AI and Anesthesiology

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surfguy84

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Considering anesthesia as a career. Really like what I've seen during my surgery rotation.

That said, ive read articles about AI tsking jobs in anesthesia in the future. I know AI will encroach on many fields but is anyone particularly worried about things in anesthesia?
 
surfguy84 said:
Considering anesthesia as a career. Really like what I've seen during my surgery rotation.

That said, ive read articles about AI tsking jobs in anesthesia in the future. I know AI will encroach on many fields but is anyone particularly worried about things in anesthesia?
Click to expand...
No.
 
Agreed. AI will eliminate CRNA's before docs. That being said, this is probably not until 2040 if that. That's my guess.

Automation, in general, will effect NA's more than physicians IMO. But, who knows really. I've seen lots of examples of just because it can be done does not mean it will be done. The "barriers" are myriad and specific to the situation, and can range from cost to liability issues.
 
No

Some fields are more vulnerable than others, by virtue of the digital I/O nature of their practice. Path and rads come to mind, though they'll deny it. 😉

But any field that requires direct procedural interaction with patients is safe from AI for a very long time to come.
 
Thanks for the opinions. I had a feeling CRNA would be the biggest issue over the next decade or two.

Still think anesthesia is a field worth pursuing despite this?
 
surfguy84 said:
Thanks for the opinions. I had a feeling CRNA would be the biggest issue over the next decade or two.

Still think anesthesia is a field worth pursuing despite this?
Click to expand...

Do a search and see some of the earlier responses. Don't troll lookin' for trouble.

Look up the huge failure of the Sedasys machine just a year or two ago, AI isn't anywhere close to this point for now.
 
surfguy84 said:
Thanks for the opinions. I had a feeling CRNA would be the biggest issue over the next decade or two.

Still think anesthesia is a field worth pursuing despite this?
Click to expand...

Depends what you want.

I think a lot of current anesthesiologists might not have chosen the field if they'd known for sure going in that high CRNA supervision ratios and an employee model were going to become the norm for the field, for much less than the 90+ %-ile MGMA income that kind of work deserves.

If you go in knowing that may be the future for yourself as a non-subspecialist, and you're OK with it, and the field still holds more appeal than others for you, go for it.

Nothing in medicine is as awesome as it was in the 1980s.

And keep in mind that a lot of the alternative advice doled out by this forum only applies to superstars. It's no use to tell someone to do ortho or ENT or derm instead of anesthesia if they're not top quintile applicants. And most people aren't SDN-standard USMLE 250+ brilliant, handsome/beautiful, witty, charming, clinical rock star.



And make no mistake, this midlevel issue isn't just an anesthesia problem.

Yesterday, yes only yesterday, Thursday August 17th 2017, I had an appointment at the VA for an employment physical, drug screen, fingerprinting, etc. I'm still active duty military but I'm going to split some time at a VA hospital, so this is part of the credentialing process.

I check in to HR and they tell me the doctor will be with me shortly. No less than 3 people referred to the person I was going to see as the doctor.

I get into the exam room and sit down, and the doctor starts by saying "Hi, I'm Dr ________" ... brief pause as the doctor looks at my paperwork, maybe (?) sees that I'm a physician and therefore know the difference, and continues the introduction with "... a nurse practitioner" ...

Maybe that qualifier was going to follow the "Hi, I'm Dr ________" regardless, but the fact is that at a minimum, the office staff deliberately misled me.

I'm still figuring out exactly who and how to formally complain and report this to. I doubt anything will come of it. I don't think my state has an actual statute on the books, and the VA is its own little world.
 
surfguy84 said:
Considering anesthesia as a career. Really like what I've seen during my surgery rotation.

That said, ive read articles about AI tsking jobs in anesthesia in the future. I know AI will encroach on many fields but is anyone particularly worried about things in anesthesia?
Click to expand...
AI is a threat to CRNAs more than anesthesiologists. It can replace brainless actuvities, but can't replace advanced airway management or stabilizing difficult patients.
 
pgg said:
Depends what you want.

I think a lot of current anesthesiologists might not have chosen the field if they'd known for sure going in that high CRNA supervision ratios and an employee model were going to become the norm for the field, for much less than the 90+ %-ile MGMA income that kind of work deserves.

If you go in knowing that may be the future for yourself as a non-subspecialist, and you're OK with it, and the field still holds more appeal than others for you, go for it.

Nothing in medicine is as awesome as it was in the 1980s.

And keep in mind that a lot of the alternative advice doled out by this forum only applies to superstars. It's no use to tell someone to do ortho or ENT or derm instead of anesthesia if they're not top quintile applicants. And most people aren't SDN-standard USMLE 250+ brilliant, handsome/beautiful, witty, charming, clinical rock star.



And make no mistake, this midlevel issue isn't just an anesthesia problem.

Yesterday, yes only yesterday, Thursday August 17th 2017, I had an appointment at the VA for an employment physical, drug screen, fingerprinting, etc. I'm still active duty military but I'm going to split some time at a VA hospital, so this is part of the credentialing process.

I check in to HR and they tell me the doctor will be with me shortly. No less than 3 people referred to the person I was going to see as the doctor.

I get into the exam room and sit down, and the doctor starts by saying "Hi, I'm Dr ________" ... brief pause as the doctor looks at my paperwork, maybe (?) sees that I'm a physician and therefore know the difference, and continues the introduction with "... a nurse practitioner" ...

Maybe that qualifier was going to follow the "Hi, I'm Dr ________" regardless, but the fact is that at a minimum, the office staff deliberately misled me.

I'm still figuring out exactly who and how to formally complain and report this to. I doubt anything will come of it. I don't think my state has an actual statute on the books, and the VA is its own little world.
Click to expand...

Ouch. wow. I think this is the future of american medicine as it becomes more and more money oriented
 
anbuitachi said:
Ouch. wow. I think this is the future of american medicine as it becomes more and more money oriented
Click to expand...

Agree. I just read an article about how irrelevant the AMA is these days, they are too busy being faux-politically active and not addressing the mid level situation for what it is. Largely absent from the VA battle last year, pitiful.

Primary care, psych already have major mid level encroachment. EM is the next big battleground over the next few years - there will probably be a push to employ less docs who "supervise" more NPs/PAs or just straight up "full practice" of those providers in the ED. After all, they did a "fellowship"
 
Seems that everything in medicine today has its issues:

Psych has NPs and psychologists
Primary care/Derm/even to a less degree IM subspecialties have NPs
EM has PAs and NPs
Anesthesiology has CRNA's
Radiology and pathology have AI (a distant, but a scarier threat)
Ophthalmology has optometrists

Seems that only surgical fields (aside from OB and Ophthalmology) are somewhat safe now, but who knows?

I think one should just pic something they like/least hate and hope for the best
 
Just my opinion, mostly as an outsider, nothing more:

1) Future trends for almost all specialties:
-Increasing midlevel encroachment
-Increasing number of physicians becoming employed
-Increasing number of private practices being bought out
-Increasing government regulation
-Increasing paperwork with insurance companies
-Increasing move to bundled payments model

2) However, some specialties are better than others in some of the above trends. Some specialties are more immune to these trends than others specialties. Some specialties don't need to depend as heavily on hospitals, insurance companies, or the government as much as other specialties.

3) All that said, you still need to find satisfaction in the specialty you choose. You still have to do what you enjoy.

4) We can't all be stem cells forever, but we eventually have to differentiate, even though most physicians could probably have gone into another specialty and been just as happy as the one they're currently in. That tells me that happiness isn't 100% tied to specialty choice, even though that's what medical students usually deliberate and opine most about.

Rather, other factors come into play. These could be personal factors, social factors, working environment factors, and so on. For example, some people are perfectly happy working as an employee for a hospital network, while other people have always wanted to be the boss so won't settle for anything less than their own business. Some people love working in the hospital, others want an outpatient practice only. Some people want to be able to "fix" patients, others are more interested in diagnosing and leaving the treatment and management to others.

So you have to know yourself. Know what resonates with you and what doesn't. Once you know yourself, you can better decide.
 
Last edited:
AdmiralChz said:
Look up the huge failure of the Sedasys machine just a year or two ago, AI isn't anywhere close to this point for now.
Click to expand...
The only folks I personally know who used the system were endoscopists, and they thought it was great. When it was removed at the end of last year they developed an algorithm identical to the sedasys algorithm that their nurses can follow, and they say it's been succesful.
 
surfguy84 said:
Thanks for the opinions. I had a feeling CRNA would be the biggest issue over the next decade or two.

Still think anesthesia is a field worth pursuing despite this?
Click to expand...
Do anesthesia and find your niche what you LOVE. We do need help in this fight
 
anbuitachi said:
I'm surprised neurology has been so well protected. There's so much money in neuro!
Click to expand...
Interestingly my local neuro group has one NP. The docs are booked up for a month or two straight while the NP has open slots on a daily basis. Patients just prefer to wait when it comes to relatively complex specialty issues. The NP mostly does follow-up med check visits and bread-and-butter migraine work.
 
surfguy84 said:
Considering anesthesia as a career. Really like what I've seen during my surgery rotation.

That said, ive read articles about AI tsking jobs in anesthesia in the future. I know AI will encroach on many fields but is anyone particularly worried about things in anesthesia?
Click to expand...

Many other issues besides AI should give you pause about career in medicine/anesthesia (or any other specialty)...AI will 1st replace cab/Uber drivers, truck drivers, train engineers, pilots, newscasters, fast-food workers, pharmacists, receptionists etc
 
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