Advice on switching to med school from NP school

[Jack-of-all-trades]

Hey everyone! I wanted to hear some advice from anybody who was a np/np student who decided to go to medical school.

Long story short: I always planned on going to medical school but when I was offered a seat in the np program at the university I did my BSN at I took it thinking it was the right thing to do. After being in this program for a few weeks, I've quickly realized it's not for me and I should have stuck with my original plan to go to med school after nursing school. My plan is to finish out this semester, stop this program, and enroll in pre reqs.

Any advice? Thanks!

Edit: I edited the title to better explain what I'm looking for.

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[popopopop]

Sounds good, what's your concern about this? Time? Money? Knowledge gap?

 

[Jack-of-all-trades]

Sounds good, what's your concern about this? Time? Money? Knowledge gap?

My real concern is how to deal with the uncertainty. Right now if I finish np school it is a sure thing but dropping out to pursue medical school there's a lot of uncertainty. I'm just a bit frightened to take the leap even though I know it's what I want.

Money or knowledge gap is not really concerning for me.

Time is definitely a concern especially because I already feel like I wasted time beginning this program and pushing everything out a semester.

 

[Jack-of-all-trades]

NP:
Pros: I assume you have ~2 years until you finish
Can "switch" specialties at any time
Make 120-150k with lower responsibility starting in 2023, lower debt/tuition
Autonomy will only increase for NPs in the coming years (whether I agree with it or not is another story but these are the facts, the nursing lobby is very powerful)

Cons: Knowledge gap, lower prestige (I assume you don't care about this)

MD/DO:
Pros: Greater knowledge
Can make 250-500k
Greater prestige/respect
Team leader (for the most part)

Cons: 4 years + 3-7 years of residency + x years fellowship, will not get first "real" attending paycheck until ~2030 in your case
Can only practice in one specialty
Possibly $200-$500k debt
Finishing pre-reqs/MCAT/applying at minimum 2 more years, beginning in 2022-2023 (admission not guaranteed)
Will be competing with very smart people, constantly studying, specialty of choice not guaranteed


What's your GPA? MCAT? (I assume you haven't taken it)
If you have a solid GPA already or if you think you can 3.7+ your pre-reqs which will appear as post-bacc on your transcript, and do well on the MCAT (504 DO, 510+ MD) then you would have a shot. You're already in an NP program while medicine is not guaranteed (Do you have the ECs, volunteering, etc?)

While 50% of medical students change their mind about what specialty they want to pursue, if you know that you want to do primary care then I say stay the NP route.

Worst case scenario you end up at a "low-tier" DO school with 400-500k COA and get pigeon-holed into FM/community IM. Assuming you graduate in 4 years without losing your sanity (or 5-6 years if you fail your boards or repeat a year) you'll be looking at $250-300k salary 10 years from now.

As an NP you'll probably be doing 60-70% similar work, be responsible for fewer patients, and get compensated very nicely while clocking out at 3 PM. You'd be ahead by $1.6m in those ~8 years as an NP (income + less debt), not including any investments.
If you can get a good post-bac GPA/MCAT and can get MD or "upper tier" DO school that'll make it easier to have your pick of 5-6 specialties (and possibly lower tuition overall) then it might be worthwhile to pivot careers

I'm gonna get some hate for this but there are NP "fellowships" and "residencies" popping up all over the place to train you in GI/Cardio etc. You can make big bucks doing this with the same benefits of lower hours/lower stress mentioned.

Thanks for the detailed reply! I definitely agree that np would give me more flexibility......that is if you can find a job. The np job market is looking pretty dismal and the field is only becoming more saturated. Unfortunately I was not fully aware of this fact until after I began np school. It seems almost impossible to find a full time fnp job anymore. Similar to this idea is np clinical sites are all full and it's very hard to get hours. This biggest hospital in my area is filled up with np students for the next 3 years for example. Covid is only making this worse. I have been told that my ob and pediatrics clinicals for my fnp program will likely have to be completed in a primary care office because of this. This is part of my motivation for rethinking this.

Also, my GPA is 4.0. Have not taken mcat yet. I feel fairly confident that I could get a high gpa in pre reqs.

 

[operaman]

Much hinges on your actual goals within medicine. If your goal is a primary care field, probably better to stay put and get basically the same job with similar pay faster than you’d be taking step 1 on the other path.

If you want a surgical field or an IM specialty field that simply isn’t open to NPs, then medical school is really the only option.

Even then, there’s a lot to be said for staying In your program and finishing. If possible you can work in whatever pre reqs you need along the way, but it will be awfully nice to have a good fallback option if Med school doesn’t work out.

 

[deleted367183]

I was in a 3-year direct entry NP program. I dropped out after one year with a BSN to start premed prerequisites. Now I am a resident. From a financial/emotional perspective, I should have dropped out in the first month of the program, as soon as I knew it was a mistake. In my case, I had a number of false starts in grad school(s) already, so it may have been good to show that I actually finished a degree in that case. For most people, I would say drop out ASAP.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I think an important part of the equation to give you meaningful advice is your age and how many semesters your MSN program is if you were to finish it off? You'll have one semester done regardless. So, it may be worth finishing off the other three (assuming it's a 2-yr MSN program). Also, how much would it cost to finish off your MSN degree.

If you are younger, I'd recommend finishing off the MSN degree and then enrolling in the pre-reqs. That way, you can work part-time at a fairly high paying job while doing your pre-reqs, get firsthand experience working with physicians and excellent recommendations. If you're older, then I understand time being an important factor.

My real concern is how to deal with the uncertainty. Right now if I finish np school it is a sure thing but dropping out to pursue medical school there's a lot of uncertainty. I'm just a bit frightened to take the leap even though I know it's what I want.

Money or knowledge gap is not really concerning for me.

Time is definitely a concern especially because I already feel like I wasted time beginning this program and pushing everything out a semester.

 

[Jack-of-all-trades]

I think an important part of the equation to give you meaningful advice is your age and how many semesters your MSN program is if you were to finish it off? You'll have one semester done regardless. So, it may be worth finishing off the other three (assuming it's a 2-yr MSN program). Also, how much would it cost to finish off your MSN degree.

If you are younger, I'd recommend finishing off the MSN degree and then enrolling in the pre-reqs. That way, you can work part-time at a fairly high paying job while doing your pre-reqs, get firsthand experience working with physicians and excellent recommendations. If you're older, then I understand time being an important factor.

Thanks for the reply! Yes it is a 2 year MSN program. I am definitely on the younger side (I'm younger than when most people graduate from undergrad) so I do have a little bit of time. However I'm struggling to see the reason for staying in a program for a career that I have no intention of staying in or ever working full time in. If I did stay in the program, I would immediately begin pre reqs when it is over. I am already an RN with a job that could easily sustain me through prereqs and would be a pretty good backup if med school doesn't work.

 

[mspeedwagon]

The ONLY justification for staying would be to have a backup career as an nurse practitioner. Med school is not a guarantee and you will have a higher paying degree if you need a fall back on it in the future.

If, down the line, you think you'd be content being an RN, and truly have no interest in ever being a nurse practitioner even if med school does not pan out then I wouldn't spend another minute in NP school. Of course, I'm assuming you already paid tuition and can't get it back by dropping out now so finishing off the semester is fine.

Thanks for the reply! Yes it is a 2 year MSN program. I am definitely on the younger side (I'm younger than when most people graduate from undergrad) so I do have a little bit of time. However I'm struggling to see the reason for staying in a program for a career that I have no intention of staying in or ever working full time in. If I did stay in the program, I would immediately begin pre reqs when it is over. I am already an RN with a job that could easily sustain me through prereqs and would be a pretty good backup if med school doesn't work.

 

[Jack-of-all-trades]

I think I should explain my motivations for wanting to switch to medical school from np school.

Personal factors: I always wanted to go to medical school. That was always my plan but I graduated high school at 16, so I was pushed by my family into just completing the adn program at my local CC. I did this and then I started a rn to bsn program planning to compete pre reqs while finishing my bsn.......however, my university/advisor threw a fit about me doing this and so I ended up just completing the bsn. Again, from pressure from my family, I applied to the np program at my university. I honestly did not think I would get in simply because I was a brand new nurse....but I did, and I felt obligated to take the seat. I now realize I was pushed around too much and never made the decision for myself to follow my goals of going to medical school. I just wanted to explain this to show that my want to go to medical school is not simply on a whim.

Np school factors: NP education is just not great. I'm in "advanced" pharm right now and I have been told to not even worry about learning dosages, interactions, etc. because we can just look all this up in practice. Additionally, almost everything is open book and encouraged to be so. I have been told on several occasions that the goal is not to learn anything, but to learn where to find the information for things. As I mentioned before, finding clinical hours is incredibly difficult/nearly impossible. I'm just not at all impressed and the knowledge gap between nps and physicians is very apparent to me already. This knowledge gap is another large motivation because I would just not feel comfortable practicing with this training. And tbh I am most likely interested in primary care, but I would much rather be a fully prepared primary care physician than an algorithm following np.

I just felt like explaining this to show that I have many reasons for wanting to make a switch. I feel like I have wasted so much time having back up plans and just need to decide to finally reach my own goals.

I really appreciate all the advice everyone has given so far because it has really made me evaluate my motivations again and helped me. I'm really looking for encouragement/ advice regarding making the switch, rather than about if I should make a switch or not. I guess my title was misleading in what I was looking for lol

 

[mspeedwagon]

Title is very misleading. You may want to update the initial post to say something along the lines of: "I will be dropping out of NP school and I am determined to switch paths. Anyone have any advice or done something similar." I am not qualified to offer advice on that and I will leave it to others on SDN.

I did pick up on a few things in your post that I will comment on:
- You are going to have to come up with a much better story about why you left NP school than you applied because of your parents and then left after first semester. Think long and hard to come up with a good story. You will be asked about it at every single medical school interview.
- For the most part, the doctors and nurses I have worked with look up doses and interactions. With practice you will know the major ones by heart. While med school may force you to memorize it, you won't retain the knowledge. Learning where to find the information and is more useful. Dr. Mike talks about this all the time on his YouTube channel. The best doctors are ones that know where to find the information.
- NP has certification exams you need to pass. Before you can ever practice, you will gain a certain amount of minimal knowledge to pass this exam.
- Based on over a decade of working in healthcare, experienced NPs know way more than residents in terms of practice (doctors have more book knowledge). Residents often turn to NPs for assistance. The education is different. NPs know their way around the clinic and tend to be way better at routine procedures. There is a knowledge gap given this but it is not as large as you make it seem especially if you are comparing experienced NPs to newly minted physicians. Some insurers reimburse FNPs and family med doctors the same for doing the same procedures.
- Most medical school grads aren't comfortable practicing with their training. Ask any doctor how prepared they felt on Day 1 of their intern year. Unfortunately, no amount of book knowledge get you ready for practice. You actually need to practice. Watch Dr. Mike talk about his first day in a hospital here: .

In your shoes, given your BSN, I would recommend spending a year working at a hospital before embarking on the career change (you can take pre-reqs while you do this). Build your story, get hospital experience, get excellent recommendations and ace the MCAT. Good luck!

I think I should explain my motivations for wanting to switch to medical school from np school.

Personal factors: I always wanted to go to medical school. That was always my plan but I graduated high school at 16, so I was pushed by my family into just completing the adn program at my local CC. I did this and then I started a rn to bsn program planning to compete pre reqs while finishing my bsn.......however, my university/advisor threw a fit about me doing this and so I ended up just completing the bsn. Again, from pressure from my family, I applied to the np program at my university. I honestly did not think I would get in simply because I was a brand new nurse....but I did, and I felt obligated to take the seat. I now realize I was pushed around too much and never made the decision for myself to follow my goals of going to medical school. I just wanted to explain this to show that my want to go to medical school is not simply on a whim.

Np school factors: NP education is just not great. I'm in "advanced" pharm right now and I have been told to not even worry about learning dosages, interactions, etc. because we can just look all this up in practice. Additionally, almost everything is open book and encouraged to be so. I have been told on several occasions that the goal is not to learn anything, but to learn where to find the information for things. As I mentioned before, finding clinical hours is incredibly difficult/nearly impossible. I'm just not at all impressed and the knowledge gap between nps and physicians is very apparent to me already. This knowledge gap is another large motivation because I would just not feel comfortable practicing with this training. And tbh I am most likely interested in primary care, but I would much rather be a fully prepared primary care physician than an algorithm following np.

I just felt like explaining this to show that I have many reasons for wanting to make a switch. I feel like I have wasted so much time having back up plans and just need to decide to finally reach my own goals.

I really appreciate all the advice everyone has given so far because it has really made me evaluate my motivations again and helped me. I'm really looking for encouragement/ advice regarding making the switch, rather than about if I should make a switch or not. I guess my title was misleading in what I was looking for lol

 

[Subdivisions Rush]

NP:
Pros: I assume you have ~2 years until you finish
Can "switch" specialties at any time
Make 120-150k with lower responsibility starting in 2023, lower debt/tuition
Autonomy will only increase for NPs in the coming years (whether I agree with it or not is another story but these are the facts, the nursing lobby is very powerful)

Cons: Knowledge gap, lower prestige (I assume you don't care about this)

MD/DO:
Pros: Greater knowledge
Can make 250-500k
Greater prestige/respect
Team leader (for the most part)

Cons: 4 years + 3-7 years of residency + x years fellowship, will not get first "real" attending paycheck until ~2030 in your case
Can only practice in one specialty
Possibly $200-$500k debt
Finishing pre-reqs/MCAT/applying at minimum 2 more years, beginning in 2022-2023 (admission not guaranteed)
Will be competing with very smart people, constantly studying, specialty of choice not guaranteed


What's your GPA? MCAT? (I assume you haven't taken it)
If you have a solid GPA already or if you think you can 3.7+ your pre-reqs which will appear as post-bacc on your transcript, and do well on the MCAT (504 DO, 510+ MD) then you would have a shot. You're already in an NP program while medicine is not guaranteed (Do you have the ECs, volunteering, etc?)

While 50% of medical students change their mind about what specialty they want to pursue, if you know that you want to do primary care then I say stay the NP route.

Worst case scenario you end up at a "low-tier" DO school with 400-500k COA and get pigeon-holed into FM/community IM. Assuming you graduate in 4 years without losing your sanity (or 5-6 years if you fail your boards or repeat a year) you'll be looking at $250-300k salary 10 years from now.

As an NP you'll probably be doing 60-70% similar work, be responsible for fewer patients, and get compensated very nicely while clocking out at 3 PM. You'd be ahead by $1.6m in those ~8 years as an NP (income + less debt), not including any investments.
If you can get a good post-bac GPA/MCAT and can get MD or "upper tier" DO school that'll make it easier to have your pick of 5-6 specialties (and possibly lower tuition overall) then it might be worthwhile to pivot careers

I'm gonna get some hate for this but there are NP "fellowships" and "residencies" popping up all over the place to train you in GI/Cardio etc. You can make big bucks doing this with the same benefits of lower hours/lower stress mentioned.

NPs have full practice rights in most states. We are biased here. As for myself, I could never see myself working as an NP.

 

[hmockingbird]

If you can get your money back I would withdraw now, if not maybe finish up the semester. Not wanting to do it is enough. But I think you have solid reasoning for why you don’t want to continue, as well. From a money perspective, I don’t see the point of continuing especially because you have a BSN which is a solid career-focused degree that you could use as backup/while taking pre-req’s. The extra debt from NP school is likely not worth it in this case if you’re just gonna continue on to more debt. I would follow your heart, drop out and work as a nurse while getting your pre-req’s done. Hopefully you could even get a job that gives tuition reimbursement but if not, you’d be spending the money either way (NP school or pre-req’s) and this way it’s on what you actually want to do.

 

[jhmmd]

I think I should explain my motivations for wanting to switch to medical school from np school.

Personal factors: I always wanted to go to medical school. That was always my plan but I graduated high school at 16, so I was pushed by my family into just completing the adn program at my local CC. I did this and then I started a rn to bsn program planning to compete pre reqs while finishing my bsn.......however, my university/advisor threw a fit about me doing this and so I ended up just completing the bsn. Again, from pressure from my family, I applied to the np program at my university. I honestly did not think I would get in simply because I was a brand new nurse....but I did, and I felt obligated to take the seat. I now realize I was pushed around too much and never made the decision for myself to follow my goals of going to medical school. I just wanted to explain this to show that my want to go to medical school is not simply on a whim.

Np school factors: NP education is just not great. I'm in "advanced" pharm right now and I have been told to not even worry about learning dosages, interactions, etc. because we can just look all this up in practice. Additionally, almost everything is open book and encouraged to be so. I have been told on several occasions that the goal is not to learn anything, but to learn where to find the information for things. As I mentioned before, finding clinical hours is incredibly difficult/nearly impossible. I'm just not at all impressed and the knowledge gap between nps and physicians is very apparent to me already. This knowledge gap is another large motivation because I would just not feel comfortable practicing with this training. And tbh I am most likely interested in primary care, but I would much rather be a fully prepared primary care physician than an algorithm following np.

I just felt like explaining this to show that I have many reasons for wanting to make a switch. I feel like I have wasted so much time having back up plans and just need to decide to finally reach my own goals.

I really appreciate all the advice everyone has given so far because it has really made me evaluate my motivations again and helped me. I'm really looking for encouragement/ advice regarding making the switch, rather than about if I should make a switch or not. I guess my title was misleading in what I was looking for lol

Also, my GPA is 4.0. Have not taken mcat yet.

OP, it seems like this is your main issue with the NP route. Just so you know, doctors follow algorithms, too.

A lot will depend on your MCAT score. Make sure to study hard for this test, though it seems from your GPA that you won't need to.
You need to be intrinsically motivated to get through all of the trudgery/difficult years ahead of you as a medical student. You have my vote of encouragement but just know that you will need to be a self-studier.

Good luck

 

[Itisnottoolate]

I would say if you are not happy now then you won’t be happy if you continue NP and only have regrets. As a NP, now current M1, best decision of my life. I am in my 30s and only wish I did this sooner.

 

[rc343]

I would say if you are not happy now then you won’t be happy if you continue NP and only have regrets. As a NP, now current M1, best decision of my life. I am in my 30s and only wish I did this sooner.

What would you say to someone who is a NP in their 40’s? Do it or reconsider because of age and opportunity cost?

 

[Ultimax]

I was an NP and now in medical school at age 34, I am not definitely 40 yet, but I do not regret my decision at all. Of course, there was income lost, lots of it as I was making 130-150k per year. The issue here is never about income or age, but whether you are passionate enough to take risk. NP training is superficial, so superficial that I regret my decision to go to NP school. A few of my classmates were NPs, dentists, PhD in the 40s and are now first year medical student, so you will not be the only one who start medical school in the 30s or 40s. I once saw a 2nd year resident at the age of 58 when I was working as a nurse.
I scored 99% on AANP board certification, and I felt I knew nothing in medical school. If you decide to go to NP school, that is a totally fine decision, but be aware that your medical knowledge is not even close to MS2 students who are about to take USMLE step 1.

 

[Itisnottoolate]

What would you say to someone who is a NP in their 40’s? Do it or reconsider because of age and opportunity cost?

I personally was going to apply one more time if I didn’t get in. I didn’t want to be much older than I am now. I honestly do not think I would have went back in my 40s. I will be 42 when I graduate residency and I think I will still have plenty of good career time left and family time. This is just my opinion. I have heard of plenty who go back in there 40s.