Advice please

[Medstudentquest]

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Can someone please provide me with some advice? what is best normally to do as far as 4th year electives-should I try to do electives in the fields that I want to go into only, or should i try to do electives in multiple fields so that residency programs view me as a more well rounded type of applicant? Please advice!

 

[johnnywalker]

depends on field you are interested in, board scores....your question needs to be more focused on things like these

i would say though to make sure that you do some lazy rotations in the 2nd half of your 4th year, enough that you learn something, but don't work too hard doing it.

 

[Winged Scapula]

"Well rounded" is nice in the non-medical world and for Victoria's Secret models, but residencies? Not so much.

Use your elective time for investigating things you are interested in but would never have a chance to do again, to improve your application for residency (but obviously would have to be done early in 4th year) or to get some/more experience in a related field (common examples would be GI for surgery, ICU for both surgery and medicine, anesthesiology or rads, etc.).

I wouldn't use my electives to try and appear well rounded; you run the risk of looking like you don't know what you want to do if you do these before the match. Otherwise, as noted above, if you want to save your electives until the end of 4th year so you can spend some relaxing weeks on a PM&R elective, that's fine.

 

[Medstudentquest]

"Well rounded" is nice in the non-medical world and for Victoria's Secret models, but residencies? Not so much.

Use your elective time for investigating things you are interested in but would never have a chance to do again, to improve your application for residency (but obviously would have to be done early in 4th year) or to get some/more experience in a related field (common examples would be GI for surgery, ICU for both surgery and medicine, anesthesiology or rads, etc.).

I wouldn't use my electives to try and appear well rounded; you run the risk of looking like you don't know what you want to do if you do these before the match. Otherwise, as noted above, if you want to save your electives until the end of 4th year so you can spend some relaxing weeks on a PM&R elective, that's fine.

What you say about doing things I'd never do again is something that I've heard before. But for example, I won't be going into surgery, so I wouldn't see myself doing surgery electives. I am having trouble deciding what to do for residency though. I've narrowed down my interests to about 3 fields (Medicine/fellowship), Psych and derm. I've already done a psych elective. I don't think I'd need to do another one. So should I focus on the other two? There is also the possibility of me doing a combined residency-such as Derm/IM or Psych/IM. That is sort of where the problem lies. Which type of electives should I do then? also, how much do electives count? It seems as though many people just choose random, easy things. Do electives really count towards your application or is it mostly 3rd year grades?

 

[Winged Scapula]

MY comment about doing things you'll never do again was meant to state you should consider electives in fields you would probably enjoy but are not pursuing. Thus I wouldn't recommend a surgical elective for someone who doesn't enjoy surgery.😀

As to whether or not electives help you in the match, it depends on when you take them. If you are taking them early in 4th year as audition rotations, then its a sharp edged knife: it can help or it can hurt. If the courses are taken after you've applied, most people will not pay attention to what you take. Many people use all their electives to try and bolster their residency application, so it depends on how much you need them as to whether you need to take them early and what you take.

For Psych you will most likely not need to use your electives as auditions because the field isn't very competitive; however, if you are seriously considering Derm, you may really need to. An accurate assessment of your competitiveness is absolutely crucial. If you have the scores to get into Derm but are not as socially skilled, then you may be one of those applicants who does better without auditions; Derm is a small field so connections are important, so you and your mentor must assess where you stand in relation to other candidates.

Pathology or Plastics are useful elective for someone considering Dermm if you don't do an audition. Neurology for Psych. For Derm/IM, consider Rheumatology.

 

[Medstudentquest]

MY comment about doing things you'll never do again was meant to state you should consider electives in fields you would probably enjoy but are not pursuing. Thus I wouldn't recommend a surgical elective for someone who doesn't enjoy surgery.😀

As to whether or not electives help you in the match, it depends on when you take them. If you are taking them early in 4th year as audition rotations, then its a sharp edged knife: it can help or it can hurt. If the courses are taken after you've applied, most people will not pay attention to what you take. Many people use all their electives to try and bolster their residency application, so it depends on how much you need them as to whether you need to take them early and what you take.

For Psych you will most likely not need to use your electives as auditions because the field isn't very competitive; however, if you are seriously considering Derm, you may really need to. An accurate assessment of your competitiveness is absolutely crucial. If you have the scores to get into Derm but are not as socially skilled, then you may be one of those applicants who does better without auditions; Derm is a small field so connections are important, so you and your mentor must assess where you stand in relation to other candidates.

Pathology or Plastics are useful elective for someone considering Dermm if you don't do an audition. Neurology for Psych. For Derm/IM, consider Rheumatology.

Thanks for your response. I have done on rotation in psych in addition to the regular M3 clerkship. Should I do more?

Also, I do know some important people in Derm who have told me to come do a rotation with them in their clinic, and I believe they are one of the dept. heads of the program that I would love to go to.

Neurology I dislike, so I would not do an additional rotation other than my school's requirement. As far as applying for medicine or a possible fellowship, what would be good rotations to take?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks for your response. I have done on rotation in psych in addition to the regular M3 clerkship. Should I do more?

As I noted above, Psych is not considered very competitive, so I would not necessarily recommend more electives unless you or your faculty felt the need or desire to indulge in them.

Also, I do know some important people in Derm who have told me to come do a rotation with them in their clinic, and I believe they are one of the dept. heads of the program that I would love to go to.

Then that sounds like a good consideration for an elective provided you meet the criteria for Derm I outlined in my earlier response (ie, great academics and good interpersonal skills).

Neurology I dislike, so I would not do an additional rotation other than my school's requirement. As far as applying for medicine or a possible fellowship, what would be good rotations to take?

Do not worry about medical school electives in terms of matching for fellowships. They will not come into play.

For medicine, lots of people do electives in critical care (especially during the latter part of the 4th year so as to get ready for the CCU experience during internship), and many do medicine sub-Is or subspecialties like Gastro, Cards, Heme-Onc, etc. It doesn't really matter.

I'm sorry if you find my answers unsatisfying, its just that you haven't answered my most important questions above:

1) when are you considering taking these electives?
2) what is your goal for them?

NRMP applications go in in 3 months so you need to start seriously making up your mind between Psych, Derm, IM and a combined residency. What to do for an elective falls far behind that decision, IMHO.

Once you decide what you are going to apply for, then we can talk about electives. Do you have any sub-Is or audition rotations set up yet? Most people do these electives before October or are you still graduating off cycle and won't be applying until next year?

 

[Medstudentquest]

As I noted above, Psych is not considered very competitive, so I would not necessarily recommend more electives unless you or your faculty felt the need or desire to indulge in them.



Then that sounds like a good consideration for an elective provided you meet the criteria for Derm I outlined in my earlier response (ie, great academics and good interpersonal skills).



Do not worry about medical school electives in terms of matching for fellowships. They will not come into play.

For medicine, lots of people do electives in critical care (especially during the latter part of the 4th year so as to get ready for the CCU experience during internship), and many do medicine sub-Is or subspecialties like Gastro, Cards, Heme-Onc, etc. It doesn't really matter.

I'm sorry if you find my answers unsatisfying, its just that you haven't answered my most important questions above:

1) when are you considering taking these electives?
2) what is your goal for them?

NRMP applications go in in 3 months so you need to start seriously making up your mind between Psych, Derm, IM and a combined residency. What to do for an elective falls far behind that decision, IMHO.

Once you decide what you are going to apply for, then we can talk about electives. Do you have any sub-Is or audition rotations set up yet? Most people do these electives before October or are you still graduating off cycle and won't be applying until next year?

I will be doing an MPH, so I will be graduating in 2009. I plan on taking electives that could be helpful to my application during May-Sept. so that they can actually count on my application. I don't have these rotations set up yet though. I have a sub-I in August, which is simply the school requirement.

So based on what you tell me, my understanding is that:
-you think if I applied for psych. I'd be fine since I've already done an additional rotation besides the M3 one and psych. is not competitive
-the decision then would be between continuing to pursue derm or IM. If I choose not to do derm, I will probably opt for either a combined psych/IM residency or to go for IM and do gastro fellowship. in that case, should I take electives, as you've mentioned, in various IM related subspcialties such as gastro, endo, cards, etc?

One last question: you say that for fellowship consideration, electives don't count. So is there any way I can prepare for a fellowship in IM? Thanks again for your help!!

 

[kirurg]

I will be doing an MPH, so I will be graduating in 2009. I plan on taking electives that could be helpful to my application during May-Sept. so that they can actually count on my application. I don't have these rotations set up yet though. I have a sub-I in August, which is simply the school requirement.

So based on what you tell me, my understanding is that:
-you think if I applied for psych. I'd be fine since I've already done an additional rotation besides the M3 one and psych. is not competitive
-the decision then would be between continuing to pursue derm or IM. If I choose not to do derm, I will probably opt for either a combined psych/IM residency or to go for IM and do gastro fellowship. in that case, should I take electives, as you've mentioned, in various IM related subspcialties such as gastro, endo, cards, etc?

One last question: you say that for fellowship consideration, electives don't count. So is there any way I can prepare for a fellowship in IM? Thanks again for your help!!

wow!

 

[Medstudentquest]

wow!

What?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I will be doing an MPH, so I will be graduating in 2009. I plan on taking electives that could be helpful to my application during May-Sept. so that they can actually count on my application. I don't have these rotations set up yet though. I have a sub-I in August, which is simply the school requirement.

Ok.

So based on what you tell me, my understanding is that:
-you think if I applied for psych. I'd be fine since I've already done an additional rotation besides the M3 one and psych. is not competitive

Yes. That is correct.

-the decision then would be between continuing to pursue derm or IM. If I choose not to do derm, I will probably opt for either a combined psych/IM residency or to go for IM and do gastro fellowship. in that case, should I take electives, as you've mentioned, in various IM related subspcialties such as gastro, endo, cards, etc?

Depends on if you have LORs from IM faculty. IM is also not a very competitive specialty so I wouldn't worry about spending a lot of time doing electives in IM subspecialties unless you don't have a lot of LORs from internists or you want to go to a competitive IM program (which you may want to do for fellowship placement).

One last question: you say that for fellowship consideration, electives don't count. So is there any way I can prepare for a fellowship in IM? Thanks again for your help!!

The vast majority of fellowships do not ask for your medical school transcripts so I would not worry about using electives for that purpose. During residency, you can improve your chances to match into fellowship by doing well on ITEs (in training exams), getting good evaluations, perhaps doing a Chief Residency year, being in a program with a good fellowship match history, etc.

 

[Medstudentquest]

Ok.



Yes. That is correct.



Depends on if you have LORs from IM faculty. IM is also not a very competitive specialty so I wouldn't worry about spending a lot of time doing electives in IM subspecialties unless you don't have a lot of LORs from internists or you want to go to a competitive IM program (which you may want to do for fellowship placement).



The vast majority of fellowships do not ask for your medical school transcripts so I would not worry about using electives for that purpose. During residency, you can improve your chances to match into fellowship by doing well on ITEs (in training exams), getting good evaluations, perhaps doing a Chief Residency year, being in a program with a good fellowship match history, etc.

So given that I'm ok with psych and might go for either psych or IM, what type of electives should I take then since you are saying taking any more IM electives is not necessarily needed? Thanks so much for your reponses, I'm a little lost on how to best do 4th year!

 

[gutonc]

So given that I'm ok with psych and might go for either psych or IM, what type of electives should I take then since you are saying taking any more IM electives is not necessarily needed? Thanks so much for your reponses, I'm a little lost on how to best do 4th year!

If all you're interested in is Psych and IM then take some IM electives that you might be interested in (Pulm, ID, Onc, GI, whatever). If you're interested in Derm as you mentioned above, and you haven't yet taken a Derm elective, then every waking minute for the first 2 or 3 months of 4th year should be spent doing something Derm-y, probably a Derm elective at your home program, an away Derm elective and a month of research. IM and Psych programs will want you to be more well-rounded but Derm (like most surgical specialties) will want to see that the only thing you care about is Derm.

If you haven't done any derm at all, take an elective in July and see if you like it. You can always change electives later if you don't like it but it's harder to add a competitive elective like derm to your schedule. I thought I wanted to do Derm and did an elective during my 3rd year (my schedule allowed for that). I hated every second of it and was able to re-schedule my 4th year to be more in line w/ what I was interested in.