Advice on Master's Programs

[10guagesyringe]

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I really am confused as to what I am going to do to gain admission to a medical school. All I know is that I will somehow someway.

I often hear different advice regarding masters programs and my simple question is this:

If I were to enter a Didactic Masters Program in Biological Nutrition at a UC school and performed very well, and also scored an MCAT of above thirty ( I scored 27 the first time)

Would attending a Masters program help off set poor performance in undergrad?

I should add that my Undergrad Cum GPA is a 3.0 and a science GPA of 2.7.

I had to work several jobs during my undergrad career to qualify for continued health insurance. However, after obtaining insurance I have held a 3.7 overall GPA and a 3.4 sci GPA in the last 60 units of my college career.

I have two first author publications based on my own research with dietary fatty acids and cancer

I have extensive clinical volunteer and research experience as well.

That being said...

If I were to enroll in a Masters and did well would it help off set undergrad performance, or am I just doomed for the Caribbean?

Will doing well in a masters even show up in the so called "first cut" medical schools make in applications?

I have heard such mix reactions towards masters programs, some say they will help, some say they wont, some say they will even hurt.

So please, help me.

thank you in advance,

10guage-

 

[camaras2480]

I really am confused as to what I am going to do to gain admission to a medical school. All I know is that I will somehow someway.

I often hear different advice regarding masters programs and my simple question is this:

If I were to enter a Didactic Masters Program in Biological Nutrition at a UC school and performed very well, and also scored an MCAT of above thirty ( I scored 27 the first time)

Would attending a Masters program help off set poor performance in undergrad?

I should add that my Undergrad Cum GPA is a 3.0 and a science GPA of 2.7.

I had to work several jobs during my undergrad career to qualify for continued health insurance. However, after obtaining insurance I have held a 3.7 overall GPA and a 3.4 sci GPA in the last 60 units of my college career.

I have two first author publications based on my own research with dietary fatty acids and cancer

I have extensive clinical volunteer and research experience as well.

That being said...

If I were to enroll in a Masters and did well would it help off set undergrad performance, or am I just doomed for the Caribbean?

Will doing well in a masters even show up in the so called "first cut" medical schools make in applications?

I have heard such mix reactions towards masters programs, some say they will help, some say they wont, some say they will even hurt.

So please, help me.

thank you in advance,

10guage-

You need to enroll not in any Masters, but in an SMP. SMP programs are high risk, high reward. If you do well, and by well I mean 3.7+, with a good MCAT (30+, preferably 32+) you will have a good shot at some US allopathic schools. If you do poorly, and poorly in your case is 3.4 or lower, you will be in trouble.

Also keep in mind that some schools may screen you because your undergrad science GPA is below 3.0, regardless of how you perform in the SMP.

 

[cornpops21]

To answer your bolded question, yes. However, you need to approach the application for a masters program as if it were med school. That being said, it would be very hard to gain admission to a masters with a 2.7 sgpa. I would try some post-bacc classes to raise that sgpa over 3.0. If you decide to go ahead and apply to masters programs and gain admission, then it's your chance to prove to med schools that you can handle the work. It's a double-edged sword, though. It's a golden opportunity, but if you screw it up, you could ruin your chances for med school altogether.

 

[redsquareblack]

To answer your bolded question, yes. However, you need to approach the application for a masters program as if it were med school. That being said, it would be very hard to gain admission to a masters with a 2.7 sgpa. I would try some post-bacc classes to raise that sgpa over 3.0. If you decide to go ahead and apply to masters programs and gain admission, then it's your chance to prove to med schools that you can handle the work. It's a double-edged sword, though. It's a golden opportunity, but if you screw it up, you could ruin your chances for med school altogether.

2.7 sgpa? No problem. I was around there when I applied to the BUSM GMS program. Left with a 4.0. It's doable, if you're willing to bust ass for it.

 

[cornpops21]

2.7 sgpa? No problem. I was around there when I applied to the BUSM GMS program. Left with a 4.0. It's doable, if you're willing to bust ass for it.

I'm sure you can get in with a 2.7. But there's probably some schools that may see it as a red flag.

 

[10guagesyringe]

I am utterly willing and capable of busting my ass.

I just am so frustrated at this point because I did apply to a post-bac program but was not accepted.

However, I am 85 to 90 percent sure I will be admitted to a masters in Biological Nutrition at UC and I will be using open enrollment to sign up for some additional upper division biological sciences classes to take along with the courses required for my masters degree.

So I guess the majority rule is that a masters degree would help.

thank you very much everyone

ten gauge-

 

[cornpops21]

I am utterly willing and capable of busting my ass.

I just am so frustrated at this point because I did apply to a post-bac program but was not accepted.

However, I am 85 to 90 percent sure I will be admitted to a masters in Biological Nutrition at UC and I will be using open enrollment to sign up for some additional upper division biological sciences classes to take along with the courses required for my masters degree.

So I guess the majority rule is that a masters degree would help.

thank you very much everyone

ten gauge-

Good luck!

 

[camaras2480]

I am utterly willing and capable of busting my ass.

I just am so frustrated at this point because I did apply to a post-bac program but was not accepted.

However, I am 85 to 90 percent sure I will be admitted to a masters in Biological Nutrition at UC and I will be using open enrollment to sign up for some additional upper division biological sciences classes to take along with the courses required for my masters degree.

So I guess the majority rule is that a masters degree would help.

thank you very much everyone

ten gauge-

I don't know what a masters in bio nut at UC is - make SURE it is an SMP. if it is just any old masters, you arent proving anything to anyone. SMPs are designed so that you take medical school courses with medical school students. Only SMPs have this opportunity, and this is your best opportunity to prove you are capable of handling med school coursework.

As always, we are glad to help. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.

And good luck!

 

[rHinO1]

If the goal is to be a doctor, then I would consider taking some time to retake classes and apply D.O. If you retake some classes and raise your grades you can be very competitive, probably in less time than it will take to get a master's degree. If you do get a master's it will still be difficult to go the M.D. route.

 

[10guagesyringe]

the graduate advisor i spoke with referred me to several potential professors I could work with.

Several of them noted that they have had several students work in their labs who had lower than competitive GPA's in undergrad and eventually went on to gain admission at UC Medical schools

While the Masters program might not be an SMP technically, is it not also helpful if the masters program is full of upperdivision graduate level Biological Science courses?

Also, while a student I plan to register for open enrollment and take some additional upper division science classes.

I am under the impression that I have to prove to add comms that I am capable of handling medical school curriculum, and I think that completing a masters with a high level of scientific coursework would do so?

i may be wrong...

thanks for the support guys, you are undoubtley the best

tengauge-

 

[camaras2480]

the graduate advisor i spoke with referred me to several potential professors I could work with.

Several of them noted that they have had several students work in their labs who had lower than competitive GPA's in undergrad and eventually went on to gain admission at UC Medical schools

While the Masters program might not be an SMP technically, is it not also helpful if the masters program is full of upperdivision graduate level Biological Science courses?

Also, while a student I plan to register for open enrollment and take some additional upper division science classes.

I am under the impression that I have to prove to add comms that I am capable of handling medical school curriculum, and I think that completing a masters with a high level of scientific coursework would do so?

i may be wrong...

thanks for the support guys, you are undoubtley the best

tengauge-

Unfortunately, the SMP is the only real proof. High level science courses are nice, but are not quite as intense, rigorous, and competitive as sitting in with med school courses. Don't get me wrong - a 4.0 in a non-SMP masters is nice, and sure it could help a bit. But a 4.0 at an SMP speaks volumes.

 

[tpjunkie]

My undergrad cum was a 3.100, bpms was 2.964, and my MCAT, taken only once, during my senior year was a 34. I applied to and was accepted into the MS/MBS program at UMDNJ in Newark, fairly easily (I assume anyway, the application was processed and accepted within two months or so, plus I was given the green light to take a med school class that fall). My grad school gpa at the time I was applying to med school was a 3.68 (final is a 3.77) and I got into med school, so as long as you work hard and apply yourself you should be ok. My grade in the med school Biochem and genetics course I took was a B+, which is considered by NJMS at least to be a "good" grade, as well as exempting you from taking it as a first year if you so choose. It may have hurt me a bit at other schools though, since the 3.5 it contributed to my gpa was for a monsterous 7 credits, making it a bit of a drag.

 

[plzhelpme]

Originally Posted by redsquareblack
2.7 sgpa? No problem. I was around there when I applied to the BUSM GMS program. Left with a 4.0. It's doable, if you're willing to bust ass for it


Firstly, what does BUSM GMS program stand for? I also wanted to ask anyone if they could help me in my situation. I am about to be a senior in undergrad and I am thinking about retaking gen chem my last year because of a low grade and then the summer after I graduate to retake orgo at my state university to improve my overall science gpa. Therefore, I would have the core sciences with the lower ones retaken along with the many bio classes included in my sgpa as I am a bio major. After calculating my science gpa (if I make A's in the retaken and senior year science classes) the highest I could probably make is 3.3 for my sgpa. Is this enough if I do well on the MCAT to apply to med school and get in? If so what MCAT score do I need? Or do I not have a good chance and need to try to do a smp to raise it even more? MY HOPE IS TO JUST WORK AND RAISE MONEY SO THAT I CAN RETAKE THE SCIENCES I DIDNT DO SO WELL IN AT A STATE SCHOOL AFTER I GRADUATE AND THEN TAKE A MCAT CLASS TO PREPARE FOR THE MCAT WITHOUT HAVING TO FIND MORE MONEY FOR A SMP. (ALTHOUGH I WANT THE BEST SHOT AT GETTING ACCEPTED I HAVE TO BE REALISTIC AND THINK ABOUT THE MONEY AS WELL!!)


WHAT DO YOU GUYS RECOMMEND? GO FOR RETAKING LOW SCIENCES TO SHOW DETERMINATION AND IMPROVEMENT AND THEN APPLY TO MED SCHOOL OR TRY TO APPLY TO SMP AFTER RETAKING AND THEN APPLY?


WHICH WOULD BE THE BEST FOR ACCEPTANCE??



THANKS SO MUCH!!

 

[camaras2480]

If you don't get at least like 35, I think you may be SMP bound.
BUSM GMS is the Masters of Arts in Medical Science (MAMS) program offered by the Division of Graduate Medical Sciences (GMS) at Boston University School of Medicine (BUSM). It is one of the two best-established and successful SMPs (Special Masters Program(s)).

Originally Posted by redsquareblack
2.7 sgpa? No problem. I was around there when I applied to the BUSM GMS program. Left with a 4.0. It's doable, if you're willing to bust ass for it


Firstly, what does BUSM GMS program stand for? I also wanted to ask anyone if they could help me in my situation. I am about to be a senior in undergrad and I am thinking about retaking gen chem my last year because of a low grade and then the summer after I graduate to retake orgo at my state university to improve my overall science gpa. Therefore, I would have the core sciences with the lower ones retaken along with the many bio classes included in my sgpa as I am a bio major. After calculating my science gpa (if I make A's in the retaken and senior year science classes) the highest I could probably make is 3.3 for my sgpa. Is this enough if I do well on the MCAT to apply to med school and get in? If so what MCAT score do I need? Or do I not have a good chance and need to try to do a smp to raise it even more? MY HOPE IS TO JUST WORK AND RAISE MONEY SO THAT I CAN RETAKE THE SCIENCES I DIDNT DO SO WELL IN AT A STATE SCHOOL AFTER I GRADUATE AND THEN TAKE A MCAT CLASS TO PREPARE FOR THE MCAT WITHOUT HAVING TO FIND MORE MONEY FOR A SMP. (ALTHOUGH I WANT THE BEST SHOT AT GETTING ACCEPTED I HAVE TO BE REALISTIC AND THINK ABOUT THE MONEY AS WELL!!)


WHAT DO YOU GUYS RECOMMEND? GO FOR RETAKING LOW SCIENCES TO SHOW DETERMINATION AND IMPROVEMENT AND THEN APPLY TO MED SCHOOL OR TRY TO APPLY TO SMP AFTER RETAKING AND THEN APPLY?


WHICH WOULD BE THE BEST FOR ACCEPTANCE??



THANKS SO MUCH!!

 

[redsquareblack]

If you don't get at least like 35, I think you may be SMP bound.
BUSM GMS is the Masters of Arts in Medical Science (MAMS) program offered by the Division of Graduate Medical Sciences (GMS) at Boston University School of Medicine (BUSM). It is one of the two best-established and successful SMPs (Special Masters Program(s)).

Correct. I forget that people around here call it MAMS, which we rarely ever did. The question "You a GMS-er?" was usually taken to mean MAMS.

In answer to the fellow who said it would be better and more time-effective to go back and retake courses rather than pursue a masters degree: I disagree, to the extent that

1. The best you can do is raise your undergraduate GPA only modestly. Not that the OP has any F's on his/her transcript, but assuming he/she did, an F followed by an A on a retake is only a C for the class.
2. If the OP will have already graduated, then his/her transcript is considered "posted". I.e., unalterable by retaking classes.
3. The Boston University program, which is the only one with which I'm intimately familiar, can be done in under a year.

 

[hewmanoid]

No matter what you do at this point (SMP, traditional post bacc..etc), you won't be able to raise your undergrad GPAs significantly because a lot of these programs are only a year long, not enough time to take a substantial number of classes. However, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't enroll in one of those programs. In fact, these programs can be a great way to demonstrate your academic aptitude contrary to your rather poor undergrad performance (assuming you'll do well in the program). If you're going to be in SMP or other similar programs, you should also try to get 34+ on MCAT. I think these two things will definitely help you offset your undergrad GPAs, and getting into a U.S. allopathic school will be more than a possiblity for you. Good luck!

 

[plzhelpme]

answer to the fellow who said it would be better and more time-effective to go back and retake courses rather than pursue a masters degree: I disagree, to the extent that

1. The best you can do is raise your undergraduate GPA only modestly. Not that the OP has any F's on his/her transcript, but assuming he/she did, an F followed by an A on a retake is only a C for the class.
2. If the OP will have already graduated, then his/her transcript is considered "posted". I.e., unalterable by retaking classes.
3. The Boston University program, which is the only one with which I'm intimately familiar, can be done in under a year.

But even if i do retake classes after i graduate don't med schools look at all transcripts from every school? so if i were to have those grades for undergrad but decided to invest money and time into retaking what i didn't do so well in won't they still take it into consideration as drive and improvement and are these grades not calculated as well into your undergrad gpa (like post-bacc and smps' gpa's are?)
Also, does the smp you recommened require a gre or mcat score (which i have not taken either) and what is a competitive gpa for them?




thanks

 

[rHinO1]

Correct. I forget that people around here call it MAMS, which we rarely ever did. The question "You a GMS-er?" was usually taken to mean MAMS.

In answer to the fellow who said it would be better and more time-effective to go back and retake courses rather than pursue a masters degree: I disagree, to the extent that

1. The best you can do is raise your undergraduate GPA only modestly. Not that the OP has any F's on his/her transcript, but assuming he/she did, an F followed by an A on a retake is only a C for the class.
2. If the OP will have already graduated, then his/her transcript is considered "posted". I.e., unalterable by retaking classes.
3. The Boston University program, which is the only one with which I'm intimately familiar, can be done in under a year.

1.) With a sGPA of 2.7 and a cGPA of 3.0 it may be difficult to get into an SMP. SMP's are typically for people who are borderline, those GPA's are sub-borderline. Also, as was stated by someone else earlier SMP's are high risk, high reward. With a weaker science background it will be extremely difficult to excel (3.7+) in that environment. If the OP does poorly they will be putting the nail in their medical school coffin.

2.) Even after completion of an SMP the OP will still have to apply with the same undergraduate cGPA and sGPA which will still be well below average.

3.) UC is on the west coast, so I'm assuming the OP is also. BU is on the east coast, so on top of the expensive SMP there will be a cross country move involved.

4.) With low stats there is no indication the OP will score a 34+ as suggested earlier. 34+ is not easy to obtain.

5.) With the OP's stats it is time to be realistic. If they truly want to be a doctor then the best option is to go D.O. If they retake classes, then D.O. schools will only consider the higher grade of the retake in calculating their cGPA and sGPA. This is probably the only way they are going to make their GPA competitive in a reasonable amount of time.

If I was in the OP's current position I would consider the D.O. route the best way for me to become a doctor.

 

[camaras2480]

1.) With a sGPA of 2.7 and a cGPA of 3.0 it may be difficult to get into an SMP. SMP's are typically for people who are borderline, those GPA's are sub-borderline. Also, as was stated by someone else earlier SMP's are high risk, high reward. With a weaker science background it will be extremely difficult to excel (3.7+) in that environment. If the OP does poorly they will be putting the nail in their medical school coffin.

2.) Even after completion of an SMP the OP will still have to apply with the same undergraduate cGPA and sGPA which will still be well below average.

3.) UC is on the west coast, so I'm assuming the OP is also. BU is on the east coast, so on top of the expensive SMP there will be a cross country move involved.

4.) With low stats there is no indication the OP will score a 34+ as suggested earlier. 34+ is not easy to obtain.

5.) With the OP's stats it is time to be realistic. If they truly want to be a doctor then the best option is to go D.O. If they retake classes, then D.O. schools will only consider the higher grade of the retake in calculating their cGPA and sGPA. This is probably the only way they are going to make their GPA competitive in a reasonable amount of time.

If I was in the OP's current position I would consider the D.O. route the best way for me to become a doctor.

I agree with the above. However, many of us on this forum really want to shoot at an MD, and I think the OP, if he/she has money to spend, should be ambitious and go for the SMP. Whether it be BU, or Gtown, or Cincy - there are several. If you (OP) really want to give it one more shot, a strong SMP with a low-to-mid-30s MCAT will get you into an allopathic medical school. No, it certainly won't be one of the "top tier" schools, but I'm guessing you have already realized that.

Again, repeating - HIGH RISK. If you have even a shade of doubt you will go into this program and get straight Bs, and graduate with a 3.2, your MD will unfortunately remain a dream forever.

As whoever I am quoting said, DO is always an alternative to earning the Dr. before your name.

And to redsquareblack or whoever...yeah I know it is GMS lol, but non-BU affiliates know it as MAMS 🙂

 

[camaras2480]

But even if i do retake classes after i graduate don't med schools look at all transcripts from every school? so if i were to have those grades for undergrad but decided to invest money and time into retaking what i didn't do so well in won't they still take it into consideration as drive and improvement and are these grades not calculated as well into your undergrad gpa (like post-bacc and smps' gpa's are?)
Also, does the smp you recommened require a gre or mcat score (which i have not taken either) and what is a competitive gpa for them?




thanks

numbers like 2.7 sgpa, 3.0 cgpa...or was it the other way around? either way, these make it rather difficult to get into an SMP.

everyone always prefers to see an MCAT. try to land like a high 20s mcat and it should get you into an SMP like BU. just as an example, i know someone at BU who had like 3.07 cGPA from undergrad, and like a 24 MCAT who got into the SMP.

 

[rHinO1]

I agree with the above. However, many of us on this forum really want to shoot at an MD, and I think the OP, if he/she has money to spend, should be ambitious and go for the SMP. Whether it be BU, or Gtown, or Cincy - there are several. If you (OP) really want to give it one more shot, a strong SMP with a low-to-mid-30s MCAT will get you into an allopathic medical school. No, it certainly won't be one of the "top tier" schools, but I'm guessing you have already realized that.

Again, repeating - HIGH RISK. If you have even a shade of doubt you will go into this program and get straight Bs, and graduate with a 3.2, your MD will unfortunately remain a dream forever.

As whoever I am quoting said, DO is always an alternative to earning the Dr. before your name.

And to redsquareblack or whoever...yeah I know it is GMS lol, but non-BU affiliates know it as MAMS 🙂

I understand that most people here, including myself want to go the MD route. However, sometimes life isn't the way you want it to be. At some point you have to play the cards you've been dealt. I don't think it helps people to blow smoke, and push them toward a direction that only provides them a small opportunity for success when a better path is available.

I have been fortunate to work in a surgery department for a top rated hospital for a few years. One of the best and most liked orthopedic surgeons here is a D.O. Also, THE BEST laparoscopic general surgeon we have graduated from an MD school in the carribean. My point is that the difference between MD and DO is something played up by premeds much more than it is by people who actually work in healthcare.

Of course everyone has to make their own decisions about what is best for them. All I'm saying is that if you want to be a doctor the DO route is viable and may be a good fit for the OP.