Alliant vs PAU

[CABstudent1!]

Hi everyone, I am seeking some advice. Although I welcome constructive criticisms and warnings, I’d greatly appreciate if they were accompanied with some advice. A little background is I am a first generation college student and a 2nd generation American. I attended CSU, Chico and graduated with barely a 3.2 GPA. Getting a doctorate has always been a genuine and intrinsic want of mine. I also don’t want to stop at anything less because my family was never afforded the opportunity of education. With that being said, I eventually would like to either have a private practice or work as a JC professor, if not both. As of right now I am considering going the professional route and am looking into PAU (Palo Alto University) and Alliant. I am weary of both due to high costs and reputation. From my google searches I believe PAU has a better reputation but would like your guys’ input on that. I am hesitant because of the high cost but have been justifying it in my mind because of the 10 year forgiveness plan. I also am not too worried about obtaining internships because I have families that work at state hospitals that said they could get me internships. From my google research (not too credible) I have also heard that both of these programs are unfunded. I’m not quite sure what that means or how that will affect me if I chose these programs. On the other hand, the reason I am strongly leaning towards professional is because all the statistics for doctoral programs in the state have crazy competitive acceptance rates (I’m talking like 8 students out of 400). I don’t want to pursue a master’s because majority are terminal and I fear that by the time I finish and that... life will have already happened and something will come up that will prevent me going back to school. I guess my main questions are: Is there a difference between PAU and Alliant? What are your warnings with my specific situation in mind? What does unfunded exactly mean? Lastly, I don’t know if this is allowed but I do have quite a good resume so if anyone would be willing to look it over and help guide my decisions based on that, that would be greatly beneficial because as I said, I am a first gen and don’t have anyone to look to for advice.

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[WisNeuro]

If you have to choose between one of those two bad options, PAU is the better of the two. I wouldn't even consider 95% of the Alliant campuses, most are diploma mills.

 

[Temperance]

I would strongly recommend you read this thread as you consider the financial aspects: A PsyD story (mostly $$$ talk)

I would also strongly recommending reading this guide to doctoral programs in psychology if you haven't done so already: Mitch's Uncensored Advice for Applying to Graduate School in Clinical Psychology

To expound on what we mean by "unfunded" programs, nearly all Ph.D. programs in clinical psychology waive tuition and pay a modest stipend for their students in exchange for the students working for the department as graduate assistants, research assistants, or teaching assistants. This works out well in the sense that students don't need to take out $200,000+ in loans for school, and they get relevant work experience for when they go on the job market. The high costs of attending Alliant or Palo Alto University are not the norm, and they prey on students who don't know better or who want to remain in California. When we say that a program is "unfunded", we're saying that the program does not pay you to attend.

Don't count on Public Service Loan Forgiveness being around forever. We don't know what will happen with education funding in 10 years' time, and it may be that by the time you are eligible (and there have been serious problems with how loan servicers have given students bad information, making them ineligible for PSLF after 10 years of hard work) that the program won't be around in its current form. Read the thread I linked; it talks more about the frankly major pitfalls of PSLF.

The low acceptance rates for doctoral programs seem scary, but what they don't tell you is that the process depends strongly on fit. If your research interests mesh well with a potential advisor at that program, then you generally have a decent shot. You're not necessarily competing with all 300 applications for a given program; many of them will be tossed because the applications are incomplete, the applicants are ineligible (e.g. GPA under 3.0), or the applicant's research interests do match with anyone in the program. You may be competing with 20-50 of those that are applying to the same lab you are, which are far better odds, and it doesn't necessarily come down to who has the best metrics. Don't limit yourself to professional schools simply because you don't think you're good enough for the university-based programs.

What about clinical psychology interests you specifically?

 

[foreverbull]

Agree with @WisNeuro and @Temperance.

That said, my warning to you would be: if you believe you wouldn’t be competitive for a funded or more reputable program, I’d urge you to really think about your motivations for wanting a doctorate.

I’ve said this in many threads over the years: not everyone is cut out for a doctorate or grad school at all, and folks need to be realistic about their abilities and experiences when considering future goals. Unfortunately, because these unfunded/large cohort programs aren’t going to be shut down soon, we have to just keep warning folks as much as possible to consider the consequences of a choice like this financially and to the field. Some folks would do fine with a master’s degree given their career goals (private practice, teaching adjunct).

I’m being more blunt than usual because I’ve seen so many people come on here and say they are just dead set on a doctorate but then may not have the experiences or GPA or abilities realistically to get it—but PsyD programs give them hope. I wish folks could really see the longterm effect of this on the field and in their own practice and their wallet, but it’s abstract for folks at this stage.

In the end, I urge you to do a very honest assessment of your motivations, abilities, and goals as you navigate this process.

Final note: If planning to work in CA, CA is super competitive for jobs, and this keeps salaries down for postdoc and early career psychologists, which is a huge problem if one has heavy loans to pay back—I say this as an ECP in CA. PSLF doesn’t start until you can afford to pay on your loans and do so at a nonprofit full time for 10 years straight. Sounds straightforward, but private practice doesn’t count and only if you are teaching a full course load every semester will it count when you teach (or if you are tenured, which is extremely competitive and difficult to obtain here).

 

[psych.meout]

Hi everyone, I am seeking some advice. Although I welcome constructive criticisms and warnings, I’d greatly appreciate if they were accompanied with some advice. A little background is I am a first generation college student and a 2nd generation American. I attended CSU, Chico and graduated with barely a 3.2 GPA. Getting a doctorate has always been a genuine and intrinsic want of mine. I also don’t want to stop at anything less because my family was never afforded the opportunity of education.

I get wanting to have and take advantage of opportunities that your family has not been afforded or wanting to move up the socioeconomic ladder, but that's really not a great reason to go for a doctorate. Post-graduate degrees should really be focused on achieving specific goals in terms of jobs, everyday work tasks and responsibilities, etc. In other words, you should get the degree that is required for you to get the jobs and day-to-day work life that you want. If you can attain those things with another kind of degree (e.g., terminal master's designed for licensure) that would be the more prudent plan.

With that being said, I eventually would like to either have a private practice or work as a JC professor, if not both.

Depending on the state, institution, etc., you can definitely have a private practice and adjunct at community colleges with just a master's degree.

As of right now I am considering going the professional route and am looking into PAU (Palo Alto University) and Alliant. I am weary of both due to high costs and reputation. From my google searches I believe PAU has a better reputation but would like your guys’ input on that. I am hesitant because of the high cost but have been justifying it in my mind because of the 10 year forgiveness plan.

I would not bet my financial future on a government program that might not exist by the time you finish grad school. It would be terrible to be saddled with Palo Alto level debt without PSLF or another program that prevents you from suffering a tax bomb at the end,

I also am not too worried about obtaining internships because I have families that work at state hospitals that said they could get me internships.

That's not what internships are like for clinical psychology. You don't just go anywhere and informally set up an internship like you would as an undergrad. It's a very formalized application, interview, and matching process and you absolutely don't want anything other than an APA accredited internship.

From my google research (not too credible) I have also heard that both of these programs are unfunded. I’m not quite sure what that means or how that will affect me if I chose these programs. On the other hand, the reason I am strongly leaning towards professional is because all the statistics for doctoral programs in the state have crazy competitive acceptance rates (I’m talking like 8 students out of 400). I don’t want to pursue a master’s because majority are terminal and I fear that by the time I finish and that... life will have already happened and something will come up that will prevent me going back to school.

What specifically do you want to do on a daily basis for a career that you can only do with a doctorate in clinical psychology? If you can do that stuff with just a master's, what's the problem? Why the fear of not going back to get a doctorate later on?

This all really seems like you are focused on getting a doctorate to say that you have one and can be called a doctor, rather than needing the doctorate to do the specific things that only a licensed psychologist can do.

 

[Mama Bear]

On the other hand, the reason I am strongly leaning towards professional is because all the statistics for doctoral programs in the state have crazy competitive acceptance rates (I’m talking like 8 students out of 400).

Yes, Many programs have stats like these. Also, many APA accredited and funded programs accept 6-10 students out of 50-100 applicants.

 

[cara susanna]

As others have said, knowing people at state hospitals won't help you get an internship. Unless maybe they're the psychology internship training director... but even then not necessarily.

 

[Temperance]

To clarify why we're talking about internships, "internship" when it refers to the pre-doctoral psychology internship is actually something of a misnomer. It's more akin to residency.

 

[PsychPhDone]

Hi everyone, I am seeking some advice. Although I welcome constructive criticisms and warnings, I’d greatly appreciate if they were accompanied with some advice. A little background is I am a first generation college student and a 2nd generation American. I attended CSU, Chico and graduated with barely a 3.2 GPA. Getting a doctorate has always been a genuine and intrinsic want of mine. I also don’t want to stop at anything less because my family was never afforded the opportunity of education. With that being said, I eventually would like to either have a private practice or work as a JC professor, if not both. As of right now I am considering going the professional route and am looking into PAU (Palo Alto University) and Alliant. I am weary of both due to high costs and reputation. From my google searches I believe PAU has a better reputation but would like your guys’ input on that. I am hesitant because of the high cost but have been justifying it in my mind because of the 10 year forgiveness plan. I also am not too worried about obtaining internships because I have families that work at state hospitals that said they could get me internships. From my google research (not too credible) I have also heard that both of these programs are unfunded. I’m not quite sure what that means or how that will affect me if I chose these programs. On the other hand, the reason I am strongly leaning towards professional is because all the statistics for doctoral programs in the state have crazy competitive acceptance rates (I’m talking like 8 students out of 400). I don’t want to pursue a master’s because majority are terminal and I fear that by the time I finish and that... life will have already happened and something will come up that will prevent me going back to school. I guess my main questions are: Is there a difference between PAU and Alliant? What are your warnings with my specific situation in mind? What does unfunded exactly mean? Lastly, I don’t know if this is allowed but I do have quite a good resume so if anyone would be willing to look it over and help guide my decisions based on that, that would be greatly beneficial because as I said, I am a first gen and don’t have anyone to look to for advice.

They are both extremely expensive and your comment about families getting you an internship is pretty gross, unethical, and most likely inaccurate.* Unless one of them is the training director, they probably have zero sway. And if it is the TD, they should recuse themselves when you apply.

It sounds like you want the education due the sake of it. I'd recommend taking some time getting more experience before making such a huge and pricey commitment. A master's is a decent idea given your GPA. Or doing full time research if you think you might want to teach one day.

* I don't think you were being intentionally unethical when you said this, it just isn't how it works. My husband's former bosses told him they'd be able to get me a job at PRESTIGIOUS MEDICAL SCHOOL no problem because of all their connections there. Nope. Not necessarily how that works.