after grad plans - helllpppp

[breezywonton]

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I’m just in my second year, but I can’t help but constantly be worried about what to do after graduation. I want to go into shelter medicine (i know my mind can change), however, I’m finding that mentorship in that area is very limited. At least, quality mentorship. The shelter back home, who I’ve been working with since high school, is tossing around the idea of wanting to hire me when I graduate since they’re drowning with one doctor. However- this one doctor, even though he has been a great mentor for me, has never mentored a new grad. I fear if I come in as a newbie fresh out of school (I know I will need a lot of hand holding because my confidence is terrible) it’ll be too much for him to handle training me, caring for the shelter animals, and managing the low cost services to the community. I’m so scared of going somewhere and picking up bad habits or not getting good guidance, especially with shelter med. I’ve laid out my different options, but I get varying responses depending on who I talk to. My options are: keep shadowing/externing at different shelters and seeing what the mentorship is like and possibly land a job there, go through the match process and do a (rotating? specialty shelter medicine?) internship, or start out in some GP setting (some shelter vets recommended this, even though zero part of me wants to do GP). Idk what I’m really asking here, I guess any advice on how to proceed. Literally every shelter vet I talk to tells me something different and I really want to make sure I start out strong when I graduate. I know it’s a bit early to be worried, but if I choose the match route (i also have no idea how competitive shelter med internships are??) then I need to start getting involved with stuff / make connections because right now I’m kinda just floating by …

 

[gobears2022]

Following bc I'm in the same boat :,) I also get conflicting information depending on who I talk to.

I'm personally leaning toward either working in GP for a few years and volunteering with shelters while I get more comfortable, or doing a shelter med specialty internship. But I also do not have a very strong aversion to working in GP so I feel okay with that possibility.

Do you have any desire to pursue ABVP specialization in shelter med? I've had a few vets tell me that it might be worth it to do the specialty internship --> residency route vs the experiential pathway if ABVP is something I really want to do (which I am still figuring out lol)

 

[JaynaAli]

@vetmedhead

 

[breezywonton]

Following bc I'm in the same boat :,) I also get conflicting information depending on who I talk to.

I'm personally leaning toward either working in GP for a few years and volunteering with shelters while I get more comfortable, or doing a shelter med specialty internship. But I also do not have a very strong aversion to working in GP so I feel okay with that possibility.

Do you have any desire to pursue ABVP specialization in shelter med? I've had a few vets tell me that it might be worth it to do the specialty internship --> residency route vs the experiential pathway if ABVP is something I really want to do (which I am still figuring out lol)

I was (still am?) strongly considering the ABVP route, but I'm trying to figure out if it's something I want to pursue. I think it would be amazing and give me a lot of valuable experience but I know there are few residency programs and current life situation idk if i can relocate very far for 3 years or so to pursue that. Some vets say i should do GP to get a "baseline", and i'm not totallyyy against GP but if i can still be a good shelter vet without doing GP first i would prefer that ...

 

[Mythical]

Shelter/community medicine vet here. Message me if you want to chat!

 

[SkiOtter]

@vetmedhead

Pretty sure she hasn’t logged in in like a year 😅 I also think she’s in GP now vs shelter

 

[JaynaAli]

Pretty sure she hasn’t logged in in like a year 😅 I also think she’s in GP now vs shelter

I wasn’t sure if she logged in still. I did know what her current employment is but figured she’d know about shelter internships since she did one and worked for a big name.

 

[battie]

If you decide to do ABVP without residency, you need to be 5 years out from graduation to go through the process. I've been actively considering for a year or so now.

I would say that if you want to do shelter med, then do shelter med stuff in school. Be active in the club, go do the surgery and community medicine days to gain that experience.

 

[breezywonton]

If you decide to do ABVP without residency, you need to be 5 years out from graduation to go through the process. I've been actively considering for a year or so now.

I would say that if you want to do shelter med, then do shelter med stuff in school. Be active in the club, go do the surgery and community medicine days to gain that experience.

yeah, after talking to Mythical, she said the ABVP residency is more geared towards medical directors/management and academia rather than surgical/clinical work, and I don’t think that’s the route I’m really looking for. I think doing at least a shelter med internship would be beneficial, though. I’m also going to reach out to some shelters in TN and OH to see if they'll let me come over the summer!

 

[battie]

yeah, after talking to Mythical, she said the ABVP residency is more geared towards medical directors/management and academia rather than surgical/clinical work

I don't really agree with this 100%. There are plenty of ABVP folks who are 100% clinical here in Denver. Just like any extra education, it's what you do with it that determines its worth to you. My goal is that the studying and exposure will make me a more thorough doctor. There is no real financial advantage though. @Trilt went through the whole shebang and is clinical (and has done some metal stuff with it too!).

 

[breezywonton]

I don't really agree with this 100%. There are plenty of ABVP folks who are 100% clinical here in Denver. Just like any extra education, it's what you do with it that determines its worth to you. My goal is that the studying and exposure will make me a more thorough doctor. There is no real financial advantage though. @Trilt went through the whole shebang and is clinical (and has done some metal stuff with it too!).

Oh I see. Maybe she was just referring to the shelter med ABVP. Theres really not many out there boarded in shelter med, but maybe I can find their contact information and reach out to see what they think.

 

[battie]

Oh I see. Maybe she was just referring to the shelter med ABVP. Theres really not many out there boarded in shelter med, but maybe I can find their contact information and reach out to see what they think.

Shelter med is definitely different in that the humans you deal with are administration types rather than clients with a decent number of patients since they are owned by the shelter. You're dealing with a board or a council, etc. on management decisions, including up to how you practice / financial worth of treating certain types of patients.

So that could be part of it.

 

[supershorty]

You also very much do not need to be boarded in anything to be a wonderful shelter vet. @Aprilthearab is a great example.

 

[Trilt]

yeah, after talking to Mythical, she said the ABVP residency is more geared towards medical directors/management and academia rather than surgical/clinical work, and I don’t think that’s the route I’m really looking for. I think doing at least a shelter med internship would be beneficial, though. I’m also going to reach out to some shelters in TN and OH to see if they'll let me come over the summer!

Yeah this might be for the shelter side of things, but absolutely isn't accurate for canine/feline or exotics. Most people who do ABVP do so out of self drive for improvement and I'd say the majority are in private practice, not academia or management.

Happy to answer any specific questions you may have. I could probably ping VMH for ya for shelter stuff if needed, too, but really the first step is just getting a bunch of experience in school.

 

[breezywonton]

Thank you all !! I’ll try my best right now to focus on shelter med experiences / externships in school and once it gets closer to applying for internships I can reevaluate

 

[Aprilthearab]

Feline-only shelter vet here! I went straight into shelter med after graduation. I found that doing pre-graduation shelter med work - in addition to taking ALL of the shelter med electives and doing as many spay/neuter rotations as possible - was extremely helpful. I actually draw on my pre-grad experience more than my (honestly minimal/subpar) new grad mentorship. There are a lot of aspects of shelter med that simply do not get taught in regular vet school classes, or get discussed for about 30 seconds before you forget them forever. If at all possible, you should try to use your breaks +- weekends/after-school time to work/volunteer/shadow as a shelter veterinary assistant (important that it isn't solely kennel work). Then, as you approach graduation, you might have a better idea of how much more mentorship you want or need as a new grad.

Pre-graduation GP assistant work was also useful just to get more experience following workups and practice hands-on skills. I wouldn't necessarily recommend GP as a new grad stepping stone if you already know shelter med is the goal because the two are quite different, but it's certainly not wrong to do some new grad GP work if it offers more mentorship than your shelter med opportunities.

In general, I don't recommend an internship or residency for someone wanting to do shelter med. You don't need them to do shelter med. You will already be in enough debt and likely burnt out from clinics. Just like GP, it's not wrong to do an internship/residency if you feel like you need that mentorship, but it's not necessary. Also, there are very very very few shelters out there who would ever expect you to have an internship, residency, or board certification under your belt. The VAST majority of them are just happy to have a caring veterinarian on their team - huge bonus if you're trained in population med.

There are many different perfectly acceptable pathways to shelter med. I think what matters the most is that you shouldn't walk into shelter med expecting it to be "GP without the clients" which is what some people think it is. It is its own specialty (that is still new grad friendly) with its own diversity of cases. For example, I treat and control outbreaks of more contagious diseases - calici, herpes, chlamydia, panleuk, ringworm, etc - in a month than most GPs probably see in five years, and I have seen GPs horribly misdiagnose/mistreat them, or provide completely inappropriate quarantine/isolation/cleaning instructions, if any at all. Balancing positive outcomes with extremely limited shelter finances, making behavioral euthanasia decisions, being ready to step up for more complicated procedures/workups when referral isn't an option, and advising on appropriate shelter housing aren't things all vets take to naturally, nor do GP jobs inherently train those skills. So, no matter what pathway you get into shelter med, make sure you still have solid shelter med training somewhere in your background that you're prepared to use!

 

[breezywonton]

Feline-only shelter vet here! I went straight into shelter med after graduation. I found that doing pre-graduation shelter med work - in addition to taking ALL of the shelter med electives and doing as many spay/neuter rotations as possible - was extremely helpful. I actually draw on my pre-grad experience more than my (honestly minimal/subpar) new grad mentorship. There are a lot of aspects of shelter med that simply do not get taught in regular vet school classes, or get discussed for about 30 seconds before you forget them forever. If at all possible, you should try to use your breaks +- weekends/after-school time to work/volunteer/shadow as a shelter veterinary assistant (important that it isn't solely kennel work). Then, as you approach graduation, you might have a better idea of how much more mentorship you want or need as a new grad.

Pre-graduation GP assistant work was also useful just to get more experience following workups and practice hands-on skills. I wouldn't necessarily recommend GP as a new grad stepping stone if you already know shelter med is the goal because the two are quite different, but it's certainly not wrong to do some new grad GP work if it offers more mentorship than your shelter med opportunities.

In general, I don't recommend an internship or residency for someone wanting to do shelter med. You don't need them to do shelter med. You will already be in enough debt and likely burnt out from clinics. Just like GP, it's not wrong to do an internship/residency if you feel like you need that mentorship, but it's not necessary. Also, there are very very very few shelters out there who would ever expect you to have an internship, residency, or board certification under your belt. The VAST majority of them are just happy to have a caring veterinarian on their team - huge bonus if you're trained in population med.

There are many different perfectly acceptable pathways to shelter med. I think what matters the most is that you shouldn't walk into shelter med expecting it to be "GP without the clients" which is what some people think it is. It is its own specialty (that is still new grad friendly) with its own diversity of cases. For example, I treat and control outbreaks of more contagious diseases - calici, herpes, chlamydia, panleuk, ringworm, etc - in a month than most GPs probably see in five years, and I have seen GPs horribly misdiagnose/mistreat them, or provide completely inappropriate quarantine/isolation/cleaning instructions, if any at all. Balancing positive outcomes with extremely limited shelter finances, making behavioral euthanasia decisions, being ready to step up for more complicated procedures/workups when referral isn't an option, and advising on appropriate shelter housing aren't things all vets take to naturally, nor do GP jobs inherently train those skills. So, no matter what pathway you get into shelter med, make sure you still have solid shelter med training somewhere in your background that you're prepared to use!

wow thank you for writing this all out, it helps a lot !!!

 

[Aprilthearab]

wow thank you for writing this all out, it helps a lot !!!

No problem! You (and anyone reading) are more than welcome to message me if you have more specific questions.

 

[Mythical]

Oh I see. Maybe she was just referring to the shelter med ABVP. Theres really not many out there boarded in shelter med, but maybe I can find their contact information and reach out to see what they think.

100%
Was referring to the subspecialty in shelter med 🙂