Advice on Matching into Ophthalmology

[EyesOnThePryze]

Thought I would start a thread where faculty, attendings, residents, and the fortunately matched can give general advice to the next generation. It would be a great place to consolidate general advice, tips and pointers.

I think it would have been useful for me this past season, instead of me having to search through and browsing the entire subforum.

I'll start.

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[EyesOnThePryze]

Learn from some of my mistakes and experiences:

Do what you need to do to get those clerkship grades sky high. It will make a big difference and is worth it. I gave up a bit on my last clerkship (OBGYN) and got a satisfactory. I regret that. Don't be me.

Be someone at the interview that faculty could see themselves getting along with. Other side of the coin, don't be fake. It's pretty obvious you're a tool when you are only to talking to residents/faculty and ignoring all other applicants when the people from the program aren't in the room.

Get your app in ON TIME. There is really no excuse not to. The opening date is not a surprise. I got mine in later than I would have liked. Who knows how much more it would have helped. I can tell you it certainly wouldn't have hurt.

Do an away rotation only if you think you are a great rotator, and after any home rotations. A home rotation is typically lower key and you can ask silly questions in a lower stress environment. It really helped my chances when I did an away at a top program despite my mediocre stats. I was invited back for an interview despite that program being notoriously stingy with away rotator invites. No way I would have been there otherwise, as my stats/CV were average and in some respects, below average. On a related note, if you really want to stay at your home program, perhaps do an away first so you will be maximally prepared to shine.

Apply broadly. What is another $30 per program. I got many interviews at random programs and was pleasantly surprised on several of those interview days. In fact, I was extremely pleased to have matched at one of those random programs.

To be contd.

 

[EyesOnThePryze]

Hey Lurkers. I count 152 of you right now having read this thread.

If you like what you see, say so in here. You'll get more people to post tips.

My advice might not be the best, but it's one you can take with a grain of salt. Like you should take with everything you read on here.

 

[ophthope]

Interview Season Tips:

Don't put anything on your app you don't feel comfortable and calm discussing. They're going to ask about things you put on that application so nothing should feel like a curveball to you if it's from there.

Be honest and open in interviews. Sometimes the "wrong" answer is okay. If you're asked a personal weakness try giving a real, honest weakness. I found that being 'real' with those tough questions was respected. And if you get challenged about an answer, then you can figure out how to play spin artist and turn it into a positive. But overall I feel like just being yourself and being honest helps and went over well.

Talk to as many residents as you can, they're all going to sit in a room with attendings and talk about who they liked to rank you pretty much immediately after you leave at most places. It won't be in a judgmental way from what I have heard, but it just plain helps for more than one resident to have spoken with you because when they hold up your picture multiple people can say "he/she was pleasant to talk to."

TAKE NOTES right after each interview day or pre-interview dinner, because you WILL forget most things by the end of this.

And try to make it to the pre-interview gatherings they can be very informative and give you a chance to meet more residents.

Being personable and cordial is highly regarded. Residents are looking for someone who would be pleasant to work with, and the only way they can judge this is by having a conversation with you. I know many of us aren't social butterflies and that isn't required, but you may need to push out of your comfort zone to be more outgoing in order to make a good impression.

And I think it goes without saying, but don't be late to anything if you can at all avoid it.

Sometimes an away rotation helps you, occasionally it hurts you, and other times it just plain does not factor into the equation of whether or not you will be interviewed AT ALL. If you can get some inside information from current residents about a program before you apply for an away that advice can be helpful. Also do NOT apply to an away rotation unless you know for sure you will take it. So try not apply to multiple at once. Because if you apply to 3 away rotations and get accepted at all 3 but only accept 1 to go on, those other 2 schools are going to remember that you didn't accept their away invitation and you probably aren't going to get an interview invitation from them.

 

[DrZeke]

some tips:

1) Remember that getting an interview does NOT put you on an equal playing field. People like to say that maybe you'll meet applicants on the trail who aren't as personable as you are, but almost everyone I met was well-spoken and fairly likeable during my interaction. The reality is that if you have subpar anything, you're still being compared to people who may be just as charismatic and awesome as you are, but with better credentials. While grades and board scores aren't everything, it's something to keep in mind. The interview is very important, as you see from some feedback on here, but it can't always overcome everything.

2) Getting a certain number of invites indicates you are competitive and most likely will match. Like in that article - ranking 10-11 places gives you a high percentage of matching - though there are exceptions on both ends.

3) Take any feedback you get from an interview or a school with a grain of salt, unless it has SUPER explicit language. Half the time people are just in the moment and are responding to you with excitement. They don't represent a whole committee and people are still going to vote on you in a dark smokey room. That being said, if everyone responds pretty positive to you, you can feel good about yourself...

 

[DrZeke]

Some more tips, from the underdog...:

4) Treat every interview with equal weight. You paid money to be there and you are being given an amazing opportunity. Some places are amazing in the most desirable city, others have facilities that could blow your mind, some it's not so obvious... You will interview at a spread of programs and see all different things that a place has to offer, some more obvious than others. Be excited, enthusiastic, find anything you can to get motivated about.

5) If you rank a place, you could go there. Be prepared for that.

6) When ranking, don't be ridiculous. Ask yourself "would I rather be an ophthalmologist or not match"? or "Would I rather be in X city or not be an ophthalmologist"? Training is an important part of life, but it's not the be all end all. It's 3 years

7) Rank places based on how YOU feel about them. YOU have to live with your decisions. Don't rank a place over another, because it has a better reputation, but you didn't like it. Yes, you want to go to the best program that you can, but you also want to be somewhere that fits well with you. Many programs are great in their own way even if they aren't "ranked". So, unless a program has OBVIOUS deficits, like everyone keeps failing the fellowship match in a specialty you're interested in or they are on probation, consider ranking it how you want.

8) Where there is a will there is a way. I worried about ranking some programs that seemed to be not so awesome. My mentor told me it doesn't matter and that I will get where I want to go. I was EXTREMELY fortunate to match at a fantastic middle tier program with a successful fellowship match and a monster chairman and wonderful faculty, but not everyone is so fortunate. No matter what, you can figure it out. If you worry you can't do ASOPRS, because it's competitive, go and do a 1 year non-accrediated then reapply, or do clinical research with a big wig. I've seen it done and I've seen those people succeed. There is always a way...

Please PM me if you have specific questions and I will be happy to post answers for everyone on here.

 

[EyesOnThePryze]

awesome advice guys. Thanks for sharing!

Future applicants out there... This is good stuff.

 

[dribb11]

For interviews, don't immediately rule out getting a rental car. Many places have very cheap car rentals that would be cheaper and more convenient than getting a taxi. The cost is a drop in the bucket versus trying to figure out public transport in a new city. Also, it's nice to be able to give rides to your potential future co-residents and have a place to store all your junk.

 

[EyesOnThePryze]

Read ophthobook.com before your first rotation. You'll be surprised at how awesome it is at introducing you to the concepts and language important in Ophthalmology.

If you know early on in med school that you want ophtho, contact some faculty and try to hitch onto some research. It really helps you develop relationships and gets you valuable research experience to fill that box in the SF match application.

 

[linevasel]

For Re-applicants:
When you reapply, most programs won't be tipped off that you are a re-applicant (unless you were a memorable applicant or something). But you have to be prepared with an answer to why you think you didn't match. Don't let that question come up in an interview and catch you off guard. When asked don't incriminate yourself or reveal some weakness that wasn't known. But be prepared.

Also Ophthobook.com - Very necessary

 

[linevasel]

On Interviewing – a slightly different perspective.

Be yourself, but be the "energetic enthusiastic" version of yourself. Ophtho has all kinds of people and personalities. I am pretty laid back, and even-keeled. I don't hit highs, and I don't hit lows. That would be me being "myself" in an interview. And I can anticipate for some people, that might slide. But for some of you, that approach will leave your interviewer wholly underwhelmed. But if your stats aren't great, then you kind of need to wow them. Smiles, Energy, Enthusiasm, without being THAT GUY can take you a long long way. Let me quote from Dr. Andrew Lee, (http://studentdoctor.net/2009/08/the-successful-match-interview-with-dr-andrew-lee-ophthalmology/)
He suggests in resident interviews he is in part looking to "elevate the people who look mediocre on paper but are superstars in person (e.g., charismatic, engaging, enthusiastic, well spoken, and passionate)." If that's not yourself, then consider being a different self. If you can turn on the charisma without being a phony, I say go for it!

 

[linevasel]

On the Weakness / personal challenge Question -

I hear Ophthope's answer, but I'd like to offer another perspective. The interviewer gives you wide latitude in this question, but trust me, he or she has heard every single possible answer under the sun. This is not the time to confess all your problems nor to confidently say you have no weaknesses. Play it safe. Make a concession, but one that won't hurt too much. Ex: Mention personal weaknesses that are outside the job or a professional weakness that you have already improved upon.

In other words, this is a curveball question. Don't go for a single or a shot through the gap. Just bunt. keep it real simple -- even bordering on cliche. The mistake people make is to think that the interviewer is using this question to understand who you are as a person and how you fit in the program. The interviewer has whole set of questions designed to do the above. This question, is really a chance to allow you show your skin. Don't. Unless you can hit a homerun, (you conquered cancer, won a marathon as an asthmatic, had a stutter and won national debate championship) my advice is. Keep it short and simple. If your interviewer wants a different answer, he'll let you know. Most of the time, they'll just nod and keep it moving...

 

[ophthope]

On the Weakness / personal challenge Question -

I hear Ophthope's answer, but I'd like to offer another perspective. The interviewer gives you wide latitude in this question, but trust me, he or she has heard every single possible answer under the sun. This is not the time to confess all your problems nor to confidently say you have no weaknesses. Play it safe. Make a concession, but one that won't hurt too much. Ex: Mention personal weaknesses that are outside the job or a professional weakness that you have already improved upon.

Yeah I perhaps should have noted that the 'weakness' you mention should be outside the scope of your job responsibilities as an Ophthalmologist. I gave real, honest answers but definitely stuck to the ones that couldn't be linked to job success. Sometimes I'm late to dinner with friends but I wasn't going to say that since it might have made them think I'd show up late for clinic - that sort of thing.

 

[linevasel]

Right ON. It seems that Ophthalmologist are super anal about timeliness ! LOL

 

[airplanes]

I think one thing I should have done was look up the interview dates for my top choice programs (in the SF match program directory) and planned my earlier interview invites around them so that when they did come through, I didn't have to stupidly scramble to switch other dates around to make sure I made it to my two dream schools. I almost had to cancel interviews at two other programs but luckily spots opened up at the last minute. Was definitely a stressful time.

Again, wouldn't recommend going full neurotic and looking up dates to every program, just ones you REALLY love and ones you likely will get invites to via home program or regional affiliation.

 

[ophthope]

I think one thing I should have done was look up the interview dates for my top choice programs (in the SF match program directory) and planned my earlier interview invites around them so that when they did come through, I didn't have to stupidly scramble to switch other dates around to make sure I made it to my two dream schools. I almost had to cancel interviews at two other programs but luckily spots opened up at the last minute. Was definitely a stressful time.

Again, wouldn't recommend going full neurotic and looking up dates to every program, just ones you REALLY love and ones you likely will get invites to via home program or regional affiliation.

I did a semi-neurotic thing in that I looked up dates to the programs where I had applied and put them on my online calendar that syncs to my phone. Maybe most people don't realize it but on the sfmatch application system you can download and excel spreadsheet that has contact information, addresses, phone numbers, emails, application deadline dates... AND interview dates for each program. Some programs don't have interview dates listed, but I think most do. So it's not like it's hard to get the interview date information. I think putting it all into my computer took maybe 30 minutes, and I put in the phone number for the programs as well so I would know who to call back.

 

[DrZeke]

Another one:

SERIOUSLY, try and be humble. If people are currently telling you that you're arrogant...try and think why that is...or ask your friends to be more specific. People sense arrogance and I know from friends that haven't matched and from talking to faculty that ultimately it could jeopardize your match. People want confidence, not arrogance...learn the difference.

More on arrogance... Don't sit around criticizing a program with other applicants, because guaranteed you'll offend someone. Your nightmare program may be someone else's dream program. Don't be that person that makes it very obvious that they are slumming it at this interview. If you feel a program doesn't measure up to your other interviews, keep it to yourself on interview day or at least be respectful. Again, remember it's a privilege and an honor to become an ophthalmologist. Until you match, you just don't know what's going to happen...

 

[deacondo]

Don't be afraid to contact programs to let them know you are interested. I personally received two interviews from emailing programs late in the season (late November/Early December)...I matched at one of those places.

 

[wakeringer]

Don't be afraid to contact programs to let them know you are interested. I personally received two interviews from emailing programs late in the season (late November/Early December)...I matched at one of those places.

Agreed, I obtained a number of interview offers this way.

I even took it to another level and would call/email stating that I left their programs specific interview date(s) open in case of a late invite--> worked twice for me (did this for 5-6 programs).

 

[DrZeke]

Also in these emails, it's helpful to let them know why you are interested --> ie: my whole family lives there or blahblah

On SF match they have your permanent address and so people don't always know where you are from or where your family is from or where they currently are... Programs always love to hear that you have local family or personal ties to an area.

 

[EyesOnThePryze]

bump.

Good luck to everyone this year. You're all making a solid choice!

 

[DrZeke]

I'm no expert, but I'm very fortunate to have matched and am happy to share things that I felt were really helpful or answer any questions if anyone wants to PM me.

 

[Pharmacol90]

Thanks for the advice, folks. This is extremely helpful.

 

[bonoz]

Thanks guys! This is incredible.

Quick question... for both ophtho and internship, what and how many LORs do I need?

Thanks

 

[ophthodreamer]

"Sometimes an away rotation helps you, occasionally it hurts you, and other times it just plain does not factor into the equation of whether or not you will be interviewed AT ALL. If you can get some inside information from current residents about a program before you apply for an away that advice can be helpful. Also do NOT apply to an away rotation unless you know for sure you will take it. So try not apply to multiple at once. Because if you apply to 3 away rotations and get accepted at all 3 but only accept 1 to go on, those other 2 schools are going to remember that you didn't accept their away invitation and you probably aren't going to get an interview invitation from them."


I definitely understand the logic behind this, but I'm nervous if I don't go ahead and apply to multiple schools for away rotations I'm going to end up with zero. It seems like most schools only have room for 1 (MAYBE 2) students per month in ophtho rotations, and considering that they give preference to their own students, isn't it unlikely for any student to get an away rotation at any given school? I've also read on a couple applications that the schools won't confirm placement until a lot closer to the actual rotation....that's a lot of hoping!

 

[Super66]

"Sometimes an away rotation helps you, occasionally it hurts you, and other times it just plain does not factor into the equation of whether or not you will be interviewed AT ALL. If you can get some inside information from current residents about a program before you apply for an away that advice can be helpful. Also do NOT apply to an away rotation unless you know for sure you will take it. So try not apply to multiple at once. Because if you apply to 3 away rotations and get accepted at all 3 but only accept 1 to go on, those other 2 schools are going to remember that you didn't accept their away invitation and you probably aren't going to get an interview invitation from them."


I definitely understand the logic behind this, but I'm nervous if I don't go ahead and apply to multiple schools for away rotations I'm going to end up with zero. It seems like most schools only have room for 1 (MAYBE 2) students per month in ophtho rotations, and considering that they give preference to their own students, isn't it unlikely for any student to get an away rotation at any given school? I've also read on a couple applications that the schools won't confirm placement until a lot closer to the actual rotation....that's a lot of hoping!

I'm not an authority, but I say go ahead and apply to multiple programs. I did. You have to. How else will you get a spot? I think it's utter nonsense that these places will "remember you". As some wise person once said, people are not thinking about you nearly as much as you think they are. They're busy with a lot and I honestly think they could care less if you came or not. Many times it's not even anyone closely involved with the ophtho department itself that is dealing with this stuff on the administrative end. And if a program get "offended" and doesn't want to interview you b/c you had a conflict with an acceptance for an away rotation, do you really want to go there anyway? I think this fear of applying to multiple aways that people have is silly and based on no actual evidence. In my own experience, I received an interview at a program that I applied for an away with, got offered an away spot, and then rejected it. I also did not get an interview at a different program that I did the same. That's my n=2 experience. You can ask your home PD if you're really that worried.

 

[ophthope]

I'm not an authority, but I say go ahead and apply to multiple programs. I did. You have to. How else will you get a spot? I think it's utter nonsense that these places will "remember you". As some wise person once said, people are not thinking about you nearly as much as you think they are. They're busy with a lot and I honestly think they could care less if you came or not. Many times it's not even anyone closely involved with the ophtho department itself that is dealing with this stuff on the administrative end. And if a program get "offended" and doesn't want to interview you b/c you had a conflict with an acceptance for an away rotation, do you really want to go there anyway? I think this fear of applying to multiple aways that people have is silly and based on no actual evidence. In my own experience, I received an interview at a program that I applied for an away with, got offered an away spot, and then rejected it. I also did not get an interview at a different program that I did the same. That's my n=2 experience. You can ask your home PD if you're really that worried.

At the end now looking back, it probably doesn't affect things as much as I thought. I don't think I meant that a program would be malicious in a "how dare they reject us!" sort of way - programs just have an unenviable task of determining who is more or less likely to end up in their program and offering those people interviews. If they take you off of their away rotation list they may use that as an excuse to remove you from the enormous list of applicants they have. You've got to use some pretty arbitrary rules to get that list down to a manageable size and maybe if you rejected their away offer then you weren't really that interested. Is that a great way to do it? No, but there's no great way to whittle down a list of 300 applicants who are all impressive on paper to a list of 60 people you'll interview.

But really you've only got so much time to worry about this stuff and at the end of the day you just need some away rotations. If I were to do it again I'd apply to enough of them to safely feel like I'd receive at least one and if I needed to reject an offer I would do so with the sincerest regrets I could muster to make it perfectly clear that I was still very interested in the program but that other scheduling conflicts with coursework would make it impossible for me to accept. Surely that is enough to keep you from being bumped off of the potential interview candidates list.

I'll also note that when it comes to interactions a lot can ride on the personality of the program administrator. Not the PD, not the chairman, but the program administrator. These people are your gateways into a program and if you sound like you were rude or snubbed them on the phone you won't get an interview. Be respectful of their time and thankful for their assistance - and keep doing that once you're in residency too! Some PAs are good, some PAs are bad, but once you're in a program that PA is YOURS for better or worse so you may as well get them to like you because you'll need them.