After November 1st?

[Peeshee]

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Hi, do most interviews/rejections come after November 1st when the Dean's letter is available for download? There are so many programs I have heard nothing from and am hoping that they are just waiting for the Dean's letter. I guess it is considered very important, although I don't see the reason for such importance bec. it basically reiterates everything in the LOR's.
Thanks!

 

[ishii123]

Hi, do most interviews/rejections come after November 1st when the Dean's letter is available for download? There are so many programs I have heard nothing from and am hoping that they are just waiting for the Dean's letter. I guess it is considered very important, although I don't see the reason for such importance bec. it basically reiterates everything in the LOR's.
Thanks!

Yep, lots of programs wait to review applications until the Deans Letter is released on Nov 1st.

The Deans Letter is important because it tells the Residency Program where you rank among your medical school peers. For example, my Deans Letter's states where I rank (top 20% of class, middle, bottom 20%). Other med school Deans Letters actually tell you the exact rank you are (eg. Number 4 of 180). This is very important, especially for the competitive specialties (eg. Ortho, Rads, Derm, etc). For example, a Residency Program can screen applications and decide to only review applications from people who are in the Top 20% of their med school class.

 

[chicamedica]

Yep, lots of programs wait to review applications until the Deans Letter is released on Nov 1st.

The Deans Letter is important because it tells the Residency Program where you rank among your medical school peers. For example, my Deans Letter's states where I rank (top 20% of class, middle, bottom 20%). Other med school Deans Letters actually tell you the exact rank you are (eg. Number 4 of 180). This is very important, especially for the competitive specialties (eg. Ortho, Rads, Derm, etc). For example, a Residency Program can screen applications and decide to only review applications from people who are in the Top 20% of their med school class.

Wow, weird my deans letter didn't say anything about rank. 😱 It did have bar graphs for each course that described the % of the class that got honors, pass, or fail. And it did list my grades. Dont know if my rank can be inferred from that. In any case, looks like I'm pretty much with the majority of the class.

 

[Poety]

my school doesn't rank either and it states in the letter "we do not rank our students" then it gives an overview of all the extra currics, how many in my class got passes, etc (so you can infer the rank im sure if you want to take the time) and then it gives you a degree of recommendation - i.e. strongly, very highly, highly, etc

 

[ishii123]

my school doesn't rank either and it states in the letter "we do not rank our students" then it gives an overview of all the extra currics, how many in my class got passes, etc (so you can infer the rank im sure if you want to take the time) and then it gives you a degree of recommendation - i.e. strongly, very highly, highly, etc

My med school does not rank, but you can interpret where you are among your peers. On the last sentence of the Deans Letter, it states the degree of recommendation - outstanding, excellent, superior, very good, and good (from descending order of distinction). "Outstanding" is the top 20% of the class and usually AOA. "Excellent" is the 20 - 40% of the class. "Superior" is the 40 - 60% of the class. Etc. Etc. The translation of these key words is explained in the cover letter of my medical school's Deans Letter.

A few med schools still give the exact ranking of the student. Example: John Smith is ranked number 10 out of 180 in his class.

For more info about Deans Letters and how they are supposed to be written (according to the AAMC), go to the following website:
http://www.aamc.org/students/eras/resources/start.htm
- Click on "A Guide to the Preparation of the Medical Student Performance Evaluation"

 

[chicamedica]

My med school does not rank, but you can interpret where you are among your peers. On the last sentence of the Deans Letter, it states the degree of recommendation - outstanding, excellent, superior, very good, and good (from descending order of distinction). "Outstanding" is the top 20% of the class and usually AOA. "Excellent" is the 20 - 40% of the class. "Superior" is the 40 - 60% of the class. Etc. Etc. The translation of these key words is explained in the cover letter of my medical school's Deans Letter.

A few med schools still give the exact ranking of the student. Example: John Smith is ranked number 10 out of 180 in his class.

For more info about Deans Letters and how they are supposed to be written (according to the AAMC), go to the following website:
http://www.aamc.org/students/eras/resources/start.htm
- Click on "A Guide to the Preparation of the Medical Student Performance Evaluation"

Wow thanks this is helpful! Yeah i do remember seeing a key word in there. I guess i'm in the 20-40% section. I guess that's not too bad, considering I'm not AOA. I've gone through med school totally oblivious as to how i'm doing wrt others, so it's nice to know i didnt' screw up too bad. if you didn't provide the definitions, thought, I'd think "superior" to be more strong of a compliment than "excellent".

 

[ishii123]

Wow thanks this is helpful! Yeah i do remember seeing a key word in there. I guess i'm in the 20-40% section. I guess that's not too bad, considering I'm not AOA. I've gone through med school totally oblivious as to how i'm doing wrt others, so it's nice to know i didnt' screw up too bad. if you didn't provide the definitions, thought, I'd think "superior" to be more strong of a compliment than "excellent".

FYI: Each medical school has their own "key words". So my med school's key word may not equal your med school's key word. Example: An "outstanding" at my school equals the top 20%. But at your med school, a "very superior" may equal the top 20%.

According to AAMC, each U.S. med school must provide a cover letter defining it's "key words".

 

[chicamedica]

FYI: Each medical school has their own "key words". So my med school's key word may not equal your med school's key word. Example: An "outstanding" at my school equals the top 20%. But at your med school, a "very superior" may equal the top 20%.

According to AAMC, each U.S. med school must provide a cover letter defining it's "key words".

Oh. Hmm, i didn't get provided with a key word list when reading my letter. I wonder if it's bad form to ask the ppl in the office for that list. I'm just very curious as to where I stand.

 

[robotsonic]

Oh. Hmm, i didn't get provided with a key word list when reading my letter. I wonder if it's bad form to ask the ppl in the office for that list. I'm just very curious as to where I stand.

If your school is using code words then they would have told you. At my school, the code words were a really big deal. When they finally released these key words this month, we had to go to the academic affairs office to open a confidential envelope that had a sheet in it with just our name and our code word.

Our code words were Outstanding, Excellent, Very Good, and Good. This was not based on any specific percentile, but what they do is rank everyone and then look for natural breaks in the ranking (like large gaps between people) and then assign the code words.

 

[Casey James]

FYI:

According to AAMC, each U.S. med school must provide a cover letter defining it's "key words".

Do you have a link to anywhere where that's stated.


My school used to give out a ranking (quartiles) untill this year. The dean is very insistant that "we do not rank our students" and made a big deal about how the 'top' schools were not ranking their students these days. I got a chance to review my deans letter. I wasn't even thinking about key words. I was more concerned about checking the comments in the evals. A few of them were inaccurate. One of them wasn't even about me. The idiot put a comment about another student in my dean's letter.

Could I straight up ask my dean if there are cryptic rank works in the letter? Why on earth would they want it to be a big secret to us?

 

[Casey James]

what they do is rank everyone and then look for natural breaks in the ranking (like large gaps between people) and then assign the code words.

I don't really understand what you mean there?

 

[jc237]

Hi guys, I'm "very good". 🙂

 

[chicamedica]

I'm a little confused though. If some schools use key words, and other schools dont, will programs really know this? or will they just assume that, say, "Excellent" means 2nd tier, based on other schools' systems? Even if programs are aware of this discrepancy among schools, I can see this being a subconscious phenomenon where readers will be like oh, this word generally means such and such (if there's no key). As such, i dont see the narrative part of the dean's letter as being all that important (at least as far as my schools' version goes), and instead serves the purpose of sharing some of the comments from subjective evals of each clerkship.

 

[lucyz02]

you guys are all lucky-
my school doesn't allow us to see our deans letter.
We have no idea what they even say about us...
🙄

I'm a little confused though. If some schools use key words, and other schools dont, will programs really know this? or will they just assume that, say, "Excellent" means 2nd tier, based on other schools' systems? Even if programs are aware of this discrepancy among schools, I can see this being a subconscious phenomenon where readers will be like oh, this word generally means such and such (if there's no key). As such, i dont see the narrative part of the dean's letter as being all that important (at least as far as my schools' version goes), and instead serves the purpose of sharing some of the comments from subjective evals of each clerkship.

 

[robotsonic]

I don't really understand what you mean there?

Ok, so even though my medical school does not give out number grades or ever let us know our ranking (they tell us that they don't rank us)... somehow, at the end of third year, they use some scoring system that does in fact rank us. Each person will have a score based on their grades so far. Let's say that the top 12 people all have similar scores, but the 13th person has a much lower score. Those top 12 would be outstanding while the 13th person would be lumped in the next group. Make sense? Maybe I'm really note being clear on this 😛

 

[Wednesday]

What's the point of having key words that correspond with percentiles? They can't really say that they don't rank you if they do that! That is the strangest thing I've ever heard. What's the point of a confidential envelope with your key word in it when you have access to the key--just write the rank!

I really think ranking is a part of life in med school. My school does thirds (top, middle, bottom) and then top 10% and top 10 students. It is clearly stated in the deans letter. Luckily we get to see them because some people's had glaring mistakes.

 

[robotsonic]

I agree that it is very ridiculous for them to insist again and again that we are not ranked when it is so clear that we are. I guess they just feel like we would be so devastated by learning our actual number ranking that they want to protect us from that... which is also ridiculous. I mean, the people who are "good" know that they are the bottom.

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
Many residency programs do not send out interview invitations until they are able to download the Deans Letters on Nov 1st. They have probably screened the applications based on USMLE/COMLEX and grades but they are waiting on the Deans letters for other intangibles.

Many choose to offer interviews before the Deans letters go out. This is usually because they want to get underway before it gets late in the season. Some programs have November deadlines and will offer interviews early. You really want to be sure that you have met all deadlines.

My general surgery program received about 600 applications for five categorical slots. They invited about 100 people for interview and ranked less than that. They waited for Deans letters before sending out invitations even though many folks had been invited elsewhere. They interview into January.

Even if you interview late, there is no penalty. Most programs rank interviewees on the same day as the interviews and hold one big rank meeting based on the individual rank meetings to set the final list.

I hope that this information helps.

njbmd 🙂

 

[merlin]

So it's not time to hit the panic button if my list of interviews is looking fairly unimpressive? I seem to have read in previous years people on this board saying that they received the majority of their interviews before the Dean's letter was released. cheers.

 

[ishii123]

So it's not time to hit the panic button if my list of interviews is looking fairly unimpressive? I seem to have read in previous years people on this board saying that they received the majority of their interviews before the Dean's letter was released. cheers.

It depends on the specialty you are applying to.

If you are applying for a competitive specialty (eg. Rads, Rad Onc, Derm, Ortho, Plastic Surg) or location (eg. Mass General, Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins), then many of these programs like to wait until after Nov 1st when the Deans letter is released to start screening out applicants.

However, many of less competitive specialties (eg. IM, Peds, FP, Psych) offer interviews before Nov 1st.

 

[ishii123]

I'm a little confused though. If some schools use key words, and other schools dont, will programs really know this? or will they just assume that, say, "Excellent" means 2nd tier, based on other schools' systems? Even if programs are aware of this discrepancy among schools, I can see this being a subconscious phenomenon where readers will be like oh, this word generally means such and such (if there's no key). As such, i dont see the narrative part of the dean's letter as being all that important (at least as far as my schools' version goes), and instead serves the purpose of sharing some of the comments from subjective evals of each clerkship.

The most important info on the Dean's Letter is the last paragragh, usually the last sentence. It will tell the reader where you rank among your peers either by percentile (top 20%, 20-40%, etc) or exact rank (number 5 of 120). Remember "code words" or "key words" sometimes reveal percentile, which is translated in the cover letter.

According to the Association of American Medical Colleges (AAMC), the Deans Letter is an overall evaluation of your med school performance. In the end, it will tell the reader where you rank amonth your peers and how you did during your clerkship rotations. It is a truthful and fairly accurate evaluation document. It is NOT a letter of recommendation and the evaluation portion cannot be altered.

The AAMC is trying to standardize all Dean's Letter and has set certain rules. If you're interested in more info about Deans Letters and how they are supposed to be written, go to the following website:
http://www.aamc.org/students/eras/resources/start.htm
- Click on "A Guide to the Preparation of the Medical Student Performance Evaluation"

 

[Casey James]

So when my dean made a big freaking deal of us not being ranked he was FOS then?

Is there ANY truth to this line he spun us that the "top schools aren't ranking their students". Why would he not want us to know we're being ranked if we are? That's not in the school's interest is it?


-casey

 

[ishii123]

So when my dean made a big freaking deal of us not being ranked he was FOS then?

Is there ANY truth to this line he spun us that the "top schools aren't ranking their students". Why would he not want us to know we're being ranked if we are? That's not in the school's interest is it?

-casey

From my understanding, med schools that "rank" are blunt and give your exact ranking in the class on the Dean's Letter.
Example: John Smith ranked 5 out of a class of 180.

Med schools that do NOT "rank", lump you into a percentile compared to your peers.
Example 1: John Smith was in the top 20 - 40% of the class.
Example 2: John Smith is an EXCELLENT candidate for a Radiology Residency. In this example "excellent" would mean the top 20 - 40% of the class and this code word would be defined/translated in the Cover Letter.