Airline Pilot to Pre-Med

[GarrettCheese]

Hello everyone,

I am new to SDN and was hoping to receive some great advice from those that were in my shoes at one point. I am starting pre-medicine classes at the University of Cincinnati and Xavier University in January. My cousin is a Radiologist (DO) and her guidance and encouragement helped me to determine that medicine is my passion. Please provide me with any advice, encouragement, and/or doses or reality that I may need to be successful as I continue with pre-med...

About me:
-26 years old, male
-B.A. Aviation Science, 2006, GPA 3.5, ACT 26
-Previous employment: Flight instructor, airline co-pilot (regional airline)
-Planning on taking bio 1, bio 2, chem 1 from January-May (is that too many classes? It will be 12 credits)
-My curriculum track has me completing all pre-requisites in early May 2011. I hope to have applications, essays, and MCAT taken by the end of May 2011 and to apply as soon as possible.
-I am interested in DO programs but am of course open to MD
-I will be taking 2-3 classes each semester/quarter as I continue pre-med over the next year and 4 months.
-I hope to volunteer at a Hospital after my first semester of classes are successfully completed
-I have good volunteer and teaching experience
-I have always participated in club sports (swimming and water polo)

Thank you for any and all guidance you can give me!

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[gman33]

Plenty of people do it, but I wouldn't recommend starting with 3 science classes + labs your first semester. Without a strong science backbround, it's hard to determine how you will adjust. I've seen people try this and bomb their first semester. As a postbacc, you just don't have enough classes to make up a bad semester. I like to see people take on less the first semester, get all A's, and than add classes if you think you can handle it.

How much clinical experience do you have? I could be wrong, but it sounds like none. You need plenty of this, both to get in, but more importantly to see if you like being around sick people. If not, find something else.

Last point about DO schools. Your cousin is a radiologist. If you are interested in rads, you will be much better off going to a MD school. Most of the training programs are MD, and it is one of the most competitive specialties. A MD school will give you a better shot at matching in Rads. Also make sure you are interested in other fields as well.

 

[sgtbrushes]

How much clinical experience do you have? I could be wrong, but it sounds like none. You need plenty of this, both to get in, but more importantly to see if you like being around sick people. If not, find something else.

This is the most important thing for you to do. Shadow some doctors to see if you want to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and a decade of your life training to do what they do.

 

[NTF]

How much clinical experience do you have? I could be wrong, but it sounds like none. You need plenty of this, both to get in, but more importantly to see if you like being around sick people. If not, find something else.

Definitely. Find a way to get as much face time with patients and physicians in clinical settings as possible. And I wouldn't wait long to do it.

 

[njbmd]

Read gman's post a couple of times. It's contains some good advice especially to slow down and do well. Your uGPA is below the average for matriculating medical students thus you can't afford to do anything below B+ in any of your coursework with As being your goal.

You definitely NEED to shadow more than a few physicians. In addition, make sure that you have some meaningful volunteer work that shows an interest in helping your fellow humans. Since you are not coming from a strong science background, you are going to need very strong LORs from science professors and at least one clinician.

You are on track with your plans but slow down. Medical school is always going to be there and there's no age limit for application either. Take your time and do well. You are in "shouting" range but you need to bring this home strong.

 

[GarrettCheese]

Thank you everyone for your good advice and information. I have the option of rearranging my schedule so that I am taking BIO 1 (+lab) and BIO 2(+lab) from January-May. Over the summer I can complete my entire Chemistry requirement (class 5 days/wk). And then next Fall and Spring 2011 I would be doing organic chemistry and physics. This would have me doing 2 classes + labs each quarter/semester. Is this a more appropriate and planned course of action? Doing 2 classes at a time I would be unable to add Anatomy, Genetics, and BioChem. Should I try to add those extra classes to get a leg up on medical school? By the way I am unemployed and plan on devoting 150% of my time to pre-med classes, volunteering, and shadowing. I just don't want to volunteer the first semester because I want all my time available for studying.

If any of you could comment on my curriculum over the next year and 3 months I have attached an excel file showing the progression. Thank you again for all your help.

Sorry for the mistake but in the excel file the first semester would only be 2 classes, the CHEM would all be done over the summer. CHEM 101/111 would NOT be done in the Spring.

 

[kia ora]

Thank you everyone for your good advice and information. I have the option of rearranging my schedule so that I am taking BIO 1 (+lab) and BIO 2(+lab) from January-May. Over the summer I can complete my entire Chemistry requirement (class 5 days/wk). And then next Fall and Spring 2011 I would be doing organic chemistry and physics. This would have me doing 2 classes + labs each quarter/semester. Is this a more appropriate and planned course of action? Doing 2 classes at a time I would be unable to add Anatomy, Genetics, and BioChem. Should I try to add those extra classes to get a leg up on medical school? By the way I am unemployed and plan on devoting 150% of my time to pre-med classes, volunteering, and shadowing. I just don't want to volunteer the first semester because I want all my time available for studying.

If any of you could comment on my curriculum over the next year and 3 months I have attached an excel file showing the progression. Thank you again for all your help.

Sorry for the mistake but in the excel file the first semester would only be 2 classes, the CHEM would all be done over the summer. CHEM 101/111 would NOT be done in the Spring.

I don't know...I took gen chem/bio/physics all at the same time for an academic year (three quarters of each) and didn't find it to be overwhelming by any means there's a bit of overlap among the intro classes (they go together nicely) and especially if you are not working at a job during this time, I would think it looks better to adcoms to see you taking more classes at a time, rather than fewer (as long as you do well in the classes, of course).

I didn't take anatomy, but I took biochem and genetics - I think biochem may be of some limited utility in med school (and some schools "strongly recommend" it...which to me means you better take it). I hated my genetics class so I won't advise you on that one way or the other...

 

[GarrettCheese]

If I graduate June 12, 2011, is that too late for applying realistically? As long as I have the MCAT complete, can I apply to schools in May or early June even if I have another couple weeks of classes to go?

 

[DO3]

Wow...why the change? I'll tell you the position I was in about 2 years ago. I went into college thinking medical school all the way. About 1.5 years in, I decided that I did not want to do that anymore. I was gung-ho airline pilot. I was planning to graduate with my Biology degree in May of 2009, and then head to Delta Connection Academy to become an airline pilot. This was I believe in 2007 when the regional hiring boom was in full throttle, and people with 250 hours were being hired. Well...then reality check. Obvously, you know what happened. The regional hiring boom came to a full halt. There was no time frame when they would start hiring again. Regionals and majors both furloghed pilots. Even if I did pursue an airline career and was in fact hired, I realized that I would be stuck at a regional for most of my career. In addition to that, airline pilots are severely underpaid for the job they do, and on top of that, I would be away from home 2-3 weeks per month. I then went back to wanting to be a doctor. I took the MCAT in January of 2009. I found out that medical school was what I really wanted to do. I now have 3 acceptances, and I will be attending medical school in the fall. I still have a thing for flying, but I figure that I will just do it on the side when I become a physician.

Welcome aboard!!! Follow your dreams and your passion!

PS- I was considering Embry Riddle after high school. That would have been a great 200K mistake.

 

[2010houston]

If I graduate June 12, 2011, is that too late for applying realistically? As long as I have the MCAT complete, can I apply to schools in May or early June even if I have another couple weeks of classes to go?

Do remember that you don't HAVE to have all your prereqs complete before applying. You may well WANT them for the MCAT, but it will not affect your app one way or the other if you have not taken them but will complete them before matriculation (one course or two, not all of them obviously). With that said, most of them are certainly helpful and sometimes necessary before you take the MCAT. But if you're someone who can self-prepare, you might be able to get away with not taking Orgo II or some of your labs before the MCAT.

On the same note, know what your capabilities are - there are certainly people who can take 3 sci classes and labs and get all As, esp if you're not working full time. This is not the norm, but can be done!! If you're motivated enough and know that you can do it - or, know that you'll know by the drop point that you CAN'T do it - then go ahead and go for it.

Good luck!!

 

[GarrettCheese]

Thanks again everyone for added advice!

DO3 - Be thankful everyday that you did NOT become an airline pilot. Don't get me wrong it was amazing to fly a 50 seat jet right out of college for a couple years, but it didn't take too long to come to the realization that I didn't want to wake up in a hotel when I was 40 with kids and a wife at home 1,000 miles away opening up Christmas presents. Being truly happy as a professional pilot takes a certain personality and I knew I wasn't going to be happy there forever. If you like flying then you should definitely pursue your private, instrument, commercial, multi engine, and go through your flight instructors certs. It is obviously a very enjoyable skill and hobby to have. BTW, I know furloughed pilots with close to $200,000 in loans from embry riddle that are collecting unemployment

I should be able to finish all my science prereqs by May 2011 and if I get some interviews I will plan on explaining that I will be taking BioChem and Anatomy before matriculation.

Would someone let me know when they think would be a good time to start shadowing physicians? How much shadowing needs to be done before applying to schools?

 

[njbmd]

Thanks again everyone for added advice!

DO3 - Be thankful everyday that you did NOT become an airline pilot. Don't get me wrong it was amazing to fly a 50 seat jet right out of college for a couple years, but it didn't take too long to come to the realization that I didn't want to wake up in a hotel when I was 40 with kids and a wife at home 1,000 miles away opening up Christmas presents. Being truly happy as a professional pilot takes a certain personality and I knew I wasn't going to be happy there forever. If you like flying then you should definitely pursue your private, instrument, commercial, multi engine, and go through your flight instructors certs. It is obviously a very enjoyable skill and hobby to have. BTW, I know furloughed pilots with close to $200,000 in loans from embry riddle that are collecting unemployment

I should be able to finish all my science prereqs by May 2011 and if I get some interviews I will plan on explaining that I will be taking BioChem and Anatomy before matriculation.

Would someone let me know when they think would be a good time to start shadowing physicians? How much shadowing needs to be done before applying to schools?

I think you definitely "hit the nail on the head" with your post about flying. I am a private pilot and love the magic but I make no mistake, it's an expensive "hobby" that my medicine/surgery has enabled me to enjoy.

I do know a couple of mates who have those high educational expenses that are doing the cross country commutes to fly the regional hops. It's a shame too because we need those short routes and those folks need to earn enough of a salary to have home closer to work. They are definitely in the same situation as the folks who love primary care but carry $250K of educational loans. Under today's climate, they have some huge expenses with long-term debt.

Now, to comment on your plans: start shadowing here and there as soon as you can arrange it. You don't need thousands of hours but you need enough and enough of a variety of shadowing experiences in order to make sure that you can clearly articulate your interest and aptitude for medicine.

Again, because you are going to be a non-traditional student by the time you apply, you will have to be sure that you can clearly state and defend your reasons for wanting to change careers and enter medicine. That's just the first rule of being a nontraditional student.

I was a biochemist/researcher/medical school professor and I had to defend my reasons for wanting to attend medical school. It was a little easier for me because I was "in the business" but nevertheless, you can anticipate having that question at one or more interviews. Having something realistic to say will greatly enhance your chances of getting in. Good luck!

 

[vc7777]

Hey OP,

This is a little off-topic, but I saw your post and immediately thought about this doctor. He is at Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan.

William Hamman, M.D., Ph.D

Hamman, M.D., Ph.D, serves as the Director of Medical Simulation & Research in the Surgical Learning Center. Dr. Hamman is an internationally recognized authority in the area of team-based performance enhancement and specifically the use of in situ simulation to improve human performance in high risk team-centered health care environments. With thirty years of experience as an international airline pilot for United Airlines and fifteen years as a clinician in cardiology, Dr. Hamman joins us from Western Michigan University's College of Aviation where he was a research scientist and the Director of the Center for Human Performance and Simulation.
He has made significant contributions in raising standards in both the airline and healthcare industries by establishing risk assessment and human performance improvement programs through the use of simulation. While working for United Airlines, Dr. Hamman held the position of Manager of Human Factors and Risk Assessment. He also contributed to the development of team training for flight crews in the Advanced Qualification Program (AQP) as well as sat on various focus groups for the Air Transport Association, Airline Pilot Association, and NASA.

 

[GarrettCheese]

I remember when I was doing simulator training at the regional airline I was hired by, and we had a medical student from Dartmouth sit in on simulator training for a full day. I guess he was doing research on a surgery simulator and because aviation has simulation down to a science he wanted to sit in and take what he could from it...

 

[vc7777]

I remember when I was doing simulator training at the regional airline I was hired by, and we had a medical student from Dartmouth sit in on simulator training for a full day. I guess he was doing research on a surgery simulator and because aviation has simulation down to a science he wanted to sit in and take what he could from it...

It's a pretty tricked-out surgical simulator...nicer than the real ORs I've been in! Seriously, lookslike a movie set.

Beaumont is a pretty nice suburban hospital (in the process of getting their own medical school) with national prestige.

I heard he still flies commercially once or twice a month internationally too. What an unusual skill set and lifestyle, huh?

I wish you the best of luck GC, keep your passion and positive attitude, and press on.

-vc7777

 

[GarrettCheese]

Thanks, vc7777

 

[redsbear]

From someone who was/is in similar shoes, congratulations on finding the guts to make a very tough career decision! I think burning out around 1000 hours was both the worst and best thing that ever happened to me. When you sit in a flight school office for a year, talking to guys (and girls) burning Jet A, you realize that:
1. The pay sucks.
2. The schedule sucks.
3. The administration/business side sucks.
4. The unions suck.
5. Furloughs suck.
6. Seniority systems with no merit-based promotion suck.
7. Flying jets is really cool!

Sorry, find some other sucker to sit right-seat for $18k starting pay and an almost certain furlough.

What I've learned in my path to med school....
-Start volunteering YESTERDAY. In a clinical setting. Think hospitals (I like the ER), nursing homes, etc... You cannot submit an application stating your intentions to volunteer before matriculation. Nobody cares about what you haven't done yet, and schools like to see a long-term commitment to whatever it is you do. Even though you need it to pad your resume, you don't want it to look like you're padding your resume...
-Shadow at least 50 or so hours. I spent about 6-8 almost full days with a Family Practice doc in a nearby town. I want to pursue primary care, so this was ESSENTIAL for me. You'll learn much more than you think, and it will give you perspectives and even stories to relate during interviews/personal statements/etc... I'd shadow some other specialties, too. My goals are explicitly rural FP, so I stuck with that side of things.
-Unfortunately (and this was a hard pill for me to swallow), nobody cares you're a CFI. I thought that my 1000 hours of dual given, ground school classes taught, and enjoyment of teaching would get me at least a little bump. I also thought that single-handedly running a small flight school, teaching myself Quickbooks, paying taxes, attracting students, and maintaining three trainers would show leadership. Nope... Two Deans of Admission both told me that it's all merely an interesting note in my work history. Realistically, I'd be better off with a state teaching certificate...

Anyway, good luck. If you've got any questions feel free to shoot me a PM or something.

Barry
KLVN

 

[GarrettCheese]

I know that this is far out thinking, but any other non-trad members let me know what you think. Assuming I get into Medical School, I am considering spending the year that I will be waiting for matriculation getting an MBA. I have applied to and gotten into a school with a 12-month MBA and am hoping to defer it to 2011. How did others in the non-traditional track spend the year that they were waiting to begin school?

I know this is all assuming I get into medical school which I absolutely do not take for granted. I am just trying to think ahead (its in my personality!)

Thanks for your input!

 

[vc7777]

I know that this is far out thinking, but any other non-trad members let me know what you think. Assuming I get into Medical School, I am considering spending the year that I will be waiting for matriculation getting an MBA. I have applied to and gotten into a school with a 12-month MBA and am hoping to defer it to 2011. How did others in the non-traditional track spend the year that they were waiting to begin school?

I know this is all assuming I get into medical school which I absolutely do not take for granted. I am just trying to think ahead (its in my personality!)

Thanks for your input!

Hmmm...

Of course, it is possible. But it will not be simply 'a year off'.

Remember, you will be applying in the late spring and through the summer months. And you will not start interviewing until (best case) September of 2011 (assuming you want to attend in 2012), which is inconveniently right around the start of the academic year. Best case will be an acceptance in mid-October 2011 for classes starting around August/September 2012, so you wouldn't have a complete year of certainty.

What is your motivation for the MBA?

 

[GarrettCheese]

Motivation for the MBA lies in the fact that a lot of schools now offer MD/MBA degrees. I feel as though it would increase my skills if I ever wanted to go into private practice or administration. Also, there is no guarantee of getting into Medical School so it would be a backup plan as well.

 

[vc7777]

If that interests you, then go for it. I wouldn't do it just because some med schools offer it. But backup plans are A-OK in my book. Like I mentioned, just keep in mind the time commitments of applying and interviewing and how it will impact your MBA.

Best of luck!

 

[gxey]

I'm in the same boat as you are - commercial pilot switching to medicine.

I'm just starting university at 24, but I have had my fun instructing and flying navahos through the mountains of British Columbia. It's spectacular and exciting at first, but after a while it's just another driving job with hours of boredom at the front end.

Best of luck to you - I hope you love studying, because there's going to be a lot of that to do.

 

[GarrettCheese]

Actually I do love studying, which is just another reason I'm so excited for post-bac classes and med school

 

[vc7777]

Hey OP,

This is a little off-topic, but I saw your post and immediately thought about this doctor. He is at Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan.

William Hamman, M.D., Ph.D

Hamman, M.D., Ph.D, serves as the Director of Medical Simulation & Research in the Surgical Learning Center. Dr. Hamman is an internationally recognized authority in the area of team-based performance enhancement and specifically the use of in situ simulation to improve human performance in high risk team-centered health care environments. With thirty years of experience as an international airline pilot for United Airlines and fifteen years as a clinician in cardiology, Dr. Hamman joins us from Western Michigan University's College of Aviation where he was a research scientist and the Director of the Center for Human Performance and Simulation.
He has made significant contributions in raising standards in both the airline and healthcare industries by establishing risk assessment and human performance improvement programs through the use of simulation. While working for United Airlines, Dr. Hamman held the position of Manager of Human Factors and Risk Assessment. He also contributed to the development of team training for flight crews in the Advanced Qualification Program (AQP) as well as sat on various focus groups for the Air Transport Association, Airline Pilot Association, and NASA.

Hey! Thought I would resurrect this post and update you guys on the "doctor" I talked about! This came out just recently, he resigned about 6 months after I posted.

http://www.freep.com/article/20101214/NEWS06/12140350/1318/-Fake-doc-had-hospitals-fooled

My bad to everybody!

 

[Aviatrix2MD]

This is my first post. I am a 6yr copilot at a regional. I was just accepted this year to med school. Any updates on the other airline pilots turned doctor candidates? How did things turn out for you guys?

 

[Scottish Chap]

Hey OP,

This is a little off-topic, but I saw your post and immediately thought about this doctor. He is at Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan.

William Hamman, M.D., Ph.D

Hamman, M.D., Ph.D, serves as the Director of Medical Simulation & Research in the Surgical Learning Center. Dr. Hamman is an internationally recognized authority in the area of team-based performance enhancement and specifically the use of in situ simulation to improve human performance in high risk team-centered health care environments. With thirty years of experience as an international airline pilot for United Airlines and fifteen years as a clinician in cardiology, Dr. Hamman joins us from Western Michigan University's College of Aviation where he was a research scientist and the Director of the Center for Human Performance and Simulation.
He has made significant contributions in raising standards in both the airline and healthcare industries by establishing risk assessment and human performance improvement programs through the use of simulation. While working for United Airlines, Dr. Hamman held the position of Manager of Human Factors and Risk Assessment. He also contributed to the development of team training for flight crews in the Advanced Qualification Program (AQP) as well as sat on various focus groups for the Air Transport Association, Airline Pilot Association, and NASA.

He is a pilot, he's a pathological liar, and he's no more medically qualified that my baby son.

Here is a national bite:
"William Hamman resigned from his Medical Simulation and Research position at Beaumont in June. A credentials check revealed discrepancies in the academic degrees (M.D. and Ph.D.) claimed on his resume.

During his year at Beaumont, he was an educator and researcher who taught communication and team performance skills through simulations using computer mannequins or actors. He was never involved in clinical care of patients.

As a result of this incident, we have strengthened our credentials verification process for those hired for administrative positions. We have also notified all appropriate parties, including Hamman's educational institutions, other employers, state and federal agencies, research grantors and co-investigators.

We want to reassure the public that we have a rigorous credentials verification process for those who provide patient care at Beaumont."

"Unfortunately, AP were the very ones who were able to find out that Hamman faked his credentials. They found that Hamman had no medical residency, fellowship, doctoral degree or even clinical experience amounting to 15 years. Although records show that Hamman did enter medical school but never finished it.

So far the FAA has cleared the fact that Hamman has license to fly planes, various universities, hospitals and other medical institutions have listed off Hamman from their roster of trainers. So far there have been no records yet of the disgraced pilot of ever treating a cardiac patient though some videos show Hamman giving a lecture in emergency rooms.

United Airlines have grounded the fake doctor until further notice. As for his work as a lecturer in seminars, the American Medical Association (AMA) allowed him to lead a seminar but changed his title from "Dr." to "Captain". Even medical journals and articles with Hamman listed with a PH.D. and M.D. are now being corrected."

"After fessing up, Hamman asked the AMA and the cardiology group to let him continue, saying, "the work is the work."

They decided that a lie is a lie."

 

[vc7777]

Right. He's the talk of the town. Sometimes I want to ask these people candidly how this happens? I can't imagine it happened overnight, but still?

Not sent from my cell phone