Affording medical school with a family

[jsmith522]

Hey all: I just am wondering from all you current medical school students out there that are married how you all afforded medical school and all the extras with raising a young family. A little background for you all.

I will be a non-trad starting at age 38. I am currently the bread winner working as a paramedic / firefighter and a wife that works as a school teacher. We are looking at the budget because my wife will be basically working to pay for the kids daycare while I switch from working 48 hours on, 96 hours off to a full-time student. She will be making only a small amount of take-home after paying for child care. We are looking at paying off all extra debt with my retirement which will leave us with a small amount left after penalties and taxes.

Do you all think it is possible for the wife to stay at home with the kids (age will be 6 month and 2.5 years at matriculation in August) or for her to work? If you all have any insight or experience please let me know. The school in the financial aid presentation stated that the cost of attendance will not include child care support for financial aid calculations. I have not yet had the opportunity to sit down with the financial aid office to go over my individual circumstance. This is to help me prepare for that meeting. Thanks.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[HalfListic]

Hey all: I just am wondering from all you current medical school students out there that are married how you all afforded medical school and all the extras with raising a young family. A little background for you all.

I will be a non-trad starting at age 38. I am currently the bread winner working as a paramedic / firefighter and a wife that works as a school teacher. We are looking at the budget because my wife will be basically working to pay for the kids daycare while I switch from working 48 hours on, 96 hours off to a full-time student. She will be making only a small amount of take-home after paying for child care. We are looking at paying off all extra debt with my retirement which will leave us with a small amount left after penalties and taxes.

Do you all think it is possible for the wife to stay at home with the kids (age will be 6 month and 2.5 years at matriculation in August) or for her to work? If you all have any insight or experience please let me know. The school in the financial aid presentation stated that the cost of attendance will not include child care support for financial aid calculations. I have not yet had the opportunity to sit down with the financial aid office to go over my individual circumstance. This is to help me prepare for that meeting. Thanks.

Hey,

I am currently in school with two kids and wife at home. It can be done, but you need to be sure you plan everything out before hand. Make sure you know how much you need to get by on (and give yourself a little room for error) and then make sure BEFOREHAND exactly how much your school will allow you to take out. Each school is different, depending on cost of living. You MUST call and talk to their financial aid office and share your expenses with them and see if that school will cover them. Its true, the loan only accounts for your living expenses, but some schools are more generous than others on maximum living expenses and some even give a but of leeway if you ask. But don't expect it without checking first. This is both stafford and grad plus, depending on how much tuition is...with most DO schools, tuition will take up most of your stafford, so you'll take out grad plus to live on.

Then, you can take out private loans. I ended up getting the HPSP scholarship and found a school that allows me to borrow on too of the stipend, but I know some students have found some pretty good private loans. They don't have as good of repayment options as government loans, but you can find some good interest rates.

Its a tough thing to balance, but if you can handle living in a cheap place and living on a tight budget for a few more years, then its doable.

 

[jsmith522]

Hey,

I am currently in school with two kids and wife at home. It can be done, but you need to be sure you plan everything out before hand. Make sure you know how much you need to get by on (and give yourself a little room for error) and then make sure BEFOREHAND exactly how much your school will allow you to take out. Each school is different, depending on cost of living. You MUST call and talk to their financial aid office and share your expenses with them and see if that school will cover them. Its true, the loan only accounts for your living expenses, but some schools are more generous than others on maximum living expenses and some even give a but of leeway if you ask. But don't expect it without checking first. This is both stafford and grad plus, depending on how much tuition is...with most DO schools, tuition will take up most of your stafford, so you'll take out grad plus to live on.

Then, you can take out private loans. I ended up getting the HPSP scholarship and found a school that allows me to borrow on too of the stipend, but I know some students have found some pretty good private loans. They don't have as good of repayment options as government loans, but you can find some good interest rates.

Its a tough thing to balance, but if you can handle living in a cheap place and living on a tight budget for a few more years, then its doable.

Thanks HalfListic. We are already planning on the tight budget. But it seems a little overwhelming when finally sit down and start working on that budget and the decisions that have to be made in very short order. I know that the stipend with the HPSP scholarship can help. It is an option but not sure with my age (have to get a waiver for all 3 branches) and the wife not supper keen on the military life. I know its possible. It is just crazy to try and figure it out.

 

[AkGrown84]

Thanks HalfListic. We are already planning on the tight budget. But it seems a little overwhelming when finally sit down and start working on that budget and the decisions that have to be made in very short order. I know that the stipend with the HPSP scholarship can help. It is an option but not sure with my age (have to get a waiver for all 3 branches) and the wife not supper keen on the military life. I know its possible. It is just crazy to try and figure it out.

I am in your shoes as well, except I'm the "mom", and currently primarily stay home right now. When school starts, my husband will become Mr. Mom as well because of child care costs. We have 4 kids, ages 9, 4, 3, and 1. This fall, the 4 year old will start kindergarten, so we'll have two in school. We will also be using my husband's retirement to supplement living expenses. I have small bouts of anxiety figuring out how the heck we're going to swing it, but I have confidence we'll figure it out. I think one of the biggest things to look at is the cost of living around the school vs the cost of attendance the school "provides". For example: PCOM's COA ends up leaving you with somewhere around $20k to live on.....in Philly. Touro NV's COA leaves you with $36k to live on......in Henderson. It's tough finding a decent place within commutable distance to PCOM for much less than $2k/month (and we're talking small row house here!), while there's an abundance of large single family homes within just a couple miles of Touro NV for somewhere in the realm of $1k/month!! It's nuts. So much rides on where you'll be attending school.

 

[Lost Vagus]

You are probably better off than us single folk. If your spouse has a job, you won't need to take out as big of a loan. I'm starting medical school right out of college with basically no money saved. I'm going to have to completely rely on student loans. I will be taking out the max loan, which is about 65 thousand. Yikes! It sounds really scary but it's very doable.

 

[AkGrown84]

You are probably better off than us single folk. If your spouse has a job, you won't need to take out as big of a loan. I'm starting medical school right out of college with basically no money saved. I'm going to have to completely rely on student loans. I will be taking out the max loan, which is about 65 thousand. Yikes! It sounds really scary but it's very doable.

Huh?! We have both just stated that our spouses working is virtually pointless. With more than one child in daycare, they'd be working simply to hand the paycheck over to the daycare provider. So.....families don't get any more money than single students. Remind me again how supporting four people (in the OP's case) or 6 people (in my case) is easier with the same funds? Pretty sure a 1 bedroom apartment isn't going to work with a family. What I was trying to explain in the above post, is that because my husband and I have scrimped and saved for the last 5-6 years, we will have enough to supplement our cost of living. That still means that we take out the max (up to the COA) loans. In the end, we'll both end up with the same amount of med school student loans, but it took 13 years for me to get where it took most single students 8-ish (4 years UG, 4 years med school.....and for my example, 5 years in between working to make this a reality). I'd say its considerably easier to do this as a single student than with a family. That being said, I'm glad I did it this way, as I'm more confident in my abilities, and I won't feel that ticking biological clock everyone talks about (I'm pushing 30) in the middle of school or residency!

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I'm going through the same dilemma now. WesternU allows ~27K/year for living expenses INCLUDING books and supplies. That would leave us (my wife, my son and I) with just above 2000/month to live on in SoCal. This is barely enough to pay for a one BR apartment, utilities, and gas. I have ran the calculations a million times and realized that we will need to rely on my wife's undergrad financial aid, and maybe some subsidized loans, to close the gap. The last thing I need is to be worried about our financial well-being while I'm in school.

 

[SLC]

I'm married and have 3 kids (9,6,2). My school gives us an OK amount in living expenses, but they are very stiff about the idea of adjusting that amount anywhere but down. Still we've borrowed the extra 2-3 grand for moving costs and a beater car for me to get to the hospital and back in, but we've done OK otherwise.

The key (in my mind) is just what HalfListic said, a good amount of planning. As long as you're willing to cut out non-essentials your school will make sure things work out for you.

Don't forget (and some people may have an issue with this) about government assistance. You might get food and health-care assistance as some states apparently don't count student loans as income making you eligible for Medicaid and Foodstamps. That can be a big deal when the budget won't stretch any further.

 

[TXKnight]

You are probably better off than us single folk. If your spouse has a job, you won't need to take out as big of a loan. I'm starting medical school right out of college with basically no money saved. I'm going to have to completely rely on student loans. I will be taking out the max loan, which is about 65 thousand. Yikes! It sounds really scary but it's very doable.

Sorry LostVagus but you are off in your assessment by FAR. Having a family (including kids, like OP said) even with a working spouse is very hard to manage financially. You probably don't have any kids, so I will go ahead and try to understand your lack of knowledge regarding family finances.

 

[Mehd School]

I'm going through the same dilemma now. WesternU allows ~27K/year for living expenses INCLUDING books and supplies. That would leave us (my wife, my son and I) with just above 2000/month to live on in SoCal. This is barely enough to pay for a one BR apartment, utilities, and gas. I have ran the calculations a million times and realized that we will need to rely on my wife's undergrad financial aid, and maybe some subsidized loans, to close the gap. The last thing I need is to be worried about our financial well-being while I'm in school.

And this above point will reinforce the point I'm about to make about going to a school in an area where it's cheap to live. I'm going to LMU and I am utterly terrified of the cost of all of this. LMU's cost of attendance is $75k. With my fiance living with me, we will be able to rent a private 3 bedroom house (already put the deposit down) and have $12,000 to $14,000 sitting in the bank at then end of the year (factoring 12 months, NOT 10) if I pull out the full amount(I won't after first year). That is with my fiance not working. I've crunched these numbers a hundred times.

On the flipside I have a family friend that's an MS2 in California and he's now contemplating getting on food stamps.

TL;DR - I think where you live can be an enormous factor on how thin your loan money will be stretched.

 

[TXKnight]

To contribute to the OPs post, Jsmith, I'm in your same shoes, I'm currently the only working adult in my household with three little ones. Once med school starts, I will use a combination of retirement funds, and loans. I am working out the details of a budget for six months without employment (wife). We figured it can take that long to find a job, but even then it will be tough. We have in no measure have all figured out or anything, but here are some things I have considered:

wife employment ( will happen sometime first year) at least part-time.
medicaid/chip/obamacare
other govt assistance
talking to fin aid about increasing COA to cover daycare for under 5 yo in your household
Consider less expensive houses, a little farther from school
Working at least 15k to 25k will give you a more generous tax return with dependents

This is my brainstorming so far. What are some ideas from other posters?

 

[TXKnight]

I'm going through the same dilemma now. WesternU allows ~27K/year for living expenses INCLUDING books and supplies. That would leave us (my wife, my son and I) with just above 2000/month to live on in SoCal. This is barely enough to pay for a one BR apartment, utilities, and gas. I have ran the calculations a million times and realized that we will need to rely on my wife's undergrad financial aid, and maybe some subsidized loans, to close the gap. The last thing I need is to be worried about our financial well-being while I'm in school.

Ibn, not to be bearer of unpleasant news, but there are no more subsidized loans for med school. We only get stafford unsub and gradplus up to COA. If you know, though, of something I don't please let me know!

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Ibn, not to be bearer of unpleasant news, but there are no more subsidized loans for med school. We only get stafford unsub and gradplus up to COA. If you know, though, of something I don't please let me know!

I meant my wife's undergrad loans.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

I'm not sure about the school you will be attending, but some allow increases in COA estimates for dependent care. Ask about this at your financial aid meeting.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't read your first post carefully enough. I believe you mention they won't increase your COA estimate for dependents. Regardless, it wouldn't hurt to ask again.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Hey all: I just am wondering from all you current medical school students out there that are married how you all afforded medical school and all the extras with raising a young family. A little background for you all.

I will be a non-trad starting at age 38. I am currently the bread winner working as a paramedic / firefighter and a wife that works as a school teacher. We are looking at the budget because my wife will be basically working to pay for the kids daycare while I switch from working 48 hours on, 96 hours off to a full-time student. She will be making only a small amount of take-home after paying for child care. We are looking at paying off all extra debt with my retirement which will leave us with a small amount left after penalties and taxes.

Do you all think it is possible for the wife to stay at home with the kids (age will be 6 month and 2.5 years at matriculation in August) or for her to work? If you all have any insight or experience please let me know. The school in the financial aid presentation stated that the cost of attendance will not include child care support for financial aid calculations. I have not yet had the opportunity to sit down with the financial aid office to go over my individual circumstance. This is to help me prepare for that meeting. Thanks.

You dont happen to live in Maryland do you, I feel like I have met someone like you like a year or so ago haha?

 

[Skeeks]

I'm married and have 3 kids (9,6,2). My school gives us an OK amount in living expenses, but they are very stiff about the idea of adjusting that amount anywhere but down. Still we've borrowed the extra 2-3 grand for moving costs and a beater car for me to get to the hospital and back in, but we've done OK otherwise.

The key (in my mind) is just what HalfListic said, a good amount of planning. As long as you're willing to cut out non-essentials your school will make sure things work out for you.

Don't forget (and some people may have an issue with this) about government assistance. You might get food and health-care assistance as some states apparently don't count student loans as income making you eligible for Medicaid and Foodstamps. That can be a big deal when the budget won't stretch any further.

Pretty much every married med student I know is using assistance. You really should have no problem with it because:
1) Who deserves assistance more than a person headed to medical school who is doing everything thing they can to eventually become self sufficient.
2) You will most definitely pay it back in the long run through taxes.

I would just add to what SLC said by stating that if you have just one kid you will most likely be eligable for assistance programs even if the state counts loans as income unless the school allows more than $25,975 in living expenses. You qualify for these programs by being in the 133% of poverty. for a family of 3 that is $25,975. However, I havn't heard of any state that count loans as income. Not saying there aren't any, but I find that very questionable. I mean how can you count a loan as income? You have to pay it back in the future.

 

[CircadianRhythm]

OP I unfortunately have nothing to offer on how to support your family during medical school. My mother somehow managed to do so as a single mom and her and I have a good relationship, so perhaps that will provide you some comfort. But I am genuinely curious as to why you are leaving your FF/paramedic job? I ask this as someone involved in EMS ( as a volunteer) and have often day dreamed about jumping off the pre-med path and becoming a paramedic.

Does your job not give you the professional satisfaction you desire, is it the salary? Very curious.

 

[jsmith522]

OP I unfortunately have nothing to offer on how to support your family during medical school. My mother somehow managed to do so as a single mom and her and I have a good relationship, so perhaps that will provide you some comfort. But I am genuinely curious as to why you are leaving your FF/paramedic job? I ask this as someone involved in EMS ( as a volunteer) and have often day dreamed about jumping off the pre-med path and becoming a paramedic.

Does your job not give you the professional satisfaction you desire, is it the salary? Very curious.

Although I love the fire service (especially the fellas I work with) and I do get some satisfaction with job we have had pay cuts for the last 5 years with additional requirements of increased premiums and other increased deductions (I have lost around 10% of my salary over the last 5 years). The current future is even more dim if we do not pass a mill increase with the voters (which I think looks likely not to pass). This would mean additional cuts in service (layoffs, although this would not effect me personally with my senority). I know that lots of people would kill for my job, but after 20 years it is not what it is all cracked up to be or portrayed in the mass media. A lot of training during downtimes (which are far and few between) with the stresses of the job make it a young mans game. I see to many of my friends going out on disabilities at young ages; early age CVAs / AMIs, and esp Cancer; and early death after retirement (average age of death in a retired FF is like 60 with a retirement at 55). The salary is actually great and has no factor (I work in the west which helps in terms of salary; which increases as you travel west). Also, the fire service is usually about 5-10 years behind general management principals and we have promoted lots of managers but no real leaders and the overall moral is declining along with the ability to get the troops to rally to improve the service.I have had a childhood dream of going to medical school ever since I was a child and followed my grandfather around doing rounds in the local hospital he worked in as chief of surgery and urology. With all the the current and future changes, my sucessful return to school, and the support of my wife the time was right to follow a life long dream. I hope that answers it all for you CircadianRhythm in a long winded kinda way.

Back to the real issue at hand. TXKnight not sure if this will help you but we just found out we have much more then we thought in the available equity of our home, with the return of the housing market here in Colorado. We might be OK with the equity of the house when we sell and loans for four years. But, it might mean that the wife and kids will be on medicaid (its 11K/year) to add them to the health care coverage. And as others have said food stamps and section 8 housing might also be possible for us.

 

[OCDEMS]

OP I unfortunately have nothing to offer on how to support your family during medical school. My mother somehow managed to do so as a single mom and her and I have a good relationship, so perhaps that will provide you some comfort. But I am genuinely curious as to why you are leaving your FF/paramedic job? I ask this as someone involved in EMS ( as a volunteer) and have often day dreamed about jumping off the pre-med path and becoming a paramedic.

Does your job not give you the professional satisfaction you desire, is it the salary? Very curious.

Former paramedic. In medical school now with family.

Why I left: All of the things you listed. I had a decent salary and made good money. I definitely could have lived a fairly decent middle-class lifestyle, but I also worked in one of the higher paying markets in the United States. My salary structure was not common. Even with this, salaries tend to cap in EMS. No matter how much you make, no one pays paramedics enough for the BS you deal with. There are many places in the U.S. where paramedics make $12-14/hr. Not kidding. This being said, money was not the primary reason I left for higher medicine.

EMS is at a crossroads professionally. It has some of the least rigorous barriers to entry, is subject to tremendous profession infighting about its future direction, and is practiced differently virtually everywhere in the U.S. There is a famous quote that says, "If you've seen one EMS system, you've seen one EMS system." There is a lot of controversy about the future of the career: is it public safety or is medicine. I firmly believed it was medicine that just so happened to coexist in the public safety realm. I grew tired of the constant bickering among my own colleagues, who lacked any cohesive semblance of what their ultimate purpose actually was (hint: take care of people). Some guys were firefighters who became paramedics to get the marginally bigger paycheck and others were genuinely good practitioners who had the patient's best interest at heart.

I love EMS. I left because I loved it. I wanted to do better by my patients, have a more in depth relationships with them, and honestly, be the arbiter of my own career. I knew I could accomplish more for the field by doing the harder thing (academically) and becoming a doc. Inevitably, paramedics work under a physician's license and it is EMS physicians who determine protocol and, to a large extent, set professional standards. This is slowly changing and paramedic credentialing will, in my opinion, eventually mirror nursing (independent licensing board), albeit with a continuing focus on close physician-paramedic collaboration. BUT, before any of this can happen, the field needs to undergo some heavy educational revisions. An associate's degree needs to be the bare bones minimum requirement for entry to practice and the number of 4-year programs needs to exponentially increase to meet the field's demand for qualified supervisors. As advanced practice comes around (and it is), we'll need paramedics with grounding in the basic sciences. EMS is one of those fields where the people with progressive, good ideas are still in the minority and much of this has to do with a massive educational vacuum separating its practitioners. It's one of the only professions I've ever seen where you can have two partners working together who have a visibly large gap in fundamental medical knowledge between the two. This isn't to say that there are dangerous paramedics running around everywhere, but it can become a perceptible problem among a group of people who practice with a fairly large amount of autonomy.

If you're a paramedic and you're genuinely interested in the medicine, one day you will realize there is an entire world of expanded knowledge waiting for you. Once you realize that, you've caught the bug. The only cure is more school. The alternative is to be a really good paramedic, shout and scream for higher standards from the highest mountain, and give the younger generation something to look up to. I left a bunch of those guy/gals behind and they're still fighting the good fight.

 

[sazerac]

To answer the OP's question, my stay-at-home-wife and kids survive on personal savings from my previous career. Plus a partial scholarship helps.

In the non-trad forums I once sarcastically suggested that if daycare is so damn expensive, why not have the spouse open a home daycare? Enroll your two kids plus 4 others and you'll be making the equivalent of two full time jobs, at home. It got a surprisingly good response. Something to keep in mind anyway.

Good luck. There is hope at the end of this journey, it's just a little rough getting there 🙂

 

[cabinbuilder]

I started med school in Erie, PA (super cheap to live there) with a husband and 2 kids. My kids were 2 & 5 when I started. Some ideas for those with families:

When I got my student loan check:

1. I paid 900/mo for rent. I was able to get a discount from the landlord since I paid my rent in 6 months blocks.
2. My daughter was in daycare 2 days a week - I paid that in 6 month blocks
3. I bought all my food in bulk at Sam's club, made everything from scratch, cooked on the weekends ahead and froze many dishes, bought my meat at wholesale, and my other staples at discount grocery stores.

My husband worked part time on Thurs, Fri, Sat. and between his income and my child support we survive on $1200/mo for the rest of the bills. His job provided us health insurance
I rotated the bills because you always have a 2 week grace to give myself extra "payment" time without being "late". His work schedule allowed for him to be home most of the week to lessen day care costs. I did not do study time on Fri or Sat. That gave me Sunday with my study group to brush up for Monday exam. My study group met Mon-Thurs 6-10pm.

My son went to before school care (free activities at the school) and we put him in after school activities (Spanish, martial arts) also at the school to bide us time to pick him up.

Gave up a ton of stuff. I did free internet trials, would cancel, then do the next trial
No cable
No newspaper
Took the kids to the beach and the park, playground, etc. Free things to do.
Did not eat out more than once a month as a treat
Lived by a dollar theater and did that once a week.
I had one credit card that was empty for emergencies only. I did not use the credit card EVER for day to day items.

 

[abolt18]

As has been said, government assistance will save you HUNDREDS each month (food stamps, medicaid, rent assistance, utilities assistance). Don't get cable, or other non essentials. Get your money budgeted out, set a max each month to spend and don't go over. You should be fine. Also, settling for a slightly smaller, less awesome apartment can save tons. While many of my friends have large apartments with a garage and other great amenities, we live in a 3 bedroom duplex that is of a reasonable size, street parking, and way less awesomeness, we spend $300 less each month than many of them.

 

[Chillywilly]

Former paramedic. In medical school now with family.

Why I left: All of the things you listed. I had a decent salary and made good money. I definitely could have lived a fairly decent middle-class lifestyle, but I also worked in one of the higher paying markets in the United States. My salary structure was not common. Even with this, salaries tend to cap in EMS. No matter how much you make, no one pays paramedics enough for the BS you deal with. There are many places in the U.S. where paramedics make $12-14/hr. Not kidding. This being said, money was not the primary reason I left for higher medicine.

EMS is at a crossroads professionally. It has some of the least rigorous barriers to entry, is subject to tremendous profession infighting about its future direction, and is practiced differently virtually everywhere in the U.S. There is a famous quote that says, "If you've seen one EMS system, you've seen one EMS system." There is a lot of controversy about the future of the career: is it public safety or is medicine. I firmly believed it was medicine that just so happened to coexist in the public safety realm. I grew tired of the constant bickering among my own colleagues, who lacked any cohesive semblance of what their ultimate purpose actually was (hint: take care of people). Some guys were firefighters who became paramedics to get the marginally bigger paycheck and others were genuinely good practitioners who had the patient's best interest at heart.

I love EMS. I left because I loved it. I wanted to do better by my patients, have a more in depth relationships with them, and honestly, be the arbiter of my own career. I knew I could accomplish more for the field by doing the harder thing (academically) and becoming a doc. Inevitably, paramedics work under a physician's license and it is EMS physicians who determine protocol and, to a large extent, set professional standards. This is slowly changing and paramedic credentialing will, in my opinion, eventually mirror nursing (independent licensing board), albeit with a continuing focus on close physician-paramedic collaboration. BUT, before any of this can happen, the field needs to undergo some heavy educational revisions. An associate's degree needs to be the bare bones minimum requirement for entry to practice and the number of 4-year programs needs to exponentially increase to meet the field's demand for qualified supervisors. As advanced practice comes around (and it is), we'll need paramedics with grounding in the basic sciences. EMS is one of those fields where the people with progressive, good ideas are still in the minority and much of this has to do with a massive educational vacuum separating its practitioners. It's one of the only professions I've ever seen where you can have two partners working together who have a visibly large gap in fundamental medical knowledge between the two. This isn't to say that there are dangerous paramedics running around everywhere, but it can become a perceptible problem among a group of people who practice with a fairly large amount of autonomy.

If you're a paramedic and you're genuinely interested in the medicine, one day you will realize there is an entire world of expanded knowledge waiting for you. Once you realize that, you've caught the bug. The only cure is more school. The alternative is to be a really good paramedic, shout and scream for higher standards from the highest mountain, and give the younger generation something to look up to. I left a bunch of those guy/gals behind and they're still fighting the good fight.

I'm just asking because I'm curious, and in no way trying to sound arrogant or condescending, but I often wonder why non-trads with families chose medicine as a second career. Like wouldn't it have been easier to do medicine after undergrad, and before marriage and children? Like how do these non-trad students stay focused on studying while balancing a spouse, children, and daily life?

 

[miltonm]

I'm just asking because I'm curious, and in no way trying to sound arrogant or condescending, but I often wonder why non-trads with families chose medicine as a second career. Like wouldn't it have been easier to do medicine after undergrad, and before marriage and children? Like how do these non-trad students stay focused on studying while balancing a spouse, children, and daily life?

Yes, it indeed would've been easier to study for med school (or undergrad, graduate, phd, etc) without a spouse and kids to "take away your time". However, many of us would rather go through the troubles of school with the wonderful support only a spouse and children can provide.

Then, when you are in your early fifties, your children are already raised and you are still young to enjoy many things young people enjoy with the added benefit of having the money to spend it (travel, movies, dine out, etc).

Having a family early in life is not for everyone, just how medicine is not for everyone. It varies from person to person.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I'm just asking because I'm curious, and in no way trying to sound arrogant or condescending, but I often wonder why non-trads with families chose medicine as a second career. Like wouldn't it have been easier to do medicine after undergrad, and before marriage and children? Like how do these non-trad students stay focused on studying while balancing a spouse, children, and daily life?

I chose medicine as my first career but my life got in the way. Things happen. I got married young. I lived in a state that had no medical school. I worked 2 jobs to put myself through college. I was super poor. I ended up homeless. My first attempt at getting into school at age 23 failed. Soon after my mom killed herself. I had my first child at 27, spent the next 5 years sick having multiple surgeries. My husband left me with 2 babies, threatened to kill me. I had to get the police involved, etc. Wasn't really financially ready, physically ready, or emotionally ready until all the dust settled.

So, yes, I would had LOVED to go to school at age 23, that didn't happen, I got sick of living in poverty and struggling to feed my kids. I did it for myself when the time was right. It cost me $3000 alone just to move out of Alaska across the country. You just DO IT and I was fortunate to have tons of friends who helped get me there.

 

[Chillywilly]

I chose medicine as my first career but my life got in the way. Things happen. I got married young. I lived in a state that had no medical school. I worked 2 jobs to put myself through college. I was super poor. I ended up homeless. My first attempt at getting into school at age 23 failed. Soon after my mom killed herself. I had my first child at 27, spent the next 5 years sick having multiple surgeries. My husband left me with 2 babies, threatened to kill me. I had to get the police involved, etc. Wasn't really financially ready, physically ready, or emotionally ready until all the dust settled.

So, yes, I would had LOVED to go to school at age 23, that didn't happen, I got sick of living in poverty and struggling to feed my kids. I did it for myself when the time was right. It cost me $3000 alone just to move out of Alaska across the country. You just DO IT and I was fortunate to have tons of friends who helped get me there.

Thank you for sharing. Very powerful how you overcame adversity. You are an inspiraton 🙂

 

[sazerac]

I'm just asking because I'm curious, and in no way trying to sound arrogant or condescending, but I often wonder why non-trads with families chose medicine as a second career. Like wouldn't it have been easier to do medicine after undergrad, and before marriage and children? Like how do these non-trad students stay focused on studying while balancing a spouse, children, and daily life?

I chose medicine as a second career because I didn't decide I wanted to be a doctor until later in life.

I'm sure it would have been easier straight out of undergrad, but I didn't want to be a doctor then. I wanted to be something else, and I did follow that dream for my first career without the distractions of a wife and kids.

Balancing my spouse and children and daily life can be a challenge sometimes but they are all supportive. With all the distractions am I going to be the best doctor I could possibly be? Probably not. But I can be the best husband-father-doctor combination that I can possibly be. I am thankful every day that I found a medical school that supports my (new) dreams.

 

[CheckMate2013]

I had a quick question with regards to the loans. I understand that you can take out Stafford and GradPlus student loans up to the cost of attendance for the school. Is it possible to take out additional private loans for emergency purposes?

 

[SpartanWolverine]

I had a quick question with regards to the loans. I understand that you can take out Stafford and GradPlus student loans up to the cost of attendance for the school. Is it possible to take out additional private loans for emergency purposes?

I only ask because COA seems to be on the low end for my institution and I would rather take out additional funds (even through private banks) if necessary.

You can apply for private loans for any reason... plus there are credit cards. Just don't expect automatic approval or rates and terms to be favorable. Thankfully I am fortunate to get by with my resources, so I have no firsthand knowledge of last-resort resources... maybe someone has more knowledgeable advice.

 

[sandstone]

I'm just asking because I'm curious, and in no way trying to sound arrogant or condescending, but I often wonder why non-trads with families chose medicine as a second career. Like wouldn't it have been easier to do medicine after undergrad, and before marriage and children? Like how do these non-trad students stay focused on studying while balancing a spouse, children, and daily life?

I was having a blast in my 20s as a mountaineering guide. I travelled extensively and climbed all over the world in some spectacular places, it was an amazing time! I didn't know that I wanted to be a doctor until travelling to Thailand a few weeks after the 2004 tsunami and seeing that impact of disaster medical relief convinced me to get my undergrad and go to medical school. Also during that time I met the woman who is now my wife and realized that I wanted to have more traditional career that could support a family one day. By the time I started med school, we were old enough that we couldn't really wait on having kids anymore, so we went for it!

To the OP, I am a 2nd year student at RVU in Colorado and my wife is a part-time teacher and we have a two year old and another kid on the way. Finances have been a hard part of medical school for us. She won't be working next year because as of now, much of her salary goes toward daycare expense, and it will be less stressful to have her at home when my schedule gets more rigid and longer hours away from home on rotations. We have maxed out our COA, with an add-on that the school allows for day care expense, this is about 80,000/yr (yikes!). Even on top of that we have borrowed a couple hundred/month from family. We could probably make it without family help if we drastically changed our lifestyle by moving to a one-bedroom apartment in the ghetto or something. Thankfully, that's not a step we're having to take. Finances have been easier the past few months with the medicaid expansion, since we now qualify for medicaid and we'll probably qualify for food stamps too. This seems to have eliminated our need for family help so far. We pay 1500/month to rent a nice 3 bedroom town home in a nice neighborhood, have two old cars, and maintain a frugal but decent lifestyle. From my understanding, you cannot borrow any more school loans, private or not, above the COA. We have not used credit cards because we know that would be very bad for the long run. I love med school and overall I'm glad to be here, but I have my low moments where I wonder why I chose such a hard path to take with a family. Overall, family makes med school harder and med school makes having a family harder. Although, sometimes I think having a family has helped me perform really well because it gives me great motivation to succeed and it forces me to be and expert at time management and focused like a laser when studying. Know your wife will have to step up and work hard too to take care of the kids and things around the house while you're studying for long hours. Be sure she has that expectation and that she is fully supportive of your med school goals, thankfully my wife is very supportive and that makes life much easier. As I said, I am very happy to be in school and I keep the positivity that it will all be worth it and I'll be able to pay off my loans without any trouble. It's important to go to a school that does not require attendance at all classes. My school is like this, so I have so far been able to strike a very nice balance between school and family by not going to any classes that are not required. Most weeks, I get to spend about as much time with them as when I was working full time, but it takes effort to do so! And there areweeks that are so full-on with school, that I don't spend much time with them. All of my personal hobbies have pretty much gone away for now. Not much social life or climbing, but it's okay! You just have to have the right attitude about it all and keep your priorities straight. I do go trail running or mountain biking about 2 times/week, which is good. You will laugh when your single classmates complain about how busy they are and how little freetime they have. Feel free to ask me any specific questions and good luck!

 

[jsmith522]

I was having a blast in my 20s as a mountaineering guide. I travelled extensively and climbed all over the world in some spectacular places, it was an amazing time! I didn't know that I wanted to be a doctor until travelling to Thailand a few weeks after the 2004 tsunami and seeing that impact of disaster medical relief convinced me to get my undergrad and go to medical school. Also during that time I met the woman who is now my wife and realized that I wanted to have more traditional career that could support a family one day. By the time I started med school, we were old enough that we couldn't really wait on having kids anymore, so we went for it!

To the OP, I am a 2nd year student at RVU in Colorado and my wife is a part-time teacher and we have a two year old and another kid on the way. Finances have been a hard part of medical school for us. She won't be working next year because as of now, much of her salary goes toward daycare expense, and it will be less stressful to have her at home when my schedule gets more rigid and longer hours away from home on rotations. We have maxed out our COA, with an add-on that the school allows for day care expense, this is about 80,000/yr (yikes!). Even on top of that we have borrowed a couple hundred/month from family. We could probably make it without family help if we drastically changed our lifestyle by moving to a one-bedroom apartment in the ghetto or something. Thankfully, that's not a step we're having to take. Finances have been easier the past few months with the medicaid expansion, since we now qualify for medicaid and we'll probably qualify for food stamps too. This seems to have eliminated our need for family help so far. We pay 1500/month to rent a nice 3 bedroom town home in a nice neighborhood, have two old cars, and maintain a frugal but decent lifestyle. From my understanding, you cannot borrow any more school loans, private or not, above the COA. We have not used credit cards because we know that would be very bad for the long run. I love med school and overall I'm glad to be here, but I have my low moments where I wonder why I chose such a hard path to take with a family. Overall, family makes med school harder and med school makes having a family harder. Although, sometimes I think having a family has helped me perform really well because it gives me great motivation to succeed and it forces me to be and expert at time management and focused like a laser when studying. Know your wife will have to step up and work hard too to take care of the kids and things around the house while you're studying for long hours. Be sure she has that expectation and that she is fully supportive of your med school goals, thankfully my wife is very supportive and that makes life much easier. As I said, I am very happy to be in school and I keep the positivity that it will all be worth it and I'll be able to pay off my loans without any trouble. It's important to go to a school that does not require attendance at all classes. My school is like this, so I have so far been able to strike a very nice balance between school and family by not going to any classes that are not required. Most weeks, I get to spend about as much time with them as when I was working full time, but it takes effort to do so! And there areweeks that are so full-on with school, that I don't spend much time with them. All of my personal hobbies have pretty much gone away for now. Not much social life or climbing, but it's okay! You just have to have the right attitude about it all and keep your priorities straight. I do go trail running or mountain biking about 2 times/week, which is good. You will laugh when your single classmates complain about how busy they are and how little freetime they have. Feel free to ask me any specific questions and good luck!

I am glad to see that RVU adds on a day care expense. When I asked during the interview they said that nothing was added to the already determined COA figure. They also stated that it was difficult to make the family finances work while attending. It was the only thing I didn't like about the school and the presentations during the interview. I know of people with families at the school and I am not sure why they presented the family thing the way they did. I think that with some creative financing that we can make it work. We are in the same boat as you, I just don't see the cost effectiveness of my wife working as a teacher full time, when she would be working to pay for day care (a two year old and one due in 5 weeks...lord help us!) I already figured that my skiing and climbing was going to suffer, but I always have my mountain bike that I could head to the hills for a mental break every once in awhile. We were already looking for rentals in town and selling the house up here in the hills for extra cash. It is a little daunting thinking of staging a house with two little ones, but it has been done before. As a side note sandstone do you have an idea where you are bidding to do your clinical rotations at next year?

 

[abolt18]

We pay 1500/month to rent a nice 3 bedroom town home in a nice neighborhood......and maintain a frugal but decent lifestyle.

These are contradictory.

@jsmith522 usually your school only gives the additional money for daycare if your spouse is working.

 

[Indianarn]

I chose medicine as my first career but my life got in the way. Things happen. I got married young. I lived in a state that had no medical school. I worked 2 jobs to put myself through college. I was super poor. I ended up homeless. My first attempt at getting into school at age 23 failed. Soon after my mom killed herself. I had my first child at 27, spent the next 5 years sick having multiple surgeries. My husband left me with 2 babies, threatened to kill me. I had to get the police involved, etc. Wasn't really financially ready, physically ready, or emotionally ready until all the dust settled.

So, yes, I would had LOVED to go to school at age 23, that didn't happen, I got sick of living in poverty and struggling to feed my kids. I did it for myself when the time was right. It cost me $3000 alone just to move out of Alaska across the country. You just DO IT and I was fortunate to have tons of friends who helped get me there.

Wow, inspiring. You should post your story in my post for non-traditionals under the topic of inspiring stories for Non-traditionals.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Wow, inspiring. You should post your story in my post for non-traditionals under the topic of inspiring stories for Non-traditionals.

It has been posted many times. I was also interviewed for the 20 questions here on SDN.http://www.studentdoctor.net/2013/04/20-questions-kathie-m-horrace-voigt-do/

Also for Texas OPTI: http://lecom.edu/alumni.php/Kathie-...tured-resident-at-Texas-OPTI/49/2205/630/2632

 

[sandstone]

These are contradictory.

abolt, yes it is a bit contradictory, we spend a lot on rent. However, Denver is expensive and we looked at tons of crappy 2 bedroom apartments in much less desirable parts of Denver for 1200/mo. Sure we could get roommates or live in a less expensive place, but for us the extra 300/mo or more is well worth the comfort and tranquility that our nice home at the foot of the mountains provides as it really helps with our stress levels during this somewhat hard time. People with families at my school can and do get by with spending less than we do.


Jsmith, RVU seems pretty family friendly, although I don't really have anything else to compare to. Lots of people at this school have families and the faculty has generally been pretty flexible in terms of working with me when family issues arise in terms of getting excused absences etc. You can get the COA increase for daycare, but abolt's right that your spouse has to be working. I don't remember having to show documentation for my wife working, although you do have to prove that you're paying daycare expenses with a letter from you provider. If you're into biking and climbing, you may want to look into living in Littleton instead of Parker. There are neighborhoods, especially in the SW part of town where I live, that are very close to the mountains and some great trails and climbing. For me this has been key. With my limited time, it's great to be able to drive 5-20 minutes to some national forest and get on some awesome trails or hit up the South Platte for some amazing granite. It's about 30-40 minutes to school and makes it a little bit harder to get involved socially and stuff but for me its well worth it to maintain a nice outdoor lifestyle. I'll be shooting to do rotations in Denver since we love our home here and we have lots of family nearby to help out. I'll also be doing a few rural rotations in the mountains as well since I'm in the rural/wilderness med track.

 

[Indianarn]

It has been posted many times. I was also interviewed for the 20 questions here on SDN.http://www.studentdoctor.net/2013/04/20-questions-kathie-m-horrace-voigt-do/

Also for Texas OPTI: http://lecom.edu/alumni.php/Kathie-...tured-resident-at-Texas-OPTI/49/2205/630/2632

Extremely impressed. Thats what I would live to say and be one day.