interviewed in DC corroborate this review or provide their input on this matter. Should DC remain on my list of cities to consider?

 

[nymed32]

I can't comment on Washington Hospital Center, but I can definitely echo what you've heard about GT. Talked to my PD the other day and he said to not even go unless I needed to live in that area (which I don't) He specifically talked about the financial trouble they're in and the fact that they've been making cuts in a number of IM progams. THere is also a surgery resident from GT med school who told me he would not stay there. He says the hospital is "run down." I'm going to DC for my GW interview, since they have a new hospital which is worth seeing, but afterward I'm heading to Baltimore instead of going to my GT interview. (to visit family, not for a JHU interview unfortunately)

 

[the_wiseguy]

Washington Hospital Center is probably the best bet in the area. They bailed GT out and in turn got a university affiliation. Furthermore, as was stated, CTS has jumped ship from GT to WHC.

 

[nymed32]

Also, if you were wondering, here are the yearly salaries, as per FREIDA

Grad Yr 1 $36360
Grad Yr 2 $37317
Grad Yr 3 $38209
Grad Yr 4 $39833

 

[Scarlet_Fire]

I have interviewed at GW. I am very impressed with the changes that have been made there. The hospital is fantastic, the housestaff facilities on the 6th floor are sufficient. The program is in compliance with RRC regulations. The program's ABIM pass rate has steadily risen over the past few years (from mid 70% to last year 100%), which many housestaff attributed to the Chair and PD's committment to housestaff education. True, at GW, you cover GW Medical Center, the VA, and Holy Cross (a community hospital in Maryland), but some housestaff made mention of tentative plans to expand to Fairfax Hospital in Falls Church, VA in a much more expanded role. The Chair indicated that this may involve the addition of more fellowship positions.

 

[bartholomew]

The salaries for all the DC programs just makes me cringe. My understanding is that DC is an expensive place to live. Anyhow...thank you for the input. I think I'll schedule the DC programs for the end of January and cut them if I need to at the end. I'm streamlining this process so I do not interview at more than 10 places. In fact, I'd like to keep it down to 7 or 8.

 

[AcuraTL]

Just interviewed at GT and GW.

GW is a nice hospital, but it feels very small for an academic center. But, what it's got is definitely very nice. The ICU is the nicest unit I've ever seen. It feels like a place on the go, not there yet, but getting there quickly with a nice new ride (hospital).

GT is definitely the older model. Kind of gloomy, really old looking. The computer system is as previously advertised - DOS. Wow. On the interview day, they sell it to you that Georgetown Hospital doesn't see interventional cath, but the community hospital affiliates do, so you get to see it there. But, from what a friend of mine at GT med says, GT is phasing out of Fairfax, the biggest of the affiliates where most of the caths are being done. And, there's no CCU month at those places, so you don't really get to manage cath patients. The CCU months are still at GT and you basically see CHF, arrythmia, soft rule outs since everything serious goes out the ER to Hospital Center. CCU at GT is very poorly spoken of by insiders.

As far as WHC, it may offer the best clinical experience in DC since their population is the sickest, but when it comes to fellowship time, a communitt hospital can't send you to places like an academic center - even a financially shaky place like GT.

 

[njib]

Originally posted by AcuraTL



As far as WHC, it may offer the best clinical experience in DC since their population is the sickest, but when it comes to fellowship time, a communitt hospital can't send you to places like an academic center - even a financially shaky place like GT.

With that said...which would be the best choice for someone interested in a GI fellowship, but wants a solid IM background....WHC, GT or GWU????

 

[ICUB]

I would say, look elsewhere. My PD also recommended avoiding DC, notably GT because of the money/defection issues. Without question, though, GT or GW would be more successful with fellowship placement as academic centers. You hate to buy into the hearsay about places, but it's hard to ignore that the press is UNIVERSALLY bad about DC, mostly GT's money crunch. If DC were high on my city list, I would probably pick GW just to work in a pleasant hospital with all the high tech goodies.

 

[ckent]

Yeah, GW is nice with their high tech goodies, but it just seems like such a small hospital for DC. Also, their Palm computers with lab access is actually run by medicare, so there's always the possibility of that not being run anymore since they are on an annual contract. I don't know, if you are out of town and have other programs that you have liked so far, now that I have interviewed at both places, I would actually just reccomend avoiding the whole DC trip altogether. It's OK as a day trip in terms of checking a program out, but I would have been sorely dissappointed if I had to fly in to see both of these programs. I also think that GW, according to the faculty who interviewed me, is having it's own financial problems. They must give the faculty and house staff at GT drugs before interviewees arrive or something, because I have yet to see a group of people so happy to sell their program. It was really difficult to get an accurate read there. Case in point, one of my interviewers was an invasive cardiologist, who tried telling me what a great program that they had even though they could no longer do interventional stuff there, but then I found out from an intern that he and several of the other cardiology staff were going to be leaving the hospital soon. I don't think that's good, when you are still having faculty members who are leaving still conducting interviews.

 

[njib]

Ckent(or anyone else)-aside from the size, what did you not like about GW?

 

[ckent]

Well, I just had the most peculiar interview while I was there. One of their faculty just completely ragged on the place during my interview, so much to the point that I wondered if I should start arguing against her because she was so busy tearing the school down. It was actually kind of funny. She asked me where else I was applying, and when I told her, she was like "oh yes, well those are all excellent schools. You would be really happy there". And then she kept on going on and on about how they were having trouble complying with 80 hr work week, how it was really adversely effecting their education, and how their hospital was in dire financial straits. The only positive thing she really seemed to have to say about their school was that they were doing better the Georgetown, financially. That kind of turned me off about the school too, everybody just seemed like "well, it's bad here, but at least we're not Georgetown". I actually thought about going up to one of the chief residents and telling him that this faculty member was *extremely* negative about GW. Who knows though, maybe she didn't want me to go there.

 

[ICUB]

Ha!! I had very similar feelings/experiences.

The interesting thing is that while GW did seem small to me, it's actually bigger than GT. Georgetown is physically larger, but it's only about a 300 bed hospital. The rest of the space is unused - if you noticed on the tour, the call rooms were actually an old floor that just isn't open.


Like I said, and agree with the others, enjoy the monuments.. but know where the airports are.