Am I applying to enough programs?

[axm028400]

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Hi,
Due to family obligations, I am applying to all 10 programs in Texas, but that's it so far, and I was wondering if anyone could give me feedback as to whether that is enough. Here is some info on me:
DO school
5 year med student due to Maternity LOA
Top 1/3 of class, 3.54 GPA
SSP member (honors osteopathic service fraternity)
LOTS of Extracurriculars, work study first two years of med school
One JACS publication in undergrad in unrelated field; one semester of psych research
USMLE step 1: 202, COMLEX step 1: 505
USMLE step 2: 213, COMLEX step 2 CE: 564, COMLEX PE scheduled, will not have been taken when application submitted
Any feedback would be GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[peppy]

My view is that most applicants should aim for 10-12 interviews.
The problem is that you can't be sure which programs will invite you to interview. Most people don't get invited to interview at every program they apply to (for one reason or another, even if your stats are above average for the program they may not invite you).
For that reason, personally I think you should try to find a few more programs that would be acceptable to you to apply to in order to give yourself a safe cushion. If there's no way you could go to any other psych programs, then I might consider applying to some other programs in the area (like IM prelim years or such, since an IM prelim or transitional year can count for your intern year in psych).
My view may seem conservative, but since scrambling and/or reapplying is so stressful and costly I think it's worth it to be extra conservative.
Good luck to you!

 

[TexasPhysician]

I agree that I would add a few more. Odds are, you won't have trouble matching in TX. However (after applying to most TX programs myself last year), some schools won't interview overqualified students because they KNOW they won't go there.

Everyone I know that applied psych from my MD school and ranked a TX program #1, got their #1. So expect to match in TX but I'd advise a few more programs just for safety.

 

[whopper]

The problem is that you can't be sure which programs will invite you to interview. Most people don't get invited to interview at every program they apply to (for one reason or another, even if your stats are above average for the program they may not invite you).

Exactly.

You'll likely be safe if you have at least 8 programs for interviews, but why put yourself in that posiition? This is your future at stake. Try to position yourself into at least 10.

This was years ago, but when I applied into the MATCH, if you added several programs into the application, it didn't cost much more, and it was little effort. You just had to check which programs you wanted to add. You can always turn down programs without looking bad.

But, how many programs will it take for you to get at least 10 interviews? I don't know. That depends on several factors such as your USMLE scores, your LORs, etc.

 

[heyjack70]

I guess I'll 4th the suggestion above. I would suggest applying to around 15 programs with the goal of interviewing at 10. You may get invited to interview at all 15, and if you have to decline some offers that is fine. But that is better than applying to 10 and only getting 5 interview offers.

Also, submit your application as soon as ERAS allows it. It doesn't need to have all (or any) LOR's, transcripts, etc before you can submit. Some programs will offer interviews with just board scores and your personal statement available. I had a buddy wait until all his material was in before applying to programs (this was in early October) and he didn't get any interviews. He luckily ended up getting a spot in the scramble.

 

[whopper]

I would suggest applying to around 15 programs with the goal of interviewing at 10.

Careful there cowboy.

Depending on which 15 programs those are, a person might not even get 1 interview.

A person could apply to 30 programs and only get small handful depending on the programs even with good scores and LORs.

There's hardly any risk or problems with applying to too many programs given how the MATCH was structured when I applied. Things may have changed. Maybe it's different now. I don't know. I've never seen any program hold it against a person if they politely turned down an interview if that person had too many. It's not a problem to be offered too many interviews because then you just politely turn down any of them over 12-15.

Not getting enough interviews, now that's a problem that can end up costing you a year, if not worse, like not getting into a residency at all, or a malignant one, in which case you're efffed for 4 years.

 

[heyjack70]

Careful there cowboy.

Depending on which 15 programs those are, a person might not even get 1 interview.

A person could apply to 30 programs and only get small handful depending on the programs even with good scores and LORs.

I think applying to 15 psychiatry programs and hoping for 10 interviews is reasonable, though I don't know anything about the OP other than stats from the first post. Hopefully the OP isn't deluded enough to think she could apply to only upper tier programs and expect 2/3 of them to offer interviews. That being said, maxing the number of programs you apply to through ERAS/NRMP before being subject to extra application fees makes good sense to me. I just found out you can apply to 20 programs, then additional programs cost $30 each. That $30 could add up quickly. Another 10 programs is $300, but if you have to stay in Texas it's a moot point. Though, as folks have mentioned it is the OP's future we're talking about, so how can anyone but the NRMP put a price on that?

I would strongly consider applying to the residencies close by in Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Kansas. If staying in Texas is a strict requirement, the OP should think about prelim medicine years and rank them last on the list with the plan to transfer into psych as an R2 (though this is probably a stressful route to take).

 

[Manicsleep]

Have you done electives at any of these programs and do you have LORs from any of these programs. In my case I only applied to 7 programs but I had done electives/rotations at 3 programs which were my top 3 and had received informal offers after speaking with the training directors. I also had LORs from those programs. Is one of these places your medical school? Your medical school residency will almost always interview you and with your credentials, should take you.

Other than that, always have a few backups. I think 15 is enough if you apply reasonably. Obviously if you are applying to every program in a state you are going to have a variety of programs so you should be ok.

 

[axm028400]

Thanks so much for everyone's responses. My situation is that my husband is applying to medical school at all of the schools in Texas and due to financial reasons we are really trying to avoid applying out of state. In addition we have a child and moving farther away without her grandparents support/help would be a challenge. I have only done one sub-I at one of these programs thus far, but am amenable to doing another one in the future. I also have considered applying to other specialties, but if I actually matched into them I don't think I'd be happy. So maybe I should just bite the bullet and apply more broadly, b/c if my husband gets into medical school and I don't match and then have to match in just one area that will be even more stressful (my husband has solid credentials and will most likely get in most, if not everywhere, he applies). I really appreciate all of the feedback!

 

[whopper]

I just found out you can apply to 20 programs, then additional programs cost $30 each. That $30 could add up quickly. Another 10 programs is $300, but if you have to stay in Texas it's a moot point

Which is something that may have been different when I applied. I don't remember. I just remember at the time, IMHO, the cost/benefit ratio was to the degree where I felt applying to more programs was worth it.

$30 per program after 20 IMHO is not too expensive a price if one is realistically not sure of their prospects. Spending an extra $300 IMHO when your future could rest on this IMHO is not a high price to pay. This is a complex issue because aside from the multifactorial dynamics of this situation, the new year could also be dramatically more competitive than the previous year. One would only find out after the fact, and that could be too late.

I do believe that medical students are in a better situation than most of them believe. Their previous frame of reference was getting into medical school. In that situation, it's often hundreds of applicants for each spot, and the school only takes people with top scores.

However, for residency, that's not the situation. There's often 0 to dozens of applicants for a spot, and mediocre grades can still land you in a decent residency.

So medical students may tremble and fear, perhaps a little too much as a whole. That said, however, given how important the situation is, I would rather someone take this a little too seriously and get in, vs. not get into a program.

 

[markglt]

i think most psych programs are getting hundreds of apps.. at least last year they were

 

[axm028400]

Hi,
Thanks again for everyone's comments. I am definitely not worried about the costs of applying to more programs, the big concern is the difference between out of state/private school vs. in state tuition for my husband, as I went to a private med school and we both also have undergrad debt, plus the costs of us BOTH applying/interviewing this fall all over the country. But I do understand that it may be more beneficial to do this than to risk not matching. I am considering another sub-I as well to help increase my chances of matching in state. Thanks again so much for everyone's comments!

 

[heyjack70]

It's not unheard of for applicants to apply to multiple specialties also. If you are somewhat interested in family med, for example, that would definitely increase the number of Texas residencies available, and again you could simply rank those programs lower than psychiatry. This may actually be a better strategy than going after prelim years because this way if you match family med you have a full residency which you could complete, or theoretically transfer out of into psych.

Another thought: I met an applicant when I was interviewing whose husband just landed a corporate job (read $$$, at least 150K a year) in a city out west. She basically had to land a residency in that city. To her, location was more important than specialty, so she was applying to psych, IM, FM, peds, and surgery at the same institution. Given your life situation, applying to multiple specialties for geographic reasons sounds more than reasonable.

 

[notdeadyet]

I met an applicant when I was interviewing whose husband just landed a corporate job (read $$$, at least 150K a year) in a city out west. She basically had to land a residency in that city. To her, location was more important than specialty, so she was applying to psych, IM, FM, peds, and surgery at the same institution.

Worst. Idea. Ever. Choosing a location for 4 years vs. a career you'll be doing for 30-40 years is just bad juju.

Hubby's got to man up and do the half a marriage thing. If someone is professionally capable of landing a $150K/year job, they probably have the qualifications to land a $75K/year job somewhere else. And you get major marriage kharma for kissing away a great job for your partner. Can milk it for years...

 

[Manicsleep]

I haven't been to an AADPRT meeting in a while but I remember that the ratio of US grad applicants per spot was about 5-15 for the vast majority of programs. This also falls in line with the 10:1 ratio of ranks to spots that a lot of programs use when they submit their match lists.

Remember a lot of the applicants are IMGs and you have a much greater chance of admission. Also, as a DO you are eligible for pre-match, so ask about it at your AI/Sub I.