Advice please: Importance of Derm-specific research

[swman]

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Hi all,

So I just found out that I will be taking a year off between M3 and M4 for a HHMI research fellowship. It is ENT/Neuro-related basic science research (auditory nervous system) that I expect to get a publication or two out of.

About halfway through 3rd year, however, I started to become interested in Dermatology. I was wondering what people recommend as far as the need for Derm-related research to match in Derm. Here are the three scenarios I am envisioning:
1. With a year of formal research experience and ENT/Neuro pubs I match into Derm just fine.
2. I do a Derm case report on the side during my year off or early 4th year during my Derm rotation.
3. I take an additional whole year off to get Derm-related basic science publications.

FWIW, I have these other things working for me:
-my Step 1 >260
-my 3rd year so far: 3 H (Medicine, Peds, OB/GYN), 0 HP, 0 P, 0 F
-have received a large scholarship from my home Derm institution encouraging me to go into Derm.

I am hoping options 1 or 2 above would be fine, but I guess am just trying to plan ahead and looking for reassurance.

Thanks!

 

[asmallchild]

Any research is good but I feel derm research is better. It was a question that was asked of me at every interview.

 

[N-Surge]

Not to discourage, but I agree with smalls on this...

From what I gather, you will ALWAYS be asked, "Why ENT research?". I am asking this too, now, why ENT research? If it is based on skin cancer then I am all game for it.

ENT looks to be an awesome field as well, no? So, why not ENT when you have this going for you?

 

[swman]

Not to discourage, but I agree with smalls on this...

From what I gather, you will ALWAYS be asked, "Why ENT research?". I am asking this too, now, why ENT research? If it is based on skin cancer then I am all game for it.

ENT looks to be an awesome field as well, no? So, why not ENT when you have this going for you?

Ha ha, I kind of envisioned that I would be asked this question at Derm interviews also.

When I chose my research topic at the beginning of the year, I was mostly interested in Neurology (still am), and I thought this neuro-oriented project would help me get into some of the more academic-oriented programs (plus it couldn't hurt for ENT if it turned out I enjoyed surgery, which I don't expect to).

As M3 progressed, it became abundantly clear that I enjoy Medicine >>>> Surgery. In addition, I became interested in Derm after receiving the aforementioned scholarship where different faculty tried to sell Derm to us by telling us about how great it is in terms of diversity, lifestyle, opportunities, etc. At that point a seed was planted, and as the year goes on I am beginning to dread the long hours of the hospital, both during the rest of medical school and in residency. I figured if I have the grades/board scores to get into Derm, then why not give it a try?

I plan to use my two elective spots in early 4th year on Derm and Neuro, and go with whatever one I like best, with IM as a fallback. But I realize if Derm is my calling I will likely have to have some Derm research, and it will be too late to start it at that point (except for something small like a case report - and even then wouldn't get published in time for interviews).

 

[swman]

Agree that Derm research is more helpful than non-Derm research.

The main thing I am wondering is whether:

(a) I can get involved with some smaller, managable Derm projects on the side during my ENT/Neuro research fellowship or early 4th year (ie case reports, clinical studies) and have a decent shot in matching Derm
or
(b) Would I need to take off another entire year for Derm research to prove my commitment to the field.

Sorry to be annoying...Thanks for all the replies so far and congrats to those who matched recently!

 

[Iwy Em Hotep]

A fair number of people from my school (and by extension, your school) matched in Derm this year without significant research experience, but with good numbers.

If you like it, go for it. Just get good letters.

 

[Dral]

Look into alternate programs at your school. I am most likely taking off a year between 3rd and 4th year to do an MPH. At my school, we can tailor our own programs so that I can end up doing a translational research track and hopefully integrate my derm research into the MPH.

See if your school offers something like this. You can maybe get a masters while doing the derm specific research. Also consider, that if you take off between 3rd and 4th year (opposed to doing research later) you have a better chance of getting pubs out of it before you are on the interview trail.

 

[N-Surge]

Agree that Derm research is more helpful than non-Derm research.

The main thing I am wondering is whether:

(a) I can get involved with some smaller, managable Derm projects on the side during my ENT/Neuro research fellowship or early 4th year (ie case reports, clinical studies) and have a decent shot in matching Derm
or
(b) Would I need to take off another entire year for Derm research to prove my commitment to the field.

Sorry to be annoying...Thanks for all the replies so far and congrats to those who matched recently!

Derm related research is more than just helpful. It can get you a place in the Match.

Why ENT research?

 

[asmallchild]

Derm related research is more than just helpful. It can get you a place in the Match.

Why ENT research?

Definitely agree. As an average to possibly mediocre applicant, I strongly feel research pushed me over the top.

 

[swman]

Derm related research is more than just helpful. It can get you a place in the Match.

Why ENT research?

I tried answering this question of yours in post 4. If you still have questions, please PM me.

If anyone else has similar concerns, please understand that I am not trying to do ENT research, then expect to get into Derm residency.

My situation is that I have already signed a contract to spend a formal research year with a project that I chose in November 2008 because it sounded interesting, and since that time my interest in Derm has started to grow.
I know fair well that I will need Derm research, I am just trying to gauge how much (a full year, or some smaller projects) is considered necessary, in light of the rest of my application.

 

[dermtobe]

You sound like a pretty stellar candidate...I think that you could just apply and honestly explain that you were contractually obligated to do that Neuro research before you realized your true passion was derm. I think that you would likely match somewhere but you couldn't be guaranteed a particular region of the country or program. Hope that is helpful.

 

[Cheebs09]

If you got funding and are productive (publications, presentations), I feel STRONGLY that research in NON-DERM is not going to hurt you at all! This was my experience this past year.

You sound like a great candidate.
Definitely be prepared to explain:
- why did you pick your research?
- how can it relate to derm? for example, what are you studying in the auditory nervous system? if it's signaling, are there similar signaling pathways in the skin that may relate to neuro concepts such as itch? you will need to make a connection.

Your research will provide an interesting topic of conversation during the interview, as will the story of how you went from interest in neuro/ENT to dermatology.

You do NOT need to take additional time off to do derm research, as long as you are productive with papers and presentations related to your project.

But it IS important to show your commitment to derm - early and often.
It WILL help to get involved in derm projects on the side - writing up a case report and/or review will allow you to work closely with faculty who can write letters as well. I would suggest doing this sooner rather than later - lets you get involved with more small projects in dermatology.

 

[N-Surge]

If you think you don't need Derm "research" to help you Match then I agree with Cheebs. However, my experience this past year was the opposite from Cheebs. My extensive research in an area applicable to Derm disease was very crucial.

I completely agree with everyone here who says you sound like a great candidate.

 

[roflcakes887]

Doing research is over-rated.

The fact is, the vast majority of people who do research are doing it to pad their CV's and have no interest in doing research once they get their coveted Derm residency. Residency directors know this.

Why be a phony?

 

[Long Dong]

Doing research is over-rated.

The fact is, the vast majority of people who do research are doing it to pad their CV's and have no interest in doing research once they get their coveted Derm residency. Residency directors know this.

Why be a phony?

Because everyone else is doing/have done it, your app well be deficient without it. There well be someone with very similar stats as yours, but with research published, showing that they can do it/have done it and can possibly publish as a resident in your program without to much hand holding. Research advances the field, gets the name of the program up, and brings in $. Given two applicants with similar stats, but one published derm research, who would you rank higher?

Why be phony, you ask. Go to a club try to pick up on some ladies telling them you are just going to use them for the time being/one night stand and when you get your record deal (finish res) you are never going to see them again or do anything for them. See how much nookie you can get. It's part of the game, right or wrong, play it or never get any nookie.

 

[roflcakes887]

Because everyone else is doing/have done it, your app well be deficient without it. There well be someone with very similar stats as yours, but with research published, showing that they can do it/have done it and can possibly publish as a resident in your program without to much hand holding. Research advances the field, gets the name of the program up, and brings in $. Given two applicants with similar stats, but one published derm research, who would you rank higher?

Why be phony, you ask. Go to a club try to pick up on some ladies telling them you are just going to use them for the time being/one night stand and when you get your record deal (finish res) you are never going to see them again or do anything for them. See how much nookie you can get. It's part of the game, right or wrong, play it or never get any nookie.

I would rank the applicant who had the balls to be honest enough to say:

1. I did research for the purpose of padding my CV.

2. I have no interest in Derm research, so I am not going to B.S. you to pad my CV.


Three separate Derm PD's who my father knows personally have echo'd this sentiment.

The fact is, most applicants who do research are phonies with no interest in Derm research at all, and want cush cosmetic derm practices where they can work 9-5 40hr weeks. All the "passion about research" magically goes out the window once they get into residency.

I don't blame you for your post, as you were most certainly one of the people who faked interest in academic derm to get your post. This is perfectly fine as you played the game to your advantage to get what you wanted. Well done.

I don't hate the player, nor do I hate the game. I am merely making the point that some PD's appreciate honesty, which unfortunately is severely lacking among applicants in competitive fields of medicine. (derm, plastics, ent, etc...)

 

[Long Dong]

I would rank the applicant who had the balls to be honest enough to say:

1. I did research for the purpose of padding my CV.

2. I have no interest in Derm research, so I am not going to B.S. you to pad my CV.


Three separate Derm PD's who my father knows personally have echo'd this sentiment.

The fact is, most applicants who do research are phonies with no interest in Derm research at all, and want cush cosmetic derm practices where they can work 9-5 40hr weeks. All the "passion about research" magically goes out the window once they get into residency.

I don't blame you for your post, as you were most certainly one of the people who faked interest in academic derm to get your post. This is perfectly fine as you played the game to your advantage to get what you wanted. Well done.



I don't hate the player, nor do I hate the game. I am merely making the point that some PD's appreciate honesty, which unfortunately is severely lacking among applicants in competitive fields of medicine. (derm, plastics, ent, etc...)

Having not done the research in the first place one might never get that interview in the first place to have the "balls" to tell them they did it to pad their CV.

I'm sure many PD's don't want to be BS'd, but what do they have to gone on to tell the phonies from those that keep it real? Someones actions/history of publishing would make them more likely to go into academics then someone who has none.

I'm just trying to give advice on how to get in. If I was going to give advice on how not to get in I'd say don't do any derm research, and state on your personnal statement that your going to do cosmetics only and not contribute to advancement of the field in anyway other then your own pocket.

You never know that girl you thought was just going to be a one nighter you might end up liking and making your gf or wife. I know my current gf I thought I was just going to hit and run, but we ended up being very compatible. But she would've never gotten to know me in the first place if I would've told her what was really on my mind when I first meet her. Same goes with derm and academics some of use would never get a chance up to bat if we kept it real like you say. Some of us just don't got it like that.

Does this quote sound familiar

medicine is an extremely political profession, and it is all about being political, making connections etc..."

Politics, game, fact of life, whatever you want to call it, it's all the same.

 

[asmallchild]

The fact is, most applicants who do research are phonies with no interest in Derm research at all, and want cush cosmetic derm practices where they can work 9-5 40hr weeks.

You know what they say about assuming right?

 

[N-Surge]

I continue to do my in silico independent research towards our molecular understanding of E-cadherin junctions, after my Match, because I need to pad my ERAS. 🙄