ALL Female second year class. Would it make a difference to you as an intern?

[Odaleyguey11]

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Hi.
So I'm in love with a particular residency. The only caveat is if I match there my second years will all be moms. I'm wondering, as a single person with no children, if that is going to somehow negatively affect the training experience and internal social dynamic (I.e. I'll be auto-isolated) as an intern? Would that be a concern for anyone or am I worrying over nothing?

 

[JustPlainBill]

Are you male or female -- this will impact the dynamic --

From experience:

I had 2 female chief residents that were convinced they were the cat's meow -- often talked about "put on your big girl panties" -- rather interesting interaction one day when I was coming off of a rough call night and one of them decided to throw her weight around (which was considerable) -- and I responded by looking her directly in the eye and answering in an affirmative, assertive tone regarding her question --- I did not yell or raise my voice, just used standard, no BS assertive language/tone backed up by appropriate assertive body language (shoulders squared, head up, direct eye contact, back straight) -- mentally broke her down and I was accused of "threatening" and "being mean" --- there was also a LOT of back door politics/catty behavior amongst the female heavy residency I went to -- nothing against the ladies but it's what I experienced --- Also, if you're male, you need to watch the twisted guy humor and terms of endearment that we are all used to like ," Hey d*(sh*&" or "Yo, f*(kfa*(" -- that's a non-starter in the call room ---

For me, nope, ain't gonna do it no matter how much I love the residency -- not worth the BS that comes with it ---

 

[Odaleyguey11]

Thanks a lot. I'm a guy, and going into FM

 

[primadonna22274]

All female? And all mothers? No thanks. I wouldn't fit in at all. Part of the reason I love my residency program is that we are VERY diverse and pretty evenly split M/F.

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[VA Hopeful Dr]

Yeah, the 2nd year class when I was an intern had 7 women and 1 guy (who was married to one of the women). It was not pleasant.

I'd avoid if possible.

 

[SLC]

My program is like 75% female. Though our intern class has a pretty even split.

I don't mind things, everyone is cool here.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Hell nah.

 

[sundaymorning7]

Ugh really? This thread has such a strong undercurrent of misogyny. The assertion that an all-female residency class is automatically going to be "catty" is absurd. It sounds like a couple people on this thread have had negative experiences with heavily female residency classes, but men and women in all branches of medicine can be jerks. Many/most of the top FM programs in the country have very female-dominated residency classes, and from my interviews and away rotations I have seen these women be nothing but supportive and pleasant to work with. I do think it is important to look for a place where you feel like you fit with the residents, and important to look for a class that is diverse, but diversity can mean many things besides just gender and marital status.

 

[primadonna22274]

Misogynistic? Nah. I'm about the most girly girl out there but I need a heavy dose of testosterone around to balance me out. I just like balance and diversity. I used to teach PA students. One class there were I swear 15 tall, slender, blond, smart, pretty 22 yr olds, six of them in my small group. Ugh it was just too much. Mix it up!

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[cabinbuilder]

As a female and a mom I would not touch that either. I will tell you how much hell it is to do the call schedule and sick coverage, etc for school events, sick kids, babysitter sick, husband out of town, etc. You will hear it everyday, "yes, but I have kids that come first". Move along.

 

[JustPlainBill]

As a female and a mom I would not touch that either. I will tell you how much hell it is to do the call schedule and sick coverage, etc for school events, sick kids, babysitter sick, husband out of town, etc. You will hear it everyday, "yes, but I have kids that come first". Move along.

yep -- sorry to be misogynistic but try pulling "sick kids that come first" as a male --

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Ugh really? This thread has such a strong undercurrent of misogyny. The assertion that an all-female residency class is automatically going to be "catty" is absurd. It sounds like a couple people on this thread have had negative experiences with heavily female residency classes, but men and women in all branches of medicine can be jerks. Many/most of the top FM programs in the country have very female-dominated residency classes, and from my interviews and away rotations I have seen these women be nothing but supportive and pleasant to work with. I do think it is important to look for a place where you feel like you fit with the residents, and important to look for a class that is diverse, but diversity can mean many things besides just gender and marital status.

Hah.

 

[hallowmann]

Ugh really? This thread has such a strong undercurrent of misogyny. The assertion that an all-female residency class is automatically going to be "catty" is absurd. It sounds like a couple people on this thread have had negative experiences with heavily female residency classes, but men and women in all branches of medicine can be jerks. Many/most of the top FM programs in the country have very female-dominated residency classes, and from my interviews and away rotations I have seen these women be nothing but supportive and pleasant to work with. I do think it is important to look for a place where you feel like you fit with the residents, and important to look for a class that is diverse, but diversity can mean many things besides just gender and marital status.

To be fair, I think most people who made the comments against such a program would feel equally uncomfortable in an all male residency environment. Diversity and different perspectives is valuable, and while many programs are female dominated (FM residents are like 55% F) very few are all female.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

To be fair, I think most people who made the comments against such a program would feel equally uncomfortable in an all male residency environment. Diversity and different perspectives is valuable, and while many programs are female dominated (FM residents are like 55% F) very few are all female.

What drama is a male-only program going to bring?
How many of them will eventually allow nature to take over and become pregnant?

 

[hallowmann]

What drama is a male-only program going to bring?
How many of them will eventually allow nature to take over and become pregnant?

They'd all be bros? They'd all compete for the Sports med cases? There'd be a little too much testosterone over all. Stereotypes, sure, but its certainly possible. After going for a short time to an all guys school, I kind of recognize I would hate to have to work in that kind of environment.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

They'd all be bros? They'd all compete for the Sports med cases? There'd be a little too much testosterone over all. Stereotypes, sure, but its certainly possible. After going for a short time to an all guys school, I kind of recognize I would hate to have to work in that kind of environment.

I haven't met too many bros in FM. You must be thinking of Ortho.
I'm not sure where you are a resident at (seems you are a Med student still). There is no competing for Sports Med cases. At least, not at my program. A little too much testosterone? I think you're thinking of Ortho. Also, who cares if they eat/sleep gym when not working, it isn't affecting my ability to do work and it isn't affecting my work schedule.

I'd like to clarify that diversity is great, but if I had to pick all guys or all women, I'd join the all guy group all day every day when it comes to joining a residency program. No doubt about it.

 

[hallowmann]

I haven't met too many bros in FM. You must be thinking of Ortho.
I'm not sure where you are a resident at (seems you are a Med student still). There is no competing for Sports Med cases. At least, not at my program. A little too much testosterone? I think you're thinking of Ortho. Also, who cares if they eat/sleep gym when not working, it isn't affecting my ability to do work and it isn't affecting my work schedule.

Yeah, I'm a student still. I've done a rotation at a residency program where 3/4 wanted Sports med (mostly guys) and they had trouble sorting out the OB cases and the Sports med/OMT cases. All the guys that wanted sports med wanted the almost constant stream of cases that came into the clinic, and none wanted to do the OB cases. The handful of people that were just OK with doing OB constantly complained about being stuck with it, and on the rare occasions where one of the sports med hopefuls was stuck with an OB case, they complained repeatedly about it.

I'm sure the program was unique and probably poorly run in terms of scheduling, but I've at least seen that side of it.

As far as Ortho and surgery that's true I'm sure it's much more common there, but to say it could never happen at a predominantly male FM program isn't completely accurate.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Yeah, I'm a student still. I've done a rotation at a residency program where 3/4 wanted Sports med (mostly guys) and they had trouble sorting out the OB cases and the Sports med/OMT cases. All the guys that wanted sports med wanted the almost constant stream of cases that came into the clinic, and none wanted to do the OB cases. The handful of people that were just OK with doing OB constantly complained about being stuck with it, and on the rare occasions where one of the sports med hopefuls was stuck with an OB case, they complained repeatedly about it.

I'm sure the program was unique and probably poorly run in terms of scheduling, but I've at least seen that side of it.

As far as Ortho and surgery that's true I'm sure it's much more common there, but to say it could never happen at a predominantly male FM program isn't completely accurate.

Never said it couldn't. Sure, anything can happen.
The sky could fall too.
Most guys tend to want the bare minimum OB and be done with it. Bro or not. There's always 1 or 2 who loves OB though. I know when I hit my 10 I was like "nope, not it!" I don't mind seeing OBs for acute visits though. It keeps the skills up.
I seem to get a lot of MSK/sports med related stuff without asking. I also get a lot of thyroid, GI, depression, obesity patients looking for weight loss and overall help. I also get a lot of URI related patients. Unfortunately, while I get a good amount of MSK stuff, I do not get too many fractures. We do have sports med for that and we don't have splints/braces in our own clinics.
Sounds like a terrible scheduling process and maybe I'm wrong and there's several programs out there that are like that. I color myself fortunate in that regard.

 

[hallowmann]

Never said it couldn't. Sure, anything can happen.
The sky could fall too.
Most guys tend to want the bare minimum OB and be done with it. Bro or not. There's always 1 or 2 who loves OB though. I know when I hit my 10 I was like "nope, not it!" I don't mind seeing OBs for acute visits though. It keeps the skills up.
I seem to get a lot of MSK/sports med related stuff without asking. I also get a lot of thyroid, GI, depression, obesity patients looking for weight loss and overall help. I also get a lot of URI related patients. Unfortunately, while I get a good amount of MSK stuff, I do not get too many fractures. We do have sports med for that and we don't have splints/braces in our own clinics.
Sounds like a terrible scheduling process and maybe I'm wrong and there's several programs out there that are like that. I color myself fortunate in that regard.

Even on the rotation, it felt disorganized. You'd think it would be possible to divide things evenly enough, but I don't know they struggled. The other program I rotated at didn't have this problem at all, but it was also a good mix of M and F with different goals, a very hands-on and supportive PD, friendly and positive environment. Their only problem was no-shows.

Needless to say I'm glad my first FM experience was at that place and not the disorganized one. I've only rotated in FM at 2 sites and only been exposed to 2 others from the outside looking in, so my experience is very limited. Most places are probably fine regardless of make-up, but I'll always be wary of a place that's filled with predominantly the same kind of people.

 

[NurWollen]

I wonder how this discussion might be different when discussing Ob/Gyn or Peds residencies on one side, and Ortho residencies on the other.

Edit: what I mean is, for someone going in to peds, ob, or ortho, they might not have much of a choice as to the gender make up of their program.

 

[Bacchus]

It would most likely be more difficult logistically considering the call schedule, coverage, etc. However, rest in solace that hopefully the intern class might be split more evenly. 😉