Already receive my email "Did Not Match"

[canal]

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peppy, did you apply to only really competitive residency programs? BTW, I have a general question and its probably going to sound ignorant: why would a senior med. student apply to a pg2 program when you have to do a TY/prelim. somewhere else first anyway ? I don't get why residency programs are not all categorical...wouldn't that make things simpler?

 

[HCE]

Someone who does an IM or TY year can fairly easily transition into psych as a PGY-2 (yes, most of these positions are outside of the match so not in the stats). No, training needn't be prolonged, but you'll have to surrender almost all of your elective time to make up requirements that your colleagues would've covered in PGY-1. My advice is ABSOLUTELY scramble for an IM or TY spot and keep your ear to the ground for open PGY-2 spots next year (SDN can be helpful with that).

As for not matching being a mistake - I've known a handful of very talented students who failed to match because they did not correctly certify their match list.

On the flip side Doc, didn't a very prestigous northeast psych program not fill last year ? Mistakes happen...folks just have to attack the Scramble as best they can, with any help they can get from their Dean's office...if the Scramble doesn't work out, continue to search with reckless abandon....You see so many examples every year of people who seem to end up in a better situation post-match then they would have been had they matched at their top choice. You've all come too far to just throw in the towel.

 

[peppy]

I thought I had chosen a good mix of competitive and not so competitive, but I guess I underestimated. Believe me, I'm kicking myself for cancelling some of my interviews at lower tier places at the end of the interview season now.

What is the best way to find out where open spots are once the scramble is over? When do you know it's time to accept it won't happen this year and take a TRI spot?

 

[HCE]

I thought I had chosen a good mix of competitive and not so competitive, but I guess I underestimated. Believe me, I'm kicking myself for cancelling some of my interviews at lower tier places at the end of the interview season now.

What is the best way to find out where open spots are once the scramble is over? When do you know it's time to accept it won't happen this year and take a TRI spot?

Besides asking your Dean's office and supportive faculty to keep their eyes and ears open, and calling programs directly, try:


http://archive.psych.org/career_corner/careers_psych/clearinghouse/CHsearch.cfm

http://www.careermd.com/default.aspx

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/no-index/about-ama/6920.shtml

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/misc/classifiedads.dtl

 

[whopper]

I'm wondering if this could be an indication of a trend that more medstudents are going into psychiatry.

Positive thoughts to all who didn't Match. Good luck, and let us know what happens.

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm wondering if this could be an indication of a trend that more medstudents are going into psychiatry.

Me, too. Anyone know when the stats are released?

The match rate last year for U.S. seniors was 98%, correct? It could just be that SDN is getting more of the 2% on the threads this year. Fewer unfilled slots could be more international students matching. Or maybe I'm trying to find positive spin for us applying in the next couple of years.

Regardless, I hope all those left to scramble find happy homes.

 

[whopper]

Yeah. I know all I can really offer are words, but I remember being there, seeing my friends go through this heck, and hearing some good candidates here not Match reminds me of those days. I Matched to exactly where I wanted to go, and just felt helpless while wishing there was something I could do to help for my friends.

Can only say what I've said before. I hope for the best, and hope that maybe my positive thoughts will give you some type of karmic bonus.

 

[nancysinatra]

Are the numbers of total US med students applying for the match stable though? On another part of SDN they are saying that some schools have increased their class sizes or something like that and the increase in "competitiveness" is affecting everyone, not just psych. Maybe more DO applicants are applying in the MD match?

 

[PeeWee137]

pretty much all DOs interested in psych go thru the MD match. there are something like 7 DO psych residencies in the whole country.

 

[futuredo32]

I thought I had chosen a good mix of competitive and not so competitive, but I guess I underestimated. Believe me, I'm kicking myself for cancelling some of my interviews at lower tier places at the end of the interview season now.

What is the best way to find out where open spots are once the scramble is over? When do you know it's time to accept it won't happen this year and take a TRI spot?

This is just my guess. But maybe if you don't match in the scramble do a tri?
Maybe even register with findaresident after taking a tri spot? I know of one person who matched into EM last year in a DO program, Mt.Clemens actually and then did an optho rotation, decided she loved optho, got out of her obligation to do the EM residency, did a postgraduate optho fellowship and then matched into optho this year.

 

[daru1]

bzzzt....I swear you studentdoctor.neters(attendings and students alike) dont bother to actually look at the numbers.

There were 6 available "advanced" spots open this year..... Most probably filled with people who didn't even want to do psych a year ago but matched at good im/surgery/(insert program here) program as pgy-1's and said "I hate this, screw it, Im doing psych".........

Telling someone who wants to do psych to do a prelim med year because they have a good shot to get a psych spot next year as a pgy-2 is bs. It's a flat out lie. Yes, they have a near 100% shot(if they apply broadly) to get a spot as a categorical pgy-1, but there just arent even advanced slots available for pgy-2's who did a prelim med or whatever year. Can it happen? Sure......but the numbers suggest it won't.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you're wrong. There are MANY programs out there with PGY-2 slots available, it's just that most are offered outside of the match. I think that was why he referenced the 'you have to know where to find them' logic. To the posters looking at this, PGY-2 is/was a viable option. Once we find out why psych was so competitive this year (longer rank lists, more AMGs, etc...) the answer will become clearer.

 

[Doc Samson]

On the flip side Doc, didn't a very prestigous northeast psych program not fill last year ? Mistakes happen...folks just have to attack the Scramble as best they can, with any help they can get from their Dean's office...if the Scramble doesn't work out, continue to search with reckless abandon....You see so many examples every year of people who seem to end up in a better situation post-match then they would have been had they matched at their top choice. You've all come too far to just throw in the towel.

Thanks for helping me clarify - I'd take an IM or TY position if none of the available psych slots were reasonable matches (again, for many of the folks posting here geography seems to be a big issue). Yes - last year you could've potentially scrambled into slots at NYU, Yale, Longwood, or UF (or was that the year before). I guess we'll know the "quality" of open slots when someone posts the available slots list later today.

 

[wolfvgang22]

Best of luck to everybody who did not Match, you are in my prayers also.

I'm a USIMG and I matched in psych, maybe there are more of us than in the past, can't wait to see the data, comes out on Thursday also, doesn't it?

I ranked 19 programs, interviewed at 20...at the end of all that extra interviewing I figured I'd get one of my top 3 anyway, with 98 step 1 and 91 step 2, strong letters, etc. But now I don't know! Probably hanging on by my fingernails to number 19 on the list...what a crazy competitive year!

 

[peppy]

Pickings were slim in the scramble. Several times I called a program only to find out that they were choosing not to fill the spot or that the spot didn't exist.
I have decided on a traditional rotating internship and then retrying next year. Going for IM or family med just doesn't feel right. I'm just worried that once I commit to a TRI that a new psych spot will open up. That'd be just my luck.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Are the numbers of total US med students applying for the match stable though? On another part of SDN they are saying that some schools have increased their class sizes or something like that and the increase in "competitiveness" is affecting everyone, not just psych. Maybe more DO applicants are applying in the MD match?

I'm in the 2010 class, but my class had about 15 more students than the previous class, and I remember my school not being the only school that did the increase. I know there are a lot more spots than US grads, but it could figure in there somewhere.

Anyway, good luck to those of you still out there looking for spots. I'm sorry you're going through this and am as shocked as you guys.

 

[Doc Samson]

Here's the list that was posted on another forum, slim pickings indeed. Surprising that the Yale combined program didn't fill again.

Psychiatry (C programs)
This list was created on 03/17/2009 02:55:01
This list is updated every hour as programs fill their positions.

Connecticut Program
Code ACGME
Code Quota Filled
in Match Currently
Unfilled

Yale-New Haven Hosp-CT
Combined Adult/Child Psych 1089400C2 4000821042 2 1 1
Dorothy Stubbe

District Of Columbia Program
Code ACGME
Code Quota Filled
in Match Currently
Unfilled

Howard Univ Hosp-DC
Psychiatry 2193400C0* 4001021049 4 2 2
Janice Hutchinson
P: 202-865-6213
F: 202-865-6212
[email protected]

Ohio Program
Code ACGME
Code Quota Filled
in Match Currently
Unfilled

University Hospitals Case Med Ctr-OH
Psychiatry 1552400C0* 4003821174 7 6 1
Susan Stagno
P: 216-844-3450
F: 216-844-4741
[email protected]

Puerto Rico Program
Code ACGME
Code Quota Filled
in Match Currently
Unfilled

Univ of Puerto Rico
Psychiatry 1116400C0* 4004231201 6 2 1
Luz Colon

 

[peppy]

Yale was one of the programs that told me that they weren't looking to fill the spot, for whatever reason.

 

[Poitiers2]

Actually, I'm taking this off of here. I know there were a few other programs that didn't fill. One very prominent and well known. Major research dollars.

 

[cleareyedguy]

Yale was one of the programs that told me that they weren't looking to fill the spot, for whatever reason.

The 2 most likely reasons:
1. They didn't find anyone who they were willing to take and who was interested.

2 (more likely). residencies are given a specific total number of training positions which includes residents and fellows. For any of a variety of reasons, the program might have decided to pull that combined spot for at least this year. Reasons might include an unusually large pgy 4 class or a decision to go with fellows in a different subspecialty (or traditional child fellows).

 

[wolfvgang22]

Actually, I'm taking this off of here. I know there were a few other programs that didn't fill. One very prominent and well known. Major research dollars.

????
I don't understand what you are saying in the first sentence above, could you elaborate?

Also, how do you know there are other programs that didn't fill? Some third hand hearsay? Because DocSamson just posted the actual list. I'm not flaming you, I just would like to know why you say what you do, if you have reasons.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

#1 is the most likely with this program, based on what I was told during my interview with them. I think they said they only interviewed about 6 people for the 2 slots, not for lack of applications.

edit: referring to cleareyedguy's post on the yale combined program.

 

[wolfvgang22]

The 2 most likely reasons:
1. They didn't find anyone who they were willing to take and who was interested.

2 (more likely). residencies are given a specific total number of training positions which includes residents and fellows. For any of a variety of reasons, the program might have decided to pull that combined spot for at least this year. Reasons might include an unusually large pgy 4 class or a decision to go with fellows in a different subspecialty (or traditional child fellows).

I can buy #1. Yale in the above list declined to interview me, for example, and I was competitive enough to match.

But #2 - I don't know about that either way. Aren't programs required to withdraw positions from the match prior to the rank order list deadline if the position won't be available in the Match? If so, it shouldn't show up in the scramble at all. It should be a NRMP match violation to list non-existant positions, as that wastes all our time and money in the match, and wastes time in the scramble and gives false hopes to applicants.

 

[billypilgrim37]

Yale shoots themselves in the foot with their combined program by requiring applicants to give a talk. I remember canceling my interview there because, looking two weeks before the interview, I had about four other interviews and no time to throw together a powerpoint presentation while I was still in the middle of data analysis. When there are 20 great programs in the country, and you can't interview at all of them, it's easy to use the presentation an excuse.

For one, it originally struck me as being ridiculously pretentious--"we're Yale, and we're so great that you should have to do homework FOR US when you interview here." I don't think this is their intent at all, because after speaking with the director of that program, I did really feel they wanted the talk to be fairly informal and as much a get-to-know-you as possible. But I'd already made the decision to cancel the interview at that point. I don't think many people would bother interviewing at MGH or Columbia if they were required to give a presentation.

I spoke with a handful of people on the trail who were excellent, qualified applicants who felt the same way I did, and who, like me, were interested in research careers in child psychiatry with already well-determined interests. A friend from my med school, whose desired career path fit their program just as well as mine did, didn't bother applying at all for the same reasons I just described.

With two years of not matching folks into the program, they should really reconsider the presentation. I don't think it's because there aren't more than 6 qualified people who would flourish there in the entire country. And it's a very cool program, working with very cool people. They were a little thin in my research interests, but it's a big enough program that no research hungry resident would go hungry.

 

[wolfvgang22]

Presentation? Yuck. Sounds like some of the NY programs that I have heard give tests to applicants on interivew day. Not the best way to get high on my ROL.

Stupid for a program to do things that makes certain they won't fill. Less residents = more call for everybody, for one thing.

 

[dianamd]

Sounds like some of the NY programs that I have heard give tests to applicants on interivew day.

Not to detract from this otherwise important thread, but I interviewed at nearly EVERY NYC program, including smaller ones, and nobody came close to giving me a test on the interview day. I wouldn't have minded, however, all the more evidence to learn about a program....

Just wanted to clarify to future applicants.

 

[CarleneM]

I gave a talk for Yale's child program. Definitely dreaded it at the time and it was a lot more formal than i was led to believe (was told it would be mainly residents and fellows- instead it was all the senior faculty of the child study center and a few fellows!). I think that because it is a 6 year track with a significant emphasis on research, they need to be sure about their investment. It is common to give "job talks" when applying for academic faculty positions and I think they take a similar approach. That being said, because it is the only program to do so for residency interviews, I agree it can come across somewhat poorly. Just to be clear, the Yale adult program does not require a talk. Oh and the child track definitely interviewed more than 6 people. They take your picture and the lady taking it showed me pics of some of the other applicants- definitely like 8-10 people not counting me, the guy i interviewed with and MoM. I think they may rank only 6 or less people though...

BTW, i've seen the list of some of the 11 scramble positions but have yet to see the full list before spots got spoken for. Does anyone have that full list???? My ears perk up when I hear they potentially include programs in the Northeast.

 

[NJWxMan]

I'm kinda confused by Case not filling. Home to the national leader in forensics, national leader in bipolar DO, and another world renown leader in child, and not filling? Q7 call as a first year and brand NEW facilities (beautiful too) to boot.

 

[Solideliquid]

presentation? Yuck. Sounds like some of the ny programs that i have heard give tests to applicants on interivew day. Not the best way to get high on my rol.

Stupid for a program to do things that makes certain they won't fill. Less residents = more call for everybody, for one thing.

 

[whopper]

I've found the interview, LORs, grades to not be the best indicators of what made a future resident. If anything, my own program got some people who were very good conversationalists, which looked great on interview, but when we got to know them better, turned out it went hand in hand with some negative personality traits such as narcissism, cliquishness, or histrionicism, which only became apparent after we had them & were stuck with them.

My wife's Counseling program is actually suffering from plenty of the above. These people are supposed to be future Counselors, but act in the same manner you'd expect to see from a high school clique.

2 of the best residents my program had were quiet, shy and reserved. That's not the type of thing that makes one stand out during interviews.

You'd expect LORs to weed out these people, but corporate psychological testing shows that LORs have very little validity & reliability. Wish I could quote some figures, but its been years since I took a Industrial Psychology class.

I've felt there needed to be more to get to know someone. Unfortunately that extra thing I wanted was to see how that person worked over the course of a few months. Few get that chance unless the student rotated through the department.

The next best thing was if someone you knew--that you trusted very much, who worked hard, cared about the field reccomended a person, and was willing to stake their rep on the person. That transcended grades because I've seen plenty of people with bad grades/scores end up being good residents, and good grades/scores be bad residents. Unfortunately taking someone using that criteria, which from my own experience had good validity & reliability, opens the door of being accused of nepotism. Especially if there's someone else connected to the program who wants someone in, and that someone else is not reliable (showed up to work late all the time, didn't know what he was doing-Zoloft for psychosis), nor is the person they want looking good as a candidate. You're going to look like you're playing favorites.

Some of the tests I've seen-I didn't understand why a program would want to do that. E.g. one program gave applicants a test pretty much on the order of a USMLE--medical questions, multiple choice. Why? You got their USMLE scores & their medschool scores.

The Yale thing sounds pretty interesting to me, but I don't know much about it.

 

[TX515]

Peppy, sorry to hear about your situation. My heart sinks for you. I am looking up this hill, I'm applying 2010. Won't it be great to have a job?

 

[masterofmonkeys]

I gave a talk for Yale's child program. Definitely dreaded it at the time and it was a lot more formal than i was led to believe (was told it would be mainly residents and fellows- instead it was all the senior faculty of the child study center and a few fellows!). I think that because it is a 6 year track with a significant emphasis on research, they need to be sure about their investment. It is common to give "job talks" when applying for academic faculty positions and I think they take a similar approach. That being said, because it is the only program to do so for residency interviews, I agree it can come across somewhat poorly. Just to be clear, the Yale adult program does not require a talk. Oh and the child track definitely interviewed more than 6 people. They take your picture and the lady taking it showed me pics of some of the other applicants- definitely like 8-10 people not counting me, the guy i interviewed with and MoM. I think they may rank only 6 or less people though...

I can understand their desire to have you do a presentation. It annoyed me, but given that I've presented my work a few times at national conferences, it wasn't a huge deal.

That said, the interview requirements, the presentation, and the day itself set a pretty 'hardcore' tone. They want people who not only have participated in research but are more or less ready to jump off into the deep end on their own. The CSC is also basically wholly independent from the psychiatry dept at large. My impression from the day was that they were looking for a very specific type of person, something that not even most research-oriented people are.

I honestly think they're always going to have a tough time filling that program, no matter how they present it.

 

[peppy]

Peppy, sorry to hear about your situation. My heart sinks for you. I am looking up this hill, I'm applying 2010. Won't it be great to have a job?

I saw that you are a third year and not in the same boat. Consider yourself lucky. It is very discouraging, especially when everyone else seems to be confused by why I didn't match too.

Now I am worrying about what comes next. I want to interview at and rank a lot more programs next time, but how am I going to find time to go on interviews during an internship? What will I do about letters of recommendation next time? It seems embarrassing to go back to the people I got my old letters from to ask for new versions, but yet I don't know how flexible a traditional internship will be in getting to do new psychiatry rotations where I can meet new letter writers.

 

[TX515]

Sorry, for clarification I'm a third year. But I'll be applying broadly. I think you were given some pretty good advice, try to slide into a PY2 slot. This is a hurdle, not a road block. Stay optimistic, roll with it. It always works out in the end. Love.

 

[billypilgrim37]

My impression from the day was that they were looking for a very specific type of person, something that not even most research-oriented people are.

What, junior faculty? 😉

 

[m1forever]

Here's the list that was posted on another forum, slim pickings indeed. Surprising that the Yale combined program didn't fill again.

1) they didn't want to/had no intention to
2) I think it's silly to count combined programs as one of the "unfilled" slots anyways
3) Michigan State also filled in reality as they informed me they had no intention of filling that slot and they prematched everything they wanted
4) Puerto rico shouldn't be counted either as a real spot because they have a bilingual requirement and also were satisfied with filling 2 slots(and four of the 11 unfilled were them). They've now taken themselves completely off the nrmp website without filling a single one of those 4 slots
5) it's also kinda silly to count the case spot as a real slot too for reasons mentioned previously


The only program that has actually filled a true psych slot in the scramble so far is Tulane. Case will fill their spot today if they happened to find someone within driving distance to interview. As for howard, we'll see if they decide to fill those 2 slots or not.

So that essentially means that there was somewhere between 1 and 4 spots in the scramble this year. Unbelievable.

 

[Regnvejr]

Sorry, you guys. I hope the best for you, waiting a year is aggravating. I hope you get something arranged. This is where your Dean of Students earn their pay by helping and calling friends. Talk with them. Sometimes there are slots created because the site didn't fill last year, and therefore some creative accounting can set up an extra place this year (Our program did that). Your dean of students should be able to ferret some of those spots out.

 

[BabyPsychDoc]

Like you, I have a unique situation also. I have a totally awesome Grandma who is going to be 93 in April. She broke both of her hips since I started med school and has some dementia and needs someone with her 24/7. I have family members who help me to take care of her and I use some of my student loans to hire home health aides when I'm doing a rotation and my relatives can't help, but I need to be living in the area to help take care of her. So, moving out of the area isn't an option for me. I have had past deferments and forebearances and reconsolidated my loans and I'm trying to figure out if I can get another forebearance. The FAFSA people weren't too helpful. Being that my Grandma isn't getting any younger or healthier, if I can sit out the year without defaulting on my loans, that's what I'm going to do. I would have gladly started a PGY-1 year in a psych residency, but I don't think I want to sacrifice any precious time that I could have with my Grandma to do an intern year. If I don't have any time left on my deferments or forebearances, I guess I'll do an intern year and hope for better luck next year? 😕

I know that I don't want to do FP(don't like OB and don't really enjoy physically ill kids). I like IM, but like FP, it's just too broad for me and I just like psych so much better. There was no close second choice for me. If there were, I would go for the second choice. Not matching just sucks and I didn't match twice this year (once in the DO match and once in the MD match). I don't want to not match again, but there's really nothing else I like that much.

I had heard kinda early that a lot of people from MSUCOM were applying for psych this year. I've only heard of one person from MSUCOM interested in psych for next year. Have you heard anything?

Futuredo, my hat is off to you - I was kind of surprised to read that you have not matched this year, but this post makes it clear why. I just hope I could have a grandchild like yourself when I am 93! Wishing you the best of luck for the next year's Match.