Advisor leaving program

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krisrox

krisrox

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I know there have been threads on this before, but I just can't find them.

My advisor just told me that he's leaving the program to go work at another university. I'm only a first year, so I really have no idea what this means for me. Obviously, he didn't plan on leaving or else he wouldn't have taken me on. My research match with him was what brought me to the program in the first place. My goal is to be an academic in the field that my advisor researches and there's no other faculty here that research the same thing. (There are a few labs I'd be happy in, but my career goals are very focused on the research I do now.)

I'm just kind of shocked. I have no idea what my next step is. I feel like my career has just been thrown out the window.

Has anyone been in this situation before? What are my options here?
 
Can you go with him? Does his new univesity have the same graduate program you are in now?
 
erg923 said:
Can you go with him? Does his new univesity have the same graduate program you are in now?
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He made it clear that we couldn't come with. 🙁 I'd like to; it's a wonderful location!
 
erg923 said:
Can you go with him? Does his new univesity have the same graduate program you are in now?
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So sorry to hear that. Scary thing. I actually had the same initial thought: could you go with your advisor??

Tough situation. But who knows...maybe, you will grow in ways you did not expect to...i.e., new advisor, new lab, etc.
 
Hmmm, sounds kinda sheisty. If we pack-up and move suddenly, we are obligated to make sure our patients are taken care of, at least to some degree. We dont just leave and say.."well, hope you find someone who can help you, bye" Thats abandonment. I think academic ethics would require similar considerations, but maybe I'm wrong.
 
This is tough, especially early in training. If you were on your way out the door too, you would likely already be pretty independent and have gotten most of the necessary knowledge though even then it isn't ideal.

I'm sorry to hear it. I'm not sure there is much I or anyone else can say other than talk to people in your program and figure out ways to make the best of it. This may mean trying to cobble together experiences from various other labs either inside or outside the department to try and cover as much as possible. If there is ANY degree of overlap with other faculty members, it may be possible to arrange something. This faculty member may be willing to continue to serve on your committees from afar and be available for consult - a friend of mine in a somewhat similar situation was able to arrange for this, though it was again certainly not ideal, the prof skyped into defenses, many things were handled over email, etc..

Its unfortunate, but remember that a big part of grad school is independent learning anyways, so you can make it work. This stinks, but isn't insurmountable. At least in my experiences, the notion of faculty members as "experts" wears off pretty quick. Unless you are just following along their exact research path and replicating their work (which you probably shouldn't be in most circumstances) you will quickly become the "expert" in your area. My advisor certainly knows more about the general addiction field than I do, but I undoubtedly know far more about the particular topics within it I am basing my thesis/dissertation on. No doubt it is helpful to have someone with that broad perspective, but much of the grander, conceptual stuff will overlap significantly between areas. You could focus on a lab that at least uses similar methodology in a completely unrelated area so you will at least get good experiences there, etc. Your interests may get pulled in one direction or another, but hopefully you can find someplace with overlap that you can make work. Assuming your faculty are decent people, I'd just set up a meeting with the DCT, explain what your goals are, and ask them for suggestions on how to make it happen despite this. I'm a firm believer in the mentor-model, at least for research-focused training, but this is one major downside to it.
 
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That is a terribly difficult and confusing situation to find yourself in, especially this early in your career. Would it be possible to continue working with him in some capacity at the university he will be moving to? While you may not be in his lab, there may be opportunities to collaborate either now with the data that you already have, or in the future with data he collects at his new lab. That would be a great way to stay involved with the research you're interested in without cutting ties altogether.
 
Thanks for the advice and sympathy, guys. I'm just trying to take it all in. This is going to change everything for me. My research was my world and now I'm losing it.

I know that I can still collaborate with him, but I'd have to work in someone else's lab and he wouldn't be able to be on any of my committees.

The truth is, I'm worried about whether or not I can still get what I want from this program without him here. He's the sole reason I came.
 
I had my mentor leave after the first year, though in my program (uni-based Psy.D.) we weren't *officially* assigned to a mentor to start, though most people came in knowing their area and most likely mentor(s). I ended up having two possible options for mentorship, but both were large compromises and in retrospect not good fits for me. My research mentor was a nice enough person, but it was a struggle to finish because I had to change so much of my work that it ceased to be mine, and in the end it really soured my experience. I still enjoy research, but in a very different context and setting.

If you are set on a research career in academia, you really need to be vigiliant about protecting yourself and your path because this can really muck things up. Go to your mentor and ask him/her what you should do, and let him/her know that you came here to work with him/her, and you are really concerned about finding a good research match in another lab. They need to hear that you understand this change is good for them, but that it also puts you in a really tough spot.

Unfortunately the timing is poor because external spots (in other programs) are most likely claimed already. I'd also lean on your program and see what they are doing to resolve your situation. There has to be some accountability to you, though they may not go out of their way unless you ask/demand it. They most likely were caught off guard too by your mentor's exit, but being that you are a student within their program, they really need to try and work with you to find a workable solution. Honestly, I'd be pretty pissed at my mentor because of the timing, as it really leaves you in a lurch. I really hope they go out of their way to help you out, because bailing on your mentees without helping them land somewhere is really frowned upon in academia.
 
Sorry to hear that. We had two faculty members leave before I came, and all of the students stuck around anyway. They have different advisors who are helping them out as much as possible, but many of them do find it difficult because there isn't a perfect research match.
 
Thanks, T4C and Cara. I'm afraid I'm going to be struggling and unhappy with another mentor, too. I'm speaking with my mentor tomorrow and to the department chair some time after that.
 
krisrox said:
Thanks, T4C and Cara. I'm afraid I'm going to be struggling and unhappy with another mentor, too. I'm speaking with my mentor tomorrow and to the department chair some time after that.
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This is a really terrible situation. As an attorney, my first instinct is to sue (you relied on his promise to be your mentor in accepting the offer to come to that school), but that's not going to get you much but money (and possibly bad will among the academic community). Would it be possible for you to apply this fall to go to another program (perhaps the one that your mentor is transferring to)? By then you'll have completed your second year and, hopefully, have received your masters. Your program shouldn't bear you any ill will for the decision, as it's not your fault your mentor left, so they should be willing to write you letters of rec. It's not an idea situation, but perhaps possible?
 
krisrox said:
Thanks, T4C and Cara. I'm afraid I'm going to be struggling and unhappy with another mentor, too. I'm speaking with my mentor tomorrow and to the department chair some time after that.
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btw why cant he sit on your committee??? We have a few students that have top notch faculty from other Uni's sitting in on them???

PLUSSS not that I want any more competition for one, but IF your old mentor is at another Uni, then that means you could apply for a number of doctoral fellowships that give preference to those students looking to work in a multi-site collaboration!

I will say, although I full respect that you are trying to be private... by posting this here it already makes it not private... having said this is there any way you would pm some of us that want to help and tell us who the prof was and what the school you are at is and where they are going?

J
 
That's a truly tough situation, and I'm sorry you have to deal with it. I'm surprised he's not allowed to take his current advisees with him--I thought that was pretty standard for PhD programs, but I guess not...?

Couple of thoughts:
-Is there anyway you can apply to transfer to his new program next year? I know transferring in this field is extremely rare, but I think your advisor leaving and you wanting to follow him would be an accepted reason. I know someone who transfered from one mentor mode clinical PhD to another mentor model clinical PhD after second year, and the issue was mentor/program fit, not even the mentor leaving. So, it's extremely rare, but it can happen, and I think 2nd year (esp. if you are getting an en route Masters) is the best point if you're going to try.

-A former co-worker had her mentor retire after her 1st year. She wound up working with a couple of other faculty who had *vaguely* similar research topics, although the fit was definitely a bit of a stretch. She still ended up doing her dissertation on her topic of initial interest, though.

-Is there a way you can tie in your old topic to any of the other labs, even somewhat tangentially so that you can continue working on it?

-If you had a strong mentor an undergrad who works on the same topic, could you continue to be involved with that lab as a long distance consultant, even minimally paid or unpaid? That's what I'm doing with my PI from undergrad--if all goes according to plan, I should get a decent number of publications and presentations out of it :xf: and it will provide greater consistency to my CV.

-Would you be at all open to changing your research interests? As a first year grad student, you probably aren't as strongly tied to your research topic as it feels like--and I speak as someone who considers herself still strongly tied to her undergrad research focus.

Again, my sympathies and good luck wishes to you! :luck:
 
She may not be able to follow him for other reasons (e.g. the university he's going to doesn't offer a Clinical PhD).
 
futureapppsy2 said:
That's a truly tough situation, and I'm sorry you have to deal with it. I'm surprised he's not allowed to take his current advisees with him--I thought that was pretty standard for PhD programs, but I guess not...?

Couple of thoughts:
-Is there anyway you can apply to transfer to his new program next year? I know transferring in this field is extremely rare, but I think your advisor leaving and you wanting to follow him would be an accepted reason. I know someone who transfered from one mentor mode clinical PhD to another mentor model clinical PhD after second year, and the issue was mentor/program fit, not even the mentor leaving. So, it's extremely rare, but it can happen, and I think 2nd year (esp. if you are getting an en route Masters) is the best point if you're going to try.
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Nope. I can't go. He never said why, but none of us in the lab will be able to go with him. One lab member expressed a lot of interest in going with him, but he said no. It's in a nice location, but very isolated, so I don't know if I could even actually live there.

futureapppsy2 said:
-A former co-worker had her mentor retire after her 1st year. She wound up working with a couple of other faculty who had *vaguely* similar research topics, although the fit was definitely a bit of a stretch. She still ended up doing her dissertation on her topic of initial interest, though.

-Is there a way you can tie in your old topic to any of the other labs, even somewhat tangentially so that you can continue working on it?
Click to expand...

Another faculty member researches something similar, but not exactly my area. I'm not sure if I can transfer into her lab or if she has funding. I don't think I'd be happy working with her. Her work style is very different from mine and her main focus is in another area. No doubt I could make it work, but I'm questioning my happiness if I did.

futureapppsy2 said:
-If you had a strong mentor an undergrad who works on the same topic, could you continue to be involved with that lab as a long distance consultant, even minimally paid or unpaid? That's what I'm doing with my PI from undergrad--if all goes according to plan, I should get a decent number of publications and presentations out of it :xf: and it will provide greater consistency to my CV.
Click to expand...

I never thought about this. I might be able to work with my undergrad mentor, so at least I could do something in my area of interest. I'd still have to work in someone else's lab for funding, though.

futureapppsy2 said:
-Would you be at all open to changing your research interests? As a first year grad student, you probably aren't as strongly tied to your research topic as it feels like--and I speak as someone who considers herself still strongly tied to her undergrad research focus.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I don't want to change my interests. I am very set on them. I looked at a variety of different types of programs (school, developmental, clinical) when I was applying so that I could research what I wanted to. I know that people's research interests change a lot, but I want a change in interest to be my call; I don't want it to be out of necessity.


Sorry if I sound like a stubborn bitch. I hate the fact that he's leaving and that it's going to change my entire career.
 
Born2rumble1st said:
This is a really terrible situation. As an attorney, my first instinct is to sue (you relied on his promise to be your mentor in accepting the offer to come to that school), but that's not going to get you much but money (and possibly bad will among the academic community). Would it be possible for you to apply this fall to go to another program (perhaps the one that your mentor is transferring to)? By then you'll have completed your second year and, hopefully, have received your masters. Your program shouldn't bear you any ill will for the decision, as it's not your fault your mentor left, so they should be willing to write you letters of rec. It's not an idea situation, but perhaps possible?
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Hmm... Sue? How can I sue... Can I have more info on this...

Lol, kidding.

I'd like to be paid in a new research mentor.
 
I want a change in interest to be my call; I don't want it to be out of necessity
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Oh, definitely! In psychology, research tend to be so focused, and so I don't think anyone would really do well with a forced change in interests. Natural evolving interests are another story...

Unfortunately, I don't want to change my interests. I am very set on them. I looked at a variety of different types of programs (school, developmental, clinical) when I was applying so that I could research what I wanted to.
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A bit of a fringe idea, perhaps, but have you considered the possibility of trying to transfer to another program? Like I said above, it may be extremely rare, but it does happen once in a blue moon and you would definitely have a solid reason. A strong rec from your current PI would probably be a big help as well, as he could explain the situation.

Sorry if I sound like a stubborn bitch. I hate the fact that he's leaving and that it's going to change my entire career.
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You have every right to be completely upset, of course 🙁--especially given how the whole PhD (maybe PsyD, too?) application process is so focused on applying to specific *people*, not so much programs. It's definitely an extremely unfortunate situation, and I'm sorry you're in it. 🙁
 
futureapppsy2 said:
A bit of a fringe idea, perhaps, but have you considered the possibility of trying to transfer to another program? Like I said above, it may be extremely rare, but it does happen once in a blue moon and you would definitely have a solid reason. A strong rec from your current PI would probably be a big help as well, as he could explain the situation.
(
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I might entertain this idea...
 
Therapist4Chnge said:
I had my mentor leave after the first year, though in my program (uni-based Psy.D.) we weren't *officially* assigned to a mentor to start, though most people came in knowing their area and most likely mentor(s). I ended up having two possible options for mentorship, but both were large compromises and in retrospect not good fits for me. My research mentor was a nice enough person, but it was a struggle to finish because I had to change so much of my work that it ceased to be mine, and in the end it really soured my experience. I still enjoy research, but in a very different context and setting.

If you are set on a research career in academia, you really need to be vigiliant about protecting yourself and your path because this can really muck things up. Go to your mentor and ask him/her what you should do, and let him/her know that you came here to work with him/her, and you are really concerned about finding a good research match in another lab. They need to hear that you understand this change is good for them, but that it also puts you in a really tough spot.

Unfortunately the timing is poor because external spots (in other programs) are most likely claimed already. I'd also lean on your program and see what they are doing to resolve your situation. There has to be some accountability to you, though they may not go out of their way unless you ask/demand it. They most likely were caught off guard too by your mentor's exit, but being that you are a student within their program, they really need to try and work with you to find a workable solution. Honestly, I'd be pretty pissed at my mentor because of the timing, as it really leaves you in a lurch. I really hope they go out of their way to help you out, because bailing on your mentees without helping them land somewhere is really frowned upon in academia.
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We've had a couple faculty leave our program early in their (and their students') careers. It's definitely an unfortunate, albeit not uncommon, situation. From what I've seen, our department worked closely with these students to ensure that those who desired to stay on would have a mentor to whom they could transfer. To the best of my knowledge, no students left the program, although some did have to slightly shift focus areas initially.

That being said, ultimately the responsibility for your training falls on your training director. Thus, if no other match can be found, I would be of the opinion that he/she would be obligated to find you a spot, although sadly, there may not be a guarantee it'll line up perfectly with your research interests.

I definitely second the suggestion to sit down with your professor to get some sound advice.
 
Re: the transferring idea - does your mentor have any connections to other programs or researchers so he could basically get you in somewhere else? IMO that is the least he could do.
 
Update: I'm pretty set on getting the hell out. It's sad because I've worked so hard to get here (and I've worked hard AFTER getting in!) but I can no longer get what I want from the program. No one here has been helpful. They've been kind and understanding, but no one has "met me halfway" so to speak in my research interests.

I'm meeting with two more professors here that I can possibly work with. I have low hopes, though. All the opportunities I've seeked out have been disappointing and the profs have been less than enthusiastic. They all want me to succeed, but have all expressed their concern for me if I stay here.

I've already started to apply to MS programs and even (gasp!) RA jobs. I'm frustrated with this place and I'm ready to go.

🙁

It's sad. No one ever wants to be in my position.
 
krisrox said:
Update: I'm pretty set on getting the hell out. It's sad because I've worked so hard to get here (and I've worked hard AFTER getting in!) but I can no longer get what I want from the program. No one here has been helpful. They've been kind and understanding, but no one has "met me halfway" so to speak in my research interests.

I'm meeting with two more professors here that I can possibly work with. I have low hopes, though. All the opportunities I've seeked out have been disappointing and the profs have been less than enthusiastic. They all want me to succeed, but have all expressed their concern for me if I stay here.

I've already started to apply to MS programs and even (gasp!) RA jobs. I'm frustrated with this place and I'm ready to go.

🙁

It's sad. No one ever wants to be in my position.
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I have no sage-worthy advice, but I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you've had to go through this. I wish you the best and hope you find a program where you can continue with research that interests you and where people will be invested in your success.

Best,
AB🙂
 
I'm really sorry to hear that. Good to hear that you're considering other options.
 
krisrox said:
Update: I'm pretty set on getting the hell out. It's sad because I've worked so hard to get here (and I've worked hard AFTER getting in!) but I can no longer get what I want from the program. No one here has been helpful. They've been kind and understanding, but no one has "met me halfway" so to speak in my research interests.

I'm meeting with two more professors here that I can possibly work with. I have low hopes, though. All the opportunities I've seeked out have been disappointing and the profs have been less than enthusiastic. They all want me to succeed, but have all expressed their concern for me if I stay here.

I've already started to apply to MS programs and even (gasp!) RA jobs. I'm frustrated with this place and I'm ready to go.

🙁

It's sad. No one ever wants to be in my position.
Click to expand...

So sorry to hear that! Truly sucks! 🙁 If you don't mind me asking, is there a reason you're applying to MS programs and not other PhD programs?
 
futureapppsy2 said:
So sorry to hear that! Truly sucks! 🙁 If you don't mind me asking, is there a reason you're applying to MS programs and not other PhD programs?
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Thanks for the sympathy, everyone.

I'm applying to MS programs simply because I can start them in the fall. I'd use them as a stepping stone to a PhD. I'd also try to get funded. All the PhD programs have already made decisions, so I can't apply to them until next year. If I can't get in anywhere this time around, I'll try again. That's what this is about, right? Trying again and again...?
 
Why not stay in your current program for one more year while you apply to other PhD programs in the fall? Is your current program so bad that an MS program or RA position is better?

krisrox said:
Thanks for the sympathy, everyone.

I'm applying to MS programs simply because I can start them in the fall. I'd use them as a stepping stone to a PhD. I'd also try to get funded. All the PhD programs have already made decisions, so I can't apply to them until next year. If I can't get in anywhere this time around, I'll try again. That's what this is about, right? Trying again and again...?
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I might stay for my masters here if I don't get in anywhere else. I'd rather do my masters thesis on my research topic of interest, though, and I won't be able to do that if I stay. I am pretty set on leaving. I'm not happy here. I came for the research; nothing else was an excellent fit.
 
krisrox said:
I might stay for my masters here if I don't get in anywhere else. I'd rather do my masters thesis on my research topic of interest, though, and I won't be able to do that if I stay. I am pretty set on leaving. I'm not happy here. I came for the research; nothing else was an excellent fit.
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I'd behoove you to secure a position before leaving your current program. Much like the job market, it is far easier to get a job when you have one than chase after one when you don't. Mentors leave programs every year, so programs understand that sometimes students get stuck, so you should be able to sidestep any "difficult student" concerns. It is a small professional world, so even though you pretty much got the shaft, you need to make sure to not burn any bridges.

You may not like a particular area of research, but gutting through it can say a lot about a student. It is also worth noting that many students sour on their research, particularly when it ceases to be their own. 1st/2nd years often don't realize that "your" research often becomes your mentor's research and you are along for the ride.

You don't have to love your thesis research, you just need to get it through. So many thesis papers are the result of compromise and limited time/resources. It isn't your seminal work, it is pretty much a stepping stone to get to your dissertation, which is a stepping stone to graduate. By the end of my training, I was pretty indifferent about my main research area. I have since walked away from it and found another area that is far more interesting to me. I never would have reached this point if I didn't shift my thinking from "this is my baby" to "I'm babysitting someone else's kid, so I can eventually do what I want to do."
 
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futureapppsy2 said:
If you feel like sharing, what did you decide to do?

Again, it really sucks that you have to go through with this, and I hope it works out in the end. 🙂
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Still undecided. Applied and got accepted into another program with a mentor in my area of interest. I'd have to start all over (lose a year) if I decided to do go. I'm taking the summer off to decide, but I'm leaning toward transferring. I got lucky and got a good opportunity at another school.
 
Just a bit confused: the program you got accepted into is allowing you to wait until the end of the summer to decide whether to enroll in their program for fall 2012?

Its been a few years (approximately 4) since I started my phd program, but.....what happened to the April 15 decision deadline? How can a program decide funding if they allow students to take until the start of the semester to decide whether they are enrolling?

krisrox said:
Still undecided. Applied and got accepted into another program with a mentor in my area of interest. I'd have to start all over (lose a year) if I decided to do go. I'm taking the summer off to decide, but I'm leaning toward transferring. I got lucky and got a good opportunity at another school.
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aagman01 said:
Just a bit confused: the program you got accepted into is allowing you to wait until the end of the summer to decide whether to enroll in their program for fall 2012?

Its been a few years (approximately 4) since I started my phd program, but.....what happened to the April 15 decision deadline? How can a program decide funding if they allow students to take until the start of the semester to decide whether they are enrolling?
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It's not a clinical psychology program. They have different deadlines.
 
I realized I never closed out my SND life. I've decided to transfer to a non-psych program. I am so much happier. My area of study is so much more focused on what I want to research and it's in a much better location. I won't be on this forum (since I'm no longer in psych) but I wish you all the best! Thanks so much for the advice you guys gave me in making my decision. I'll never forget my SDN family... for how long it lasted!
 
Glad to hear that it worked out. Best of luck to you!
 
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