Age-related interview question - "you're old"

[dejadr]

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Hi all. I'm a non-trad student, 40 years old. Had an interview last week and my first interviewer said something to the effect "I've no doubt you can succeed in the first two years of med school. But you're not a young guy, the attendings will run you ragged in third year. You have to be in the hospital at 4am sometimes. Stressful, etc." I was taken aback. Not really about how do you handle stress, but you're old and can you get your old bones up at 4am. (40 isn't old by the way).

Here's what I said: I have 20 years more experience dealing with stress than most applicants. I have set support systems with partner and family to deal with stress. I have dealt with stress and demanding colleagues while completing a dissertation. And, my success proves that if I have to get up at 4am, I do it. I'm goal-oriented and make it happen.

I had a great second interviewer who actually sits on the adcom. I even discussed some of the issues with him from my first interview.

What are your thoughts? It is my understanding that age is off limits. By the way, the interviewer was about 75 years old.

Good luck to all.

 

[gyngyn]

If you feel that your interviewer was unnecessarily confrontational you should contact the dean of admissions. Half of the purpose of a traditional interview is recruitment. No dean wants to invite someone only to have them belittled or made to feel unworthy.

 

[dejadr]

Thanks. He ended the interview with "What will you do if you don't get in?" So, yep, not really given me good vibes.

 

[RecycleRinsed]

It's a ridiculous question that makes no more sense than "You're 22 years old and have never held a full-time job. How's that going to work out during clerkships and residency?"

Even though it's not even legal to ask about stuff like this or "you have a family. OMG, how will you balance everything!?" I actually liked answering questions like this rather than the stock questions. They give you an opportunity to show why you're different from the pile of pre-med drones they have to sort through.

It's hard to imagine a committee outright discriminating against you base on age or family status, but if they do just be glad you didn't end up at a place that a) behaves illegally and unethically and b) doesn't value non-traditional students and experiences.

Good luck to you, brother.

 

[osprey099]

I had the opposite problem. One of my interviewers questioned my maturity since I'm only 20 years old right now. I don't think age related questions are off limits because if you are too young (my case), they want to see if you are mature enough and if you are too "old" (your case), they want to see if you share the same passion and enthusiasm about medicine a 22-25 yer old will feel. I think you responded very well to the interviewer's question though.

 

[primadonna22274]

Ridiculous. I'm 39 but pass for early thirties at most. If you are energetic, fit and can do the work and are motivated to do it, that kind of arbitrary age discrimination is unfounded. (I do admit, however, that fear of this same thing contributes to my vanity in keeping myself looking young!)

 

[dejadr]

I'm with you. I look about 30 which the guy even acknowledged. I guess I just need to let it go and hope that second interviewer represented me positively, which he said he would. I wrote on anonymous eval that interviewer asked age-based question and made me feel like I wasn't going to get in based on short conversation.

Catharsis done! Thanks all and best of luck.

 

[CarlosDanger]

.

 

[basketcase0a0]

.

 

[gyngyn]

I never thought about contacting the admissions office about it, I just assumed that would make it a lot worse,

It's not too late to make things better for others.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Thanks. He ended the interview with "What will you do if you don't get in?" So, yep, not really given me good vibes.

Obviously that other stuff was a little uncalled for, but this question in particular I think is a common one and didn't have anything to do with your age. I was 21 when I interviewed (and probably looked even younger) and was asked this question at every school.

 

[dejadr]

Yep, I get the "not get in" question. It was just a little oddly placed right after age question and when we were standing up and had shaken hands goodbye. It was all just odd. This wasn't my first interview, nor will be my last. Plus, had a good 2nd interview. We'll see in upcoming weeks. Thanks for support all. I'm thick-skinned even if I'm old. 😉

 

[BlueLabel]

Yep, I get the "not get in" question. It was just a little oddly placed right after age question and when we were standing up and had shook hands goodbye. It was all just odd. This wasn't my first interview, nor will be my last. Plus, had a good 2nd interview. We'll see in upcoming weeks. Thanks for support all. I'm thick-skinned even if I'm old. 😉

Doesn't seem very couth to ask about your age in that way. But it sounds like you handled the question perfectly.

 

[CyberMaxx]

Age is not off limits. In fact, nothing is off limits in an interview.

I guess 'nothing is off limits' in the sense that an interviewer can ask whatever they want, but I think that there are certainly inappropriate questions. For example, a Ph.D. at my university used to be on the ADCOM and was famous for asking inappropriate questions. He once asked an applicant how much she weighed.

A medical school interview (or really any interview) is a situation of dramatically skewed power roles, and it is easy to feel pressured in to answering questions which seem off. However, if this happens (and I'm sure it is rare) I believe that it is perfectly reasonable to find a tactful way of letting the interviewer know that the line of questioning is inappropriate and transitioning to a different topic.

 

[BlackBox]

Hi all. I'm a non-trad student, 40 years old. Had an interview last week and my first interviewer said something to the effect "I've no doubt you can succeed in the first two years of med school. But you're not a young guy, the attendings will run you ragged in third year. You have to be in the hospital at 4am sometimes. Stressful, etc." I was taken aback. Not really about how do you handle stress, but you're old and can you get your old bones up at 4am. (40 isn't old by the way).

Here's what I said: I have 20 years more experience dealing with stress than most applicants. I have set support systems with partner and family to deal with stress. I have dealt with stress and demanding colleagues while completing a dissertation. And, my success proves that if I have to get up at 4am, I do it. I'm goal-oriented and make it happen.

I had a great second interviewer who actually sits on the adcom. I even discussed some of the issues with him from my first interview.

What are your thoughts? It is my understanding that age is off limits. By the way, the interviewer was about 75 years old.

Good luck to all.

I'm an older applicant too (32) and a bit surprised by the wording of that first question, but you handled it perfectly. Your answer seemed direct and with conviction. If you delivered it without too much emotion (which I suspect you did), it would be flawless.

On a related note, I have recently been wondering this:

As some people get older, they tend to get stuck-in-their-ways. I wonder what some ADCOMS think about this. Do they perceive older candidates as being inflexible? Having a hard time adjusting to new challenges? Being able to take grief from physicians that may be younger than you... pay your "dues?"

I've come to the conclusion that it's simply person-specific and unrelated to age.

 

[dejadr]

Good points. The second interviewer and I did discuss the "taking orders from physicians younger than you" issue. Which is valid, but he presented it more like "you're top of profession now, how will it be for you to take step down, etc."

I guess my main confusion is that interviews are part of admissions process and most of these non-discrimination clauses include age. Again, theory vs. practice paradox, I guess.

 

[Goro]

Whoa!!! That interviewer DID cross a line and you must, I repeat, MUST tell the Dean of Admissions at that school about this. it's the only way the system can get rid of inappropriate or incompetent interviewers.

This steams me because some of my all-time best students have been in their 30s and 40s.

Age is simply a number.

Hi all. I'm a non-trad student, 40 years old. Had an interview last week and my first interviewer said something to the effect "I've no doubt you can succeed in the first two years of med school. But you're not a young guy, the attendings will run you ragged in third year. You have to be in the hospital at 4am sometimes. Stressful, etc." I was taken aback. Not really about how do you handle stress, but you're old and can you get your old bones up at 4am. (40 isn't old by the way).

Here's what I said: I have 20 years more experience dealing with stress than most applicants. I have set support systems with partner and family to deal with stress. I have dealt with stress and demanding colleagues while completing a dissertation. And, my success proves that if I have to get up at 4am, I do it. I'm goal-oriented and make it happen.

I had a great second interviewer who actually sits on the adcom. I even discussed some of the issues with him from my first interview.

What are your thoughts? It is my understanding that age is off limits. By the way, the interviewer was about 75 years old.

Good luck to all.

 

[PinknGreenMD]

Wow what a great response! That Guy was probably impressed how u handled yourself and your response!! God job!

 

[pietachok]

Had an interview last week and my first interviewer said something to the effect "I've no doubt you can succeed in the first two years of med school. But you're not a young guy, the attendings will run you ragged in third year. You have to be in the hospital at 4am sometimes. Stressful, etc." I was taken aback. Not really about how do you handle stress, but you're old and can you get your old bones up at 4am. (40 isn't old by the way).

In your paraphrasing of the initial question, the interviewer did not actually say anything about age.

Medical school is very demanding, and this may not have been an age related question -- some form of it may be asked to see if the applicant shows awareness of the difficulties or the fact that you need to be able to endure the rigor beyond med school into residency, that he/she is able to reflect upon his/her need for a support system, and that the applicant can identify appropriate coping mechanisms. Is it possible that you are so worried about them focusing on your age that you are inadvertently focusing on it and/or even drawing extra attention to it? Many if not the majority of interviewers do not have your AMCAS, and have no clue how old you are and would simply be guessing by appearance.

Additionally the question about what you will do if you don't get into med school is a very common one and should not be taken as any indication of the interviewer's perception of your likelihood of success as an applicant.

Whoa!!! That interviewer DID cross a line and you must, I repeat, MUST tell the Dean of Admissions at that school about this. it's the only way the system can get rid of inappropriate or incompetent interviewers.

Goro, nowhere in the question did the interviewer actually reference the applicant's age. Unless he clarifies further that age was brought up, I think it's quite possible the OP was interpreting this based on his own concerns. I don't see why this was necessarily a question sparked by age as opposed to one probing the applicant's understanding of the difficulties of medical training and plans/preparation to deal with it. I ask 21 year old applicants variants of this question on a regular basis -- granted, I'm doubly more likely to do it if they give me some indication that they lack understanding of what they're getting into. I'm in my 30's, and I would not have interpreted this interviewer's question as inappropriate if it had been asked of me during my interviews (and it pretty much was).

 

[dejadr]

Clarifications:
1. Open file. Interviewer had all info. And I look way younger than 40.
2. No explicit mention of my actual age, correct. Said "not a young man." Young = subjective description of one's age and in-/ability to do or know something. If getting at do I know what I'm getting myself into, then leave reference out. Also, explicit mention of sex by a sexual harasser doesn't have to happen to be harassment.
3. All my own neuroses? Possibly. Why did it not manifest in previous interview interpretations? I am not worried about my ability to succeed.

 

[Mr Avante]

Goro, nowhere in the question did the interviewer actually reference the applicant's age. Unless he clarifies further that age was brought up, I think it's quite possible the OP was interpreting this based on his own concerns. I don't see why this was necessarily a question sparked by age as opposed to one probing the applicant's understanding of the difficulties of medical training and plans/preparation to deal with it. I ask 21 year old applicants variants of this question on a regular basis -- granted, I'm doubly more likely to do it if they give me some indication that they lack understanding of what they're getting into. I'm in my 30's, and I would not have interpreted this interviewer's question as inappropriate if it had been asked of me during my interviews (and it pretty much was).

Yes, but the question is within sensible parameters. You can't imply someone's age in the same manner as dejadr's interviewer did; it is plain wrong. Imagine an applicant questioning my authority in the room just because I look young. You can't assault an applicant with these comments, it is insulting.

 

[Evil_Abed]

You guys are kidding, right? There was nothing controversial about either of the questions the interviewer asked. It's not "plain wrong" to ask that question, nor is it wrong to ask a young applicant how he would handle patients wanting someone older. We also don't know what exactly was said, considering the OP was paraphrasing the question. Even in the paraphrasing, the interviewer didn't say that the OP was old -- "you're not a young guy" was what OP wrote. It's a completely reasonable question. Pulling consecutive 16-hour days and the q5 30-hour shifts is hard enough as a single, 25-year-old. If I were interviewing a non-trad with a family, I would absolutely ask that same question -- how are you going to handle 3rd year and residency? You guys need to stop over-analyzing and getting offended over the smallest things.

Sheesh.

 

[thegypsyqueen]

You guys are kidding, right? There was nothing controversial about either of the questions the interviewer asked. It's not "plain wrong" to ask that question, nor is it wrong to ask a young applicant how he would handle patients wanting someone older. We also don't know what exactly was said, considering the OP was paraphrasing the question. Even in the paraphrasing, the interviewer didn't say that the OP was old -- "you're not a young guy" was what OP wrote. It's a completely reasonable question. Pulling consecutive 16-hour days and the q5 30-hour shifts is hard enough as a single, 25-year-old. If I were interviewing a non-trad with a family, I would absolutely ask that same question -- how are you going to handle 3rd year and residency? You guys need to stop over-analyzing and getting offended over the smallest things.

Sheesh.

I agree. It is a valid question and the OP stepped up and hit it out of the park. As long as it is just a question and not actual age discrimination, I see no problem with it.

 

[kyamh]

My mom went through residency in her early-forties (we immigrated). According to her, it's an uphill battle since she very definitely felt a huge difference going through residency at 20-something (even while having a baby in med school) vs 40-something. While she says her maturity helped her shine relative to other residents in tasks like communicating with patients, she came home every night/morning wishing she was 20-something again and could bounce back from lack of sleep like her peers. Certainly, everyone has different abilities to cope with stress, regardless of age and age has nothing to do with the quality of physician you will become. All the same, we can't be blinded by the desire to be PC and not tell older applicants that they have to have an honest internal debate about whether they are up for the challenging training.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Should have said (in kind words) "So you're saying there are no doctors that are 40 years or older that work 80+ hours a week?"

Hi all. I'm a non-trad student, 40 years old. Had an interview last week and my first interviewer said something to the effect "I've no doubt you can succeed in the first two years of med school. But you're not a young guy, the attendings will run you ragged in third year. You have to be in the hospital at 4am sometimes. Stressful, etc." I was taken aback. Not really about how do you handle stress, but you're old and can you get your old bones up at 4am. (40 isn't old by the way).

Here's what I said: I have 20 years more experience dealing with stress than most applicants. I have set support systems with partner and family to deal with stress. I have dealt with stress and demanding colleagues while completing a dissertation. And, my success proves that if I have to get up at 4am, I do it. I'm goal-oriented and make it happen.

I had a great second interviewer who actually sits on the adcom. I even discussed some of the issues with him from my first interview.

What are your thoughts? It is my understanding that age is off limits. By the way, the interviewer was about 75 years old.

Good luck to all.

 

[Goro]

Based upon everything I've learned from my very astute Admissions dean, the questioner crossed a line if this was indeed his wording.

It's OK to ask "ho are you going to relate to your classmates?" OR, "you've been out of school a long time. How are you going to adapt to our curriculum?"

IF OP gets rejected, and IF OP decides to sue upon age discrimination...then even if it's hard to prove this, this will still be a major headache to the school. Hence, we interviewers are instructed NOT to discuss age, marital status, etc.

Capeesh?

Anyone have an Admissions dean who would say otherwise?

Clarifications:
1. Open file. Interviewer had all info. And I look way younger than 40.
2. No explicit mention of my actual age, correct. Said "not a young man." Young = subjective description of one's age and in-/ability to do or know something. If getting at do I know what I'm getting myself into, then leave reference out. Also, explicit mention of sex by a sexual harasser doesn't have to happen to be harassment.
3. All my own neuroses? Possibly. Why did it not manifest in previous interview interpretations? I am not worried about my ability to succeed.

 

[Mr Avante]

Capeesh?

Anyone have an Admissions dean who would say otherwise?

 

[PingPongPro]

I don't think you should take it too personally. I'm sure the wording could have been a LOT better, but the harsh reality is that you will face some sort of age discrimination as you proceed down the medical track. It seems like you dealt with the question well, so I wouldn't think about it too much.

The interviewer was also very old and probably spent most of his interviews interviewing 22-24 year olds. If the interviewer was younger than you, it would be really different. Sometimes I feel like elderly people just DGIAF with what they say lol.

 

[luckylee3]

lol