Advice on if I should even apply please.

[n8989]

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I am planning to apply in June 2012 to start in August 2013.

A little about me:

I am a Canadian student at the University of Toronto completing my BSc in Neuroscience and Psychology. I am completing my fifth year (taking the english and physics I needed for dental school).
GPA is 3.26 at the moment, hopefully I can raise it after this semester to 3.3.
Science GPA is 3.0

DAT scores: perceptual, 17, math 15, reading 22, biology 18, chemisty 18, organic chemistry 23, Total science: 19 and Academic average 19
I pan to rewrite the DAT in a few months to hopefully get all 20s as I realize my math and biology/chemistry are low.

I have been shadowing a dentist. I have no research experience, but I do have many volunteer experiences and I have been working as a tutor for 5 years.
My reference letters are not outstanding, however they aren't weak either.

Considering I apply in June (the earliest date possible) and I get 20s on my DAT, with a GPA of 3.3 and sciGPA of 3.0, what are my chances at private schools such as NYU, USC etc. ?
Should I not apply? I know it is very competitive to get into dental school and I don't know how to strengthen my application. Raising my GPA is a little late now. I do want to try this year and try to strengthen this application the most I can. Do you have any suggestions/advice? And is it worth applying with these scores/GPAs/extracurriculars?

 

[omnipoDent]

I am planning to apply in June 2012 to start in August 2013.

A little about me:

I am a Canadian student at the University of Toronto completing my BSc in Neuroscience and Psychology. I am completing my fifth year (taking the english and physics I needed for dental school).
GPA is 3.26 at the moment, hopefully I can raise it after this semester to 3.3.
Science GPA is 3.0

DAT scores: perceptual, 17, math 15, reading 22, biology 18, chemisty 18, organic chemistry 23, Total science: 19 and Academic average 19
I pan to rewrite the DAT in a few months to hopefully get all 20s as I realize my math and biology/chemistry are low.

I have been shadowing a dentist. I have no research experience, but I do have many volunteer experiences and I have been working as a tutor for 5 years.
My reference letters are not outstanding, however they aren't weak either.

Considering I apply in June (the earliest date possible) and I get 20s on my DAT, with a GPA of 3.3 and sciGPA of 3.0, what are my chances at private schools such as NYU, USC etc. ?
Should I not apply? I know it is very competitive to get into dental school and I don't know how to strengthen my application. Raising my GPA is a little late now. I do want to try this year and try to strengthen this application the most I can. Do you have any suggestions/advice? And is it worth applying with these scores/GPAs/extracurriculars?

In my opinion, your chances are slim as an international with a 3.0 sGPA and a 19. I would apply to two or three schools like NYU and USC (like you said). I would also include Boston University, BU, in there. I would go into this cycle with the idea that you will not get in and that you're preparing for the next cycle after that. I would begin taking science classes this summer to try to raise that sGPA. That way, if I'm wrong and you get in no harm no foul, but if you don't then you will not have spent much on applications this cycle and will have a gpa that will make you a much more competitive applicant in that next cycle. I would shoot for the 20 on the DAT as well. Best of luck.

 

[predent2301]

If this is really what you want then go for it. I would recommend really working hard to do well on the DAT. It takes a long time for anyone to increase their gpa, but you can significantly improve your DAT by putting in a few months of hard work. After you get 20s on your DAT you have a low chance of getting in, but this does not mean its impossible. People with lower stats do get accepted (obviously not that often, but they do). In addition to doing well on the DAT, you can apply to post-bac programs in the US (these programs are geared towards people in your situation) or just take upper level science courses at UofT for the summer/next year. At the same time, you should also have a plan B ready. Just in case this doesn't work out, you don't want to find yourself in a situation where you don't know what the next step is.

 

[n8989]

Thanks, I plan to apply to a Masters in Biology/Neuroscience as well just in case I dont get in. However, I've heard that a masters gpa is not as important as the gpa you earn during your undergrad... is that so? And I've already spent 5 years at U of T, I really want to move on to at least a masters or a graduate level program (I feel doing a bachelors for 6-7 years would not be going forwards)... I am not sure.

 

[n8989]

ALSO, America doesn't consider my BSc in Neuroscience and Psychology as fully science. U of T considers the psychology courses I took as NONscience courses (there are also art programs for psychology but mine are part of a a science program). My neuroscience and psychology courses go hand in hand... however, AADSAS doesn't count ANY of my psychology courses (PSY) as science... Some of my neuroscience courses are labelled PSY as well and they fully science based courses yet it seems that I am at a disadvantage here for my sciGPA according to how AADSAS calculates it. How can I deal with this issue? Or am I helpless?

 

[lululime]

In my opinion, your chances are slim as an international with a 3.0 sGPA and a 19. I would apply to two or three schools like NYU and USC (like you said). I would also include Boston University, BU, in there. I would go into this cycle with the idea that you will not get in and that you're preparing for the next cycle after that. I would begin taking science classes this summer to try to raise that sGPA. That way, if I'm wrong and you get in no harm no foul, but if you don't then you will not have spent much on applications this cycle and will have a gpa that will make you a much more competitive applicant in that next cycle. I would shoot for the 20 on the DAT as well. Best of luck.

BU really only considers students with minimum GPA of 3.3. You would have a better chance of doing a masters I think. A high masters GPA can offset a low GPA. But only go this route if you are confident/determined to do well! You definitely need to raise those DAT scores.

 

[omnipoDent]

BU really only considers students with minimum GPA of 3.3. You would have a better chance of doing a masters I think. A high masters GPA can offset a low GPA. But only go this route if you are confident/determined to do well! You definitely need to raise those DAT scores.

I have seen that, but I assumed it was 3.3 oGPA overall. As he had that, and was shooting for the 20 I also thought BU looks for, I thought he should think about applying. I think the 3.0 sgpa will hurt the OP's chances, though.

Also, the OP has since said they have spent 5 years at University of Toronto, so it may be difficult to raise that sGPA. I also understand the want to move on to graduate courses, as the OP said he would like to do, so the masters and retaking the DAT may be the best bet.

 

[JdogDMD]

Uphill battle my friend. Good luck!

 

[omnipoDent]

come to think of it if she's a 50/50 neuro/psych major, half if not more of her courses would be non science wouldn't it? so raising that science gpa might not be that hard?

n8989, do you have any idea how many of your credits will count as science courses?

 

[n8989]

So I have 13 chem/bio courses so far, and I am taking 4 biology courses this semester. Each course is 0.5 credits, and if I consider physics and calculus as well, altogether I have about 8 credits in Science so far. The rest are psychology or neuropsych courses with PSY as the course code.

 

[n8989]

You guys are awesome for considering my situation and taking the time to help out. Much appreciated 🙂 Thank you.

 

[n8989]

you're not the first one who's complained about this and i don't think there's anything you can do unfortunately

americans tend to not think of psychs as sciency as we do

idk if you're downtown or not, but for something like psy240, which was basically just reading the dsm out loud for a whole semester, you can sorta see where they're comign from

now for something bio heavy like 397, ya i feel your pain

other than that it'd be best if you raise your dats and apply in june

I agree that some psychology courses, especially introductory ones are just reading the DSM/regurgitating facts about disorders. But some of my courses are not like that at all and are still not considered as science. As an example, this particular course I took has a PSY course code... However, it was heavily biology-based. And I do not find it fair that it is not considered a science for my sciGPA..

Human Brain and Behaviour
The neurological basis of human behaviour: an introduction to human neuro-psychology. Hemispheric specialization, diseases of the central nervous system, behavioural consequences of damage to each of the cortical lobes, speech disorders, psychopharmacology and the biological basis of psychiatric disorders will be covered.

But I guess I can't really show course descriptions to AADSAS or dental schools. Oh well. I feel its a shame that my sciGPA is suffering because of this.. and had I known, I could have done a double major in neuroscience and biology rather than neuro and psych.

 

[MAdental]

If you want honest opinion, I dont think you should apply . The money you are gona spend on schools can be spent on taking courses .But The thing is you have taken so many courses so far in ur undergrad that it will take forever to raise that gpa up to a 3.5 .
You should definitely start a MSc . But then almost all Canadian schools offer thesis based MSc which won't help your GPA .
So I would suggest taking classes to raise ur GPAs up to 3.4-3.5 ( this will take some time and hard work) then do a masters. It is hard and this will take years but YOU can do it if you really wana be a dentist !!! Others have done this before so can you

 

[n8989]

If you want honest opinion, I dont think you should apply . The money you are gona spend on schools can be spent on taking courses .But The thing is you have taken so many courses so far in ur undergrad that it will take forever to raise that gpa up to a 3.5 .
You should definitely start a MSc . But then almost all Canadian schools offer thesis based MSc which won't help your GPA .
So I would suggest taking classes to raise ur GPAs up to 3.4-3.5 ( this will take some time and hard work) then do a masters. It is hard and this will take years but YOU can do it if you really wana be a dentist !!! Others have done this before so can you

It WILL take forever, I mean to raise my GPA up by even one grade point requires all 4.0s in many courses. I'm considering applying to masters programs in the event that I don't get into dental school for the coming year. It's the best I can do for now I guess. Taking more undergraduate courses also costs a lot while doing a masters gives you a stipend.. so there's the money factor as well.

 

[MAdental]

Ya , I am trying to figure this out for myself too . My GPAs after 4 years r 3.5 , I don't know if I should do more courses or a MSc ?? I really wana do a thesis based masters but I am
Not sure If my GPA is good enough ....I wish we had more course based MSc in Canada .

 

[n8989]

Ya , I am trying to figure this out for myself too . My GPAs after 4 years r 3.5 , I don't know if I should do more courses or a MSc ?? I really wana do a thesis based masters but I am
Not sure If my GPA is good enough ....I wish we had more course based MSc in Canada .

From what I've learned so far, a 3.5 GPA is great, as long as you have DAT scores above 19 at the least; you want 20s+

I think if you have that, you've definitely got a chance. I would say that you should apply and IF it doesn't work out, apply for a masters anyway. That's how I plan to do it.

And it does suck, there's very few programs for course-based masters, and the few that do exist, are extremely competitive.

 

[predent2301]

you're not the first one who's complained about this and i don't think there's anything you can do unfortunately

americans tend to not think of psychs as sciency as we do

idk if you're downtown or not, but for something like psy240, which was basically just reading the dsm out loud for a whole semester, you can sorta see where they're comign from

now for something bio heavy like 397, ya i feel your pain

other than that it'd be best if you raise your dats and apply in june

This is explains why during one of my interviews a guy asked "did everyone here do a science degree?" and one of the girls said "No, I did psych." I was sitting there all confused and questioning her intelligence. It makes sense now.

n8989, what Biology masters programs are you planning to apply to, I might be interested too lol (I'm assuming you're applying to programs in Canada)

 

[MAdental]

Thanks for the advice lol I Hijacjed this thread . Let's see what others think about ur situation. I hope everything workouts for you

 

[MAdental]

This is explains why during one of my interviews a guy asked "did everyone here do a science degree?" and one of the girls said "No, I did psych." I was sitting there all confused and questioning her intelligence. It makes sense now.

n8989, what Biology masters programs are you planning to apply to, I might be interested too lol (I'm assuming you're applying to programs in Canada)

Hahaha . Ya us ignorant hardcore biologist dont see psych as a science . Infact after my first psych prof referred to psychology as a science , my friend and I thought he was talking non sense . 🙂 most of psych classes have bio in them , I don't know shy addsas doesn't recognize them as science courses .