Age

[biomom]

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How old is too old to get into a funded PHD program? I’m 51. Do I have any chance? I would be looking at clinical psych with the goal of doing research.

 

[futureapppsy2]

How old is too old to get into a funded PHD program? I’m 51. Do I have any chance? I would be looking at clinical psych with the goal of doing research.

It's not impossible (a friend of mine in grad school started her PhD at 56, earned it 61, and got a TT faculty job at a masters-level university), but I would really question the cost-benefit ratio, especially given the likely need to move multiple times and the low pay/lack of retirement benefits.

 

[CheetahGirl]

I'm chiming in to encourage you @biomom ! Realistically, your story of 'late bloomer' will need to be compelling as to 'why now?' I was in my mid-30s when I began a program (after having done only research, waiting tables, getting married, getting more education, having kids... since undergrad - in that order), and was definitely one of the older ones in my funded-cohort. Now, funded versus partial-funding vs paying for this education will be tricky, which is why I circle back to your story needs to be compelling of why you switched careers (or rhetorically, what have you been doing?). I would suggest meeting with admissions counselors at the programs-you-desire's grad office. Use them as a reliable resource for feeling out acceptability of older students at each program. Also, perhaps...you could just go forward without highlighting age (hence inspiring some towards ageism), and just highlighting why you would be the best of the best candidates (with your prose and maturity in your essays and overall applications).

Also, ask why the PhD (or PsyD - do not rule out this degree at a reputable program)? Why not MA-level clinician? Why not Social work? (Both can help you become an interventionist in larger research projects that don't require a licensed psychologist.) From this vantage point, what is it that you want to do after completing this goal (because you will change your perspectives and goals once you go through the grind)? You say 'research' but that is so broad and do you need a PhD to do this (many researchers begin with just a BA/BS).

Edit: You're welcome to PM me...if you want discuss real numbers (that WisNeuro and futureapppsy2 are mentioning).

 

[WisNeuro]

It can be done, I supervised an intern (non-neuro) who was in his 50's. It will be an outlier, though. May be a tough road to hoe, particularly for an academic career, which I think will be more prone to age discrimination. TT jobs are more and more rare these days, and shrinking college enrollment projections may make that worse in the coming years. As @futureapppsy2 pointed out, I'd crunch some numbers to look at the cost/benefit analysis.

 

[biomom]

Thanks for the input. I do have an MS in molecular biology and an MA in counseling. I have been involved in research while getting both degrees. I was trying to return from clinical work to research when my boss and mentor died. He had promised to teach me the research process from beginning to end and offered to introduce me to a variety of roles. I felt his mentoring could lead me into a good professional place. Besides grieving his loss, I am now questioning my future. Obviously, that mentoring is not there anymore.

You are right that I must consider the cost and benefit. Paying for another expensive degree is not worth it at my age. My husband would say no anyway. We’ve paid for two degrees already. Without funding, I could not attend.

I think I’m just in a slump now and I’m looking for options. I’m 51 and I see the door closing on dreams I had. There may be other ways to make them come true. I need to reflect.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Just spitballing ideas, but maybe consider a non-applied (i.e., non-licensed) psych doctorate, depending on your research interests? The programs should be funded, the competition may be a bit less fierce than with a clinical because there are generally fewer applicants (assuming you have the pre-reqs and such), and the training length may be a bit shorter. You could still use your MA for clinical practice, but psychological assessment may not be a possibility. And a doctorate in cognitive/developmental/biological/etc. is of course no cakewalk, but you'd definitely get your fill of research methodology.

But I agree 100% with everything that's been said above. Perhaps start with thinking about what your new ideal day at work would look like, if you haven't already?

 

[borne_before]

Thanks for the input. I do have an MS in molecular biology and an MA in counseling. I have been involved in research while getting both degrees. I was trying to return from clinical work to research when my boss and mentor died. He had promised to teach me the research process from beginning to end and offered to introduce me to a variety of roles. I felt his mentoring could lead me into a good professional place. Besides grieving his loss, I am now questioning my future. Obviously, that mentoring is not there anymore.

You are right that I must consider the cost and benefit. Paying for another expensive degree is not worth it at my age. My husband would say no anyway. We’ve paid for two degrees already. Without funding, I could not attend.

I think I’m just in a slump now and I’m looking for options. I’m 51 and I see the door closing on dreams I had. There may be other ways to make them come true. I need to reflect.

Look into genetic counseling!

 

[singasongofjoy]

I second the idea of considering genetic counseling and you might could get a position working in a research lab on the side- though if a lot of the appeal of research is going down rabbit holes and learning everything you can inside and out, there might be enough of that inherent in genetic counseling anyway- never any shortage of new research to learn and keep up with if that scratches that itch! Otherwise yeah, I second the cost/benefit. I know someone who entered my clinical program at around the same age- but was essentially retired from a lucrative previous job so it was basically her way of enjoying retirement, I guess, in a quite atypical way. And another who started med school in her 60s, and is still working (for an insurance company reviewing claims) now as a psychiatrist in her 80s. In each case it's cool to see how their previous careers come out in their work here and there (creative thinking)... and in each case I can also see how they both made those decisions from financially privileged positions and can't say I'd have made the same choices. If I were in your position I think I would just spend some time doing some creative brainstorming - to find some type of something on the side - night or online classes here and there, some volunteering position or side job in a research lab- to meet whatever unfilled intellectual or other needs.

 

[Sanman]

So, what is the dream exactly? To be in research? To have a PhD? To be a professor? Depending on the dream, there may be multiple ways to accomplish it.

 

[gene_halpert]

Just to add my two cents re; genetic counseling. It can be a fulfilling and rewarding job, but most positions will not involve actual research (some do, and more genetic counselors are branching into research, but it’s a minority). It will also not give you more advanced psychotherapy training.

Overall it’s a very steady job with good salary that remains intellectually stimulating - there are meaningful but very short term client interactions. I could imagine a very nice life of being a GC and having a small private practice to continue doing psychotherapy.

Feel free to dm if interested.

 

[borne_before]

Are there any reputable online programs for GC?

 

[summerbabe]

I think I’m just in a slump now and I’m looking for options. I’m 51 and I see the door closing on dreams I had. There may be other ways to make them come true. I need to reflect.

100% support reflection and going back to the drawing board during this transitional period and hope you can take some time before committing to a new direction.

Prior to what happened to your mentor, what role did you see for clinical work in the future? Were you hoping to transition fully away from clinical work or did you want to maintain some level of practice?

When I started my PhD, a number of peers had visions of part clinical/part research careers. I think just about everybody ended up in clinical jobs with perhaps sporadic research due to job market demands. Good luck!

 

[mdwpsyd]

Great question with insightful responses!

We had 3–4 students in the 40–50 age range in my doctoral program. IMHO they added a lot, i.e., their life experience was an asset and we (younger students) learned a good deal from them. They all went on to have good careers.

 

[biomom]

Thank you for all your feedback. I’ve been thinking about what you said. The Dream? When I went back to grad school, I planned on applying early to the PsyD program. I wanted to work clinically with children and families. That didn’t work out. My oldest child has autism and transitioning him to adulthood has been time consuming and stressful. I got my masters and followed my career path. It was extremely clear to me that I had insufficient training as a master’s level provider. The practice I was in shut down and I dabbled in things. I was interested in research and my mentor gave me the opportunity to get involved in clinical research. I imagined eventually becoming a project manager if I did not go back to clinical work. I played with the idea of getting my PhD and doing it all: research, teaching, clinical … totally unrealistic I know.

I can not do genetic counseling as I did not get a degree in genetic counseling and that’s what they are looking for.

I am at a crossroads: I have been offered a different, non-clinical role and my new mentor seems too busy to meet with me. She missed two zoom meetings. I can keep with this or go back to telehealth, but I just don’t enjoy video/phone/text therapy. There is a University called Tilburg where you can earn a PhD. I would have to be clear of my goals though and how realistic they are.

Anyway, thanks for listening.

 

[PsychMom7]

Hi Biomom! Just want to chime in and add my 2 cents. I don't think you need to give up on your dreams just yet. I know what it's like to be at the crossroads though. For perspective, I am 45, have 4 kids, and have started and stopped my psychology education for 14 years until I ended up in my PhD program. I'm currently finishing 3rd year of doctoral studies in clinical psychology at a ridiculously expensive horrendously unfunded professional school. I have an MA in clinical psych and an MS in psych that I earned along the way, never got licensed at the Masters level, got sporadic clinical and insufficient research experience, and halted my pursuits at intervals to have a baby and/or move frequently for my husband's work. I have been at a periodic crossroads for probably 10 years, feeling too old for getting my PhD, so I feel ya!

My current program is probably one of the more reputable of professional schools out there, as far as that goes, does have high APA match and licensure rates, has some great research mentors and networking opportunities. At this point I have 6 courses to go, have worked over a year in 2 different research labs, and just starting my in-house practicum (delays due to Covid) Of my mentors has been awful, the other has been fabulous, so some whiplash there. Overall I am pretty happy with the quality of education and training I have received in the program. Working on a couple different projects with my mentor and the quality of mentoring has made a huge difference. Having said that, the degree ought to be made of gold for the amount it is costing me. Not going to lie, the cost is astronomical to the point of being criminal if I'm being real. There is no funding whatsoever. Due single parenting/full time PhD-ing, I've had to max out student loans to get by. So looks like I will be even more insanely broke than most psychologists from professional schools if I survive this!

If I had to do over again, I definitely would not give up on my dream, but would do what it takes to get a couple years more research experience, publications etc and apply to more funded schools! I may suffer from poor self-concept and often felt that I was not good enough to get into my schools of choice, even though my GPA has been 4.0 for all psychology graduate work I have completed over the years. GRE scores tanked though, when I took them again in my 40's. Maybe due to slower cognitive reflexes of sorts? I could provide the correct answers, just not fast enough. Also was going through extreme divorce stress at the time, though, so maybe that was part of it. I also have felt very age-conscious, and that funded schools would never accept me since they would want to support researchers more apt to have a 40 year career. Funded programs seemed likely to view me as a poor investment from a research career standpoint, was my view. I wish I knew sooner that many programs accept non-traditional students and that age is totally okay.

In all, I want to encourage you to pursue your doctorate if that is your dream- it's never too late! But DO listen to the SDN when it comes to applying/choosing funded schools, strengthening your app, and trying again if necessary.

 

[singasongofjoy]

If the scratch you want to itch is doing research, you might not need a whole 'nother 4-6 years of school and the associated stress and cost. I got a masters degree a few years before pivoting to PhD in clinical psych. One of my friends from that program got a research job (looking at Alzheimer's / other dementias) making more money than I do now with my PhD... granted we also live in an area with a lot of medical research. But a part-time program that allows strong research focus might be doable... I also wonder though if you might be able to pivot to some sort of work with some of the various ASD research organizations in some way. Research into adulthood, transition, quality of life, and related topics are a hot topic right now with the funding focused towards those topics- especially intervention/service-based studies. If you were in my neck of the woods I could think of a few different routes you might could take to get involved in research without "having" to go a full PhD/PsyD route.