Alternative Career Options

[strangehuman]

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I've been reading the archives regarding alternative careers for MDs and what job opportunities are available without completing internship year, yet alone residency. There have been several different perspectives on this topic, but I've definitely noted a slant toward encouraging posters to stick with residency, especially if one has no alternative plan.

I am curious if anyone has any experience or advice regarding not doing any form of residency and instead going back to graduate school for a PhD. I am not interested in practicing clinical medicine in any form, would rather focus purely on research or potentially research combined with public policy, and I have specific areas in which I am interested. I suppose the earning potential is likely less than with the option to supplement income with practice... In any case, anyone decide to go this route? Any advice, regrets, etc?

Thanks.

 

[sirus_virus]

I've been reading the archives regarding alternative careers for MDs and what job opportunities are available without completing internship year, yet alone residency. There have been several different perspectives on this topic, but I've definitely noted a slant toward encouraging posters to stick with residency, especially if one has no alternative plan.

I am curious if anyone has any experience or advice regarding not doing any form of residency and instead going back to graduate school for a PhD. I am not interested in practicing clinical medicine in any form, would rather focus purely on research or potentially research combined with public policy, and I have specific areas in which I am interested. I suppose the earning potential is likely less than with the option to supplement income with practice... In any case, anyone decide to go this route? Any advice, regrets, etc?

Thanks.

I dont think this is necessary if you already have an MD. Just find a lab and do post-doc work if you are interested in research.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I know a guy who did it-- graduated just this past year, 2008, and decided he was interested in neither clinical neurology or psychiatry, so he went back to Princeton to get a PhD in neuroscience.

I have another friend, a current ENT resident, who earned a PhD in health economics before med school. All of her research is on health policy and financing, nothing in ENT. She's going to be applying for (ENT) faculty positions when she finishes and again, all of her research will be in health policy. So you needn't necessarily abandon clinical medicine, even if your passion is in these para-medical fields.

 

[DrJosephKim]

It's a really long road to go back to full-time schooling. There are so many options that most people don't even realize. I'd encourage people to make sure they do their homework and explore all the possibilities.

 

[dragonfly99]

blonddocteur,
how did your friend pay his student loans with a PhD stipend...LOL!
He must have either rich parents or had a scholarship to med school.

 

[FatPigeon]

I've noticed that, especially if you're a surgical subspecialist, you can often write a book about your experiences and have it published. I feel as if this is sort of a toolish thing to do, and they're all more or less the exact same story... "When the attending first handed me the scalpel and told me to make the incision, my mind raced and my body froze, etc. etc., unnecessary drama, I urinated in my pants, and so on."

...but it's a viable option if you get sick of your career. Of course you'd have to practice for a while first. It may be possible to start with something lame, and once you've earned a publisher's loyalty inch toward fiction, philosophy, or whatever your real interest is.

 

[StreamTeam]

Finish your clinical training, your MD degree is worthless without clinical training. It is your MD degree with board certification which will open up the most doors to you, even if you go into research, or work for a drug company. The most well known physician executives (such as William McGuire MD of United Healthcare) were board certified ex clinicians. Residency training will even make it easier for you to get grants if you become a research scientist. It both looks better and gives you a real world perspective on health research that is lacking in a "lab rat". I knew of a couple of guys who got MD-PhD's and went straight into basic science research, without doing residency training. They had hard times getting grant money and each said to me that they wished they had done residency training. You will always be treated as a second class citizen in an academic medical center as an MD if you dont finish your clinical training, even if you have no intention of using it.

 

[Law2Doc]

I've noticed that, especially if you're a surgical subspecialist, you can often write a book about your experiences and have it published.

I wouldn't say "often". There are probably many people (>100) who send in manuscripts each year but maybe 1-2 new surgeon books each year at best. And of those, probably 1 a decade that actually makes enough money to live on. The Atul Gawande's of the world are quite rare; that kind of success is akin to winning the lottery. (And note that despite his success, he didn't quit his day job -- without new material, the stories dry up quite rapidly). So no, I'd say it's not actually a viable option for many. Particularly if you are not already a very strong writer with a compelling story or two.

 

[RangerD]

You can go into sales for a medical devise company or a pharm company. (I did this prior to medical school) Nice gig if you can get it. Medical device sales makes more $$. Many of the companies would salivate over having an actual MD push their product. If you are good, you'll make more than primary care docs and more than some specialists. Of course, you have to be good talking to people.

 

[Law2Doc]

You can go into sales for a medical devise company or a pharm company. (I did this prior to medical school) Nice gig if you can get it. Medical device sales makes more $$. Many of the companies would salivate over having an actual MD push their product. If you are good, you'll make more than primary care docs and more than some specialists. Of course, you have to be good talking to people.

Even for this, far more doors open if you first go into residency and get licensed. See for example the DO resident who pitches hydroxycut on late night TV.

 

[RangerD]

Even for this, far more doors open if you first go into residency and get licensed. See for example the DO resident who pitches hydroxycut on late night TV.

Yes, most that do this go into residency first, but that is because most people that go through medical school proceed into residency. It is very rare for someone to not even do an internship, as the OP suggested.

However, those sales jobs just have a requirement of only a bachelor's degree as a prerequisite, and this can be any bachelor's degree (not BS specific). Thus, someone who went through med school will far exceed the training of their typical applicant. But as I said before, the ability to communicate effectively is key. Prior sales experience is preferred, but if not sales skills can be learned. Sales isn't easy and regardless of the MD behind someone's name, if they don't increase sales, they will be on the street.

 

[howelljolly]

I dont think this is necessary if you already have an MD. Just find a lab and do post-doc work if you are interested in research.

This is not true at all. To get into serious research with just an MD, one of your better options is to do a residency or fellowship with a research track. You could also find out how to publish your pants off in any residency. With an MD, your role in research with not be that of someone with an MS in basic science. You'll have to pull your weight.

A well known doctor who did a research track residency is Dr Carlos Pestana from UT San Antonio

Of course there are other ways to get into research, but I'm not one to rely on hitting the lottery.
Check out the physician scientist forum on the SDN.

 

[tr]

I know a guy who did it-- graduated just this past year, 2008, and decided he was interested in neither clinical neurology or psychiatry, so he went back to Princeton to get a PhD in neuroscience.

This is A.P., is it? Check back with him in 5 years, ten to one he is going to regret his decision.

I am not interested in practicing clinical medicine in any form, would rather focus purely on research or potentially research combined with public policy, and I have specific areas in which I am interested.

I would need to know more about your area of interest to give you advice.

If you already have significant experience in your field of interest, I would look for any way that you can combine this with residency training. Based on the combo with public policy I'm guessing it's public health or something related? If so, use your research background to get a residency slot with significant time available for research. This will make the transition easier and you won't lose any time. If your research in your residency is successful you can continue easily towards an academic career with the additional credentials and experience of being a board-certified doc. If you find research a harder game than you'd anticipated, no harm no foul and you still have a fallback.

Going back for a PhD is pointless if your research interest is AT ALL related to the biomedical field. Unless you're talking about a PhD in philosophy or English literature, don't do it. At the completion of your PhD you will have THE SAME opportunities for career advancement that you do now with an MD. If you are dead set against clinical medicine you can still get a research fellowship or postdoc with your MD alone. You will be trained in your chosen area but you will earn (slightly) more than a graduate student, you will save several years en route to faculty, and you will not dance to the whims of a capricious advisor for an indefinite period of time.

And yeah, troll by the MD-PhD forum for more input.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

This is A.P., is it? Check back with him in 5 years, ten to one he is going to regret his decision.

TR, it is indeed (obviously). A lot of us are still puzzling over it, since as you rightly said, nothing was stopping him from taking a research gig now and working his way up.

 

[donesoon]

Going back for a PhD is pointless if your research interest is AT ALL related to the biomedical field. Unless you're talking about a PhD in philosophy or English literature, don't do it. At the completion of your PhD you will have THE SAME opportunities for career advancement that you do now with an MD. If you are dead set against clinical medicine you can still get a research fellowship or postdoc with your MD alone. You will be trained in your chosen area but you will earn (slightly) more than a graduate student, you will save several years en route to faculty, and you will not dance to the whims of a capricious advisor for an indefinite period of time.

As a graduating mudphud, I agree with this. Lots of opportunities from the NIH for loan-repaying research (www.lrp.nih.gov) or research opportunities during med school (www.hhmi.org/cloister). I don't regret doing a PhD but I know that there are a lot of MDs doing great research out there, who went through these programs. But I would also agree with the point of doing residency to have a backup clinical option... research money is a bit tighter now and it's always better to be able to supplement with clinical work if you are in a dry spell. Some residencies also allow you to get an advanced degree during your training.