Advice: Two Chemistry in the Same Semester

[Ante cibum]

So, I have almost completely decided that I'm going to take this fall: Gen. College Chem II, Organic Chem I, and either microbiology and cell biology or human anatomy.[Note: I took Chem I over the summer and did well--A]

My pharmacy school recommends taking the optional Intermediate Biochemistry. If I want to wrap up all of my per-requisites by Fall 2014 and apply over the summer; I'll have to either Aouble-up on chemistry II and organic this semester, Organic II next --> Biochem
B:Take Chem II this semester, Organic I next and take Organic II over the summer.(Not sure if this is even offered?) ---> Biochem
C.Take chemistry one semester sequentially and then during the next Fall take Organic II and Intermediate Biochemistry at the same time.

Thoughts? Opinions? If I go with plan A, what should I start studying now? Plan C, do I wan to take any other chemistry's during Organic II? Even if it's supposedly a lot easier than organic

Thanks!

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[Corpseman]

So, I have almost completely decided that I'm going to take this fall: Gen. College Chem II, Organic Chem I, and either microbiology and cell biology or human anatomy.[Note: I took Chem I over the summer and did well--A]

My pharmacy school recommends taking the optional Intermediate Biochemistry. If I want to wrap up all of my per-requisites by Fall 2014 and apply over the summer; I'll have to either Aouble-up on chemistry II and organic this semester, Organic II next --> Biochem
B:Take Chem II this semester, Organic I next and take Organic II over the summer.(Not sure if this is even offered?) ---> Biochem
C.Take chemistry one semester sequentially and then during the next Fall take Organic II and Intermediate Biochemistry at the same time.

Thoughts? Opinions? If I go with plan A, what should I start studying now? Plan C, do I wan to take any other chemistry's during Organic II? Even if it's supposedly a lot easier than organic

Thanks!

Quite a few of my friends took Gen Chem and OChem at the same time, not really that difficult.

 

[Ante cibum]

Quite a few of my friends took Gen Chem and OChem at the same time, not really that difficult.

So far what I heard, from people in my school, is that organic has lab tests? Was this true for you? If I want to get ahead in Organic I should I just crack open my book(Ask teacher for the syllabus) and start doing problems?

I usually do really well on lab tests, in previous classes like Zoology when I understand what were tested on. That was basically memorization. What are organic lab tests like? Also what should I expect from Gen. Chem II, more problems, equations and a lot more theory and information about atoms and molecules?

Thanks

 

[Corpseman]

So far what I heard, from people in my school, is that organic has lab tests? Was this true for you? If I want to get ahead in Organic I should I just crack open my book(Ask teacher for the syllabus) and start doing problems?

I usually do really well on lab tests, in previous classes like Zoology when I understand what were tested on. That was basically memorization. What are organic lab tests like? Also what should I expect from Gen. Chem II, more problems, equations and a lot more theory and information about atoms and molecules?

Thanks

Thankfully, we did not have any lab tests, so I can't comment on that. To get ahead in organic you need to practice, practice, practice.

I also recommend this book, it helped me tons!

http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Chemistry-As-Second-Language/dp/111801040X

Gen Chem II was a lot of math is all I remember.

 

[AlPacino]

So, I have almost completely decided that I'm going to take this fall: Gen. College Chem II, Organic Chem I, and either microbiology and cell biology or human anatomy.[Note: I took Chem I over the summer and did well--A]

My pharmacy school recommends taking the optional Intermediate Biochemistry. If I want to wrap up all of my per-requisites by Fall 2014 and apply over the summer; I'll have to either Aouble-up on chemistry II and organic this semester, Organic II next --> Biochem
B:Take Chem II this semester, Organic I next and take Organic II over the summer.(Not sure if this is even offered?) ---> Biochem
C.Take chemistry one semester sequentially and then during the next Fall take Organic II and Intermediate Biochemistry at the same time.

Thoughts? Opinions? If I go with plan A, what should I start studying now? Plan C, do I wan to take any other chemistry's during Organic II? Even if it's supposedly a lot easier than organic

Thanks!

If it were me, I would go plan B. I think chem2 should be taken before orgo. They don't really have much in common besides some acid/base chemistry and equillibrium. Both concepts you fully cover in chem2. You also learn some lab techniques in chem2 that will be used in orgo. It's doable to take both at the same time, but its going to be harder. Taking chem2 before my orgos I thought helped me a lot and I ended up getting As on both organic s. Unless time is a problem, I would take chem2 first then follow up with the organic s next semester.

http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Chemistry-As-Second-Language/dp/111801040X

OMG, yes!! This is an excellent book! It was better than my textbook and cleared up any questions I had. This is a must have for anybody who is going into organic.

 

[68quebec]

If it were me, I would go plan B. I think chem2 should be taken before orgo. They don't really have much in common besides some acid/base chemistry and equillibrium. Both concepts you fully cover in chem2. You also learn some lab techniques in chem2 that will be used in orgo. It's doable to take both at the same time, but its going to be harder. Taking chem2 before my orgos I thought helped me a lot and I ended up getting As on both organic s. Unless time is a problem, I would take chem2 first then follow up with the organic s next semester.

http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Chemistry-As-Second-Language/dp/111801040X

OMG, yes!! This is an excellent book! It was better than my textbook and cleared up any questions I had. This is a must have for anybody who is going into organic.

I agree with you. Chem 2 should be taken before Org Chem.

 

[Ante cibum]

Well, option B is out, In the past 5 summers at my school, organic has never been offered over the summer. I might be able to take it at some other schools, but my summer might be better utilized to take something like microbiology and a biology elective to complete my degree.

I think what I'll do is get a jump on Organic by studying all the things relevant from Chem II now, 2 hours a day until my organic class starts in 3 weeks. I'm definitely going to take a look at the text you linked to, I love having multiple sources, especially when one vantage point isn't often to grasp an idea.

It's either that or follow plan C: Chem II > Organic > Organic/Biochemistry next Fall, which also seems like a good idea.


Thanks everyone for your input, I appreciate your feedback

 

[trendboxs]

yes.good advise,This is a must have for anybody who is going into organic. thanks

 

[Superfans]

Honestly, you don't really learn all that much in Gen Chem II or OCHEM 1. You learn some trends (nucleophilicity, electronegativity etc) and what reacts with what.. spectroscopy.. But I never found this to be particularly difficult to the point where prestudying was required. KEEP UP is all I can recommend with these courses. Gen Chem II I believe only has BASIC BASIC Organic. which are the SN1/2 E1/2 reactions. If you keep up, its not a problem. Review an hour a day, even 15 minutes a day (im kind of a hypocrite here, I crammed the course in a night and got an A; both courses, not to brag, but you know, its doable).

 

[chemguy79]

Honestly, you don't really learn all that much in Gen Chem II or OCHEM 1. You learn some trends (nucleophilicity, electronegativity etc) and what reacts with what.. spectroscopy.. But I never found this to be particularly difficult to the point where prestudying was required. KEEP UP is all I can recommend with these courses. Gen Chem II I believe only has BASIC BASIC Organic. which are the SN1/2 E1/2 reactions. If you keep up, its not a problem. Review an hour a day, even 15 minutes a day (im kind of a hypocrite here, I crammed the course in a night and got an A; both courses, not to brag, but you know, its doable).

I don't know if you're trolling, but I have 30+ students at the University of North Carolina who would completely disagree with your post. Said students have kept me gainfully employed as a PCAT/MCAT/DAT/Chemistry tutor for over 2 years. 😀

While the quoted poster may have found it rather simple, quite a few students struggle in Organic because you have to think about problems in a different way. In General Chem 2, it's very math intensive and while the concepts can be challenging, if you're strong at math ... you can come through the class relatively unscathed.

Organic 1 is really the stepping stone for Organic 2. The students who skim through Organic 1 usually struggle horribly in Organic 2 because Organic 1 teaches you how to approach relatively easy problems and THINK before you get thrown to the wolves in Organic 2. If you attempt to memorize things in Organic 1, you will have a rough time in Organic 2.

For example ... In Organic 1, you learn why some reactions are substitution vs. elimination. In Organic 2, you're expected to know this information innately due to the chemical properties of the reagents. In Organic 1, you learn how to push arrows for really simple mechanisms. In Organic 2, you have mechanisms that involve 8 steps and students get incredibly lost if they expect to memorize their way through the class.

At NC State, you can take both classes simultaneously. At UNC, you're required to take Chemistry 102 before you proceed to the Organic sequence. You MIGHT be able to do both at once, but I would not advise this unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Superfans]

The one way to make courses (especially science courses) easier, is not to memorize concepts or facts. It is to memorize how to do every possible problem that they can give you. Fortunately for Orgo, this usually covers everything except synthesis. (I expect that memorization of reactions or facts to help solve is absolutely necessary). I really hate to say things like this, but as a pharmacist, you will likely never take an organic course beyond second year. If you do not understand, try as much as you can take, and eventually, just forget it and memorize how to do it.

My 0.02
🙂

 

[chemguy79]

The one way to make courses (especially science courses) easier, is not to memorize concepts or facts. It is to memorize how to do every possible problem that they can give you. Fortunately for Orgo, this usually covers everything except synthesis. (I expect that memorization of reactions or facts to help solve is absolutely necessary). I really hate to say things like this, but as a pharmacist, you will likely never take an organic course beyond second year. If you do not understand, try as much as you can take, and eventually, just forget it and memorize how to do it.

My 0.02
🙂

We stall agree to disagree. Unless your professor spoonfeeds you problems on a practice exam, memorizing everything will hurt you if the professor tweaks a problem at all. (I have seen that happen repeatedly.). In addition, it will hurt when you take the PCAT because you'll constantly have to spend time memorizing the material again instead of establishing a good base initially. You seem to be bright and, given your posts on the board, you get the material easily with minimal effort. However, this isn't the case for many students and that strategy is not effective for learning.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

The one way to make courses (especially science courses) easier, is not to memorize concepts or facts. It is to memorize how to do every possible problem that they can give you. Fortunately for Orgo, this usually covers everything except synthesis. (I expect that memorization of reactions or facts to help solve is absolutely necessary). I really hate to say things like this, but as a pharmacist, you will likely never take an organic course beyond second year. If you do not understand, try as much as you can take, and eventually, just forget it and memorize how to do it.

Although I'm not as intellectually-gifted as you are, I will never take the advice you just gave us. Taking the time to understand the concepts will be miles upon miles better than to memorize problems that professors give you.

 

[owlegrad]

I can't tell if that is trolling or what, but it is really, really bad advice.

 

[Superfans]

Not trolling. Would you rather a C+ trying to understand something that you just cant grasp, or an A for memorizing problems? I don't do it often, just in cases of misery that you'll never need to know ever again. (3rd Year PChem, 3rd Year OChem .. Molecular Genetics... etcetc).

 

[chemguy79]

Not trolling. Would you rather a C+ trying to understand something that you just cant grasp, or an A for memorizing problems? I don't do it often, just in cases of misery that you'll never need to know ever again. (3rd Year PChem, 3rd Year OChem .. Molecular Genetics... etcetc).

Out of continued curiosity, have you started pharmacy school? I'm very curious about how successful you have been/will be with this mentality.

 

[Sugoi Travis]

Not trolling. Would you rather a C+ trying to understand something that you just cant grasp, or an A for memorizing problems?

News flash: Getting an A in a class does not always mean you're smart. Also, getting a C+ does not always mean you're stupid.

OT - Neither. What kind of question is this?

Let's put this in a different light: would you rather see physician 1 who breezed by med school just memorized problems and case studies, or physician 2 who busted his/her ass, took the time to learn, integrate and understand concepts and apply them, despite having lower grades than physician 1?

 

[owlegrad]

Not trolling. Would you rather a C+ trying to understand something that you just cant grasp, or an A for memorizing problems? I don't do it often, just in cases of misery that you'll never need to know ever again. (3rd Year PChem, 3rd Year OChem .. Molecular Genetics... etcetc).

The question is flawed. It is so much easier to understand a concept than to memorize countless problems. I don't know how it would even be possible to get through high level courses just by memorizing. To each their own I guess.

 

[Ante cibum]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I wound up deciding to take just Chem II this semester and next semester I'll be doubling-up with Biochemistry/Organic.(hopefully there's no scheduling conflict)

A couple of my classmates are taking chem II and organic at the same time, so people are doing it. To what success I can't really speak, but like here, they did say everyone advised them against it.

I hope everyone has a great semester.

 

[cuddlefish78]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I wound up deciding to take just Chem II this semester and next semester I'll be doubling-up with Biochemistry/Organic.(hopefully there's no scheduling conflict)

A couple of my classmates are taking chem II and organic at the same time, so people are doing it. To what success I can't really speak, but like here, they did say everyone advised them against it.

I hope everyone has a great semester.

I would have loved to take both and finish quicker. Second have of general chemistry where I am from is not anything like first half ochem. Taking them at the same time probably would not be bad as long as your other courses were not as demanding

 

[CamRx]

I took Bio 2, Anatomy and Physiology 1, Cell Biology, Microbiology, and Biomedical Physics all in the same semester. Plus two online classes lol 27 hours.