Age Question for Admission Committe Members

[cyrille104]

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And, if anyone cares, I think GRE scores are a crock. First quarter of veterinary school and I have a 3.7 GPA overall (all A's one B+). Really demonstrative of academics, huh?

Yeah, at what school? I actually like the GREs because they are the ultimate equalizer - an exam that all applicants have to take. Anyone can go to any old school and pull a good GPA, but the GREs can be used to assess the truthfulness of your GPA, and I know for a fact that at least some schools use it this way. I also don't buy it when people say they "do poorly on standardized tests". It's a test. Study and do well on it like you would in vet school.

 

[cyrille104]

I guess I was objecting to the term "950 is certainly not competitive". Not competitive implies we stop looking at that point and put the application on the bottom of the pile. Doesn't happen that way.

But I thought Illinois had strict first wave cutoffs 😕 Did you guys change it?

 

[Weazlebub]

But I thought Illinois had strict first wave cutoffs 😕 Did you guys change it?

I'm not at Illinois and I'm very glad we don't have a strict cutoff. We'd miss quality people like Mylez if we did. I gotta disagree with you about the great equalizer thing too. High GRE's mean you're good at standardized tests.. a worthwhile skill but not something (I believe) indicative of your ability to succeed in Vet school or as a veterinarian.

I was keeping track during our interviews.. Met some intelligent, interesting, well-rounded applicants with some pretty low GRE's.

I do agree with you about the variability of GPA's. There is much grade inflation out there.. but that's true in vet school too. That's why we use Vet school class rank instead of GPA to evaluate intern and resident applicants.

 

[ri23]

I agree with Cyrille. Also, though this is completely anecdotal and there are obviously some exceptions, SAT scores and GRE scores seemed to correlate pretty well to how people did academically.

 

[dyachei]

Sorry to hijack the thread, BUT...

I had a GRE score of 950.

On first application, first try, I made it into veterinary school as an OOS student, later receiving WICHE funding.

Guess I'm one of those rare students whose application finds their way to the adcoms desk (and FYI, I was top ranked in the WICHE students for /CSU/, my ranking at WSU was what destroyed me for getting WICHE originally).

And, if anyone cares, I think GRE scores are a crock. First quarter of veterinary school and I have a 3.7 GPA overall (all A's one B+). Really demonstrative of academics, huh?

No one is saying that you absolutely can't get into a vet school with a 950 GRE score. But it isn't that competitive. The hypothetical posed asked what would happen if everything were equal except age and the GRE. My guess, Mylez, is that you had great experience and a good to great GPA when applying. Maybe even a good PS. But if you had a choice between a candidate with all those things plus a much better GRE score, what would you do?

 

[Mylez]

I graduated with a 3.7 GPA at my undergraduate school. While many would beg to differ, I graduated from a school that has a wonderful, solid pre-veterinary background (as stated to me on multiple occasions by admissions members). My experience was pretty good, but it wasn't like I had 1000's of hours worth of veterinary experience.

And, cyrille, what does it matter what veterinary school I am attending? Vet school is vet school, you graduate with a DVM on your name whether you graduate from Tufts or from somewhere in the Caribbean or overseas. I am confident that my good grades will continue throughout school.

Honestly, the GRE tells you nothing about how you will be academically and least of all how you'll be as a vet. I am glad that schools have started to take the entire individual into account rather than just numbers (and, again, for the record, I was accepted at a school that used to rank based on the point system!)

Many schools are talking about eliminating the GRE altogether. I think this would be a good idea.

PS, thanks Weazle.

While I don't feel that people should look at me and think, Hey, she got in with a crappy GRE, I can too! I do think that it isn't impossible and can be done given the right attitude and approach.

I don't see the GRE being the defining point in an application. There are so many other things that make or break an applicant, I hardly see the GRE being the cut off point (honestly, what two applicants are THAT similar?)

 

[Weazlebub]

And, cyrille, what does it matter what veterinary school I am attending? Vet school is vet school, you graduate with a DVM on your name whether you graduate from Tufts or from somewhere in the Caribbean or overseas. I am confident that my good grades will continue throughout school.

Cyrille's getting A VMD.. As much trouble as I've had with VMD interns and residents in the past and just when I though I could generalize.. someone comes along and makes up for all the bad apples (I am working with a couple of fantastic VMD's now)

I just wish hard work, common sense and a great personality showed up on these standardized tests.

 

[clawsbeatskin]

Is there really a difference between DVM and VMD? I realize the latter is granted at Penn, but I thought they were equivalent degrees. I thought VMD was just a more literal abbreviation of the Latin.

 

[MISSV]

Just thought I'd add my two cents to this discussion. I doubt the GRE predicts how well you will do in vet school. In fact, it probably is best at showing how well you do on the GRE. It is, however, a test that can be used to compare all applicants. GPAs vary from school to school, and since admissions people always seem to like quantitative data to compare applicants, the GRE is used.

While I don't have any anecdotes related to the GRE, I will say that I did really well on the SAT in high school and had a really rough first year of college. I was actually told that the SAT is supposed to predict the liklihood a student will finish their first year of college, not how well he/she will do.

That's all.

 

[nyanko]

Is there really a difference between DVM and VMD? I realize the latter is granted at Penn, but I thought they were equivalent degrees. I thought VMD was just a more literal abbreviation of the Latin.

I think it was a bit of a poke at UPenn students in general.

 

[ri23]

No one said that the GRE is the defining point of an application, but it is still a consideration. I know for Ohio at least, the cutoff is 1000 and anything below that you must petition for an interview opportunity. Some schools also will give you credit if you've taken the GRE multiple times trying to improve your score.

The fact that Cyrille thinks the GRE is a good thing to have in the admissions process really isn't saying anything bad about Penn or the vets that graduate from Penn. It is a great school.

As for Mylez's comment - what schools are considering taking the GRE out of the admissions process? I haven't heard anything about that.

 

[aretoo]

In Canada we write the MCATs (at OVC anyway).

 

[CalpardNY]

I just wish hard work, common sense and a great personality showed up on these standardized tests.

Now wouldn't that be nice?! Maybe with a little determination, drive, and passion thrown in for good measure! 😉

 

[fargeese]

Personally the GRE has helped me, because I went to a very competitive school, and was only able to get a 3.4 GPA. No offense is intended to anyone, but I know I would have gotten a significantly higher GPA at one of my state schools, and it is upsetting to be at a disadvantage now because I chose to go to a challenging school. I am glad I got the education I did, and I would have been bored senseless at the local state U, but it hurts my app. when everyone else is applying with a 4.0, and I had to work my butt off for a 3.4, at a school that grades an A as 95 or up, as opposed to 90 or up like many schools, etc.

Not meant as a complaint per se, but for me, my great GRE score helps equalize my application against candidates whose schools practice grade inflation or aren't very rigorous, so I am all for it.

 

[Weazlebub]

but for me, my great GRE score helps equalize my application against candidates whose schools practice grade inflation or aren't very rigorous, so I am all for it.

No argument there. I do think a high GRE score will help someone with an average GPA more than a bad GRE will hurt someone with solid academics (high credit load and good UDS grades).

 

[CanadianDVM]

WCVM in Saskatoon doesn't utilize any standardized tests in the admin process - just your undergrad grades, LORs and interviews. I'm pretty pleased I didn't have to write that test.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Originally Posted by fargeese
but for me, my great GRE score helps equalize my application against candidates whose schools practice grade inflation or aren't very rigorous, so I am all for it.

I must say, as much as I would prefer having the MCAT in place of the GRE....I am in the same boat. I did my bachelors in Biochemistry with an inorganic chemistry minor, and squeaked out with a 3.46 or so. Am I going to brag and say that a tough major? You're damn right it is. A score of 94 and above was an A, no exceptions. 93.9? Tough. Yet, I know there were lots of other majors out there who rolled in with 4.0s. But I destroyed the GRE, and I'm sure that helped bump me up a few more notches.

The GRE is an academic equalizer, sure. But I think the MCAT would be a better, more applicable one. Just as long as I don't have to take it, that is 😉

I still think that they put too much emphasis on it, though....someone said 25% somewhere? That's ridiculous.

 

[CalpardNY]

Personally the GRE has helped me, because I went to a very competitive school, and was only able to get a 3.4 GPA. No offense is intended to anyone, but I know I would have gotten a significantly higher GPA at one of my state schools, and it is upsetting to be at a disadvantage now because I chose to go to a challenging school.
...

Not meant as a complaint per se, but for me, my great GRE score helps equalize my application against candidates whose schools practice grade inflation or aren't very rigorous, so I am all for it.

I am in a similar boat, lower GPA at a more competitive school in a more competitive major, but did well on my GREs so I agree. However, I thought that a lot of schools had as a component to their evaluation "rigor of academic experience," taking into account both the school you went to and the courses you took. I know cornell does. So even though this doesn't standardize applicants in terms of GPA, it is a way for them to make it more fair when we all know how variable grades can be from one professor to the next - no less degree and school!

 

[UVA Wahoo]

Fargeese, I could have written your post myself! My GRE score had to have been what got me interviews, since my GPA was more of a reflection of doing a distinguished major's program at a very competitive school. In fact, at VA-MD when I asked the admissions counselor lady if they factored in the difficulty or competitiveness of your undergraduate program I got a flat out "no"... But she said that GRE score could be a reflection of this... Now I don't know how much I totally agree with her, but it seems to have been true in my case.

 

[Weazlebub]

I thought that a lot of schools had as a component to their evaluation "rigor of academic experience," taking into account both the school you went to and the courses you took. I know cornell does. So even though this doesn't standardize applicants in terms of GPA, it is a way for them to make it more fair when we all know how variable grades can be from one professor to the next - no less degree and school!

I think we try to do this.. and for well known schools like Cornell this is true. The problem is there are so many little schools out there that may have really tough programs.. If the AdComs haven't heard of the school there's no way they can know.. So here's a hint. Tell them in your personal/explanation statement. Also a good idea to have one of your letter writers be someone from the school or a Professor from a particularly tough class. Ask them to comment on the rigors of the program. It helps educate the AdComs about the lesser known schools.

 

[CalpardNY]

Thats a good point, and good advice - thanks weazle!

I actually did that in my "additional info" essays (you know the ones that are like - anything else you want us to know about you but couldn't fit into all the specific info we requested!). And I know my school's HPAC letter has an explanation of our english/writing corsework track since they believe its above and beyond 2 semesters of english and most science majors graduate with all these classes whose title and department don't seem to satisfy requirements! So i guess there are ways to fit it in so the schools can evaluate you more accurately!

 

[cyrille104]

Is there really a difference between DVM and VMD? I realize the latter is granted at Penn, but I thought they were equivalent degrees. I thought VMD was just a more literal abbreviation of the Latin.

Weazle is just talking trash about Penn. I would LOVE to know which school she's an adcom at.

 

[Weazlebub]

Weazle is just talking trash about Penn. I would LOVE to know which school she's an adcom at.

I'm over Penn trashing (today). I'm having much bigger problems with a Davis grad and a Mizzoo grad right now... They both looked great on paper 🙁 and both with GRE's > 1400! go figure

 

[pupsforseeing]

While the GRE (or MCAT or any standardized test) may have its faults, there needs to be *some* way to standardize applications. Not to say they should be given a ton of weight, but it may shed a little bit of light when someone graduates with a 4.0 and is in the 20th percentile on the GREs compared to someone who may only have a 3.3 or 3.4 but is in the 90th.

I did my first 60 credits at a local state school and came out with a 4.0 (while simultaneously having a full high school load, extracurriculars, working 15-20 hours/wk and having a somewhat normal social life!). But, I have worked *way* harder for and am much more proud of my 3.84 at the small liberal arts school I'm at now (that no one outside of PA/OH has ever heard of...but is regionally known for their rigorous sciences and core humanities). All to say that I've learned that a 4.0 can mean not-a-whole-lot.

 

[ri23]

I think we try to do this.. and for well known schools like Cornell this is true. The problem is there are so many little schools out there that may have really tough programs.. If the AdComs haven't heard of the school there's no way they can know.. So here's a hint. Tell them in your personal/explanation statement. Also a good idea to have one of your letter writers be someone from the school or a Professor from a particularly tough class. Ask them to comment on the rigors of the program. It helps educate the AdComs about the lesser known schools.

Don't you guys have a consult book of all of the universities in the country with their ranking as far as noncompetitive, competitive, very competitive etc? Before we do interviews we look up lesser known schools rank in a book like that in order to get a handle on those types of schools.

I definitely wouldn't solely rely on the word of an applicant. I'm sure you would be hard pressed to find someone that says they went to a noncompetitive program, and really, unless they went to a number of schools, how would they know?

 

[ri23]

Weazle is just talking trash about Penn. I would LOVE to know which school she's an adcom at.

Agreed. I would also like to know how many schools don't have a minimum cut off for GPA/GRE scores.

 

[clawsbeatskin]

Agreed. I would also like to know how many schools don't have a minimum cut off for GPA/GRE scores.

CSU & Western, just off the top of my head...

 

[Weazlebub]

Don't you guys have a consult book of all of the universities in the country with their ranking as far as noncompetitive, competitive, very competitive etc? Before we do interviews we look up lesser known schools rank in a book like that in order to get a handle on those types of schools.

I definitely wouldn't solely rely on the word of an applicant. I'm sure you would be hard pressed to find someone that says they went to a noncompetitive program, and really, unless they went to a number of schools, how would they know?

You're joking? Does such a reference exist (and the Barron's directory doesn't count). How much time do you think we have to research this info on 1500+ applicants? If you're going to a small but tough liberal arts school it's up to you to educate us. I agree that the applicant's word may be a bit biased, but a letter from a tough professor or advisor noting the rigor of your program is very appropriate.

 

[ri23]

You're joking? Does such a reference exist (and the Barron's directory doesn't count). How much time do you think we have to research this info on 1500+ applicants? If you're going to a small but tough liberal arts school it's up to you to educate us. I agree that the applicant's word may be a bit biased, but a letter from a tough professor or advisor noting the rigor of your program is very appropriate.

Yes, I was referring to Barron's. At least it gives you a rudimentary sense of a school, especially one that you have never heard of. For example, if you interview someone that goes to a very small liberal arts college and you know nothing about it the fact that it is listed as extremely competitive will at least give you an idea of where that student stands. I can't imagine how looking at that directory (which takes all of 2 minutes) would be too troublesome. Granted, no book is going to have all the information you may desire, but at least it is a base assessment of schools.

Also, as an adcomm, I'm assuming that you don't personally look through every single application. If it is a school that you interview at you probably only thoroughly read through those applications, score them, and rely on the knowledge and experience of your colleagues for the others.

 

[Weazlebub]

At least it gives you a rudimentary sense of a school, especially one that you have never heard of

Also, as an adcomm, I'm assuming that you don't personally look through every single application. If it is a school that you interview at you probably only thoroughly read through those applications, score them, and rely on the knowledge and experience of your colleagues for the others.

Rudimentary is a good word.. Competitive/less competitive.. tells you nothing of grade inflation or rigor of an individual class.

You are correct about not reading all 1500+.. I only had to read 260 this year.. still sucked most of my free time November and December..

But I wouldn't do it if I didn't like the process.

Barron's.. sheesh!

 

[chris03333]

CSU & Western, just off the top of my head...

Western has a GPA cut off (its only 2.5 but it is still there)

 

[ri23]

Rudimentary is a good word.. Competitive/less competitive.. tells you nothing of grade inflation or rigor of an individual class.

You are correct about not reading all 1500+.. I only had to read 260 this year.. still sucked most of my free time November and December..

But I wouldn't do it if I didn't like the process.

Barron's.. sheesh!

No, but it does give you statistics on admissions, which can be helpful. Schools that are very selective are usually more competitive. I think it definitely gives you a start. Granted, no, it doesn't tell you much about grade inflation, but it acts as an additional easy source that with other information garnered from the application (GRE - the grade equalizer as we were saying) can give you a better picture of the school/program.

 

[Weazlebub]

No, but it does give you statistics on admissions, which can be helpful. Schools that are very selective are usually more competitive. I think it definitely gives you a start. Granted, no, it doesn't tell you much about grade inflation, but it acts as an additional easy source that with other information garnered from the application (GRE - the grade equalizer as we were saying) can give you a better picture of the school/program.

Not really helpful for what you're suggesting. Competitive to get into to and how inflated grades are are separate issues. If there was a non-biased way to compare the difficulty/grading of all schools it might beck nice comparison.. But there ain't... Too many schools.. Too many variables. Barron's rating just doesn't cut it.

 

[ri23]

Not really helpful for what you're suggesting. Competitive to get into to and how inflated grades are are separate issues. If there was a non-biased way to compare the difficulty/grading of all schools it might beck nice comparison.. But there ain't... Too many schools.. Too many variables. Barron's rating just doesn't cut it.

I understand that, and addressed it in my post. I said the rating wasn't perfect, just like the GRE isn't perfect; the fact is that there isn't going to be any one perfect way to figure everything out about an applicant. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean that it can't be a useful tool in order to paint a more complete picture of the applicant.

 

[RemyRipper315]

I don't know about th GRE being the great qualizer, but a high score can help those with a not-so-stellar GPA.

Personally, I sucked at the GRE. The first time I took it in June before I applied and earned a 1010 (my fault, I didn't really study). I bought a book and took it for the 2nd time in July before I applied and earned an 1190. I did about the same on the SAT (1060 and then 1170 or 1190 the 2nd time). Studying more MIGHT have helped, but who knows. That said, I went to a state school with a great agricultural college in undergrad and earned a decent GPA. Luckily I'm where I am now and doing 'A'-okay, at least the 1st semester was anyhow.....

 

[Weazlebub]

Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean that it can't be a useful tool in order to paint a more complete picture of the applicant.

I don't think our system is broken. So I'm thinking I won't be adding Barron's ranking to paint a more complete picture. But I will bring your proposal to our end of admissions cycle post mortem meeting.

 

[RemyRipper315]

ri, does Ohio State use Barron's or something??? Just wondering. I know you had mentioned before you were able to sit in on some interviews, so you might know something about their admissions process.

 

[ri23]

ri, does Ohio State use Barron's or something??? Just wondering. I know you had mentioned before you were able to sit in on some interviews, so you might know something about their admissions process.

Different interviewers have their own styles of interviewing/reviewing applications etc. The book is available to look at if the interviewer prefers, though most of the schools that people are applying from are pretty well known. There were a couple of schools though that I had never heard of and the book was helpful to get a grasp on how competitive the school was (one school was a very small liberal arts school and it was apparently very very competitive, which I would not have guessed).

As for Weazlebub's comment - I obviously wasn't implying that your admission's process was broken or that you should add that into your system. I just thought it was another helpful tool, granted not perfect, to help in determining scores for areas like academic rigor.

 

[cyrille104]

I don't think our system is broken. So I'm thinking I won't be adding Barron's ranking to paint a more complete picture. But I will bring your proposal to our end of admissions cycle post mortem meeting.

Didn't schools used to use a rating system from -3 to +3 to determine what your GPA was actually worth? I know Penn did some years ago. They have since abandoned it, though. I don't think using something like Barron's is legitimate, and I don't necessarily think using a rating system works either, but I do think that some credit should be given for the difficulty of the school you go to. I feel that it is the responsibility of the adcoms to be familiar with most schools in the country. I went to a difficult top tier university for undergrad and I had the head of an admissions committee tell me last year that she had never heard of it - and while I certainly don't expect everyone to be familiar with it, I would definitely expect adcoms to at least have heard of it.

This is also why I think that the GRE should be used to loosely judge the quality of your GPA. I do agree that someone with a low GRE shouldn't be thrown out, but in combination with adcom familiarity with schools, I don't think it would be that much of a problem. I know you say that if you skip someone with a 950 GRE that you could be passing up some great vets, but you could say that about a lot of people with low GPAs that get rejected, too. A lot of people that get rejected every year would have made great vets. Unfortunately, the applicant pool is so competitive that there's only room for the cream of the crop. And I don't mean by the numbers - IMO interviews are the most important part of the application process. I don't understand schools that don't interview, that just seems irresponsible to me.

 

[pupsforseeing]

It restored some of my faith in the system when, at my Penn interview, I was told that they actually do pull out the college guides (Barron's, Princeton Review, etc.) when they get applications from schools they've never heard of and, further, they will also call other vet schools in that region to learn about some of the smaller schools. He told me that they had had another school call them recently to ask about my school (in western PA, that I'm sure no adcoms except Penn, OSU and maybe Purdue have ever heard of). I was glad to hear that maybe my application wouldn't be docked just because I have a good GPA from a no-name school, but maybe adcoms really are taking the time to figure out that it does mean something.

 

[Weazlebub]

I feel that it is the responsibility of the adcoms to be familiar with most schools in the country.

You're kidding right? Do you have that kind of time? I don't.

I said this before and I was serious. If you think you went to a tough school and want the adcoms to know.. Tell them and have your letter writers tell them. If you just hope they follow Cyrille's advice and research every university and college in the country you will be disappointed.

 

[Pennvet]

I am sure that 95% percent of you kids will be just fine as vets. Though if I don't get in, I reserve the right to blame it "on those meddling kids"

I know that I'm not far behind, but I am glad that I'm still in my 20's😛.

I suggest that you study kaplan's gre book. It would have been better to do so before taking the test, but whatever. If you master this book, your gre score will rise, dramatically.

 

[nyanko]

pupsforseeing - I know it's a derail but which liberal arts school in western PA do you go to? If you don't want to post it here you can PM me. I'm from western PA originally and you've piqued my curiosity. 🙂

 

[VetMed555]

Sorry, but this thread makes me mad just a little...
I didn't go to a very competitive school because of where my husband is stationed (yes, some of us are returning students restricted by location and *Gasp* money). My "less competitive school" offered me a full academic-based scholarship, and my major is chemistry. According to some people here, I should get fewer points just because of how my school ranks?😡 I can definitely say I worked my butt off for my 3.9. None of my grades were "given" to me easily. I think that often "my school is more competitive than yours!" is just a cheap excuse for lower GPA. If we study from the same organic chem. book, and EVERY chapter of the organic book was written by the same Harvard graduates, and we are tested on the same material, than how can one say their grade is better than mine because of how their school ranks?!? Not to mention the fact that often the ranking has NOTHING to do with the quality of the program itself, and everything to do with how much money the school is getting for things like research. It REALLY irks me when people say they should be viewed differently because of what school they went to as undergrads. GPA is GPA, and GRE is GRE. And if we are going to compare such intangible things as quality of academic programs...let's talk about animal science, liberal arts, and humanities majors vs. biochemistry, chemistry, physics, and engineering...

Off my soap box now.😡

 

[VAgirl]

Because the exams are harder and the people are smarter, making the curve more difficult.

It's also harder because you have to cram all of those egos into one classroom, which greatly reduces the amount of room left over for learning.🙄

While I do agree that there is a difference between some schools and I understand the desire to take strength of academic program into consideration, I don't think the corollary to this concept is that someone's high academic achievement means less because it was obtained at a lower tier school. I know some damn smart people who've come out of community colleges. For those who are lazy and would rather judge people based off of an easy metric, sure, just look at the school. But you might regret being so hasty later on. As VetMed555 points out, sometimes the school you attended is a reflection of other factors, not how smart or high achieving you are.

(And for those who will be quick to label me as having university envy, I have degrees from two of the nation's top tier universities. Which, while giving me a nice education, also gave me a lot of debt. Which again goes back to VetMed555's point.)

 

[UVA Wahoo]

I don't think the point is that your 3.9 at a "less competitive school" is not something you worked hard for, or that it should have any less value. A 3.9 is something to be respected, regardless of where you earned it!

My feelings are, that someone who went to a "most competitive school" should be given similar respect for earning a slightly lesser GPA, since he or she was competing for grades with a pool of other very bright students.

I totally understand your reasons for attending the school you did and I know your 3.9 will speak for itself. However, I worked incredibly hard to earn a 3.47 at my top 25 undergraduate university, and I believe I deserve some credit for that too! :0)

 

[cyrille104]

I don't think the point is that your 3.9 at a "less competitive school" is not something you worked hard for, or that it should have any less value. A 3.9 is something to be respected, regardless of where you earned it!

My feelings are, that someone who went to a "most competitive school" should be given similar respect for earning a slightly lesser GPA, since he or she was competing for grades with a pool of other very bright students.

I totally understand your reasons for attending the school you did and I know your 3.9 will speak for itself. However, I worked incredibly hard to earn a 3.47 at my top 25 undergraduate university, and I believe I deserve some credit for that too! :0)

Thanks, I deleted my post because you expressed it better and mine sounded snotty.

 

[BobDog]

I think, for the most part, we are a group of people who like to think logically. This makes us want a way to judge schools and then use these rankings to adjust people's GPAs. How is it even remotely possible to "rank" schools? It sounds ridiculous to me. There are just too many factors. This is the same reason no one pays any attention to the vet school rankings. What are the criteria?

Additionally, there are competitive and non-competitive majors at ALL schools. A 4.0 in a non-competitive major at a top-tier school is no better than 3.5 in a competitive major at those rotten state schools. Who cares how the people who populate those "top-tier" schools did in high school (or who their daddy knew 😀)? I think if you have a tough major with tough upper division science classes at any school, you will work for your grades.

 

[ri23]

Sorry, but this thread makes me mad just a little...
I didn't go to a very competitive school because of where my husband is stationed (yes, some of us are returning students restricted by location and *Gasp* money). My "less competitive school" offered me a full academic-based scholarship, and my major is chemistry. According to some people here, I should get fewer points just because of how my school ranks?😡 I can definitely say I worked my butt off for my 3.9. None of my grades were "given" to me easily. I think that often "my school is more competitive than yours!" is just a cheap excuse for lower GPA. If we study from the same organic chem. book, and EVERY chapter of the organic book was written by the same Harvard graduates, and we are tested on the same material, than how can one say their grade is better than mine because of how their school ranks?!? Not to mention the fact that often the ranking has NOTHING to do with the quality of the program itself, and everything to do with how much money the school is getting for things like research. It REALLY irks me when people say they should be viewed differently because of what school they went to as undergrads. GPA is GPA, and GRE is GRE. And if we are going to compare such intangible things as quality of academic programs...let's talk about animal science, liberal arts, and humanities majors vs. biochemistry, chemistry, physics, and engineering...

Off my soap box now.😡

Usually when you are being judged on your academic program it is not only the school that you attended, that is just one factor. They also look at your major, the number of credit hours taken each quarter, as well as the strength of your classes and the program. They really do try to take everything into account.

 

[VetMed555]

I think, for the most part, we are a group of people who like to think logically. This makes us want a way to judge schools and then use these rankings to adjust people's GPAs. How is it even remotely possible to "rank" schools? It sounds ridiculous to me. There are just too many factors. This is the same reason no one pays any attention to the vet school rankings. What are the criteria?

Additionally, there are competitive and non-competitive majors at ALL schools. A 4.0 in a non-competitive major at a top-tier school is no better than 3.5 in a competitive major at those rotten state schools. Who cares how the people who populate those "top-tier" schools did in high school (or who their daddy knew 😀)? I think if you have a tough major with tough upper division science classes at any school, you will work for your grades.

I second that. 😀