Am I being honest w/ myself? --PMR vs. family med

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Spazz

I've held onto family med for the longest time, knowing how much I want to work with all ages and to be able to know and do a little of everything.

But I realize how much more important $ and lifestyle are to me. I am in a crapload of debt, and sometime down the line I'm gonna have kids to put through college and a mortgage to pay off. I gotta live comfortably (I'm from Cali and hope to settle down in the Bay Area or L.A.)

I always get PMR on my top 3 or 4 for those specialty compatability tests, and the more I think about it and hear about it, the more attractive PMR seems to me. I always felt I was headed toward be an FP in a community setting, all my experiences have been in FP. I'm not a strong applicant anyways (Step 1 203, leave of absence for health reasons, repeating a failed clerkship) so I've tried convincing myself that things in life have worked out to close the door on more competitive specialties like PMR to ensure I "fulfill that destiny" of being an FP.

Some (mis?)conceptions I'd like you to challenge or support, please--
-PM&R is too focused to allow me to do international medicine relief work
-PM&R doesn't offer enough satisfaction in terms of diversity of problems and pt. population
-PM&R lets you see quicker results than in Family Med
-You're less likely to kill a pt. in PM&R, you're less likely to get sued
-Very few Pain MD's are unsatisfied compared to FP's.
-PMR is rapidly evolving and offers more excitement and potential for compensation as the pt population gets older and the demand increases.

Anyone else in this situation? I've known a few former FP-bound students who made the leap into PMR.

Lots of questions and issues. Any takers on any of these? Thx!
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I've tried convincing myself that things in life have worked out to close the door on more competitive specialties like PMR to ensure I "fulfill that destiny" of being an FP.
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Despite what some people here insist, PM&R is not competetive. Maybe because most of the posters here are looking to go to one of 5 programs where there actually is competition, but then there's dozens that aren't competetive and only fill because of DOs and FMGs. I think everyone who is a U.S. MD graduate and wants a position in PM&R can get one.

Average board score is 208.

Some (mis?)conceptions I'd like you to challenge or support, please--
-PM&R is too focused to allow me to do international medicine relief work
-PM&R doesn't offer enough satisfaction in terms of diversity of problems and pt. population
-PM&R lets you see quicker results than in Family Med
-You're less likely to kill a pt. in PM&R, you're less likely to get sued
-Very few Pain MD's are unsatisfied compared to FP's.
-PMR is rapidly evolving and offers more excitement and potential for compensation as the pt population gets older and the demand increases.
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Why are you worried about this? These are all tangential issues. Do a rotation in PM&R and see if the quality of work is something that's acceptable. More relevant questions to ask would be: "Do you like the Neuro exam?", "Do you like inpatient medicine?" It's a big change from Family Practice.
 
Spazz said:
Some (mis?)conceptions I'd like you to challenge or support, please--
-PM&R is too focused to allow me to do international medicine relief work
-PM&R doesn't offer enough satisfaction in terms of diversity of problems and pt. population
-PM&R lets you see quicker results than in Family Med
-You're less likely to kill a pt. in PM&R, you're less likely to get sued
-Very few Pain MD's are unsatisfied compared to FP's.
-PMR is rapidly evolving and offers more excitement and potential for compensation as the pt population gets older and the demand increases.

Anyone else in this situation? I've known a few former FP-bound students who made the leap into PMR.

Lots of questions and issues. Any takers on any of these? Thx!
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Spazz,

I think that you need to do a rotation in the specialty and see if it is right for you. I would suggest that you try to do one at an established, university-based program that will expose you to both inpatient and outpatient aspects of the specialty.

1) Sure, physiatrists can do international work and this is an emerging area for the field. Your role will be different than a primary care physician and likely revolve around building and developing infrastructure in developing for managing disability and chronic disease.

2) PM&R is very broad in scope. There is a lot of "Humpty-Dumpty" medicine. Satisfaction tends to be a personal issue, but is generally experienced more in a longitudinal fashion than other specialties.

3) Physiatrists get sued just like other physicians. Failure to recognize and diagnose acute medical issues on the rehab unit is the most frequent reason. Many physiatrists do medico-legal work, workers compensation, occupational medicine, and expert witness work.

4) Don't confuse pain specialists with physiatrists. Pain medicine is a sub-specialty of physiatry, anesthesiololgy, and neurology/psychiatry. Many physiatrists do chronic pain, but many do not.

5) Physiatry may be experiencinig an"uptick" in visability as the field has historically experienced professional growth when our country goes to war. Returning injured soliders are likely to have have disability issues and rehabilitation needs for the next half-century.

6) I can't comment on your individual competitiveness. Like every other specialty, some residency programs are more competitive than others. I imagine that there are some very competitive family medicine residency programs and very non-competitive ones.
 
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Llenroc said:
Despite what some people here insist, PM&R is not competetive. Maybe because most of the posters here are looking to go to one of 5 programs where there actually is competition, but then there's dozens that aren't competetive and only fill because of DOs and FMGs. I think everyone who is a U.S. MD graduate and wants a position in PM&R can get one.
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Sorry, I have to *cough* at the statement that dozens of "non-competitive" programs only fill because of DOs and FMGs.
 
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Llenroc said:
Despite what some people here insist, PM&R is not competetive. Maybe because most of the posters here are looking to go to one of 5 programs where there actually is competition, but then there's dozens that aren't competetive and only fill because of DOs and FMGs. I think everyone who is a U.S. MD graduate and wants a position in PM&R can get one.
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I'm an evidence based kinda guy... I'm more than willing to believe your statements (the bolded points above) if you can back it up, otherwise maybe your advice should be at least grounded in personal experience.
 
TUCOMSam said:
I'm an evidence based kinda guy... I'm more than willing to believe your statements (the bolded points above) if you can back it up, otherwise maybe your advice should be at least grounded in personal experience.
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Well....I guess RIC, Kessler, Spaulding and Mayo have been so starved for applicants that they've apparently had to accept a fair amt of DO's lately;)
 
yes - it has been very hard on all of us MDs at RIC to have to lower our standards so much to allow those damn DOs in!! :laugh:

Seriously, we have gone through the whole DO vs MD issue ad nauseum on this forum. Suffice to say DOs have made some of the best physiatrists in this country (DRUSSO anyone?) and many prominent residency programs (RIC included) have taken DO residents, have DO faculty members, and some - gasp! - even have DO program directors!! (cough cough RIC cough)

The "competitiveness" of PM&R has varied throughout the years with the height of it in the late 80s - 90s after the TEFRA induced surge in rehab facilities. It is still fairly competitive to match in the top residency programs much like it is in any other field. PM&R is considered a "lifestyle" specialty along with fields like anesthesiology, derm, rads, etc. In addition, a certain personality type seems to be attracted to the field. At least the ones I've met are fairly open minded and laid back.

"Competitiveness" is hard to judge - do you look at the match rate? # of residency slots? average board scores? US vs FMGs? # applicants per slot at a given residency? From my experience, the top programs are definitely harder to get into but PDs look at many factors outside of board scores. Good letters of recs preferably from well respected physiatrists will more significantly impact your application than great board scores. My class of 12 has 2 DOs (one was a PT, one did an OMM fellowship), 4 AOAs, 1 Harvard med grad, a MD MBA from Kellog, etc. etc. We have had residents from some of the top med schools in the country and some of the top students of a given med school class. But then an average joe like me can match at RIC also - so what does that mean?? :rolleyes:

Bottomline I agree with the majority on the forum. PM&R is NOT as competitive as Ortho, Rads, Derm. Like any other specialty, the top 20 or so programs are more difficult to get into. The rest are probably not.
 
Spazz said:
Some (mis?)conceptions I'd like you to challenge or support, please--
-PM&R is too focused to allow me to do international medicine relief work
-PM&R doesn't offer enough satisfaction in terms of diversity of problems and pt. population
-PM&R lets you see quicker results than in Family Med
-You're less likely to kill a pt. in PM&R, you're less likely to get sued
-Very few Pain MD's are unsatisfied compared to FP's.
-PMR is rapidly evolving and offers more excitement and potential for compensation as the pt population gets older and the demand increases.

Anyone else in this situation? I've known a few former FP-bound students who made the leap into PMR.

Lots of questions and issues. Any takers on any of these? Thx!
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2. Not as diverse as FP, but you'd be suprised what you can do as a Physiatrist nowadays.
3. Yes and no. Many of your patient's may make zero functional improvement, or improve in small increments over a number of years.
4. Malpractice rates for Physiatrists are generally lower than for other specialties, unless you do interventional procedures.
5. That has to do with the income. Treating chronic pain patients can be very draining, tiring, and at times, aggravating.
6. True, PM&R is rapidly evolving, however, I don't see the average income of Physiatrists going higher than it already is.
 
Spazz, I think its fair to say that almost everyone who views (and especially posts) on this board are relatively happy with PM&R and are active in the field. For a more fair assessment, I'd try to find physiatrists who dont read studentdoctor or even know what it is. There are plenty out there, and their views may differ.

Some other things to consider:
-If you are dead set on the Bay area, you might want to look at how much physiatrists around SF make. Salaries vary widely, and I've heard of some larger cities offering relatively low salaries.

-If money is really the issue, you'd have three more years of earning 45 grand, vs. (i'm guessing) three times that in family practice if you switched fields now. Thats $270,000. I'm just saying.....




Also, somewhat off topic, I'd guessing that ortho and rads program are not anywhere near where we are in terms of FMGs. No, I dont have the evidence to back that up, but I agree that PM&R is not one of the more competetive specialties.
 
I don't think PM&R is that competitive a specialty to match into for the average or even below average medical student. I think you should focus your effort on whether you like the field and if it interests you. This is something that you will have to do for a number of years after you graduate. Being ordinary will very often get you invitations to many top programs for PM&R, being ordinary on the other hand will not get you many ENT invitations.

I actually found it more difficult to get my intern year spot than my PM&R spot, competing with the hordes of radiology, dermatology, and radiation oncology smarty pants out there. Some of my co-interns were quite smashing brilliant!
 
SSdoc33 said:
Also, somewhat off topic, I'd guessing that ortho and rads program are not anywhere near where we are in terms of FMGs. No, I dont have the evidence to back that up, but I agree that PM&R is not one of the more competetive specialties.
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I think FMGs are less now, an attending told me that pm&r simply wasn't the field for as she put it "blue eyed blond haired" American grads a generation ago. And if you look historically radiology used to be quite foreign heavy until maybe a decade and a half ago (same with radiation oncology).
 
I don't know why people here always get offended at the suggestion that PM&R may not be as difficult as Neurosurgery or Dermatology to match into. :rolleyes:

The refrain here is always, "RIC is competetive, therefore PM&R is competetive". But the most competetive residency programs in all specialties are competetive. You'd think smart people at RIC would be able to figure that out. :hardy: Of course there are more PM&R programs than just RIC, and Washington, and *gasp* UMDNJ. And not everybody wants to go to one of these programs either.

If we broke specialties up into "competetive", "average", "not competetive", PM&R would fall comfortably in "not competetive". There are few specialties I can think of that are easier to get into than PM&R. It's got amongst the lowest - if not the lowest - average board scores, it's got a low number of people who fail to match, it's got a high number of DO's and FMG's. Not that DO's and FMG's are inferior doctors, but the cold hard facts are that specialties that are competetive take few to no DO's and FMG's, whereas those that don't have enough interest from U.S. MD grads will take quite a few.

The fact is: if you've got board scores of 200, below average grades, mediocre letters, etc. you could probably match into *a* PM&R program. Maybe not RIC, but probably a program. Try doing the same in Plastic Surgery or Radiation Oncology.

None of these are bad things. They're just facts. To me, the less intense competetion for residency spots in PM&R is a major bonus.
 
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melancholy said:
Sorry, I have to *cough* at the statement that dozens of "non-competitive" programs only fill because of DOs and FMGs.
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Cough all you want, because there's a lot more positions in PM&R than there are American MD graduates applying to it.
 
Like I said,
axm397 said:
Bottomline I agree with the majority on the forum. PM&R is NOT as competitive as Ortho, Rads, Derm. Like any other specialty, the top 20 or so programs are more difficult to get into. The rest are probably not.
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I think many people who are self-motivated enough to find a forum like sdn have their sights set on the more competitive PM&R programs - thus the general "competitive" feel of the field on sdn. If a US MD or DO wanted to do a residency in PM&R and didn't care where he/she went, then that person would have NO problems getting a spot as long as he/she doesn't have HUGE red flags. The anecdotal stories you hear about people "not matching" in PM&R are usually because those people didn't rank the less competitive programs. OR if you really want to go to one geographic location - California, Rochester Minnesota, etc., then it is more difficult.

I never said
llenroc said:
"RIC is competetive, therefore PM&R is competetive". But the most competetive residency programs in all specialties are competetive. You'd think smart people at RIC would be able to figure that out.
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My sister is in psychiatry - is that a "competitive" field? probably not. But she wanted to go to one of the top residencies in the country (Yale, Columbia, Harvard, Penn, Mayo, etc.) so to her, matching in her choice of psych residencies was competitive. That's with her sky high board scores and AOA status. (yeah, she's smarter than me:laugh:)

Hope this clarifies my opinion

oh - and I believe melancholy was "coughing" because you lumped DOs with FMGs.
 
axm397 said:
Like I said,


I think many people who are self-motivated enough to find a forum like sdn have their sights set on the more competitive PM&R programs - thus the general "competitive" feel of the field on sdn. If a US MD or DO wanted to do a residency in PM&R and didn't care where he/she went, then that person would have NO problems getting a spot as long as he/she doesn't have HUGE red flags. The anecdotal stories you hear about people "not matching" in PM&R are usually because those people didn't rank the less competitive programs. OR if you really want to go to one geographic location - California, Rochester Minnesota, etc., then it is more difficult.

I never said My sister is in psychiatry - is that a "competitive" field? probably not. But she wanted to go to one of the top residencies in the country (Yale, Columbia, Harvard, Penn, Mayo, etc.) so to her, matching in her choice of psych residencies was competitive. That's with her sky high board scores and AOA status. (yeah, she's smarter than me:laugh:)

Hope this clarifies my opinion

oh - and I believe melancholy was "coughing" because you lumped DOs with FMGs.
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You cannot lump them. FMGs are MDs and DOs will never be MDs.
 
paindefender said:
You cannot lump them. FMGs are MDs and DOs will never be MDs.
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I think it is harder for an FMG than a DO to get a residency spot. What difference does it make if your physician is a MD or DO as long as they have done a residency and become board certified?
 
I'm an FMG. A regular white guy born and raised in Ohio, but went to med school (after chiro school) at Saba University SOM in the Caribbean. And it was VERY evident along the interview trail last "season" that my FMG status was looked down on. Program directors don't know anything about most foreign schools...they don't know how the education was. So, in a way, you can't blame them for being hesitant about us. Sure, they could look at the step 1 scores, but there's more to med school than basic sciences...clinical experience for instance.
So yes, it's easy to get offended by USMGs saying ignorant and global statements about IMGs, but the best thing to do is to excel within our programs and be open about our IMG status.
Boy, that was preachy eh? :-D
 
SSdoc33 said:
Also, somewhat off topic, I'd guessing that ortho and rads program are not anywhere near where we are in terms of FMGs. No, I dont ...
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Damn, I wish PMR didn't pay out so little.. I don't know about the numbers you all are hoping for but 150k seems low to me for all the hard work it takes to be in the medical field...
 
I don't know about this 150K deal, but it may be true. If you do a fellowship, that number will definitely increase. Most generalized fields start at that level anyway, and then it's up to you to figure out how much you want to work or train to increase that. ... it's all a balance.
 
peduncle- Damn, I wish PMR didn't pay out so little.. I don't know about the numbers you all are hoping for but 150k seems low to me for all the hard work it takes to be in the medical field...


llenroc- Cough all you want, because there's a lot more positions in PM&R than there are American MD graduates applying to it.

SO, while these statement are rather unfounded and pointless not to mention they are no help to OP other than verify people insecurities. Can't poeple all realize that no matter who you are or pretend to be - a MD; a FMG; a DO are actually cut from the same cloth. We are ALL EQUALLY physicians and if there is such disrepect possibly you chose the wrong field. There are plenty of surgical subspecialties that welcome personalities such as this.

Really- let help the OP is his/her decision process.

And BTW llenroc in your experience I suppose you didn't consider the there are alot of DO in PMR because its really suited towards them, the extra musckulosketal training, the manual medicine component and the fact most DO I have met are pretty secure, comfortable with their decision to go the DO-route instead as THEIR choice, not as an alternate as some may have suggested in prior posts. We should shut down this flame war of whose better etc- we all physicans and the only things patients care about is good care. Peace out-
 
Llenroc said:
I don't know why people here always get offended at the suggestion that PM&R may not be as difficult as Neurosurgery or Dermatology to match into. :rolleyes:

The refrain here is always, "RIC is competetive, therefore PM&R is competetive". But the most competetive residency programs in all specialties are competetive. You'd think smart people at RIC would be able to figure that out. :hardy: Of course there are more PM&R programs than just RIC, and Washington, and *gasp* UMDNJ. And not everybody wants to go to one of these programs either.

If we broke specialties up into "competetive", "average", "not competetive", PM&R would fall comfortably in "not competetive". There are few specialties I can think of that are easier to get into than PM&R. It's got amongst the lowest - if not the lowest - average board scores, it's got a low number of people who fail to match, it's got a high number of DO's and FMG's. Not that DO's and FMG's are inferior doctors, but the cold hard facts are that specialties that are competetive take few to no DO's and FMG's, whereas those that don't have enough interest from U.S. MD grads will take quite a few.

The fact is: if you've got board scores of 200, below average grades, mediocre letters, etc. you could probably match into *a* PM&R program. Maybe not RIC, but probably a program. Try doing the same in Plastic Surgery or Radiation Oncology.

None of these are bad things. They're just facts. To me, the less intense competetion for residency spots in PM&R is a major bonus.
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So I'm curious... could you enlighten us on how easy it was for you to match into PM&R? Also, would love to hear where you matched.
 
TUCOMSam said:
So I'm curious... could you enlighten us on how easy it was for you to match into PM&R? Also, would love to hear where you matched.
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I think LIenroc is only a 4th year medical student just learning about PM&R. Some of his facts appear anecdotal but some may true. PM&R has really become selective and moderately competitive. There are people who do not match. That is usually because they rank too few programs and they are narrow-minded on geographic preference. With PM&R, I think that you have to lump US-MD grads with DOs together and not as much FMG with DO. From what the statistics show, there are nearly as many DOs and US MDs in residency programs, including the most competitive programs.
 
Alright I'll take the bait. I hate the DO vs MD posts as much as anybody but have to clear up one thing that some others have hit on already. I am not supercompetetive and agree I couldnt have landed rads/derm/ENT at 95% of programs.
However thhe reason I chose PM&R isnt because I was so sure I could get it despite my inferiority. :laugh:
The musculoskeletal component to the field was perfect for my training as a DO, which had a little more emphasis on this aspect of medicine. Just a thought.
 
i think the relatively small number of spots makes for some erratic matches that you might not see in other matches. when a top program like colorado only has 4 spots and goes down to a dozen or so on their list every year, that can make for a lot of arbitrality depending on what v.a. thinks of ya'. and even medicine which isn't competitive to get a spot has places like brigham+women's hospital that would be a challenging match for even top pm+r candidates. so everything is relative, relatively speaking.
 
My Dad is actually an FMG, and he'll be the first one to tell you that American residency programs (even ones like Pediatrics, which is what he did) do not like to take FMG's and DO's, if they can avoid doing so. The ones that can discriminate, do discriminate, which is why you rarely see FMG's and DO's in Plastic Surgery programs. Maybe the discrimination in PM&R is slightly less (towards DO's at least), but even in this field the top programs are taking in fewer DO's and FMG's than the less competetive ones.

I'm doing a rotation in PM&R right now. When people at work ask me where I'm applying, they look really surprised when I mention the names of non-top 10 programs. "Toledo? What do you want to go there for?" "UNC? Go to Charlotte." "You're not applying to RIC? It's not *that* hard to get into."

I should start a new thread called "Average PM&R programs for average Joes".
 
Llenroc, Thankyou so much for your insight on the DO/MD/FMG differences. Bravo! :thumbdown:
 
You're welcome. :hardy:

:thumbdown:
 
OUsooner said:
Alright I'll take the bait. I hate the DO vs MD posts as much as anybody but have to clear up one thing that some others have hit on already. I am not supercompetetive and agree I couldnt have landed rads/derm/ENT at 95% of programs.
However thhe reason I chose PM&R isnt because I was so sure I could get it despite my inferiority. :laugh:
The musculoskeletal component to the field was perfect for my training as a DO, which had a little more emphasis on this aspect of medicine. Just a thought.
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Although politically incorrect, I would venture a guess that almost no one on this board who had the chance to attend an allopathic school, chose the osteopathic route instead.

D.O and FMG are both routes people travel when they don't have the grades to get into US med schools.

Now, that being said, there are lots of amazing DOs AND FMGs who are incredibly smart and have accomplished great things with their training, but if you are Ph Beta Kappa out of Harvard, you don't chose to go to Guadalajara, and you don't become a DO. You go that route 'cause you HAVE to, not 'cause you WANT to.
 
truthnotBS,
you've said some truth, but also some BS. yes, most everyone would rather go to a US med school rather than a foreign school, but not always my man. and yes, the same generally goes for DO schools too. BUT, that's not b/c US med schools r always better than foreign or DO schools...it's mostly b/c they won't get looked down on by people like you if they go to a US school.
 
dc2md said:
truthnotBS,
you've said some truth, but also some BS. yes, most everyone would rather go to a US med school rather than a foreign school, but not always my man. and yes, the same generally goes for DO schools too. BUT, that's not b/c US med schools r always better than foreign or DO schools...it's mostly b/c they won't get looked down on by people like you if they go to a US school.
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Could you point out where it was in my post that I "looked down on" DO/FMGs?
 
truthnotBS,
it was just the statements saying people only go to DO and foreign schools b/c they don't have the grades to get into US med schools. that certainly wasn't the situation with me and some others i know. other variables come into play when deciding where to go to school. timing, location, money, family.
so, it was you saying that FMGs and DOs are basically not as smart as USMGs that i classify as "looking down on".
i'm not trying to attack you at all...and your statements above also state how you know "amazing DO and FMGs" too, so i know u don't look down on ALL of us.
 
just had to add my 2 cents about do/fmg. there's lots and lots and lots of people who dont get into us md schools on the very first try. and there are a lot of options when that happens. some folks try again next year. some go get a masters. some decide waiting would be a waste of time, and go DO or fmg instead. there's lots of ways to skin a cat (though my college anatomy prof would disagree with that statement). In my extremely biased opinion, DOs & FMGs tend to be much more interesting people. They tend come from varied backgrounds; for some, medicine is their 3rd or 4th career. Some "partied like rock stars" through their 20's, then decided to get a life. It's all good.

To answer the "no one chooses DO over MD", that is not entirely accurate. I did have several classmates that specifically chose DO over MD. One in fact had a choice between Mayo and Kirksville, and chose Kirksville. She has not regretted the decision to this day. But, admittedly, those folks are rare, and yes, most choose DO as a back-up. Again, it's all good. DO's, generally speaking, make great PM&R docs.

On the "is PM&R competitive?" For the most part, if you are willing to go anywhere in the country, to any program, and you REALLY want to do PM&R, you'll most likely find a spot. But, like the rest of this post, that is a very broad-sweeping statement. The year I matriculated (2005) was particularly tough, and was probably on the "moderately competitive" instead of "not competitive" list.

To answer the "PM&R making money" question... I was torn between FP and PM&R myself, and honestly chose it for the profession, and not the money. To me, its not about income, its about wealth. Folks from across all income brackets have various levels of wealth. Look at the pro athletes who end up with no money at the end of their career---and they were making 5-10x what 99% of physicians make in a year. I personally know an FP who is a millionaire, and an orthopedic physician who barely has a dollar to his name, all because of the lifestyles they chose to lead.

<getting off the soapbox now>
 
Some people here are overly sensitive.
 
Llenroc is exposing a fact. No sugar coat.
 
paindefender said:
Llenroc is exposing a fact. No sugar coat.
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Fact: hmmm, fact is defined as1.something that actually exists; reality; truth: 2.something known to exist or to have happened: 3.a truth known by actual experience or observation; 4.something said to be true or supposed to have happened: 5.Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.

all the above posts are contrary to fact; one persons opinion or a group of insecure med students still grasping onto the pre-med fight of who is superior is rediculous and does absolutely nothing for proving yourself. What is does do is demonstrate that these few people who are claims of superiority are obviously living under a rock.

What purpose does this argument serve? If you have an intelligent answer that leads me to believe that you are helping someone --- the original poster wanted help in deciding FP or PMR if you call ---- then let's hear it.

Otherwise, if you exist by putting down others for building your own self esteem, please don't even bother posting as its highly non-productive from the standpoint of why this forum exists. A little respect and professionalism go a long way, in case you haven't already realized that on your clerkships.:) Hatred only makes you old and crotchety, come out from under that rock and live life like everyone else.

My mom used to say if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all! I appears many have not had a similar upbringing.
 
olafa said:
My mom used to say if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all!
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My mama used to say alligators is so ornery b/c they got all them teeth and no toothbrush. :laugh:
 
all the above posts are contrary to fact; one persons opinion or a group of insecure med students still grasping onto the pre-med fight of who is superior is rediculous and does absolutely nothing for proving yourself. What is does do is demonstrate that these few people who are claims of superiority are obviously living under a rock.
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Whose said anything about superior? I think you need to read more carefully what has been stated.

Anyway, I'm through with this thread. Whoever wants can argue about DO vs. MD, which is not something I care about in the first place.
 
Llenroc said:
Whose said anything about superior? I think you need to read more carefully what has been stated.

Anyway, I'm through with this thread. Whoever wants can argue about DO vs. MD, which is not something I care about in the first place.
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-while the word superior may have never been used, many of the above post have definately portrayed that attitude. I got the feeling you wanted FMG's and DO wear a special arm band, reminiscent of hilter third riecht. Anyhow,I glad your done with your do/md venting or what ever you want to call it - we can all be friends, don't you know!

Yeah I heard that about alligators... I amsure they got some sticky breath and a mean layer of tartar, but hey I would want to get too close to check it out for myself, might be their next meal :eek:
 
Superior MCATs and personal profiles?
 
Please consider closing this thread. It is no longer addressing the question posed. Does anyone care to second this?
 
agreed - OP can start a new thread should he/she want more opinion

The FMG vs DO vs USMD debate is getting old and it's really not helping anyone.
 
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