Advise on switching program

[skazi]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I am 2011 graduate IMG with scores >250, CS- pass (1st attempt), 5 publications in top journals (strong research experience). However, I applied late in end of Oct as my father passed away and that delayed my plans of coming to US. I applied to ~40 programs. Got 4 IV (1 in Nov, rest in dec to Jan) and 4 rejections, rest did not reply. Matched @#2 in RoL (blew up my #1 IV, as it was first and I was new to the system). #3 & #4 were honest and discouraged me to apply in their program as they were not research oriented. Matched at an OK program, Univ-affiliated community hospital.

I came to the US so that I can study in a top institute. Have no other vested interest. However, due to delayed application things did not work out well. Since many top institute requires one year residency for IMG's before I can apply to them (4 rejections I got mentioned that), would it be worthwhile to apply again next match? However, will it piss off my current PD? What if I do not match and even the current PD cancels my contract! Or should I aim to perform well and then try for fellowship in a top Institute?

Any inputs will be appreciated. I am in the right specialty though.

 

[skazi]

The specialty is pediatrics.

 

[xrevision]

I can't see this going well... If I were in your position I would aim for a top fellowship.

 

[Ronin786]

I dont get these kind of posts. You should have known all this before the ROL deadline. If you were willing to rank that program, then you should be willing to complete your residency there and be thankful that you matched.

I'm sorry about your loss, but its only your fault that you applied so late and to so little programs. In the future you might not match and you could end up with a red flag for leaving your program. Do the right thing and honor your contract with the program that was good enough to rank you to match. Do your best at being a good resident and getting good connections, and apply for a better program for fellowships.

I really think people need to take a look at the SOAP thread. There are countless graduates who have no spot for next year and have no idea what to do. Be thankful that you matched and find a way to enjoy your program.

 

[skazi]

I dont get these kind of posts. You should have known all this before the ROL deadline. If you were willing to rank that program, then you should be willing to complete your residency there and be thankful that you matched.

I'm sorry about your loss, but its only your fault that you applied so late and to so little programs. In the future you might not match and you could end up with a red flag for leaving your program. Do the right thing and honor your contract with the program that was good enough to rank you to match. Do your best at being a good resident and getting good connections, and apply for a better program for fellowships.

I really think people need to take a look at the SOAP thread. There are countless graduates who have no spot for next year and have no idea what to do. Be thankful that you matched and find a way to enjoy your program.

Hi, if you read my post carefully, I have nothing against the current program I ranked. I do like it. The ONLY thing that was troubling me is that in US the NAME of the institute you trained has a big say in your fellowship application. At some other point of fate, I might have matched to a BIG name institute. I have no plans of quitting the program who showed faith in my abilities. It's just a point where ambitions, loyalty and fate are clashing

 

[Substance]

Hi, if you read my post carefully, I have nothing against the current program I ranked. I do like it. The ONLY thing that was troubling me is that in US the NAME of the institute you trained has a big say in your fellowship application. At some other point of fate, I might have matched to a BIG name institute. I have no plans of quitting the program who showed faith in my abilities. It's just a point where ambitions, loyalty and fate are clashing

Dude, you're an IMG. Most IMGs can't even get any position, and frankly, research just means you're willing to jump through hoops. It has no meaning regarding your clinical ability.

Be happy you got a position. You're just an IMG.

(this is the system talking)

 

[IamnotFreud]

I dont get these kind of posts. You should have known all this before the ROL deadline. If you were willing to rank that program, then you should be willing to complete your residency there and be thankful that you matched.

I'm sorry about your loss, but its only your fault that you applied so late and to so little programs. In the future you might not match and you could end up with a red flag for leaving your program. Do the right thing and honor your contract with the program that was good enough to rank you to match. Do your best at being a good resident and getting good connections, and apply for a better program for fellowships.

I really think people need to take a look at the SOAP thread. There are countless graduates who have no spot for next year and have no idea what to do. Be thankful that you matched and find a way to enjoy your program.

I never get posts like these. Sure, OP is a foreign grad so that may be wise to tell him not to switch but the idea that people should not switch is preposterous. Do you stay in a job you don't like just because? No. We are not indentured servants. If things change, there should be opportunity to change as needed, I know plenty of residents who have switched for numerous reasons and are perfectly happy with their decisions.

 

[gutonc]

Hi, if you read my post carefully, I have nothing against the current program I ranked. I do like it. The ONLY thing that was troubling me is that in US the NAME of the institute you trained has a big say in your fellowship application. At some other point of fate, I might have matched to a BIG name institute. I have no plans of quitting the program who showed faith in my abilities. It's just a point where ambitions, loyalty and fate are clashing

You still have a chance at fellowship in a top program.

Residency program name is clearly important, but so is your performance in residency and your LORs from residency.

So you basically have 3 options here.
1. Complete your current residency, completely nail every single rotation. Make everybody (intern --> Chair) like you. Do whatever research you can (even if it's just chart review) and see if you can get electives or rotations at the University that your program is affiliated with. Then apply for fellowship and match as high as you can.

2. Quit and throw your hat back in the ring next year. I know you think you should have done better in the Match but have you seen the SOAP thread? The Match was a total s**tshow for a lot of IMGs with scores like yours this year. Not saying that would be necessarily be your experience next year but you'll be even less desirable as a re-applicant because programs will wonder if it's worth taking a chance on you (no matter how good your stats are) if you're just going to quit their program too. Note that if you do this, most (not all...but the good ones) will want a LOR from your current PD. The best you can hope for in this setting is "Dr. Skazi has not failed any rotations." Not exactly a stellar recommendation.

3. Quit and go back home.

 

[gutonc]

We are not indentured servants.

You kind of are.

I know plenty of residents who have switched for numerous reasons and are perfectly happy with their decisions.

Logical fallacy. I bet you know more residents who haven't switched programs. You probably also know a lot of residents who thought about changing but didn't because of all the potential problems with it.

 

[peppy]

Things aren't easy for foreign MDs over here. You could have easily ended up not matching at all (since it sounds like #3 and #4 didn't think you were a good fit for their programs) so matching at this place was probably the best realistic outcome.
Try to make the best of things at this program. They wanted you, so they must think you will be a good fit there.

 

[skazi]

True, doing well in rotations is the approach I am taking. As stated previously, I do like the program. But as a human tendency - the grass is always greener on the other side. 🙂
I have no plans of quitting, it's not a bad or malignant program.

Thanks for your advise!

 

[IamnotFreud]

You kind of are.



Logical fallacy. I bet you know more residents who haven't switched programs. You probably also know a lot of residents who thought about changing but didn't because of all the potential problems with it.

Sorry I disagree. Are you suggesting someone should stay in a specialty they don't like/fit with just to avoid "changing"? Bc that wold be insane imo. There is absolutely no point in going through all this education/work and end up practicing in a specialty that you don' t like. That's how I see it. I've seen it done gracefully many times to know it's possible. I think the situation with OP is different bc he/she is foreign but otherwise it's crazy. Even by stats, 20% of surgery residents switch out of residency every year. Will you suggest a surgery resident to stick it out? I even know numerous people from my school who have switched fields.

If you went into medicine and hated it, you are telling me that you would just stay and be miserable?

 

[skazi]

Dude, you're an IMG. Most IMGs can't even get any position, and frankly, research just means you're willing to jump through hoops. It has no meaning regarding your clinical ability.

Be happy you got a position. You're just an IMG.

(this is the system talking)

Dude, its difficult to generalize all IMG's. Not all IMG's come to US with intention of only earning $$$ and getting a residency spot in any crappy program. Some of us leave our life of comfort & luxury and move to US, which is filled with hardship, to achieve our scholarly goals.
We do have great institute in home country but certainly not the level of Boston, Chop, Hopkins or other programs which are geared towards research.

 

[Ronin786]

I never get posts like these. Sure, OP is a foreign grad so that may be wise to tell him not to switch but the idea that people should not switch is preposterous. Do you stay in a job you don't like just because? No. We are not indentured servants. If things change, there should be opportunity to change as needed, I know plenty of residents who have switched for numerous reasons and are perfectly happy with their decisions.

Except the OP is in the specialty of his choice. He has no problem with his specialty, but rather the institution he matched at. I dont care if its a foreign grad or an AMG. If you were willing to rank the program, then you should honor that contract. Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything.

It would be an entirely different situation if the person were unhappy in that specialty. Especially because thats a problem you can approach your PD about. But how is it going to look if you go tell your PD "I'm leaving because I don't think enough of your program". Would you want a PD changing his resident just because they went down their ROL further than they would have liked? Thats the same scenario here.

 

[Top Gun]

To the OP:

You are lucky that you matched at all. You applied end of October to a small number of programs, and on top of that you are an IMG. You should not have expected to land the top residency programs. There are AMGs with USMLE scores in the 250s as well. Guess who the top residency programs are going to take first.

You said you liked your current program. If I were you, I would stay for the whole 3 years, and make the most of the training. If you work hard, don't complain, you can still land a top fellowship. The onus is on you.

 

[tkim]

let's see, a 10% interview rate to applications, #3, #4 programs basically told him he should not expect anything from them, IMG grad from 2011. Matched #2, but really wants #1.

I would stick it out and aim for fellowship.

 

[skazi]

To the OP:

You are lucky that you matched at all. You applied end of October to a small number of programs, and on top of that you are an IMG. You should not have expected to land the top residency programs. There are AMGs with USMLE scores in the 250s as well. Guess who the top residency programs are going to take first.

You said you liked your current program. If I were you, I would stay for the whole 3 years, and make the most of the training. If you work hard, don't complain, you can still land a top fellowship. The onus is on you.

True That!! 👍

 

[skazi]

let's see, a 10% interview rate to applications, #3, #4 programs basically told him he should not expect anything from them, IMG grad from 2011. Matched #2, but really wants #1.

I would stick it out and aim for fellowship.

Well #3 and #4 stated that they would love to rank me high and have me in their program, but I would not be happy here as they are not into research and my scholarly goals wont be met. I was so taken aback by their honesty!!! Well in fact I am in touch with one of the faculty who said that.

 

[tkim]

Well #3 and #4 stated that they would love to rank me high and have me in their program, but I would not be happy here as they are not into research and my scholarly goals wont be met. I was so taken aback by their honesty!!! Well in fact I am in touch with one of the faculty who said that.

Ah, my mistake. I would still stay with your #2 and aim for fellowship.

 

[IamnotFreud]

Except the OP is in the specialty of his choice. He has no problem with his specialty, but rather the institution he matched at. I dont care if its a foreign grad or an AMG. If you were willing to rank the program, then you should honor that contract. Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything.

It would be an entirely different situation if the person were unhappy in that specialty. Especially because thats a problem you can approach your PD about. But how is it going to look if you go tell your PD "I'm leaving because I don't think enough of your program". Would you want a PD changing his resident just because they went down their ROL further than they would have liked? Thats the same scenario here.

Right, I am specifically in this case talking about specialty (in regards to my post to gutoc). I agree re: the program situation, the only way that can be worked is if it's a familly member situation arises, spouse changes jobs to the other side of the country, etc. I think PDs are understanding about that in general. But for other reasons I agree it's a no go, particularly for the OP bc he's an IMG.

 

[xrevision]

I have a classmate with a step 1 of 260, didn't match at CHOP (his #1) but got CHLA, his #2. There are enough AMGs with high scores in pediatrics that most top programs don't even have to look at any IMG applications. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they got filtered out automatically at some.

 

[KnuxNole]

Dude, its difficult to generalize all IMG's. Not all IMG's come to US with intention of only earning $$$ and getting a residency spot in any crappy program. Some of us leave our life of comfort & luxury and move to US, which is filled with hardship, to achieve our scholarly goals.
We do have great institute in home country but certainly not the level of Boston, Chop, Hopkins or other programs which are geared towards research.

I think what he meant was: Because you are an IMG, you aren't going to come close to those big names, and being happy that you got a spot is an awesome thing!

 

[Buzz Me]

Burn bridges at your currently-matched program and you may jeopardize any chance of getting another spot (in residency/fellowship) in the future.

 

[thatwillnotfly]

I am 2011 graduate IMG with scores >250, CS- pass (1st attempt), 5 publications in top journals (strong research experience). However, I applied late in end of Oct as my father passed away and that delayed my plans of coming to US. I applied to ~40 programs. Got 4 IV (1 in Nov, rest in dec to Jan) and 4 rejections, rest did not reply. Matched @#2 in RoL (blew up my #1 IV, as it was first and I was new to the system). #3 & #4 were honest and discouraged me to apply in their program as they were not research oriented. Matched at an OK program, Univ-affiliated community hospital.

I came to the US so that I can study in a top institute. Have no other vested interest. However, due to delayed application things did not work out well. Since many top institute requires one year residency for IMG's before I can apply to them (4 rejections I got mentioned that), would it be worthwhile to apply again next match? However, will it piss off my current PD? What if I do not match and even the current PD cancels my contract! Or should I aim to perform well and then try for fellowship in a top Institute?

Any inputs will be appreciated. I am in the right specialty though.

First, congratulations on the match. Smile, work hard, and make as many friends as you can. Keep your eyes open to the opportunities your current program offers for research. If you don't see any, create your own. And be patient. Good luck!